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Concerns about Pirate101 and Racism

AuthorMessage
Admiral
Jul 07, 2013
1124
If everything was politically correct there could be no ideas or representation of any kind because in order to have an idea it has to be biased against another one. Sorry.

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
826
Alex the Pirate on Jan 2, 2018 wrote:
I know what you mean man, it really sucks when we have to actually ACKNOWLEDGE the misjudgement, imprisonment, and innocent slaughter of others. (While some of these posts do seem to have a bit of an SJW vibe to them, I'd say everyone's opinion is worth hearing)
if you would like we can meet up in game so i can destroy your beliefs with facts and reality, however the messages boards are not the place for such talks and should be used to DISCUSS THE GAME AND NOT IMAGINARY SLIGHTS.

Captain
Sep 19, 2012
631
though at first it may seem a bit uncomfortable, i promise everything gets righted.. slowly yet surely the story twists and plots open your eyes to many things normally not seen because they are uncomfortable.. i thoroughly applaud the awakening this game causes, it helps to show the correct way of appreciation into all cultures, i'm a registered native and imo cool ranch was inspiring; i was grateful that a mainstream game would go so far to represent us in it at all, let alone with such respect & admiration.. as you go on you'll see how the pirate's(your char) mind has been broadened, from a kids point of view its tactfully shown how different peoples cultures were once viewed in history depending on where you came from, & how that's not right. KI team's touch on this is light yet thorough, if you weren't originally aware of things like oppression, not only do you see it, your character learns the best ways to help fight it while balancing out their normal day2day duties as adventurers and saving the spiral from itself.. i found that to be compelling and powerful move, to help others see both sides and how to easily grow and gain courage to stick up for those that feel oppressed, and gain wisdom(mooshu) as to when your fight can help make a difference, and when unknowingly things might accidentally go wrong or get worse..

I've finished this game quite a few times, overall I'm left with the feeling that though we are not perfect we can grow and change.. & yes sometimes good intentions can cause unforeseen circumstances but even then if we have courage we can always go back to set things right.. you'll re-visit all the worlds throughout normal main quest, and i'm positive once you've traversed the entire game you'll end up feeling empowered.. i found it to be delightful, as a mom I'm highly proud of the morals this storyline teaches, i do suggest getting quite a bit farther into the story before you decide :3 hugs for your bravery

no regrets

stormy jen silver

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9783
zuto4011a on Jan 3, 2018 wrote:
if you would like we can meet up in game so i can destroy your beliefs with facts and reality, however the messages boards are not the place for such talks and should be used to DISCUSS THE GAME AND NOT IMAGINARY SLIGHTS.
Robert, it all comes down to perception. These boards are for discussions concerning the game and the player's reaction to the game. That this post was passed through moderation proves that KI is concerned how players perceive their game. It would have been so easy to not pass the post through.
That so many of us have chosen to reply, shows that the player base is open to this kind of discussion. It's not imaginary to theredwallmouse. Alex has a point - it makes people very uncomfortable to confront the historic record of how European/North American governments treated ethnic ( native ) peoples in the past.
If you don't like this post or have nothing to add to the discussion, maybe you should not post. We don't need this post locked because we can't be polite to each other.

Dread Pirate
May 27, 2009
1895
Alex the Pirate on Jan 2, 2018 wrote:
I know what you mean man, it really sucks when we have to actually ACKNOWLEDGE the misjudgement, imprisonment, and innocent slaughter of others. (While some of these posts do seem to have a bit of an SJW vibe to them, I'd say everyone's opinion is worth hearing)
Another acronym we are forced to guess the meaning of...

What is SJW?

It does help a reader when the author refrains from shorthand, but I agree that everyone's opinion is worth hearing, if only to gain a better understanding of the possibly underlying sarcasm that does not always translate through just the written word, but must be gained through knowledge of the poster's tendencies.

Young people and those whose first language is not English do not always pick up on sarcasm.


Admiral
Nov 01, 2013
1413
anecorbie on Jan 1, 2018 wrote:
As a Christian, let me say that I was rather disturbed by the quest called "The Temple Round". For those who haven't done/read this side quest, it requires you to gather Harpy feathers, then visit a few Immortal's shrines and make an offering - this is considered "idolatry" ( worshiping false gods ) and is strictly forbidden, not only to Christians but also Hebrews & Muslims ( if these terms are offensive, it's not intended, because I don't know the current "PC" term for these religions, sorry. ) I came to terms with this quest by asking myself "Do I actually believe I am worshiping real Gods?" The answer, of course, was "No".
The reason I'm mentioning this is that sometimes something could be "read into " a situation without being necessarily true. I believe this may be the situation here. Theredwallmouse has some legitimate concerns stemming from his/her sensitivity to race relations covering aspects of her/his life, I applaud him/her in taking time to write this post and I congratulate KI for passing the post through Moderation.
So, I'll ask you, theredwallmouse, are the "peoples" of P101 really making you uncomfortable to the point of cringing? Making you yell at your computer: "That's not right!"? Or are you perhaps over-thinking a situation?
I find many of the non-white cultures represented in this game depicted with sensitivity ( and yes, humor, but in a kind, gentle way - not harmful or crude ).
Many of us love and respect our companions whether they have "European" accents, speak Troggy or a broken English. I'm sure we wouldn't feel this way about them if they were depicted as brutish savages or lacking any less superiority than us.
Well said.

Bosun
Dec 28, 2012
349
Alex the Pirate on Jan 2, 2018 wrote:
I know what you mean man, it really sucks when we have to actually ACKNOWLEDGE the misjudgement, imprisonment, and innocent slaughter of others. (While some of these posts do seem to have a bit of an SJW vibe to them, I'd say everyone's opinion is worth hearing)
I would like to say something quickly about this comment in case this ever comes up in the future as I don’t like the way I worded it, This comment is SARCASM. I am AGAINST what is said in this comment. (Except the parentheses, the whole reason they’re there is to designate that thought from the sarcastic tone) Aight, carry on with your reading. :)

Bosun
Dec 28, 2012
349
anecorbie on Jan 2, 2018 wrote:
SJW? What's that?
When I did the quests in Krokotopia, I connected the enslaved Manders with "Egyptian" slavery ( and historically, the Israelites weren't the only race to be enslaved by this empire ).
There is an example of slavery in P101 but it's very subtle and connected to a side quest. I don't know if you have a swashbuckler character but Samocles is a gladiator and if you know about Roman history then you know that gladiators were slaves. After we defeat him, he's freed and joins your crew ( if you're a swashbuckler. ) This comes out in the quest dialogue and it's mentioned in his Rogue's Gallery.
In fact, I recommend to Theredwallmouse to view the Rogue's Gallery videos posted on You-Tube. This may give you a new way of looking at these characters.
SJW stands for social justice warrior and it’s come to take the connotation of someone who brings inequalities and race into smal problems. Just as an example, a movie has a cast of 5 white people and one black person. The stereotypical SJW would argue that their should be more POC bc of the amount of white people.

Administrator
Hey all! I just wanted to be sure you knew that we are reading the posts as they come in on this topic, and the discussion has been forwarded to Blind Mew for review (and hopefully future comment).

One side note from me: please be aware of the Message Board Code of Conduct: https://www.pirate101.com/forum/messageBoard/codeOfConduct/free_game

We've had to remove a couple of posts that violated our rules, and the topic is starting to derail in a couple of spots. Please keep these rules in mind when posting, and thank you for your passion as fans of our games and company! We are aware of this topic and the concerns from our fans.

Thanks for your support!

*One-Eyed Jack, Your Pirate101 Community Manager*
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9783
Willowydream on Jan 3, 2018 wrote:
Another acronym we are forced to guess the meaning of...

What is SJW?

It does help a reader when the author refrains from shorthand, but I agree that everyone's opinion is worth hearing, if only to gain a better understanding of the possibly underlying sarcasm that does not always translate through just the written word, but must be gained through knowledge of the poster's tendencies.

Young people and those whose first language is not English do not always pick up on sarcasm.

And someone who believes in the opening statement of that post ( stupid me, I guess ). Because it does make people uncomfortable to acknowledge past injustices and to have them forced onto their insulated lives. So they resort to mocking those who bring these concerns forward.

Dread Pirate
May 27, 2009
1895
Alex the Pirate on Jan 3, 2018 wrote:
SJW stands for social justice warrior and it’s come to take the connotation of someone who brings inequalities and race into smal problems. Just as an example, a movie has a cast of 5 white people and one black person. The stereotypical SJW would argue that their should be more POC bc of the amount of white people.
Ah, I see. I am kind of glad that I did not know what it meant, since it seems to be a derogatory term.

While I don't share the concerns of the original poster regarding racism in the game, I also don't think we should try to dismiss them as unworthy of consideration.


Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
826
anecorbie on Jan 3, 2018 wrote:
Robert, it all comes down to perception. These boards are for discussions concerning the game and the player's reaction to the game. That this post was passed through moderation proves that KI is concerned how players perceive their game. It would have been so easy to not pass the post through.
That so many of us have chosen to reply, shows that the player base is open to this kind of discussion. It's not imaginary to theredwallmouse. Alex has a point - it makes people very uncomfortable to confront the historic record of how European/North American governments treated ethnic ( native ) peoples in the past.
If you don't like this post or have nothing to add to the discussion, maybe you should not post. We don't need this post locked because we can't be polite to each other.
I haven't had any of my posts remove so id say I've been pretty fine with my politeness unlike others, but you're right I don't like this post and have nothing to add, these trains of thought some people have in this thread are beyond my comprehension, like trying to connect the dots a bored 3 year old made, ill be refraining from commenting anymore on this thread or even looking at it, ive already decided to burn some bridges with people here and id prefer to not willingly burn more.

Admiral
Nov 01, 2013
1413
theredwallmouse on Dec 29, 2017 wrote:
Let me cut right to the chase. This is not about the player base being racist, but the game itself.

As I play through the game, I can't help but worry that I'm seeing racial stereotypes against POC everywhere I turn. Especially in the Isle of Doom arc, which is where I'm at. If you're a longtime fan of KI like me, I think it'll be easy to see that KI constructs their world around IRL cultures. Marleybone is Great Britain, Mooshu is Feudal China, Monquista is Spain during the Age of Exploration.

Kingisle pokes fun at all the cultures they portray, such as making the Monquista government vain, greedy and materialistic to reflect Spain's history with wealth. I understand this, Great Britain and Spain are not historically oppressed as far as I'm aware. The Aztecs, the Polynesians, and the Native Americans, though - are.

I have no idea how Cool Ranch represents Native folks yet, as I haven't been there, but I do know I'm not a big fan of how the Troggies and Water Moles, who, if I understand right, are based off aboriginal tribes or the Polynesians. If I'm wrong, they're certainly based off a tropical people. The game constantly calls the Troggies/Water Moles savages, whether jokingly or not, which is a seriously violent stereotype against any tribal people. It's been used by European invaders (like Spaniards) to justify pillaging, enslavement, and other atrocities I don't think are suitable for a 10+ form, and a stigma that has been around for an unfortunately long time. I also can't help but feel as if the Water Moles are being portrayed also as stupid, mostly thanks to their broken, stereotypical caveman-like dialect. Which, like being mindless savages, is another anti-POC stereotype, especially against darker skinned/black people.

But, let me emphasize - I am white. Even if my mind is open, I am surely ignorant to the discrimination and oppression of my fellow human beings simply for their culture/race. I could be overthinking things, and it is NOT my right to say for certain that these are in fact racist tropes, as the cause of my concerns is not my own culture. This is why I'm posting on the forum boards to reach to both staff and other fans alike, so I can play the game and understand what I'm dealing with.

So, to my fellow fans: Do you think Pirate101 does a poor job at representing POC cultures (Chinese, Native American, Australian Aboriginals, Polynesian Peoples, etc)? How do you think Kingsisle should improve on how they incorporate real life cultures into their worlds? I'd especially like to hear the opinions of POC players, especially if you feel like your own culture is being portrayed here.

And to any KI staff reading this, I'd like to know, if it's alright: What kind of research goes into the actual cultures you base your worlds around? Do you try to be mindful of any stigmas surrounding that culture? If my concerns are true, would you be willing to try and fix any harmful stereotypes/scenarios present in the game?
Just so you know, this was from my friend in-game Fearless Griffin Davenport. He wanted to post but he is not a member, so he told me to say this:

"By the way, Theredwallmouse, with you posting this thread, having low experience in the game and being brand new, it gives the appearance that your main goal is not to join, play and have fun, but to stir up trouble and cause division. If this question was asked after you being a Level 70, I'd give it more credence to that sort of question as being a real concern. As for now, just have fun - there's no racial insinuation by Pirate101." - Fearless Griffin Davenport

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9783
zuto4011a on Jan 4, 2018 wrote:
I haven't had any of my posts remove so id say I've been pretty fine with my politeness unlike others, but you're right I don't like this post and have nothing to add, these trains of thought some people have in this thread are beyond my comprehension, like trying to connect the dots a bored 3 year old made, ill be refraining from commenting anymore on this thread or even looking at it, ive already decided to burn some bridges with people here and id prefer to not willingly burn more.
I hope that this isn't aimed at me . I believe that friends can disagree and still remain friends. If you feel otherwise, I understand and I'm sorry.

Petty Officer
Jan 31, 2013
68
The game outlines history, and shows that while it is dark in parts doesn't mean we have to make it dark ourselves. I really like the game, and enjoyed the watermole tribe. However, I don't believe that KI nor Pirate101 is racist. They are simply following what happened in real life at the time frame that the game follows. So we shouldn't be blaming them, when people have always been and always will be racist. It's why you still see it in the news.

Ultimately, I just hope that they don't rewrite the game because someone got upset over it.

Captain
Sep 19, 2012
631
zuto4011a on Jan 4, 2018 wrote:
I haven't had any of my posts remove so id say I've been pretty fine with my politeness unlike others, but you're right I don't like this post and have nothing to add, these trains of thought some people have in this thread are beyond my comprehension, like trying to connect the dots a bored 3 year old made, ill be refraining from commenting anymore on this thread or even looking at it, ive already decided to burn some bridges with people here and id prefer to not willingly burn more.
though you were a bit fierce in your first response, that's to be expected when you feel someone is wrongly accusing or attacking something/someone we love.. please bear in mind hun they haven't gotta far enough yet to see that they're jumping the gun a bit.. and without spoiling it for them, its difficult to respond.. those of us that have completed the game KNOW different, but if nooblets are getting only so far then leaving before they discover the truth, it might be a good thing to discuss on these boards with devs especially, ya? its the first time I've ever seen or even heard of this being a problem at all or ever, i was highly surprised myself tbh.. hugs to you

stormy jen silver

Ensign
Jan 30, 2014
5
Thank you again to everyone engaging respectfully in this discussion. It means a lot. However, I notice that people seem to be consistently misinterpreting why I even brought this to the table, so let me, instead of making giant reply posts, just address it all together. Everything is bolded for emphasis.

  • My intention IS NOT/NEVER WAS/NEVER WILL BE to cause trouble by posting this. I intended to post this only to analyze, learn, discuss, think, and come back from this with a better understanding of not only the intentions and the story of but of my own critical thinking skills and my understanding and sense of empathy for other human beings.
  • I ask so early because I am a casual player, but I want to approach even my casual interests with empathetic criticism. I am literally incapable of finishing lvl 70 magically in a month so I can get the full scoop, but I love this game a lot. It's a comfort. However, looking into the writing raised up questions in me, so that's why I'm here. Looking for answers from those with experience, from those who've been there. I want your input where I can't find it myself because I genuinely don't have the time these days. I am a student here, and you are the teachers. That is why I ask. To learn, to understand, and to maybe give other folks some insight too.
  • I am not trying to sabotage Kingsisle, nor do I think them some nefarious evil hate group trying to put subliminal messages about non-white people into our minds. I never ever thought they had harmful, racist intentions in their hearts. I actually respect Kingsisle a lot. They seem considerate and are willing to listen to feedback, which is more than I can say about a LOT of companies. But even so, no one is perfect. Not me, not you, and not anyone on KI. Even if their game is meant for children, it puts effort into its writing, and as a fully published experience and the fact they are WILLING to listen to criticism, I am trying to consider criticism of the story.

Commodore
Sep 20, 2009
950
Hmm, this is an interesting topic, and something that I've thought about for quite awhile.
See, I'm Metis, a unique blended culture that exists only in Canada, and is a part of our aboriginal, First Nations.
So, here's my thoughts.
I do not think that KI is intentionally being racist in their games. I do not feel any malicious intent on their part. All cultures presented in the game are stereotyped for the purpose of the story, comedy and simplicity. (Imagine what this game would be like if KI dealt with these things honestly and directly?) I don't feel that any particular culture or group of cultures in the game are being more stereotyped than any other culture in the game.
I honestly thing that the minority cultures presented in Pirates, and Wizards are just as stereotyped as the European based cultures.

Pirates is loosely based on the Golden Age of Pirates, roughly covering the years 1650-1730. Peoples perceptions of cultures during those times was vastly different from our perceptions now. In my opinion, KI does a good job of capturing this, of showing the interactions of represented cultures during that time period, while still being a lighthearted family game. That is all that I see KI doing in pirates.

On the other hand, I am uncomfortable with KI including feathered headdresses as Thanksgiving Costumes in Wizards. I haven't played Wiz during Thanksgiving recently I don't know if this is still done. But, in that case headdresses are important ceremonial items, worn only for the most important occasions, not handed out as costumes. I've even had to report players a couple times in wiz for racist remarks related to the headdresses.

So, while I don't think that KI is being intentionally racist, I do disagree with handing out important cultural items as fancy costumes.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9783
CdeWinter on Jan 7, 2018 wrote:
Hmm, this is an interesting topic, and something that I've thought about for quite awhile.
See, I'm Metis, a unique blended culture that exists only in Canada, and is a part of our aboriginal, First Nations.
So, here's my thoughts.
I do not think that KI is intentionally being racist in their games. I do not feel any malicious intent on their part. All cultures presented in the game are stereotyped for the purpose of the story, comedy and simplicity. (Imagine what this game would be like if KI dealt with these things honestly and directly?) I don't feel that any particular culture or group of cultures in the game are being more stereotyped than any other culture in the game.
I honestly thing that the minority cultures presented in Pirates, and Wizards are just as stereotyped as the European based cultures.

Pirates is loosely based on the Golden Age of Pirates, roughly covering the years 1650-1730. Peoples perceptions of cultures during those times was vastly different from our perceptions now. In my opinion, KI does a good job of capturing this, of showing the interactions of represented cultures during that time period, while still being a lighthearted family game. That is all that I see KI doing in pirates.

On the other hand, I am uncomfortable with KI including feathered headdresses as Thanksgiving Costumes in Wizards. I haven't played Wiz during Thanksgiving recently I don't know if this is still done. But, in that case headdresses are important ceremonial items, worn only for the most important occasions, not handed out as costumes. I've even had to report players a couple times in wiz for racist remarks related to the headdresses.

So, while I don't think that KI is being intentionally racist, I do disagree with handing out important cultural items as fancy costumes.
Pilgrim and "Indian" costumes are still part of W101 during Thanksgiving. Cool Ranch is a mish-mash of Native American cultures with Eastern Coast Wigwams, Mohawk & Plains Indian head dresses and the Pacific Coast Totem poles. Witchdoctors are usually given those Head dresses and fringed jackets as drops for their class. I suppose you could argue that these drops represent the pirate's prowess being recognized by the Bison Nation, so that these aren't really costumes.
I think its a good thing that KI designs these clothes for our pirates from different cultures. The players of P101 come from all races and having their culture represented in the game ( the right way ) could be an uplifting experience for them.

Bosun
Dec 28, 2012
349
CdeWinter on Jan 7, 2018 wrote:
Hmm, this is an interesting topic, and something that I've thought about for quite awhile.
See, I'm Metis, a unique blended culture that exists only in Canada, and is a part of our aboriginal, First Nations.
So, here's my thoughts.
I do not think that KI is intentionally being racist in their games. I do not feel any malicious intent on their part. All cultures presented in the game are stereotyped for the purpose of the story, comedy and simplicity. (Imagine what this game would be like if KI dealt with these things honestly and directly?) I don't feel that any particular culture or group of cultures in the game are being more stereotyped than any other culture in the game.
I honestly thing that the minority cultures presented in Pirates, and Wizards are just as stereotyped as the European based cultures.

Pirates is loosely based on the Golden Age of Pirates, roughly covering the years 1650-1730. Peoples perceptions of cultures during those times was vastly different from our perceptions now. In my opinion, KI does a good job of capturing this, of showing the interactions of represented cultures during that time period, while still being a lighthearted family game. That is all that I see KI doing in pirates.

On the other hand, I am uncomfortable with KI including feathered headdresses as Thanksgiving Costumes in Wizards. I haven't played Wiz during Thanksgiving recently I don't know if this is still done. But, in that case headdresses are important ceremonial items, worn only for the most important occasions, not handed out as costumes. I've even had to report players a couple times in wiz for racist remarks related to the headdresses.

So, while I don't think that KI is being intentionally racist, I do disagree with handing out important cultural items as fancy costumes.
I have seen the headdress problem play out in another game actually, so I thought I'd put my experience here. Essentially:
1) Headdresses are released
2) Headdresses are banned bc of racial reasons
3) Supply goes down, demand goes up
4) Now people kill for headdresses bc of how rare they are
A small problem escalates to something larger because of this, so therefore I do not think headdresses should be removed.
(The game I am referencing is Animal Jam if anyone is wondering, I no longer play it but it played a large part in my early childhood)

Pirate Overlord
Mar 10, 2009
6204
theredwallmouse on Jan 6, 2018 wrote:
Thank you again to everyone engaging respectfully in this discussion. It means a lot. However, I notice that people seem to be consistently misinterpreting why I even brought this to the table, so let me, instead of making giant reply posts, just address it all together. Everything is bolded for emphasis.

  • My intention IS NOT/NEVER WAS/NEVER WILL BE to cause trouble by posting this. I intended to post this only to analyze, learn, discuss, think, and come back from this with a better understanding of not only the intentions and the story of but of my own critical thinking skills and my understanding and sense of empathy for other human beings.
  • I ask so early because I am a casual player, but I want to approach even my casual interests with empathetic criticism. I am literally incapable of finishing lvl 70 magically in a month so I can get the full scoop, but I love this game a lot. It's a comfort. However, looking into the writing raised up questions in me, so that's why I'm here. Looking for answers from those with experience, from those who've been there. I want your input where I can't find it myself because I genuinely don't have the time these days. I am a student here, and you are the teachers. That is why I ask. To learn, to understand, and to maybe give other folks some insight too.
  • I am not trying to sabotage Kingsisle, nor do I think them some nefarious evil hate group trying to put subliminal messages about non-white people into our minds. I never ever thought they had harmful, racist intentions in their hearts. I actually respect Kingsisle a lot. They seem considerate and are willing to listen to feedback, which is more than I can say about a LOT of companies. But even so, no one is perfect. Not me, not you, and not anyone on KI. Even if their game is meant for children, it puts effort into its writing, and as a fully published experience and the fact they are WILLING to listen to criticism, I am trying to consider criticism of the story.
Well said.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9783
Think of all the nations/races represented so far in Pirate101. Has anyone now at the max level experienced something "off" in the dialogue or representation of these nations? I can only answer for myself that I have not encountered anything remotely racist or genderist in this game.
All worlds have their foibles and virtues, both genders are shown as capable.
The history shown in this game is fairly accurate without it being a history lesson. Hey. the writers even included the historic revolt by the Indian people ( India, not American ) against the British. They just changed the reason for the revolt into something less violent and more amusing.
I'm looking forward to journeying to Polaris ( a mix of revolutionary France and Russia. ) Darkmoor ( Transylvanian ), Grizzelheim ( Viking culture ) & Krokotopia ( Egyptian ). If they're included in this game.
In W101 Zafaria ( Africa ), & Mirage ( Arabic cultures ) was handled superbly, there is no reason to suspect it will be any different in this game.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9783
theredwallmouse on Jan 6, 2018 wrote:
Thank you again to everyone engaging respectfully in this discussion. It means a lot. However, I notice that people seem to be consistently misinterpreting why I even brought this to the table, so let me, instead of making giant reply posts, just address it all together. Everything is bolded for emphasis.

  • My intention IS NOT/NEVER WAS/NEVER WILL BE to cause trouble by posting this. I intended to post this only to analyze, learn, discuss, think, and come back from this with a better understanding of not only the intentions and the story of but of my own critical thinking skills and my understanding and sense of empathy for other human beings.
  • I ask so early because I am a casual player, but I want to approach even my casual interests with empathetic criticism. I am literally incapable of finishing lvl 70 magically in a month so I can get the full scoop, but I love this game a lot. It's a comfort. However, looking into the writing raised up questions in me, so that's why I'm here. Looking for answers from those with experience, from those who've been there. I want your input where I can't find it myself because I genuinely don't have the time these days. I am a student here, and you are the teachers. That is why I ask. To learn, to understand, and to maybe give other folks some insight too.
  • I am not trying to sabotage Kingsisle, nor do I think them some nefarious evil hate group trying to put subliminal messages about non-white people into our minds. I never ever thought they had harmful, racist intentions in their hearts. I actually respect Kingsisle a lot. They seem considerate and are willing to listen to feedback, which is more than I can say about a LOT of companies. But even so, no one is perfect. Not me, not you, and not anyone on KI. Even if their game is meant for children, it puts effort into its writing, and as a fully published experience and the fact they are WILLING to listen to criticism, I am trying to consider criticism of the story.
This post is going to be full of spoilers, but you have asked for information. I completely understand why you posted, but just remember that dialogue from the Water Moles - KI did not write them as stupid, also they don't grunt or say "ugh". There are Water Moles in the Gold Mine who are against Haku and Mogatu, if you do the side quest to rescue the captured Water Moles, you hear this piece of dialogue, "We shall see the sun again at last! And when our families are free, the traitors will pay!" That's very interesting coming from a ( supposed ) abused, enslaved worker.
In Cool Ranch, the Bison are depicted as rightfully angry that their burial grounds were desecrated ( they had the wrong guy, so we have to rescue him. ) But we do this by finding the true thieves, restoring the sacred charms and re-consecrating their graves. ( They also don't say "ugh". ) We earn their respect.
In MooShu ( Japanese & Chinese cultures ) we're considered "outlanders" and barbarians. One of the side quests even gives us a crash course in Eastern Philosophy.
Marleybone is Great Brittan during the reign of Queen Victoria; we're given the task to find out why the Rajah Kurgha have revolted. This reflects British history in India.
In Aquila, we're also considered barbarians and several comments are passed on our "unfortunate lack of feathers " and being called "rude" ( as being uncultured ), needless to say, I laughed a lot in Aquila.
Valencia is simply Renaissance Italy, with a lot of plotting and courtly skullduggery. There's a lot of humor in Valencia.
I hope these examples will allow you to be more open minded to this great, fun game; and that you'll continue your piratical adventures.

Commodore
Sep 20, 2009
950
anecorbie on Jan 8, 2018 wrote:
This post is going to be full of spoilers, but you have asked for information. I completely understand why you posted, but just remember that dialogue from the Water Moles - KI did not write them as stupid, also they don't grunt or say "ugh". There are Water Moles in the Gold Mine who are against Haku and Mogatu, if you do the side quest to rescue the captured Water Moles, you hear this piece of dialogue, "We shall see the sun again at last! And when our families are free, the traitors will pay!" That's very interesting coming from a ( supposed ) abused, enslaved worker.
In Cool Ranch, the Bison are depicted as rightfully angry that their burial grounds were desecrated ( they had the wrong guy, so we have to rescue him. ) But we do this by finding the true thieves, restoring the sacred charms and re-consecrating their graves. ( They also don't say "ugh". ) We earn their respect.
In MooShu ( Japanese & Chinese cultures ) we're considered "outlanders" and barbarians. One of the side quests even gives us a crash course in Eastern Philosophy.
Marleybone is Great Brittan during the reign of Queen Victoria; we're given the task to find out why the Rajah Kurgha have revolted. This reflects British history in India.
In Aquila, we're also considered barbarians and several comments are passed on our "unfortunate lack of feathers " and being called "rude" ( as being uncultured ), needless to say, I laughed a lot in Aquila.
Valencia is simply Renaissance Italy, with a lot of plotting and courtly skullduggery. There's a lot of humor in Valencia.
I hope these examples will allow you to be more open minded to this great, fun game; and that you'll continue your piratical adventures.
Our trip through Marleybone also showcases how the English viewed and treated the Scottish, Irish, and Welsh at the time through the Radical's and Bonnie Anne's promotion quest.

Commodore
Sep 20, 2009
950
Alex the Pirate on Jan 8, 2018 wrote:
I have seen the headdress problem play out in another game actually, so I thought I'd put my experience here. Essentially:
1) Headdresses are released
2) Headdresses are banned bc of racial reasons
3) Supply goes down, demand goes up
4) Now people kill for headdresses bc of how rare they are
A small problem escalates to something larger because of this, so therefore I do not think headdresses should be removed.
(The game I am referencing is Animal Jam if anyone is wondering, I no longer play it but it played a large part in my early childhood)
But it isn't a small problem, misuse of cultural artifacts is a part of a much larger issue.
Misuse of cultural artifacts and their design, removes the honour, respect, and importance from the item being misused. Misuse of cultural items shows disrespect for not only that particular item, but for the culture and people of that culture as well. And no, people wanting an item because it's rare does not excuse the misuse of the cultural item.

Now, as far as KI goes, the only time I see this happening is when they practically hand out the headdress at Thanksgiving in Wiz. In Pirates, as Anecorbie said, they are given to witchdoctors as rewards for quests, not simply as a fancy holiday costume.