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Swashbucklers too overpowered

AuthorMessage
Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Koi the Fish on Jul 20, 2015 wrote:
I have said this before and I will say it again. I think Black fog should just be the double damage, it should not be hidden targets, it could also be flip-flopped to be hidden but not double damaged. I feel that is fair I do have a buckler and it is that easy buff buff buff hit and win.
That could work too but see what many have wanted is 1.5x 5 rounds 2.0x 3 rounds or 1.5x 3 rounds

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
CaptainBlackWolfBo... on Jul 21, 2015 wrote:
They should change it back to the way it was, hidden ending if you attack or get damaged.
Imo poisons should activate the fog to end or purge should remove the fog, or both

Lieutenant
Oct 11, 2012
108
Its not that simple, if you make Black Fog weaker than a level 12 power (Walk in Darkness), then there is literally no point in it. Just because you are unhappy with the power in PvP doesn't mean you have to diminish it for people like me who don't PvP often. I get other schools are unhappy with this, but every school has their own specialty. Swashbucklers are meant to be sneaky, you just have to find a way around this. I am not being biased, I have other pirates with different schools, such as Witchdoctor. I know there are strategies that can counter Black Fog, you pirates just need to find it. I don't want to join in the ranting so I'll stop here.

Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
826
Spiral Cowboy on Jul 20, 2015 wrote:
So only the people at the top should be listened to? What about the other 49,999,997 players? Yes you guys compete at a much higher level, but if you ask the average player, Black Fog is not the issue you make it out to be. So the game should be changed because the minority thinks so? There may be future updates that would nullify this advantage you perceive, so what then? Would they go back and restore Fog if another class suddenly has the advantage? Not likely. In the hands of a pro, yes Black Fog can be devastating, but even then there is no guarantee that the hidden units will be able to get to the units they need to. There are lots of game changing powers out there. My whole team being taken down to half health by a super Mojo Storm before I can even move is a good example. A Musketeer and Chantal being able to cause thousands in damage with Sniper shots before my team can shield is another. Bucklers often have to take 2 rounds of ranged attacks before we can reach our targets. Being down to a third health by the time you reach your target is hard to overcome for most. Then there is still the question...what if Fog doesn't come up? I have gone through entire battles without it coming up, or coming up when it's too late. Tell me how a Buckler is supposed to beat a ranged unit when Fog doesn't come up. Either we just charge in, or we wait out the bombs and traps. Either way we have to weather the ranged and AoE attacks as we try to advance. When a Musket hides in the corner with a shielded Ratbeard on the point, surrounded by Knockback bombs and traps...how are we supposed to get in? The double damage from Fog makes up for all the damage we have to take while we advance on our opponents. I have a great deal of respect for those of you who are so dedicated to pvp and have accomplished so much, but the rest of the players...who also happen to be in the majority...should have a say too.
lets use the american voting system, the electoral college votes on the president, the electors usually vote on what they're state says however in the past some electers have gone against this, the founding fathers made it this way because the minority was smarter and better, if thats the case in p101 which it is then yes the minority should be listened to, btw that 50m was also including wiz, this game has 10m maybe, that super mojo was completely lucked based and rarely happens, the bad idea of ki for the complete freeze first turn also assisted that, again with the musket its simply the map, there used to be cover but now there isnt, until cover maps are made there isnt a way to stop this, that isnt a power problem its a map problem, the whole not showing thing is kinda dumb, ki really should make it so your first power always appears first turn, it does get truly annoying when its your last first page power to show, for muskets use a sacrifice, have another buckler take the damage then have your team run in through the gap, but without cover this is a new problem, with cover you could hide behind a pillar to avoid damage while waiting out bombs, bombs used to be skillfulish, requiring the best bomb to only be used once its too costly to not charge such as having 2 whales might, 1 levy, 1 fort, and a krakens coil on, a for would be forced to charge then or run the risk of being horribly outmatched with buffs later, my solution for your witch and musket problem is to have the old map thrown into the map rotation, after all it is the map that many got used too and overall the most balanced map and most dynamic, you are correct in saying that the majority should have a voice, but if this was an opera and that voice wasnt the strongest or best would that voice be the lead voice?

Bosun
Apr 19, 2012
331
Alex Hawkins on Jul 21, 2015 wrote:
Honestly, not sure what else I can say to convince you otherwise. I have stated most of my arguments and every day more people are coming to the boards complaining about the same thing, Black Fog is overpowered. Take a look at the test section and it is not just me anymore saying this, new people are too.

Yes, you had a bad duel there, but as you said yourself it all started with a critical (a super at that!) that allowed your opponent such a big edge. That doesn't happen every duel. You can shield that first turn you couldn't fog, you spread your companions out the next turn so the Witch can't aoe you, or if you simply get fog the Witchdoctor has no choice but to start shielding himself or risk getting one shot by your companions.

Losing one duel to one strategy doesn't make it OP. Unless your Witch friend magically had super critical mojo storms ready every game, that won't work for him consistently.

With Black Fog, is not just a single duel that was loss. Countless players have felt the hopelessness of facing a Swashbuckler with fog. It is both the perfect defensive and offensive tool all in one. You can shield, you can spread out, you can hide, yet you will still lose multiple units when the Swashbuckler decides to unleash his power.

Another Swashbuckler, like yourself, can easily avoid this with their own Black Fog. But what about the Privateers? Or the Buccaneers? Or the Witchdoctors? Even Musketeers, you can place your bombs but they are very easy to walk around since you only get one knockback bombs. Is every other class just supposed to sit there and take a beating when ranked comes out? Because that is what it feels like when an opponent Swashbuckler uses Black Fog.

My Swashbuckler is currently ranked at Gladiator in the test realm and undefeated. I rarely even lose a companion in my matches against non-Swashbucklers. He would be higher if I wasn't ranking all my other classes too. It is too easy to win with the class.
Ok...fine. I see so many complaining about it that I guess a fix is in order. But anything beyond the suggested 3 round or 1.5 damage would ruin the class and they would sink back down to the bottom where they were before hidden got fixed and Black Fog became available. I have been playing this game since it began, but gave up on pvp before the hidden fix because it was very difficult to win with a Buckler unless you had a flawless performance and even then it was impossible to beat Privateers. I remember when the level cap was 50 and all you saw in the game were Privateers. I would say the best fix would be the 3 round limitation. I would be very disappointed with the 1.5 damage fix. Bucklers need that big hit to keep up with the other classes buffing, shielding, AoE attacks and the Bucks that critical nonstop. I heard someone mention that Bucklers could rely on their dodge and that's not true. No matter how high your dodge is, you can't dodge a critical. With the Buckler class's lack of armor, a couple of good criticals is all it takes to end the match for them.

Ensign
May 19, 2012
18
Well, all this discussion looks to me as one whining to another who has better car and how often one wins the race.
Mine is faster on straight line, but yours is better in corners. And so on.
Not my fault you bought that car.
Learn to play with your class. Each have their pros and cons, each are good and bad in some aspects of fighting.
Swashbuckler can't do much against ranged units when not hidden, specially in PvP.
It was said so many times here already, really no point in going over it again.
And when you play in group with Swashbuckler i bet that hidden comes so good and handy.

Even melee units with high armor have advantage, regardles on Buckler strong attacks. Buck can hit hard too.
Shall we lower Buck's armor then? Or increase damage Buck gets when doing frenzy??!
How's that souds? Not so good, eh Buccaneers?!

We could find something for each class what's "OP" and "should be" dealt with.
I bet there are many players that have a solution for Buckler hidden, and making no problem out of it.
Besides, meaning of competition is to overcome opponents advantage. Is it not?
Not to whine about his char being faster or stronger. Or hidden.

Enjoy the game my fellow pirates, dont fight over it.

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
TechnomagePvP on Jul 20, 2015 wrote:
Almost impossible to have consistent results. Almost a year since the Tower update and you think we haven't tried? The facts stay the same that you can't beat Fog at a consistent rate, the truth is the only way was to double fort every other companion and hide with your pirate but the chances of being able to do that is slim you almost always lose at least 2 companions, Purge doesn't remove hidden which makes it a whole lot worse. And the truth is that's all you have to do, run in curse, kill companions to make it a 4v1. It's too OP and even me, Alex, and Midnight Pirate who may I add are the 3 highest ranks in test realm right now? I'm just saying this, not rocket scientest but the people who are at the top should be listened to mostly on subjects we've proven to be OP already on multiple occassions, how something is balanced is when you can create a consistent strategy that performed against the other so called "OP" strategy and beat it on a 50/50 or higher percentage if it doesn't then it isn't consistent, but to be able to still not even hit a strategy like that for an entire year? It's either Black Fog is broken or the developers have a hidden scent epic item hidden in the game they're giggling about in the office.
We need more players like you in the game, where even if something is op in their specific class they will still admit it and not deny it because they may lose something from it, for example, if something was overpowered for buccaneer I wouldnt be happy because then its not fair for other players and pvp isnt as fun anymore

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
ElijahWaterVault on Jul 22, 2015 wrote:
Its not that simple, if you make Black Fog weaker than a level 12 power (Walk in Darkness), then there is literally no point in it. Just because you are unhappy with the power in PvP doesn't mean you have to diminish it for people like me who don't PvP often. I get other schools are unhappy with this, but every school has their own specialty. Swashbucklers are meant to be sneaky, you just have to find a way around this. I am not being biased, I have other pirates with different schools, such as Witchdoctor. I know there are strategies that can counter Black Fog, you pirates just need to find it. I don't want to join in the ranting so I'll stop here.
Ya but buccaneers lost what was special for them, shield stacking, and its not weaker, everyone around u goes into hidden

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
zuto4011a on Jul 22, 2015 wrote:
lets use the american voting system, the electoral college votes on the president, the electors usually vote on what they're state says however in the past some electers have gone against this, the founding fathers made it this way because the minority was smarter and better, if thats the case in p101 which it is then yes the minority should be listened to, btw that 50m was also including wiz, this game has 10m maybe, that super mojo was completely lucked based and rarely happens, the bad idea of ki for the complete freeze first turn also assisted that, again with the musket its simply the map, there used to be cover but now there isnt, until cover maps are made there isnt a way to stop this, that isnt a power problem its a map problem, the whole not showing thing is kinda dumb, ki really should make it so your first power always appears first turn, it does get truly annoying when its your last first page power to show, for muskets use a sacrifice, have another buckler take the damage then have your team run in through the gap, but without cover this is a new problem, with cover you could hide behind a pillar to avoid damage while waiting out bombs, bombs used to be skillfulish, requiring the best bomb to only be used once its too costly to not charge such as having 2 whales might, 1 levy, 1 fort, and a krakens coil on, a for would be forced to charge then or run the risk of being horribly outmatched with buffs later, my solution for your witch and musket problem is to have the old map thrown into the map rotation, after all it is the map that many got used too and overall the most balanced map and most dynamic, you are correct in saying that the majority should have a voice, but if this was an opera and that voice wasnt the strongest or best would that voice be the lead voice?
The problem with having 1 power showing up first is the fact that swashbucklers will use fog 99.99999999999999% of the time

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
EllieTheSwash on Jul 23, 2015 wrote:
Well, all this discussion looks to me as one whining to another who has better car and how often one wins the race.
Mine is faster on straight line, but yours is better in corners. And so on.
Not my fault you bought that car.
Learn to play with your class. Each have their pros and cons, each are good and bad in some aspects of fighting.
Swashbuckler can't do much against ranged units when not hidden, specially in PvP.
It was said so many times here already, really no point in going over it again.
And when you play in group with Swashbuckler i bet that hidden comes so good and handy.

Even melee units with high armor have advantage, regardles on Buckler strong attacks. Buck can hit hard too.
Shall we lower Buck's armor then? Or increase damage Buck gets when doing frenzy??!
How's that souds? Not so good, eh Buccaneers?!

We could find something for each class what's "OP" and "should be" dealt with.
I bet there are many players that have a solution for Buckler hidden, and making no problem out of it.
Besides, meaning of competition is to overcome opponents advantage. Is it not?
Not to whine about his char being faster or stronger. Or hidden.

Enjoy the game my fellow pirates, dont fight over it.
Ya if you made buck any weaker the "whining" would only increase, you think that this is some happy little kitty fight over who is better, I totally get your point about overcoming challenges but this is just insane, if they let us shield stack then we could overcome this, but how do we do this if the max we can have on us is 50% shield, which is nothing compared to 100% damage with 4 people attacking you, and you can't play in a group because its only 1v1 for ranked pvp

Ensign
May 19, 2012
18
Masonpeev on Jul 23, 2015 wrote:
Ya if you made buck any weaker the "whining" would only increase, you think that this is some happy little kitty fight over who is better, I totally get your point about overcoming challenges but this is just insane, if they let us shield stack then we could overcome this, but how do we do this if the max we can have on us is 50% shield, which is nothing compared to 100% damage with 4 people attacking you, and you can't play in a group because its only 1v1 for ranked pvp
I think this is exactly some happy little kitty fight over who is better.
Too many people getting it too seriously. After all, this is a game people should enjoy playing, not arguing over. To me, that arguing part doesn't make sense.

OK, so how is this for a thought:
-Any shield you stack (or not) stays after your Buck being hit. (fact)
-Bucklers fog doesn't. So Buckler returns to normal hit strenght - exposed to all what Buck has to deliver to him.
-But Buck retains 50% damage reduction (or whatever shield you have on).
How's that for fair?
Should we change that shield be removed too after being hit (it shatters under high power Buckler hit)?
Nah, that wouldn't be fair. I'm just kidding with you. Little oil on fire.

What ever they change on any character, i know i will learn to adapt it and still enjoy the game as i do now.
And my friends will do so too.

Love you all! (and these happy little kitty fights too)

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2743
I posted this in another thread as a possible idea for 'tweaking' Black Flag...the only Power that seems to be causing quite a stir in Ranked PvP and PvP in general.

Would something like this help, or hurt SB's too much or even be doable w/in the programming?

BF- Remains 5 turn power/buff but becomes a Tiered Buff, meaning:

Turn 1- adjacent units receive x2 damage buff. Every round that passes damage bonus is scaled back, as follows:
Turn 2- x1.8 dmg
Turn 3- x1.6 dmg
Turn 4- x1.4 dmg
Turn 5- x1.2 dmg

With something like this, the Swash still has x2 dmg potential in 1st turn, but has to weigh whether or not to keep units hidden while buffing, or risk losing a bit of 'extra' damage as turns pass by. The crew can still hit hard after casting BF, but more strategy will come into play as they determine when is the right time to come out of hidden to attack. It remains a 5 turn crew-hide, so buffing can go on for 2, 3, or 4 turns but at a risk of losing 'oomph'. Even if waiting until the last turn of hide to attack, crew members will still receive a slight dmg increase. For other classes, by turn 4 they will not take on as much punishment, but will still get hit hard in those 1st, 3 turns.

It's not a banning of BF, not an all out nerf, Swashies still get to be potent & other classes have a better of chance of not receiving 3-4 rounds of buffing, followed by x2 damage. Since most crew buffs are less potent than the single target buff, Black Fog would also fall in line...once the 1st turn is up.

It may bring a bit more strategy to using BF & also make it slightly less 'OP' to other classes & in PvE...maybe? But it would still remain quite potent for PvE.

Again, I don't PvP (yet) and don't have a maxed Buckler, so I this may not work or may not be a good idea at all. But perhaps it is a 'reasonable'(?) tweak of the Power that seems to be raising a ruckus.

Petty Officer
Nov 21, 2012
96
I think the way to go about this isn't to debuff anything, it's to restore the defensive classes. Honestly, I think you should be allowed to stack shields, I also think that HtL should work against hidden enemies. That'd give Buccaneer's a good use of their power.

What I mostly think, though, is that Sprocket Key shouldn't give Purge Magic. That gives hidden Swashbuckler's the most OP tactic to use.

I also find it odd that the only lvl 55+ power is a WD power. KI shouldn't have done that. Either there are no lvl 55+ powers available on gear or there is one from each class. WD shouldn't be singled out like that. If Purge is available on gear, so should Fog, so should Enduring Discipline, so should Highland Charge, and so should Tempest of Torpedoes. KI, you shouldn't have made Purge the only lvl 55+ power available on gear. Either make the other 55+ powers available or none of them. Does anyone agree with me?

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
EllieTheSwash on Jul 24, 2015 wrote:
I think this is exactly some happy little kitty fight over who is better.
Too many people getting it too seriously. After all, this is a game people should enjoy playing, not arguing over. To me, that arguing part doesn't make sense.

OK, so how is this for a thought:
-Any shield you stack (or not) stays after your Buck being hit. (fact)
-Bucklers fog doesn't. So Buckler returns to normal hit strenght - exposed to all what Buck has to deliver to him.
-But Buck retains 50% damage reduction (or whatever shield you have on).
How's that for fair?
Should we change that shield be removed too after being hit (it shatters under high power Buckler hit)?
Nah, that wouldn't be fair. I'm just kidding with you. Little oil on fire.

What ever they change on any character, i know i will learn to adapt it and still enjoy the game as i do now.
And my friends will do so too.

Love you all! (and these happy little kitty fights too)
Bucklers fog is like a 100% shield to any melee class for 5 rounds + the damage

Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
161
May I shine my light onto this thread a bit more of why this Black Fog technically just got a 'buff' itself?

Well Laarn's scent is a glitch so we can't rely on him to survive Fog. But companions got an update, a big one in deed allowing massive chains become a norm, what does this mean for us? Well lets get started.

- The original problem with Fog is it gave the companions already with higher base damage and ability to combo a lot better then just the pirate x2 damage this meant they could easily kill our entire team and bring it down to usually a 4v2 or 4v1 which is already annoying enough as it is.
- This update means that 4v1 is the only thing that will happen, why? Because Fog gives Goro who can now have Relentless 3 meaning if he doesn't hit a strength unit HE WILL RELENTLESS SPAM and Fan now has Riposte so you can't rely on Veng companions, etc.

Black Fog relied on the companions dealing massive amount of spike damage which can't be recovered from, well it just got a buff technically since the companions became a lot more reliable to do that. Good job Ratbeard and the team making those calls you buffed the power the majority of the players are complaining about, you can't ignore Black Fog, sorry. That's just ignorant to leave such an overwhelming power sitting there mostly making it even more useful for the companions....

Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
161
EllieTheSwash on Jul 23, 2015 wrote:
Well, all this discussion looks to me as one whining to another who has better car and how often one wins the race.
Mine is faster on straight line, but yours is better in corners. And so on.
Not my fault you bought that car.
Learn to play with your class. Each have their pros and cons, each are good and bad in some aspects of fighting.
Swashbuckler can't do much against ranged units when not hidden, specially in PvP.
It was said so many times here already, really no point in going over it again.
And when you play in group with Swashbuckler i bet that hidden comes so good and handy.

Even melee units with high armor have advantage, regardles on Buckler strong attacks. Buck can hit hard too.
Shall we lower Buck's armor then? Or increase damage Buck gets when doing frenzy??!
How's that souds? Not so good, eh Buccaneers?!

We could find something for each class what's "OP" and "should be" dealt with.
I bet there are many players that have a solution for Buckler hidden, and making no problem out of it.
Besides, meaning of competition is to overcome opponents advantage. Is it not?
Not to whine about his char being faster or stronger. Or hidden.

Enjoy the game my fellow pirates, dont fight over it.
OOOH another one, lets counter these points because they're all wrong! :)

-Learn to play with your class. Each have their pros and cons, each are good and bad in some aspects of fighting.
First off have you not seen whose replying to this? Not just normal central players or randoms. We've played our class for awhile now and have been known as 'top class' players. Like Zuto, best 1v1 Privy IMO (Thou you've gotten rusty buddy) Alex over there prob one of if not the best Muskets IG and for sure a very highly experienced player when it comes to general class game play.

Even Midnight Pirate AKA Harry which people say is the best Buckler IG which I agree with is on our side, so it's not the problem we don't know how to play our class, the problem is we've played our class for so long and for a year not to have a counter to it yet is ridiculous..

-Swashbuckler can't do much against ranged units when not hidden, specially in PvP.
It was said so many times here already, really no point in going over it again.
And when you play in group with Swashbuckler i bet that hidden comes so good and handy.
Swashbucklers? Can't do anything against ranged? I think not.... Ranged has the worst time because no obstacles to create barriers which can't be bypass anymore so you have to deal with fog and protect on such a small open board. You can't rely on AoE's while they're hidden to kill.... Not happening. Also only 1v1 is available so we can't put group fights into this atm...

-Even melee units with high armor have advantage, regardles on Buckler strong attacks. Buck can hit hard too.
Shall we lower Buck's armor then? Or increase damage Buck gets when doing frenzy??!
How's that souds? Not so good, eh Buccaneers?!

The original problem is Armor was useless before, so why lower it again? Bucks have no AoE's, we have less amount of defense for our companions and low accuracy, Bucklers were made to keep Buck in check but are just unbeatable as a buck (Continued in next post)

Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
161
EllieTheSwash on Jul 23, 2015 wrote:
Well, all this discussion looks to me as one whining to another who has better car and how often one wins the race.
Mine is faster on straight line, but yours is better in corners. And so on.
Not my fault you bought that car.
Learn to play with your class. Each have their pros and cons, each are good and bad in some aspects of fighting.
Swashbuckler can't do much against ranged units when not hidden, specially in PvP.
It was said so many times here already, really no point in going over it again.
And when you play in group with Swashbuckler i bet that hidden comes so good and handy.

Even melee units with high armor have advantage, regardles on Buckler strong attacks. Buck can hit hard too.
Shall we lower Buck's armor then? Or increase damage Buck gets when doing frenzy??!
How's that souds? Not so good, eh Buccaneers?!

We could find something for each class what's "OP" and "should be" dealt with.
I bet there are many players that have a solution for Buckler hidden, and making no problem out of it.
Besides, meaning of competition is to overcome opponents advantage. Is it not?
Not to whine about his char being faster or stronger. Or hidden.

Enjoy the game my fellow pirates, dont fight over it.
(Continued from post above)
are unbeatable mostly if they know how to play and don't use generic Strategies... Because Buckler is made to where Buck have the lowest chance vs. Trust me, I've played my Buck for so long I know what classes Buck have an advantage/disadvantage vs.

-We could find something for each class what's "OP" and "should be" dealt with.
That is the eyes of the beholder BUT I mean when almost everyone is complaining about Fog and Test Realms first page is argument threads of people complaining about it, you can't rely deny that it's a big issue. It's been proven that it's an issue and majority rules in democracy, hopefully this game isn't a dictatorship or else please give me the boot Ratbeard I'll gladly take it if that's the case. If there was a problem with Highland, it would've been majorly complained about, when do you ever seen an entire section with multiple threads complaining about that? What about Mournsong, never seen any on that. What about Zeal? Oh we had that for awhile when Privy was OP, it sounded like all the threads we just been talking about but for FOG O: must be a coincidence that a large amount of players are complaining about a power being OP??? How did they fix it hmm I wonder??? BY REDUCING IT TO 3 ROUNDS!!!! Wow that's the same thing we're asking for??? Seriously what is this hoodoo magic, someone call Vadima!

-I bet there are many players that have a solution for Buckler hidden, and making no problem out of it.
Besides, meaning of competition is to overcome opponents advantage. Is it not?
Not to whine about his char being faster or stronger. Or hidden.

Idk how many times I'll have to bring this update, this problem has been like this since the Tower update, almost or if so already, a year ago! We've not sat on our booties shining our Ships, we've been trying to figure out strategies vs it for so long but all end up failing. There IS CURRENTLY NO CONSISTENT COUNTER to Black Fog, and that's why we've asked for a nerf.

Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
826
ShadowStrikerV2 on Jul 24, 2015 wrote:
I think the way to go about this isn't to debuff anything, it's to restore the defensive classes. Honestly, I think you should be allowed to stack shields, I also think that HtL should work against hidden enemies. That'd give Buccaneer's a good use of their power.

What I mostly think, though, is that Sprocket Key shouldn't give Purge Magic. That gives hidden Swashbuckler's the most OP tactic to use.

I also find it odd that the only lvl 55+ power is a WD power. KI shouldn't have done that. Either there are no lvl 55+ powers available on gear or there is one from each class. WD shouldn't be singled out like that. If Purge is available on gear, so should Fog, so should Enduring Discipline, so should Highland Charge, and so should Tempest of Torpedoes. KI, you shouldn't have made Purge the only lvl 55+ power available on gear. Either make the other 55+ powers available or none of them. Does anyone agree with me?
purge should remove hidden it is a buff after all, and thank you for wanting to restore the defensive classes

Bosun
Apr 19, 2012
331
Masonpeev on Jul 22, 2015 wrote:
It always does come up 1st or 2d round and if not fog, then some other hidden for sure
It doesn't always come up 1st or 2nd round. Sometimes you would have to discard several times before it came up and I don't know about you, but I only have 3 or 4 powers that I'm willing to discard at the start of the match.

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
TechnomagePvP on Jul 24, 2015 wrote:
May I shine my light onto this thread a bit more of why this Black Fog technically just got a 'buff' itself?

Well Laarn's scent is a glitch so we can't rely on him to survive Fog. But companions got an update, a big one in deed allowing massive chains become a norm, what does this mean for us? Well lets get started.

- The original problem with Fog is it gave the companions already with higher base damage and ability to combo a lot better then just the pirate x2 damage this meant they could easily kill our entire team and bring it down to usually a 4v2 or 4v1 which is already annoying enough as it is.
- This update means that 4v1 is the only thing that will happen, why? Because Fog gives Goro who can now have Relentless 3 meaning if he doesn't hit a strength unit HE WILL RELENTLESS SPAM and Fan now has Riposte so you can't rely on Veng companions, etc.

Black Fog relied on the companions dealing massive amount of spike damage which can't be recovered from, well it just got a buff technically since the companions became a lot more reliable to do that. Good job Ratbeard and the team making those calls you buffed the power the majority of the players are complaining about, you can't ignore Black Fog, sorry. That's just ignorant to leave such an overwhelming power sitting there mostly making it even more useful for the companions....
Agreed

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
TechnomagePvP on Jul 24, 2015 wrote:
(Continued from post above)
are unbeatable mostly if they know how to play and don't use generic Strategies... Because Buckler is made to where Buck have the lowest chance vs. Trust me, I've played my Buck for so long I know what classes Buck have an advantage/disadvantage vs.

-We could find something for each class what's "OP" and "should be" dealt with.
That is the eyes of the beholder BUT I mean when almost everyone is complaining about Fog and Test Realms first page is argument threads of people complaining about it, you can't rely deny that it's a big issue. It's been proven that it's an issue and majority rules in democracy, hopefully this game isn't a dictatorship or else please give me the boot Ratbeard I'll gladly take it if that's the case. If there was a problem with Highland, it would've been majorly complained about, when do you ever seen an entire section with multiple threads complaining about that? What about Mournsong, never seen any on that. What about Zeal? Oh we had that for awhile when Privy was OP, it sounded like all the threads we just been talking about but for FOG O: must be a coincidence that a large amount of players are complaining about a power being OP??? How did they fix it hmm I wonder??? BY REDUCING IT TO 3 ROUNDS!!!! Wow that's the same thing we're asking for??? Seriously what is this hoodoo magic, someone call Vadima!

-I bet there are many players that have a solution for Buckler hidden, and making no problem out of it.
Besides, meaning of competition is to overcome opponents advantage. Is it not?
Not to whine about his char being faster or stronger. Or hidden.

Idk how many times I'll have to bring this update, this problem has been like this since the Tower update, almost or if so already, a year ago! We've not sat on our booties shining our Ships, we've been trying to figure out strategies vs it for so long but all end up failing. There IS CURRENTLY NO CONSISTENT COUNTER to Black Fog, and that's why we've asked for a nerf.
Yes! The only class that can somewhat counter swashbucklers is WD but they're dead too once the buckler reaches them

Lieutenant
May 09, 2013
157
I think I've mentioned this before, but I think the answer to hidden is making hold the line 3 stop hidden players.

I know it sounds kind of weak for a counter, but it does two things:

1) black fog isn't changed. Swashbucklers can still use their ace in the deck without it being nerfed at all.
2) This encourages strategic play with an ability that not many players opt to get on their companions. By placing a valor's fortress on a hold the line 3 companion, then placing that companion in front of your other troops, you can prevent the swashbuckler death ball from getting to your more vulnerable companions.

Also, with more epics coming out for companions, it won't cost as much to spend three epic talents on hold the line.

What do you think?

Ensign
Dec 24, 2013
8
there needs to be some sort of counter

Petty Officer
Nov 21, 2012
96
bluba4 on Jul 25, 2015 wrote:
I think I've mentioned this before, but I think the answer to hidden is making hold the line 3 stop hidden players.

I know it sounds kind of weak for a counter, but it does two things:

1) black fog isn't changed. Swashbucklers can still use their ace in the deck without it being nerfed at all.
2) This encourages strategic play with an ability that not many players opt to get on their companions. By placing a valor's fortress on a hold the line 3 companion, then placing that companion in front of your other troops, you can prevent the swashbuckler death ball from getting to your more vulnerable companions.

Also, with more epics coming out for companions, it won't cost as much to spend three epic talents on hold the line.

What do you think?
That's what I've been saying! XD

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Spiral Cowboy on Jul 24, 2015 wrote:
It doesn't always come up 1st or 2nd round. Sometimes you would have to discard several times before it came up and I don't know about you, but I only have 3 or 4 powers that I'm willing to discard at the start of the match.
Well from facing 20 swashbucklers out of 30 ranked pvp matches which should already send a message they all use black fog within the first 2 turns