The REAL problem with swashbucklers

AuthorMessage
Gunner's Mate
Dec 16, 2009
212
Masonpeev on Sep 27, 2015 wrote:
being the most popular school shouldnt mean having 20+ buckler champions 5-6 buccaneers maybe like 4 witches 3-5 muskets, and 4 or so privateers. And our shields do nothing vs poison
Why shouldn't it? Do we know exactly how much more populous swash is then the other schools?

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
Eric Stormbringer on Sep 29, 2015 wrote:
Lol dont pretend that just because buckler is the most popular school means that it should automatically have the highest number of champions. Can you not hear the illogical assumption in that statement?

How in the world is that an illogical assumption? If I have a higher number of participants in any activity then I would expect them to have a higher proficiency if all other things are equal. Also no one has said that swashbuckler is weak and that buccaneer is OP. What we did say is that bucaneer is the top tier class: An opinion shared by the developer and most expert PvPers.

Besides...its not just the highest number...its the highest RATIO as well. Nice attempt at trying to twist my words. But I guarantee that there are more buckler to buckler champions then there are to any of the other schools.

You have access to KI's data?

Also have you considered that its the most popular BECAUSE its the most powerful? Hmmm? After all if it was...what did you say..."the most limited school" then no one would wanna play it! Its popular because its awesome and they tear everything apart!

It was the most popular school long before the release of Ranked PvP and even back in the days when it was complete garbage in PvP.

But by the end of the battle I am all out defense and wide open, while the patient buckler has his cloak ready, another poison ready, AND an shield equipped.

At the end of the battle you should be able to still have defenses left if you are geared correctly.

Would be great to have killed them sooner so that things didn't get that desperate but they were hiding in the shadows for 15 rounds.

That's your fault. A swashbuckler cannot chain hides so if you missed your windows thats on you.
Not illogical?
It is. Because that makes the assumption that everyone can use the school the same way or with the same level of profiency. Keep in mind that this is a kids game and lots of kids play it. Not all are equally strategic or smart. The point I am trying to make is that buckler is most popular because it is EASIEST and most powerful to pvp with. Kids who struggle with the thorough and constatly changing strategy's of a privy or musket and knowing when to do which moves when to pull back and be patient vs when to strike...dont have to do any of that with a buckler. Bucklers are so over powered and so easy that it pulls in more players especially kids. So I am saying it doesnt have the most because it is most popular. That is making assumptions. I think it is the most popular because it is easiest to win with both in pvp and pve.

KI Data
I have limited to access to some data. This is what I have seen and put together. Its true from all the data I have gatherd. If KI releases data contrary to what I said I will retract this statement and eat my words.

Defenses left
Ha! There is none left! Trust me. between a bucklers own forts and shield and cloaks...I would need like 20 shields to have any left by the end of that. Each cloak lasts 5 rounds remember? So they can wait out 4 sets of shields by their cloak alone. And then be shielded up for any actual encounters. But as I mentioned all this time i am suffering from poison, unable to heal, and having them assassin strike from the cloaked position so it still does a good chunk even through my shields.

Your fault
Haha its not my fault. The only time a buckler comes out of the shadows he is all tanked up with shields. So it becomes a shield vs shield battle where they start by hitting from the shadows. And most schools dont have the epics to compete with a buckler in that sort of confrontation. Even as a buck I loose a lot cause first strike triggers all their other epics before stun can do its job.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
Eric Stormbringer on Sep 29, 2015 wrote:
Why shouldn't it? Do we know exactly how much more populous swash is then the other schools?
Because If buck or musket were easier we would see higher numbers. More people would see how easy it was to reach champion and play with those schools. Having more doesnt mean everyone pvp's. Having success and being easier is a much more reliable explanation.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
Eric Stormbringer on Sep 29, 2015 wrote:
Oh and one more thing I forgot to mention about your end all fix all barricade strategy that protects against bucklers. All a buckler really has to do to stop that strategy is wait a turn before doing black fog. Sneak up and break the barrier then fog up and kill everyone.

What are you talking about? Why in the world are you using barricade before a swashbuckler has cast fog? How is a swashbuckler sneaking up and breaking the barricade without extreme retaliation or a preemptive strike?

Because now all his guys have to run around their own shield to hit the guy destroying it giving him time to lash out at them now that they aren't actually behind it.

If all your units are ganging up on the unit breaking the barricade-then the unit breaking the barricade is dead without dealing any non-responsive damage to your units.

sort of makes this fool proof strategy of yours rather foolish.

Except for the people who actually know how to utilize barricade.
Preemptive strike?
With 2 guys plugging the hole fighting the guy on the end and 2 breaking the wall where is there a chance to strike? My other 3 guys cant get out because the 2 on the end are plugging the hole. Sure the guy on the end is fighting but its 2 on 1 so good luck with that. Meanwhile the other 2 are tearing down my wall and coming strait for the pirate or companions in the back.

All ganging up
Its the other way around. No one can jump over the barricade and movement speed is limited. So in order to run around the barricade Only one or two guys can make that distance and hit in the same turn. So when they get out there its not 4 on 1 in favor of the one with the shield. Its 2 on 4 in favor of the attacker. Bascially they are running out of the wall into an ambush. Its not like your opponent only has one guy breaking the wall. All 4 of them are sitting out there waiting to rush in through the hole or pounce on whoever is dumb enough to come out. This all of course assuming I even can get out since my above post mentioned the plug. Which would be good...if they didnt tear down the wall while fighting the guy on the end. AAAAND this is assuming they dont purge all of my buffs the moment the wall is about to come down...which is what usually happens.

Foolish
So what turned into a fool proof defensive strategy...just turns into the player trapping themselves inside their own bottleneck. So the buckler can pick them off like shooting fish in a barrel :P

Gunner's Mate
Dec 16, 2009
212
Thomas Sunhammer on Sep 29, 2015 wrote:
Not illogical?
It is. Because that makes the assumption that everyone can use the school the same way or with the same level of profiency. Keep in mind that this is a kids game and lots of kids play it. Not all are equally strategic or smart. The point I am trying to make is that buckler is most popular because it is EASIEST and most powerful to pvp with. Kids who struggle with the thorough and constatly changing strategy's of a privy or musket and knowing when to do which moves when to pull back and be patient vs when to strike...dont have to do any of that with a buckler. Bucklers are so over powered and so easy that it pulls in more players especially kids. So I am saying it doesnt have the most because it is most popular. That is making assumptions. I think it is the most popular because it is easiest to win with both in pvp and pve.

KI Data
I have limited to access to some data. This is what I have seen and put together. Its true from all the data I have gatherd. If KI releases data contrary to what I said I will retract this statement and eat my words.

Defenses left
Ha! There is none left! Trust me. between a bucklers own forts and shield and cloaks...I would need like 20 shields to have any left by the end of that. Each cloak lasts 5 rounds remember? So they can wait out 4 sets of shields by their cloak alone. And then be shielded up for any actual encounters. But as I mentioned all this time i am suffering from poison, unable to heal, and having them assassin strike from the cloaked position so it still does a good chunk even through my shields.

Your fault
Haha its not my fault. The only time a buckler comes out of the shadows he is all tanked up with shields. So it becomes a shield vs shield battle where they start by hitting from the shadows. And most schools dont have the epics to compete with a buckler in that sort of confrontation. Even as a buck I loose a lot cause first strike triggers all their other epics before stun can do its job.
So I am saying it doesnt have the most because it is most popular. That is making assumptions. I think it is the most popular because it is easiest to win with both in pvp and pve.

So then perhaps you can explain why swashbuckler was the most popular before the advent of Ranked PvP, the fixes to hide and when it was at the bottom of the PvP food chain.

I have limited to access to some data. This is what I have seen and put together. Its true from all the data I have gatherd.

In other words- purely anecdotal evidence.

Ha! There is none left! Trust me. between a bucklers own forts and shield and cloaks...I would need like 20 shields to have any left by the end of that. Each cloak lasts 5 rounds remember

Shields last longer than cloak and a bucc can match a swash's hide tit for tat with shields.

The only time a buckler comes out of the shadows he is all tanked up with shields. So it becomes a shield vs shield battle where they start by hitting from the shadows. And most schools dont have the epics to compete with a buckler in that sort of confrontation. Even as a buck I loose a lot cause first strike triggers all their other epics before stun can do its job.

You can hide or use purge yourself to create openings. Hence the play and counterplay that is the essence of P101 PvP.

Gunner's Mate
Dec 16, 2009
212
Thomas Sunhammer on Sep 29, 2015 wrote:
Because If buck or musket were easier we would see higher numbers. More people would see how easy it was to reach champion and play with those schools. Having more doesnt mean everyone pvp's. Having success and being easier is a much more reliable explanation.
Because If buck or musket were easier we would see higher numbers. More people would see how easy it was to reach champion and play with those schools.

An unproven assumption based on no data. In fact it contradicts data since swashbuckler was more popular BEFORE the advent of Ranked PvP back when it was still a laughable PvP class.

Gunner's Mate
Dec 16, 2009
212
Thomas Sunhammer on Sep 29, 2015 wrote:
Preemptive strike?
With 2 guys plugging the hole fighting the guy on the end and 2 breaking the wall where is there a chance to strike? My other 3 guys cant get out because the 2 on the end are plugging the hole. Sure the guy on the end is fighting but its 2 on 1 so good luck with that. Meanwhile the other 2 are tearing down my wall and coming strait for the pirate or companions in the back.

All ganging up
Its the other way around. No one can jump over the barricade and movement speed is limited. So in order to run around the barricade Only one or two guys can make that distance and hit in the same turn. So when they get out there its not 4 on 1 in favor of the one with the shield. Its 2 on 4 in favor of the attacker. Bascially they are running out of the wall into an ambush. Its not like your opponent only has one guy breaking the wall. All 4 of them are sitting out there waiting to rush in through the hole or pounce on whoever is dumb enough to come out. This all of course assuming I even can get out since my above post mentioned the plug. Which would be good...if they didnt tear down the wall while fighting the guy on the end. AAAAND this is assuming they dont purge all of my buffs the moment the wall is about to come down...which is what usually happens.

Foolish
So what turned into a fool proof defensive strategy...just turns into the player trapping themselves inside their own bottleneck. So the buckler can pick them off like shooting fish in a barrel :P
With 2 guys plugging the hole fighting the guy on the end and 2 breaking the wall where is there a chance to strike?

Two attacking the barricade and 2 engaging the enemy? So in other words your barricade completely countered fog? Seems it was a success then.

Meanwhile the other 2 are tearing down my wall and coming strait for the pirate or companions in the back.

By tearing down the wall they handed turn advantage to you so then you get first strike capability. Wow barricade is sounding better and better.

Its 2 on 4 in favor of the attacker. Bascially they are running out of the wall into an ambush. Its not like your opponent only has one guy breaking the wall.

In most cases at least 3 units can hit so then it becomes a 3 on 3 the next round. Seems legit.

Just turns into the player trapping themselves inside their own bottleneck.

Or a player successfully countering fog...all depending on the skill of the associated players.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
Oh no! Its coming at last. The old scratch poison combo! We are all doomed. If you didnt think poison was an issue before...well it will definitely be so now! 190 is the average poison people agree on it seems. Well now it will be twice that with the max boost on. That is 380 for 5 rounds BEFORE critical! That is 1900 damage from the shadows! Haha lol and yet despite the fact they remain cloaked and do that level of damage and curse for 6 rounds and use purge to remove my fort when I try to stop it WHILE REMAINING still in the shadows and then buff up right after purge while I am busy trying to put my fort back on...you bucklers still dont think you are over powered. Fine. When bucklers completely start dominating with this new change and bucks who have no magic damage to speak of are left in the dust. Maybe then you will acknowledge that you are an over powered school.

I suppose muskets might get a nice advantage boost and witches will finally be contenders. But it seems like the last few changes have nerfed bucks and boosted everyone else. I guess the game makers love bucklers and hate bucks. Which is a shame cause right now they are already starting to struggle in pvp. And this change might put them at the bottom. Well whatever. Heaven forbid we should ever nerf a buckler to make the pvp experience even.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
I wanted to add this little part for any nay sayers who will undoubtedly come on and say "Oh witches hit much harder now." "Musket bombs are strong too" Bucklers aren't the ONLY ones that benefited.

Yes...this is true. However...that is not my problem. If it had ONLY helped witches and privy I would have no problem with this change. But bucklers were ALREADY top tier...and now they have this benefit too. I would also like to point out on this thread as I did on another one...that the only school that doesn't get a benefit from the scratch upgrade...are the bucks.

Well I hope everyone is happy. Bucks have now been left in the dust. Now even if a buck DOES rush a witch or musket...the following mojo storms and bomb volleys are so powerful all the rushers are dead in one round or maybe two if they have fort on. Bucklers...all they need is one good boosted poison too land and its game over for those companions and close to game over for the human pirate. Not to mention you can't heal if they chose to use the mist one...and you can shield if they have purge...aaand you can't hit since they are still cloaked throughout all of this. Lol still think they not over powered?

Oddly enough privy didn't get as much benefit as I would have liked. Yes they heal better and their bombs do more damage. But the bombs were pretty weak to start and you can't heal a companion if its killed in one round. Basically this WOULD have helped...if it was just them. But it powered up EVERYONE ESLE so much around them...that they are kind of right where they have always been.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9111
Thomas Sunhammer on Oct 1, 2015 wrote:
Oh no! Its coming at last. The old scratch poison combo! We are all doomed. If you didnt think poison was an issue before...well it will definitely be so now! 190 is the average poison people agree on it seems. Well now it will be twice that with the max boost on. That is 380 for 5 rounds BEFORE critical! That is 1900 damage from the shadows! Haha lol and yet despite the fact they remain cloaked and do that level of damage and curse for 6 rounds and use purge to remove my fort when I try to stop it WHILE REMAINING still in the shadows and then buff up right after purge while I am busy trying to put my fort back on...you bucklers still dont think you are over powered. Fine. When bucklers completely start dominating with this new change and bucks who have no magic damage to speak of are left in the dust. Maybe then you will acknowledge that you are an over powered school.

I suppose muskets might get a nice advantage boost and witches will finally be contenders. But it seems like the last few changes have nerfed bucks and boosted everyone else. I guess the game makers love bucklers and hate bucks. Which is a shame cause right now they are already starting to struggle in pvp. And this change might put them at the bottom. Well whatever. Heaven forbid we should ever nerf a buckler to make the pvp experience even.
Two errors I wish to address then I'll let you go on ranting.
"That is 1900 damage from the shadows!"
Are you implying that poison gets double damage during hidden? This isn't so, there is no hidden boost to any poison.
".... and curse for 6 rounds...."
Nope, curse is only 5 rounds.
"you bucklers still don't think you are over powered, fine."
Yep, you finally understand - we're not over powered, but it takes planning and strategy to defeat us ( just the same as you would strategize against any other class. ) And many of us have given you good hints and advice for this, which you reject. So your losses are on you and not the so-called "OP" buckler.

Gunner's Mate
Dec 16, 2009
212
Thomas Sunhammer on Oct 1, 2015 wrote:
Oh no! Its coming at last. The old scratch poison combo! We are all doomed. If you didnt think poison was an issue before...well it will definitely be so now! 190 is the average poison people agree on it seems. Well now it will be twice that with the max boost on. That is 380 for 5 rounds BEFORE critical! That is 1900 damage from the shadows! Haha lol and yet despite the fact they remain cloaked and do that level of damage and curse for 6 rounds and use purge to remove my fort when I try to stop it WHILE REMAINING still in the shadows and then buff up right after purge while I am busy trying to put my fort back on...you bucklers still dont think you are over powered. Fine. When bucklers completely start dominating with this new change and bucks who have no magic damage to speak of are left in the dust. Maybe then you will acknowledge that you are an over powered school.

I suppose muskets might get a nice advantage boost and witches will finally be contenders. But it seems like the last few changes have nerfed bucks and boosted everyone else. I guess the game makers love bucklers and hate bucks. Which is a shame cause right now they are already starting to struggle in pvp. And this change might put them at the bottom. Well whatever. Heaven forbid we should ever nerf a buckler to make the pvp experience even.
You do realize bringing scratch onto a swash team limits him also. To utilize scratch from a range a swash would have to carry a staffy weapon(not viable). In order to utilize scratch with a viable weapon a swash has to move along with scratch's limited movement range effectively cutting his own movement in half on the approach. As such I don't expect to see swash gaining much from him. In fact I will test scratch out but I seriously doubt he can replace a hard hitter such as nausica.

Lieutenant
Aug 29, 2008
146
Eric Stormbringer on Oct 1, 2015 wrote:
You do realize bringing scratch onto a swash team limits him also. To utilize scratch from a range a swash would have to carry a staffy weapon(not viable). In order to utilize scratch with a viable weapon a swash has to move along with scratch's limited movement range effectively cutting his own movement in half on the approach. As such I don't expect to see swash gaining much from him. In fact I will test scratch out but I seriously doubt he can replace a hard hitter such as nausica.
Is even worse than that Eric, even if you carry a staffy weapon, you will not get boosted from range by Old Scratch from last time I tested it. Your Will has to strictly be higher than your Strength and Agility for Old Scratch buff to help you from range, which is almost impossible to do as a Buckler.

So in theory, for this super powerful 100% spell power boosted Poison that Thomas is talking about, you would have to use the buff then charge across the board towards your opponent, all in the 2 turns that the buff lasts.

The 100% spell power buff will only be useful to classes that can drop multiple Valor's Armors in that duration (Witch, Muskets) or classes that can bypass obstacles with their powers (Privateers' Big Guns).

In fact, if I saw a Buckler bringing Scratch into the arena, I would be happy. Scratch cannot take full advantage of the power of Black Fog, since he lacks any critical cards. It would mean one less fogged unit to worry about compared to the likes of Nausica, Fan Flanders, Goro, etc.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
anecorbie on Oct 1, 2015 wrote:
Two errors I wish to address then I'll let you go on ranting.
"That is 1900 damage from the shadows!"
Are you implying that poison gets double damage during hidden? This isn't so, there is no hidden boost to any poison.
".... and curse for 6 rounds...."
Nope, curse is only 5 rounds.
"you bucklers still don't think you are over powered, fine."
Yep, you finally understand - we're not over powered, but it takes planning and strategy to defeat us ( just the same as you would strategize against any other class. ) And many of us have given you good hints and advice for this, which you reject. So your losses are on you and not the so-called "OP" buckler.
Again you didn't read. Sigh. Old scratch doubles mojo power with the 100% boost one. Poison is powered by a players mojo...thus...if the mojo is doubled and you do poison...then yes it does 1900. The comment about being in cloak is concerning the fact that you can do that much damage and remain hidden.

Curse actually lasts a round longer than the poison damage itself. Yes it is only 5 rounds. But poison acts for 5 rounds the way a strength or agility buff does. But the curse itself doesn't end until AFTER my turn. So it acts as the longer version. So yes its only 5 rounds but 5 full rounds...where as the damage starts that round and is technically only 4 rounds long.

Lol I am pvping on my privy and I still can't beat the top bucklers. If i try to barricade he sends in a forted nausica to prevent me. If I try stop poison I am purged. If I buff up he stays safely hidden where he can heal up and prepare for the next assault. I am telling you a smart buckler HAS NO OPENINGS. Unless they just get bad luck or something. And any school that can play without weaknesses is over powered. It has nothing to do with strategy. If you had the best player in the world playing himself...much like a person playing chess or something against himself...I guarantee that buckler side would win 9 out of 10 times. ((assuming he was honest with himself of course))

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
Eric Stormbringer on Oct 1, 2015 wrote:
You do realize bringing scratch onto a swash team limits him also. To utilize scratch from a range a swash would have to carry a staffy weapon(not viable). In order to utilize scratch with a viable weapon a swash has to move along with scratch's limited movement range effectively cutting his own movement in half on the approach. As such I don't expect to see swash gaining much from him. In fact I will test scratch out but I seriously doubt he can replace a hard hitter such as nausica.
Ah but you see he is still effective! I have had matches where I have defeated all of his companions and still had one or too of mine. But still lost because I can't get around the poison cloak strike combo. You a buckler is so strong he almost doesn't need companions. I have had loads of matches where I have the clear advantage and lost because a buckler can win off his defense (cloak counts as defense) alone. So keep scratch hidden and have him trail along after the pirate. And/or do both the big and small boosts that way even if he dies you still have the decent boost for 10 rounds! I have experienced it first hand now. That poison is lethal! REALLY lethal. And purge and not being able to heal...lol sorry but there is nothing you can do. Even if you loose scratch as long as the human dies who cares if he has the companion advantage. And besides poison can poison more than one.

First Mate
Dec 29, 2012
406
Eric Stormbringer on Oct 1, 2015 wrote:
You do realize bringing scratch onto a swash team limits him also. To utilize scratch from a range a swash would have to carry a staffy weapon(not viable). In order to utilize scratch with a viable weapon a swash has to move along with scratch's limited movement range effectively cutting his own movement in half on the approach. As such I don't expect to see swash gaining much from him. In fact I will test scratch out but I seriously doubt he can replace a hard hitter such as nausica.
Since this is a nerf thread, I would like Hurl Knife added to the list. I don't want to develop a strategy against a ranged Swash and I just don't think they should have that ability. Nuff said.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9111
Oran from Urz on Oct 2, 2015 wrote:
Since this is a nerf thread, I would like Hurl Knife added to the list. I don't want to develop a strategy against a ranged Swash and I just don't think they should have that ability. Nuff said.
"I don't want to develop a strategy against a ranged Swash and I just don't think they should have that ability."
That shows lazy thinking, because you don't want to strategize, KI has to remove a power? That's one of only two trained ranged attack ( and it doesn't have a great range, either. )
Throwing knives is exactly the type of attack you should expect from a swashbuckler ( "deadly with a blade, right? )

Bosun
Dec 16, 2012
331
Oran from Urz on Oct 2, 2015 wrote:
Since this is a nerf thread, I would like Hurl Knife added to the list. I don't want to develop a strategy against a ranged Swash and I just don't think they should have that ability. Nuff said.
I honestly cannot tell if this is sarcasm or not.

Gunner's Mate
Aug 08, 2010
288
Voodoo Cornelius on Oct 2, 2015 wrote:
I honestly cannot tell if this is sarcasm or not.
I think and hope it's sarcasm, because it ends with "nuff said"

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
Oran from Urz on Oct 2, 2015 wrote:
Since this is a nerf thread, I would like Hurl Knife added to the list. I don't want to develop a strategy against a ranged Swash and I just don't think they should have that ability. Nuff said.
Well I don't know about nerfering hurl knives but you make a valid point. Bucklers have a little bit of EVERYTHING. They are like the ice school in wizard101. If fire had a DoT AoE...they give ice a better one. If balance learns remove pips...they give ice a better one. Life absorb...ice better one.

Buckler school is becoming a lot like that. They dont have enough armor...lets include armor into their weapons! Lets give them magic AND physcial damage. And yes they have a range attack they can use on top of everything else. Now old scratch boosts them even more. I am pretty sure KI wants them to stay on top at all times. They are people after all...why can't they have their own favorites?

Bosun
May 10, 2010
396
I am still waiting to finally read something in this entire thread that has any real relevance and that truly states any problems with swashbucklers or anything that truly makes them over powered.

I have heard a lot of people whine and complain about things, most of these issues are way in the past, before ranked PVP was introduced. Before companions got upgrades. Yet, people are still stating this swashbucklers are too overpowered?

I even read someone say that Buccaneers are going to be at the bottom again because of Ol Scratch, like seriously? Buccaneers are at the top of their game right now and one of the best classes to play, finally.

Swashbuckler has always been fun.

Witchdoctor now has a huge power increase, but very limited range.

Musketeers have always been the sit back and wait class, totally defensive.

Privateers are the ones you have to strategize or pay to win the most with.

The real problem with PVP is not classes being over powered, or talents, it's the rare companions you get from the Grizzly Packs! Seriously, have you seen how overpowered these companions are, if you want to win, just spend a few hundred dollars, make sure you get these companions and learn how to setup your companions and defend them and yourself.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9111
Thomas Sunhammer on Oct 3, 2015 wrote:
Well I don't know about nerfering hurl knives but you make a valid point. Bucklers have a little bit of EVERYTHING. They are like the ice school in wizard101. If fire had a DoT AoE...they give ice a better one. If balance learns remove pips...they give ice a better one. Life absorb...ice better one.

Buckler school is becoming a lot like that. They dont have enough armor...lets include armor into their weapons! Lets give them magic AND physcial damage. And yes they have a range attack they can use on top of everything else. Now old scratch boosts them even more. I am pretty sure KI wants them to stay on top at all times. They are people after all...why can't they have their own favorites?
Oh my goodness! Now you're after Hurl knife/blades?!
1. it does very little damage
2. it has the worst range of any range attacks
It hurts mobility, as if you can't reach me in 3 squares. Oh but if you want to run away, well that's different.
And now you're accusing KI of "playing favorites"? Get real!!!!!
I think you're the one who is most prejudiced here.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
Darth JT on Oct 3, 2015 wrote:
I am still waiting to finally read something in this entire thread that has any real relevance and that truly states any problems with swashbucklers or anything that truly makes them over powered.

I have heard a lot of people whine and complain about things, most of these issues are way in the past, before ranked PVP was introduced. Before companions got upgrades. Yet, people are still stating this swashbucklers are too overpowered?

I even read someone say that Buccaneers are going to be at the bottom again because of Ol Scratch, like seriously? Buccaneers are at the top of their game right now and one of the best classes to play, finally.

Swashbuckler has always been fun.

Witchdoctor now has a huge power increase, but very limited range.

Musketeers have always been the sit back and wait class, totally defensive.

Privateers are the ones you have to strategize or pay to win the most with.

The real problem with PVP is not classes being over powered, or talents, it's the rare companions you get from the Grizzly Packs! Seriously, have you seen how overpowered these companions are, if you want to win, just spend a few hundred dollars, make sure you get these companions and learn how to setup your companions and defend them and yourself.
Ok. First of all bucklers can win off their cloak and poison alone. If you still cant see that then your in denial.

But the real reason I am replying is due to your comment about the bears. The bears have been left behind! The only one still competing is baar and that is ONLY because he is a promotion ahead of everyone else! Anne and rat have 8 epics. All of the main companions and starters have 7 epics. Baar as I said has 7 epics also. Which means that FOR NOW he is still a viable choice. But he is allready on his third promotion. Which means when all the starters and pete and fan and chantel etc all get their up and coming promotions they will all have 8 just like ratbeard and anne...and now baar will only have 7 still. The other bears...right now...only have 5! Basically they are at the same level as hawkulees and zeena. Who didnt get ANY of the level promotions OR have had any promotions.

The bears "technically" have 2 promotion and you can get them at the beginning of the game so they should have 3 level boosts too. That gives them exactly 5. Which means that a bear no longer has any starting epic...nor does he get 2 epics at his first promotion like the starters and campaign companions do. When the new world comes out everyone will have 8...while the bears are stuck at 7 and 6 (if the other 5 bears promote.)

They are 2 epics behind everyone else. And those nifty little powers they have and the whimpy little pets they "may" summon...aren't worth that big of a deficit.

2 epics is a HUGE deal! So if you think the bears are truely over powered you clearly havent tried to personally use them in pvp. As I said...baar is the only one that still works well in pvp. Being tied with the starters and his 3 cards give him the necessary edge to continue being good at pvp. But idk how long that will last

Bosun
May 10, 2010
396
Thomas Sunhammer on Oct 4, 2015 wrote:
Ok. First of all bucklers can win off their cloak and poison alone. If you still cant see that then your in denial.

But the real reason I am replying is due to your comment about the bears. The bears have been left behind! The only one still competing is baar and that is ONLY because he is a promotion ahead of everyone else! Anne and rat have 8 epics. All of the main companions and starters have 7 epics. Baar as I said has 7 epics also. Which means that FOR NOW he is still a viable choice. But he is allready on his third promotion. Which means when all the starters and pete and fan and chantel etc all get their up and coming promotions they will all have 8 just like ratbeard and anne...and now baar will only have 7 still. The other bears...right now...only have 5! Basically they are at the same level as hawkulees and zeena. Who didnt get ANY of the level promotions OR have had any promotions.

The bears "technically" have 2 promotion and you can get them at the beginning of the game so they should have 3 level boosts too. That gives them exactly 5. Which means that a bear no longer has any starting epic...nor does he get 2 epics at his first promotion like the starters and campaign companions do. When the new world comes out everyone will have 8...while the bears are stuck at 7 and 6 (if the other 5 bears promote.)

They are 2 epics behind everyone else. And those nifty little powers they have and the whimpy little pets they "may" summon...aren't worth that big of a deficit.

2 epics is a HUGE deal! So if you think the bears are truely over powered you clearly havent tried to personally use them in pvp. As I said...baar is the only one that still works well in pvp. Being tied with the starters and his 3 cards give him the necessary edge to continue being good at pvp. But idk how long that will last
A swashbuckler should not be able to win off of hide and poison alone, if you are that easily defeated, you should not be playing pvp. There are many ways to reduce and/or absorb damage. Swashbucklers only have 1 poison that prevents healing, which, as I stated before, if a player knows what they are doing, they can easily reduce damage and/or absorb the damage. Every class can hide, it is not class specific to swashbuckler alone. however yes, Swashbucklers can have the most hides.

Now, for the other grizzly beast companions if only 1 has 7 epics and the others have 5, sounds like a bug that I am sure will be corrected. However, for you to simply discard the 2 summon and the epic abilities of the grizzly companion? That is like trying to state that the moo robe before its nerf was irrelevant in pvp. It's simply not true.

So, let me counter some of your so called over exaggerated mathematics, shall I? Do you know that Pirates can Leviathan call? Kraken Lament? Valor Armor, Valor Shield? Hide? There are so many ways to reduce damage from yes, even poison. Did you also know that these damage reductions stack? Did you also know that if you spread your team out poison will not hit the entire team? You try to make it sound like a swashbuckler will hit every pirate and companion with poison every time, that is just not the case.

As with any class Swashbucklers have limited cards that can appear at any given time. Fog will not always appear in the lineup immediately, in fact, it is very easy and possible to defeat a Swashbuckler in 1 or 2 rounds. Strategy and counters are the bread and butter of PVP, if you are not thinking of ways to counter things, then you are not trying to pvp, you are begging for wins!

Bosun
Dec 16, 2012
331
Darth JT on Oct 3, 2015 wrote:
I am still waiting to finally read something in this entire thread that has any real relevance and that truly states any problems with swashbucklers or anything that truly makes them over powered.

I have heard a lot of people whine and complain about things, most of these issues are way in the past, before ranked PVP was introduced. Before companions got upgrades. Yet, people are still stating this swashbucklers are too overpowered?

I even read someone say that Buccaneers are going to be at the bottom again because of Ol Scratch, like seriously? Buccaneers are at the top of their game right now and one of the best classes to play, finally.

Swashbuckler has always been fun.

Witchdoctor now has a huge power increase, but very limited range.

Musketeers have always been the sit back and wait class, totally defensive.

Privateers are the ones you have to strategize or pay to win the most with.

The real problem with PVP is not classes being over powered, or talents, it's the rare companions you get from the Grizzly Packs! Seriously, have you seen how overpowered these companions are, if you want to win, just spend a few hundred dollars, make sure you get these companions and learn how to setup your companions and defend them and yourself.
No offense, but do you have the companions? They aren't exactly necessary. I mean, baar and the musketeer are great, but on average, the rest are as good as regular companions. They only get 5 epics, so that kinda evens them out in comparison to the 7 epic ones we have now.

Bosun
May 10, 2010
396
Voodoo Cornelius on Oct 5, 2015 wrote:
No offense, but do you have the companions? They aren't exactly necessary. I mean, baar and the musketeer are great, but on average, the rest are as good as regular companions. They only get 5 epics, so that kinda evens them out in comparison to the 7 epic ones we have now.
You are going off track here with your post, the topic is, the real problem with swashbucklers... There are other threads or we could start a new thread to talk about how OP the grizzly beast companions are, that would be fine, but lets not hijack this thread to debate this. Even by your own accord, the Buck and Musketeer one are great, which I am sure, if the others still only have 5 epics, that is an oversight (Bug) that will be fixed, since that does not make any sense for them not to have the same amount of epics, now does it?

Anyway, I was bringing them up, because people fail to realize the importance of having a great setup, choice of companions, choice of epics, and just scream that things are too overpowered if they don't have the right setup or if they use the wrong choice of companions.

Sorry, but there are no real problems with swashbucklers, the real problem are with peoples choices.