Swashbucklers too overpowered

AuthorMessage
Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
anecorbie on Sep 24, 2015 wrote:
Oh, sorry there, Robert. But now you've had just a little taste of what I'm going through.
"Swashbuckler is easy."
"Swashbuckler doesn't need much strategy"
"Nerf Hide, nerf poison, nerf, nerf nerf."
No, swashbucklers don't need much strategy at all. Thats why the first champion of the fall season is swashbuckler and there are around 20 or so summer swashbuckler champions when there are like 5 buccaneer champions. Those are some interesting statistics considering "buccaneer is better then swashbuckler" right?

Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
826
anecorbie on Sep 24, 2015 wrote:
Oh, sorry there, Robert. But now you've had just a little taste of what I'm going through.
"Swashbuckler is easy."
"Swashbuckler doesn't need much strategy"
"Nerf Hide, nerf poison, nerf, nerf nerf."
you forget privateers had it much worse before, and our nerf was also much worse, nerfing our will buffs, our zeal, and espirit. you are now getting a little taste of what I went through

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9182
Masonpeev on Sep 24, 2015 wrote:
No, swashbucklers don't need much strategy at all. Thats why the first champion of the fall season is swashbuckler and there are around 20 or so summer swashbuckler champions when there are like 5 buccaneer champions. Those are some interesting statistics considering "buccaneer is better then swashbuckler" right?
Swashbucklers do use plenty strategy, considering all the different kinds of attacks from other classes that include debuffs ( where's ours? ) and shields ( where's ours? ) Buffs ( again, where's ours? )
If there's a majority of swashbucklers to other classes, this may reflect that there are more swashbucklers in the game or ( and please don't think I'm including you or any other poster ) those classes who lose to a swashbuckler don't have the strategy to win.
When will the PVP community realize that my class does need strategy ( and plenty of it ) to win? Where's our respect as a viable playable class, why so much hating? And from your posts here and in other threads, you Masonpeev, are among the worst offenders.

Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
382
anecorbie on Sep 24, 2015 wrote:
Swashbucklers do use plenty strategy, considering all the different kinds of attacks from other classes that include debuffs ( where's ours? ) and shields ( where's ours? ) Buffs ( again, where's ours? )
If there's a majority of swashbucklers to other classes, this may reflect that there are more swashbucklers in the game or ( and please don't think I'm including you or any other poster ) those classes who lose to a swashbuckler don't have the strategy to win.
When will the PVP community realize that my class does need strategy ( and plenty of it ) to win? Where's our respect as a viable playable class, why so much hating? And from your posts here and in other threads, you Masonpeev, are among the worst offenders.
So, you have any strategy that doesnt use fog?

Gunner's Mate
Dec 16, 2009
212
Masonpeev on Sep 24, 2015 wrote:
No, swashbucklers don't need much strategy at all. Thats why the first champion of the fall season is swashbuckler and there are around 20 or so summer swashbuckler champions when there are like 5 buccaneer champions. Those are some interesting statistics considering "buccaneer is better then swashbuckler" right?
Hmm here are some more interesting statistics. Lets consider that
a)Swashbuckler is the most popular class
b)Most people refuse to partake of the many counters to fog.

and those numbers start to make a whole lot more sense.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9182
zuto4011a on Sep 24, 2015 wrote:
you forget privateers had it much worse before, and our nerf was also much worse, nerfing our will buffs, our zeal, and espirit. you are now getting a little taste of what I went through
And even you agreed those powers were OP and needed a nerf.

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
anecorbie on Sep 24, 2015 wrote:
Swashbucklers do use plenty strategy, considering all the different kinds of attacks from other classes that include debuffs ( where's ours? ) and shields ( where's ours? ) Buffs ( again, where's ours? )
If there's a majority of swashbucklers to other classes, this may reflect that there are more swashbucklers in the game or ( and please don't think I'm including you or any other poster ) those classes who lose to a swashbuckler don't have the strategy to win.
When will the PVP community realize that my class does need strategy ( and plenty of it ) to win? Where's our respect as a viable playable class, why so much hating? And from your posts here and in other threads, you Masonpeev, are among the worst offenders.
Of course a swashbuckler needs SOME strategy but its not like the way you describe it lol. Many swashbucklers carry 3 forts get 1 shield from privy and one from buck AND can have one from pet so shields are definitely not an issue. Also for your buffs you have black fog and or critical buffs. You're still ignoring the fact that swashbuckler is like literally the only class in the arena. Go into the brawlin' hall realm avery at around anywhere after school and you'll see that the majority of the people there are swashbuckler champions. Even Duncan (a witchdoctor champion friend of mine) started doing swashbuckler pvp and was amazed at how easy it was

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9182
Masonpeev on Sep 25, 2015 wrote:
Of course a swashbuckler needs SOME strategy but its not like the way you describe it lol. Many swashbucklers carry 3 forts get 1 shield from privy and one from buck AND can have one from pet so shields are definitely not an issue. Also for your buffs you have black fog and or critical buffs. You're still ignoring the fact that swashbuckler is like literally the only class in the arena. Go into the brawlin' hall realm avery at around anywhere after school and you'll see that the majority of the people there are swashbuckler champions. Even Duncan (a witchdoctor champion friend of mine) started doing swashbuckler pvp and was amazed at how easy it was
Listen, I'm tired of this circular argument. We don't get trained shields, our ONE TEAM buff disappears when used - my buffs are personal. and I don't get ANY debuffs ( unlike you ). If I had my way, poison would add a debuff to either strength or accuracy.
That there are more SBs just proves my point - more players choose SB and/or most PVP players are lacking in strategy to defeat them.
If you wish to continue with this circular argument; just informing you that I won't reply.

Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
826
anecorbie on Sep 24, 2015 wrote:
And even you agreed those powers were OP and needed a nerf.
no no i didnt until months AFTER it was nerfed

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
zuto4011a on Sep 25, 2015 wrote:
no no i didnt until months AFTER it was nerfed
Privy is now among the top classes but being a top class doesn't necessarily mean being easy and brainless to play. Privateer takes skill and although it CAN be more powerful then buckler (Sometimes) it requires intricate planning and positioning

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
anecorbie on Sep 25, 2015 wrote:
Listen, I'm tired of this circular argument. We don't get trained shields, our ONE TEAM buff disappears when used - my buffs are personal. and I don't get ANY debuffs ( unlike you ). If I had my way, poison would add a debuff to either strength or accuracy.
That there are more SBs just proves my point - more players choose SB and/or most PVP players are lacking in strategy to defeat them.
If you wish to continue with this circular argument; just informing you that I won't reply.
You do too get a buff! One of the strongest. What do you think shadow dance is? And it causes more critical heals, hits, and poisons than anything else! Have you seen how many times flan critical's regardless of will/strength/resist stats. Shadow dance BYPASSES the normal critical system and boosts it directly.

Also have you ever considered that people choose bucklers because they are the most powerful? And/or easy to win with? If they were as weak as you seem to think no one would choose them. The fact that there are more swashbuckler's and buckler champions actually proves OUR point...that they are over powered...which is why everyone likes them :D Its like an upward spiral. The more powerful they remain causes more people to like them which increases the number of bucklers champions again causing the creation of more buckers and thus buckler champions...and on and on.

And you said it yourself. The fact that most PvP players lack strategy to beat them...is because that level of strategy is very difficult and its STILL not guaranteed! The mere fact that a noob buckler with NO semblance of strategy can still win most of his/her matches...is proof that the school is skewed toward being over powered. The fact everyone else has to be sharp as a tack just to compete with bucklers is evidence that the school needs a few nerfs.

Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
382
Thomas Sunhammer on Sep 26, 2015 wrote:
You do too get a buff! One of the strongest. What do you think shadow dance is? And it causes more critical heals, hits, and poisons than anything else! Have you seen how many times flan critical's regardless of will/strength/resist stats. Shadow dance BYPASSES the normal critical system and boosts it directly.

Also have you ever considered that people choose bucklers because they are the most powerful? And/or easy to win with? If they were as weak as you seem to think no one would choose them. The fact that there are more swashbuckler's and buckler champions actually proves OUR point...that they are over powered...which is why everyone likes them :D Its like an upward spiral. The more powerful they remain causes more people to like them which increases the number of bucklers champions again causing the creation of more buckers and thus buckler champions...and on and on.

And you said it yourself. The fact that most PvP players lack strategy to beat them...is because that level of strategy is very difficult and its STILL not guaranteed! The mere fact that a noob buckler with NO semblance of strategy can still win most of his/her matches...is proof that the school is skewed toward being over powered. The fact everyone else has to be sharp as a tack just to compete with bucklers is evidence that the school needs a few nerfs.
I'm privy, and my setup is geared toward fighting swash... sure I can lose vs any other class, but seeing 9 out of 10 people is swash, I dont need to setup for any other class really.

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Thomas Sunhammer on Sep 26, 2015 wrote:
You do too get a buff! One of the strongest. What do you think shadow dance is? And it causes more critical heals, hits, and poisons than anything else! Have you seen how many times flan critical's regardless of will/strength/resist stats. Shadow dance BYPASSES the normal critical system and boosts it directly.

Also have you ever considered that people choose bucklers because they are the most powerful? And/or easy to win with? If they were as weak as you seem to think no one would choose them. The fact that there are more swashbuckler's and buckler champions actually proves OUR point...that they are over powered...which is why everyone likes them :D Its like an upward spiral. The more powerful they remain causes more people to like them which increases the number of bucklers champions again causing the creation of more buckers and thus buckler champions...and on and on.

And you said it yourself. The fact that most PvP players lack strategy to beat them...is because that level of strategy is very difficult and its STILL not guaranteed! The mere fact that a noob buckler with NO semblance of strategy can still win most of his/her matches...is proof that the school is skewed toward being over powered. The fact everyone else has to be sharp as a tack just to compete with bucklers is evidence that the school needs a few nerfs.
Agreed. I don't know if I'm repeating myself again or not but a friend of mine who was a witchdoctor champion was a complete noob at swashbuckler and he tried doing 1v1 there, what he found was shocking. Most people fleed the match after he applied the first hit, he was able to win against people with barely any strategy and was amazed as to how easy it was to play swashbuckler. Its still possible to beat swashbuckler no doubt but there's a lot of critical heals and hits due to your critical "buff" which you think isn't a buff. And even if its the most popular class it shouldn't have been in 1st place with 14 or so more champions then 2d place as of how many champions there were in game. Oh by the way, right now there are approximately 4 swashbuckler champions 1 musketeer and 1 buccaneer as of the fall season.

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Silver Angel on Sep 27, 2015 wrote:
I'm privy, and my setup is geared toward fighting swash... sure I can lose vs any other class, but seeing 9 out of 10 people is swash, I dont need to setup for any other class really.
That should put up some concern, 9/10 people being swash

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9182
Thomas Sunhammer on Sep 26, 2015 wrote:
You do too get a buff! One of the strongest. What do you think shadow dance is? And it causes more critical heals, hits, and poisons than anything else! Have you seen how many times flan critical's regardless of will/strength/resist stats. Shadow dance BYPASSES the normal critical system and boosts it directly.

Also have you ever considered that people choose bucklers because they are the most powerful? And/or easy to win with? If they were as weak as you seem to think no one would choose them. The fact that there are more swashbuckler's and buckler champions actually proves OUR point...that they are over powered...which is why everyone likes them :D Its like an upward spiral. The more powerful they remain causes more people to like them which increases the number of bucklers champions again causing the creation of more buckers and thus buckler champions...and on and on.

And you said it yourself. The fact that most PvP players lack strategy to beat them...is because that level of strategy is very difficult and its STILL not guaranteed! The mere fact that a noob buckler with NO semblance of strategy can still win most of his/her matches...is proof that the school is skewed toward being over powered. The fact everyone else has to be sharp as a tack just to compete with bucklers is evidence that the school needs a few nerfs.
It seems you're the one not reading my post thoroughly; I just said "My buffs are personal." My team buff, my one, sole team buff goes away when used - what other class has that handicap? Of course there are time limits, all the other buffs have time limits.
I have loved this class from the beginning, even with the broken hide; this didn't discourage me from completing the game twice to max on a swashbuckler.
Now some gits are claiming that MY class, at which I have worked, and trained and reset and refined and farmed for ages is soooooo flippin' easy a moron could win!!!!!!!!!
So I say go and do it, prove me wrong make a buckler go into PVP at any level and get to champion!

Gunner's Mate
Dec 16, 2009
212
Thomas Sunhammer on Sep 26, 2015 wrote:
You do too get a buff! One of the strongest. What do you think shadow dance is? And it causes more critical heals, hits, and poisons than anything else! Have you seen how many times flan critical's regardless of will/strength/resist stats. Shadow dance BYPASSES the normal critical system and boosts it directly.

Also have you ever considered that people choose bucklers because they are the most powerful? And/or easy to win with? If they were as weak as you seem to think no one would choose them. The fact that there are more swashbuckler's and buckler champions actually proves OUR point...that they are over powered...which is why everyone likes them :D Its like an upward spiral. The more powerful they remain causes more people to like them which increases the number of bucklers champions again causing the creation of more buckers and thus buckler champions...and on and on.

And you said it yourself. The fact that most PvP players lack strategy to beat them...is because that level of strategy is very difficult and its STILL not guaranteed! The mere fact that a noob buckler with NO semblance of strategy can still win most of his/her matches...is proof that the school is skewed toward being over powered. The fact everyone else has to be sharp as a tack just to compete with bucklers is evidence that the school needs a few nerfs.
Shadowdance is actually weaker than most stat buffs which improve the critical rating over 15%.

More people chose bucklers long before PvP was released. In the early game bucklers were the weakest class along with bucanneers in PvP so the fact that there are more bucklers almost certainly has nothing to do with PvP.

Finally-I would like to see any noob buckler who has made it past gladiator....

Gunner's Mate
Dec 16, 2009
212
Masonpeev on Sep 28, 2015 wrote:
Agreed. I don't know if I'm repeating myself again or not but a friend of mine who was a witchdoctor champion was a complete noob at swashbuckler and he tried doing 1v1 there, what he found was shocking. Most people fleed the match after he applied the first hit, he was able to win against people with barely any strategy and was amazed as to how easy it was to play swashbuckler. Its still possible to beat swashbuckler no doubt but there's a lot of critical heals and hits due to your critical "buff" which you think isn't a buff. And even if its the most popular class it shouldn't have been in 1st place with 14 or so more champions then 2d place as of how many champions there were in game. Oh by the way, right now there are approximately 4 swashbuckler champions 1 musketeer and 1 buccaneer as of the fall season.
Of course he did. If he was a witchdoctor champion he was a skilled player as literally the lowest tier school. Switching to any of the higher tiers would be a lot easier. If he had switched to a buccaneer he would have had very similar results.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
anecorbie on Sep 28, 2015 wrote:
It seems you're the one not reading my post thoroughly; I just said "My buffs are personal." My team buff, my one, sole team buff goes away when used - what other class has that handicap? Of course there are time limits, all the other buffs have time limits.
I have loved this class from the beginning, even with the broken hide; this didn't discourage me from completing the game twice to max on a swashbuckler.
Now some gits are claiming that MY class, at which I have worked, and trained and reset and refined and farmed for ages is soooooo flippin' easy a moron could win!!!!!!!!!
So I say go and do it, prove me wrong make a buckler go into PVP at any level and get to champion!
Handicap? You make it seem like bucklers are helpless. You do realize your buff while being a solo one has GREATER benefits than the group one right? Its not a handicap its a trade off. No its not the same but that doesn't mean its worse...just different. To be honest as the match gets later and later into the fight I would rather have the personal localized benefits. Cause as I loose companions the global ones arent really that good any more. In which case your "handicap" as you call it...actually turns out to be a huge bonus! You can now buff up far better than those with global benefits can.

So your one global one...is really all you need. To get through the black fog surge. From there the fight gets more drawn out and solo ones are better.

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
anecorbie on Sep 28, 2015 wrote:
It seems you're the one not reading my post thoroughly; I just said "My buffs are personal." My team buff, my one, sole team buff goes away when used - what other class has that handicap? Of course there are time limits, all the other buffs have time limits.
I have loved this class from the beginning, even with the broken hide; this didn't discourage me from completing the game twice to max on a swashbuckler.
Now some gits are claiming that MY class, at which I have worked, and trained and reset and refined and farmed for ages is soooooo flippin' easy a moron could win!!!!!!!!!
So I say go and do it, prove me wrong make a buckler go into PVP at any level and get to champion!
Well of course learning the basics takes some time and no there's a difference between a moron and an expert. You need an expert to get to champion on any other class. In swashbuckler's case you can be just "good" and still get to champion and considering how easy it is I might actually try getting my lvl 32 swashbuckler to a certain level and get to champion, pretty basic and straight forward strategy

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Eric Stormbringer on Sep 29, 2015 wrote:
Shadowdance is actually weaker than most stat buffs which improve the critical rating over 15%.

More people chose bucklers long before PvP was released. In the early game bucklers were the weakest class along with bucanneers in PvP so the fact that there are more bucklers almost certainly has nothing to do with PvP.

Finally-I would like to see any noob buckler who has made it past gladiator....
We're not talking about completely brainless, we just mean slightly good with maybe 2 forts or so, thats all it takes and I don't know why swashbuckler was popular from the beginning but it sure is WAY more popular in PvP

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Eric Stormbringer on Sep 29, 2015 wrote:
Of course he did. If he was a witchdoctor champion he was a skilled player as literally the lowest tier school. Switching to any of the higher tiers would be a lot easier. If he had switched to a buccaneer he would have had very similar results.
His character had bad gear, he wasn't very experienced with swashbuckler. Its not that simple

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Thomas Sunhammer on Sep 29, 2015 wrote:
Handicap? You make it seem like bucklers are helpless. You do realize your buff while being a solo one has GREATER benefits than the group one right? Its not a handicap its a trade off. No its not the same but that doesn't mean its worse...just different. To be honest as the match gets later and later into the fight I would rather have the personal localized benefits. Cause as I loose companions the global ones arent really that good any more. In which case your "handicap" as you call it...actually turns out to be a huge bonus! You can now buff up far better than those with global benefits can.

So your one global one...is really all you need. To get through the black fog surge. From there the fight gets more drawn out and solo ones are better.
Honestly thats the entire point, once you have killed maybe one or two companions the fight is more one on one and your "handicapped" "helpless" class which you keep defending like its a hurt little dog is much more effective in 1 on 1 when they can critical heals in hide, critical poisons and do 300 per run. And fog although not op now is by far probably the most effective buff

Gunner's Mate
Dec 16, 2009
212
Masonpeev on Sep 29, 2015 wrote:
Honestly thats the entire point, once you have killed maybe one or two companions the fight is more one on one and your "handicapped" "helpless" class which you keep defending like its a hurt little dog is much more effective in 1 on 1 when they can critical heals in hide, critical poisons and do 300 per run. And fog although not op now is by far probably the most effective buff
Yes swash is more effective in 1v1 scenarios. It is designed as the individual school. This is not an issue as far as I'm aware.

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Eric Stormbringer on Sep 29, 2015 wrote:
Yes swash is more effective in 1v1 scenarios. It is designed as the individual school. This is not an issue as far as I'm aware.
Well what other scenarios are there? its only 1v1 and battle royale xD

Gunner's Mate
Dec 16, 2009
212
Masonpeev on Sep 29, 2015 wrote:
Well what other scenarios are there? its only 1v1 and battle royale xD
1v1 as in unit vs unit-not type of pvp