Feedback on changes with "Late Joiners"

1
AuthorMessage
Ensign
Aug 15, 2010
9
i have to say all you did was ruin the battles. on ships and on ground. if i join a fight yes only i join with no companions but after the fight i am froze until they collect the chest and then i am automatically entered in to a new fight (on ground that is). if you dont join a fight just at the right time, you get skipped and no companions. me and my friend was defeating mobs where we want all the mobs as possible but instead we get a messed up fight and one of always gets froze after the fight and entered into another fight. there was nothing wrong with the way it was except for people wanting to do by them selfs. i finished everything you have to offer on the game and only had a problem with the stormzilla and the zhaya quest. other then that the game WAS awesome. PLEASE change it back.

Community Leader
We have these changes now regarding "late joiners" to a battle, however has KI considered the fact that they havent fixed the battle joining process in the first place?

When playing/questing as a group, many many times the game does not pull all players into the battle at the same time, many many times, we get skipped a turn. Wont this new option penalize these players as late joiners, when in effect the only reason they are "late" is because the game didnt work as it should in the first place (failed to give them a battleboard)?

Understand this happens ALL THE TIME!!! When my group of friends battles together, at least 1 of 4, often 2 of the 4 of us are stuck watching the others battle, missing the first turn, when we joined at EXACTLY the same time (actually having been pulled in by the game at times). After reading a post on Central forums, I am deeply concerned about this, as this IMO would seriously BREAK the game, not fix it.

OFxSaint
Silent Sam Stern Lvl50 Witchdoctor

Dr Zeppers (aka Silent Sam Stern)
Piratey parodies I like to make.
I be a crazy pirate for goodness sake!
Artist & Admin of Skull Island TV
Ensign
Jul 12, 2010
1
The game is great,yes it is challenging. Tonight when some one came to help or i went to help
there were no companions with me or them.. I felt penalized for helping or being helped. I will take more enemy. It only means more gold and stuff. Yes takes a little longer. I dont always want to do game alone. It is fun to have others join. I like seeing what the other companions do and how they fight the enemy. Plus if we are on the same quest, why not. Meet new friends and game gets done. Please dont mess with good thing. I like to have companions to help please please reconsider this.
In wizard you can type or click through the text box as if it is transparent. Here i have to close out the text
box in order to click on pirate or anything. Did you know that? Please reconsider changing the game and amount of enemy allowed into fight. Sure dont want to be out numbered.. One time tonight there were 13
against 4 so things need to be tweaked thanks fellow pirate

Administrator
We're interested in hearing more feedback after the recent changes from last night. As I'm sure you know, we patched the game to address some issues with multiplayer combat. There was an oversight that was causing a lot of problems. That should all be fixed now.

Keep the feedback coming, but know that we definitely are not out to break the game! Again, sorry for any inconvenience.

*One-Eyed Jack, Your Pirate101 Community Manager*
Ensign
Sep 19, 2012
6
I personally am glad someone spoke up about these new rules perhaphs we should of spoke up a little sooner. And i do understand the point the rule change to appease those people that found the battle a little long and tedious due to people joining late. And people wanting to solo the whole game or whatever. However i guess they never realized that is they wanted to be alone, the could of simply found a less busy realm down towards the bottom where it was most likely they would be alone.

I do thank the developers for trying to fix the issue, but there defiently needs to be more thought given to these new rules.
Since for one thing they do seem to discourage people from joining, and working together, one of the aspect of the game. Because by joining late you are set at a disadvantage, being placed on the enemy side usually surrounded by the enemy, also while it only add one foe to battle it also limits the amount of loot that is added as you well since you are only gaining the loot from the one additional enemy. Also for a game that seem to rely and encourage people to be using their companions the removal of them as a penalty for coming in late seems quite harsh, to not even gain your First mate which by the game definition is suppose to follow you 100% into every battle.
----continue in next post ---

Ensign
Sep 19, 2012
6
---continued from previous post ----
Also by placing some classes such as the range (musketeers and witchdoctors) directly into the midst of the enemy, this seems a little unfair. as they are not physically strong. i personally tried starting out as a musketeer right after the changes went into effect, and found it exceedingly difficult to join or help anyone out if i did not join right at the beginning, even against the cutthroat sharks, since once i joined in the second round i found myself alone in the center of the cutthroat ship , surrounded by the cutthroats if i was lucky i went first and was able to get one shot off, that i was immediately attacked by the sharks at least 6 or 7 (since the seem to attack the weakest and closest to them and being a musketeer even at full health i usually have least health and i was closest ) and either immediately or right after when the one additional shark that was added for me came at me finishing the job.

Basically i think that a little more thought needs to be placed into this fix, since it really does seem to discourage certain classes from ever wishing to help out, due to the massive disadvantages, joining late. and the little reward in even helping others, due to the fact you are only gaining one extra loot.

Petty Officer
Aug 22, 2010
54
This new battle change is rather boring. When I travel with a group now, only the 1st player to get dragged into battle has a crew; between 3 - 4 companions. The rest of us only have ourselves.

We all still draw our pets, but only the 1st player has any crew members.

Even if all 4 of us trigger the battle, only the player dubbed 1st has any crew members. Players 2, 3, & 4 have no crew at all; not even 1st mates.



I think it needs to go back to the way it was & just put in a (No Port) feature in privacy settings like we have in wizard; b/c really... the only major struggle with late arrivals is when someone ports in to a dungeon boss battle.

I mean sure it's sometimes frustrating when randoms join a street fight or ship battle late, but to me it's... Whatever. The same thing constantly happens in wizard still & I just deal with it. In pirate I just deal with it.

Gunner's Mate
Jan 06, 2011
225
I actually like these new rules. But I don't like the fact that the second turn is considered late. Especially when the other team has the advantage (such as when you have been boarded) and your first turn is considered to be your second. Or when you haven't joined because of a bug.
So I suggest make it happen if you join after the second or third turn, since you wouldn't kill any enemies in the first turn anyway.

Ensign
Sep 19, 2012
4
Just completed a battle on board ship with a friend. My friend could not get the 'X' to board the ship immediately but managed to join the battle during the first round. There were four enemies on board at that point. When the second round started my friend joined the battle, she was without any companions and only her pet but the enemy had doubled to eight.

In my opinion this change regarding "Late Joiners" is definitely not an improvement to the game.

Ensign
Oct 25, 2011
4
I always play in a perfect realm. This happens to me a few times and it is very frustrating. I'm in a battle by myself. I'm down to the very last mob and 2 other players jumped in. They did not ask. They also did not apologize. Their units are located at the edge of the board. Since my units are already in the middle and closer to the mobs, the new mobs target my units first.

KI made the change based on player's request because of above stated problem.

I disagree with the opinion that if I don't want someone to join my battle, I should find a different realm.
1) I can't change realm since I'm already in a battle.
2) I can flee. But, as my example, I'm almost completed the battle and reached the victory condition. By fleeing, I will have to start over.
3) I was there first and I was alone when I start the battle.
4) If I want someone to join my battle, I will be playing in the Avery realm which I'm not.

I do team up with other friends. I never had problem with everyone joining before the battle starts (i.e. before the first time out).

Ensign
Mar 02, 2012
19
I just tried to help a friend. How is this change fair when I go in by myself; with no companions and we end up having 8 mobs to us 4.

He started with 2 companions and himself against 4 monsters; after I join with no companions. the game added 4 more monsters. Is this really how it suppose to work?

Bosun
May 10, 2010
396
Personally, the only time this really matters much, is when you are low level. At higher levels, it is not such a big deal. I do like the fact that the player is placed on the enemy side and not way in the back, but to lose the enemies and companions when you join slightly or largely late?

Nope, not fond of this addition at all.

I can understand you are trying to make people happy and that some people do not always ask before they join a fight, but this is a multiplayer MMO and people need to take that into consideration, it is not a single player game.

Ensign
Sep 20, 2012
2
moocowduck3 on Nov 7, 2012 wrote:
i have to say all you did was ruin the battles. on ships and on ground. if i join a fight yes only i join with no companions but after the fight i am froze until they collect the chest and then i am automatically entered in to a new fight (on ground that is). if you dont join a fight just at the right time, you get skipped and no companions. me and my friend was defeating mobs where we want all the mobs as possible but instead we get a messed up fight and one of always gets froze after the fight and entered into another fight. there was nothing wrong with the way it was except for people wanting to do by them selfs. i finished everything you have to offer on the game and only had a problem with the stormzilla and the zhaya quest. other then that the game WAS awesome. PLEASE change it back.
I would have to agree with moocowduck3 here. I am really not liking the changes that were made. A friend and I were battling ships in Mooshu today when we decided to board and fight on deck. Because we were on our own ships at the time, I ended up having trouble getting the X to be able to board right away. I had to back off a bit and approach the ship again before I got the X, which ended with me joining the battle late. I only had my pet in battle but we ended up with 8 enemys to fight. So far the most enemys I seen in a solo battle was 4-5, depending on how many of your companions came in, which means I brought 3 in when I joined my friend. Like the old saying goes "if it's not broke, don't fix it. KI you really had a great battle sysrem going, but I think you may have broken it. Please consider putting it back the way it was.

Ensign
Mar 31, 2009
6
I joined a fight a few seconds to late and am forced to go through a 10 minute plus fight with 1 person making fights even more boring and longer. With these changes the way they are i have no plans of grouping with anyone other than my boxed healer.

Even as the game was before the change fights went faster because i had a full team to add in aoe damage.

Pros
Someone comes in at the end of the fight at most you get one add

Cons
Longer fights if you join from the start
Not much the person that joins after the first round can do through the whole fight
Makes people want to wait till the fight is almost over to join sense they get full loot and quest updates for doing nothing.

This is a very bad fix with little testing. A change this major before being added to live needs way more testing.

My suggestion 2 ways to fix make the changes happen after 5 to 8 turns or Make it happen after a set amount of Bad guys die.

Ensign
May 29, 2012
2
I like the idea of new joiners entering on the other side of the ship or in the midst of the battle field. Before the change late joiners received far less damage and from my experience killed fewer enemies, and still received a large portion of the booty. I don't mind having another ship join the battle with companions but over that, NO, just the captain is enough for the third or fourth player. Group players need to keep in mind that if the first player who is not a member or friend has defeated a ship, one new ship joining is fine, but 3-4 more ships, come on give the first player a break. Defeat your own ship if you have a group of 3 or more!
I suppose it would be to complicated, but if a group of players could somehow join a special group play "club" that would allow them to play with the old rules ( all companions and however many players they want) as long as they are in their "club", but follow the new rules if they join a battle with someone who is not in their "club". That way friends could have as many multi-player battles they want.

Administrator
LilKittra on Nov 8, 2012 wrote:
I just tried to help a friend. How is this change fair when I go in by myself; with no companions and we end up having 8 mobs to us 4.

He started with 2 companions and himself against 4 monsters; after I join with no companions. the game added 4 more monsters. Is this really how it suppose to work?
We've been able to track down the times that multiple enemies spawn incorrectly during combat. The majority of problems happen while battling during broadside combat and when others are nearby with ships. Unfortunately if an enemy ship boards a player's ship after they've been brought below 1/2 health and another player joins the combat during that initial round, you will get more enemies than intended.

Until we can get this issue fixed, here's a couple of suggestions to avoid this happening (realizing this is not ideal)

1. Don’t allow enemies to board you if friends are on your ship. Keep your ship health up, or board enemy vessels before they board you.
2. If you see another player get boarded, don’t immediately join the combat. Wait until the enemies have moved, then join, and you’ll only bring one enemy with you.

Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks for the feedback!

*One-Eyed Jack, Your Pirate101 Community Manager*
Ensign
Jun 23, 2010
12
The three main complaints I have seen are people not asking to join battles, people wanting to battle alone and the extra time added to battles by late joiners. People not asking is a manners thing, KI can't control or dictate those. Realm hopping can alleviate a soloists concerns. The time issue was resolved by the speeding up of many of the battle animations.

I don't like that late joiners are penalized by being put in alone and amongst the NPCs. I would much prefer the late joiner drawing argo from the NPCs they add (as is currently in place), being placed at the very front players side of battleboard, getting their first mate and adding 2 new NPCs. The current system penalizes people porting in to help friends late in a battle. Especially if they are the same level or slightly below the level of their friend.

Battle mechanics already in place eased many of my concerns from late joiners experiences in Wizzy. If I die and my companions die as long as the battle is finished I finish my quest and get extra loot. Unlike Wizzy if I die I have to do it again. If someone joins and flees their NPCs go too. Unlike Wizzy where they stay.

I hope KI will modify this. I do appreciate and realize they are listening to and trying to satisfy their players. Minor tweaks could have resolved the bulk of the issues. Megan

Petty Officer
Feb 24, 2012
98
the change is way bad!
now people jump into battles and dont even cast a spell, they just sit there and wait to collect the gold talk about piracy huh?

or they hang on side lines, waiting for the last kill and just do nothing, they dont even chat, i really dont want to share any gold or collection with these scurvy dogs

anyway, for me the game is now completely boring, i will solo about and not even join calls for help

i used to enjoy the madness when someone joined or i went to help, i didnt care if was my last hit, at least more enemies joined in and i had my companions and theirs to plan out strategy for the kills and how to stay alive

KI you need to give your heads a shake and let the game be the challenge it was, for the cry baby pirates out there, go play solitaire, if you dont have time for a battle, don't play

Ensign
Sep 19, 2012
6
wiztank on Nov 8, 2012 wrote:
I always play in a perfect realm. This happens to me a few times and it is very frustrating. I'm in a battle by myself. I'm down to the very last mob and 2 other players jumped in. They did not ask. They also did not apologize. Their units are located at the edge of the board. Since my units are already in the middle and closer to the mobs, the new mobs target my units first.

KI made the change based on player's request because of above stated problem.

I disagree with the opinion that if I don't want someone to join my battle, I should find a different realm.
1) I can't change realm since I'm already in a battle.
2) I can flee. But, as my example, I'm almost completed the battle and reached the victory condition. By fleeing, I will have to start over.
3) I was there first and I was alone when I start the battle.
4) If I want someone to join my battle, I will be playing in the Avery realm which I'm not.

I do team up with other friends. I never had problem with everyone joining before the battle starts (i.e. before the first time out).
i am sorry to any player i have offended by my opinion, that people should move to a lower less busy realm if they wanted to be alone. Since i do know it is quite hard to be totally alone in a Massively Multi-player Online gaming environment, but i am also bother on the other side by the people that as in your example wiztank believe that you have some native right not to share the environment with others. As you mention " they did not ask " or " apologize ". Maybe i was unclear in my opinion but i do not think that we should have to " ask for permission to join " other people, since really i have very rarely seen people ask me for my permission.

but i think the main point is that these fixes to the battle system do not fix the main problem, which seemed to be that people did not want others to be able to join them randomly, towards the end of a battle. And i do think that these penalties at least applied on the second round of combat are to harsh to most players. And they are even more unfair to range players which do not have close in combat abilities.

Further to address the other post that i was reading, about it only being harsh while players are a lower level, this really not fair either, since if i had not played previously, and had first started out as a ranged character, i could see how people could become frustrated by constantly dying and never wish to get to a higher level due to these rules.

i do think that something that might work better is if it was possible to apply the rules, more as a limiting factor than really a penalty, maybe waiting till the 3rd or 4th round of combat to start the application and than apply them in a more tiered way as combat progress into further rounds which should solve at least the problem that people do experience sometimes of joining in the first round and being moved to the second or third round due to connection issues or lag or etc.
example
players join on round 1-3 the normal old rules apply
players join on round 4-6 player and first mate only joins and appropriate enemies
players join on round 7+ player only joins and one addition enemy
that way it would slowly grow more harsh for joining later and yet still give people a chance to participate and contribute to the battle as well as address the concern where players thought it unfair that people could sort of swoop in at the end of the battle.

As to friends joining you they do have the same option already,as in wizard to turn your teleports off under options -> privacy -> friend teleports block .

But i think the main problem was with random people joining a battle late, though that will still always remain a problem to some in a massive multi-player environment. personally i do not see it as a problem to fight a few extra enemies with the help of someone that might in time become a new friend, but than i do see the battle as part of the experience of the world.

Ensign
Dec 27, 2008
13
The adjustments made for late joiners can not be considered a good move. What has been done more or less makes it where you don't want anyone to join your fights. It becomes more of a disadvantage where anyone jumping in later without having any companions helping in the fight.

Although at times it can be annoying when you get others jumping in your fight, it really isn't that big of deal. The way I always looked at it was "more enemies, more loot". I think it would be in the best interest of the game to revert back to the way it was.

Bosun
Aug 21, 2009
358
moocowduck3 on Nov 7, 2012 wrote:
i have to say all you did was ruin the battles. on ships and on ground. if i join a fight yes only i join with no companions but after the fight i am froze until they collect the chest and then i am automatically entered in to a new fight (on ground that is). if you dont join a fight just at the right time, you get skipped and no companions. me and my friend was defeating mobs where we want all the mobs as possible but instead we get a messed up fight and one of always gets froze after the fight and entered into another fight. there was nothing wrong with the way it was except for people wanting to do by them selfs. i finished everything you have to offer on the game and only had a problem with the stormzilla and the zhaya quest. other then that the game WAS awesome. PLEASE change it back.
I concur, it needs changed back. Players are reporting all sorts of bugs with the change over and no one seems to like the new system, maybe the low level players who are stuck in the starter area likes it but I think few others do. If people want to play a game where others don't join in then perhaps online games aren't for them and they should stick to play stations. Used to be fun to play with others in this game, now it simply isn't. Last fight I joined in I didn't have minions and half the creatures on the board we were fighting against were greyed out so I couldn't even target them. The larger battles with more players allowed me to use my talents more effectively as I could target groups so much easier. I hate the change. I enjoyed the larger fights and coming to aid those that sent please help requests.

Bosun
Aug 21, 2009
358
Robert Quick on Nov 8, 2012 wrote:
This new battle change is rather boring. When I travel with a group now, only the 1st player to get dragged into battle has a crew; between 3 - 4 companions. The rest of us only have ourselves.

We all still draw our pets, but only the 1st player has any crew members.

Even if all 4 of us trigger the battle, only the player dubbed 1st has any crew members. Players 2, 3, & 4 have no crew at all; not even 1st mates.



I think it needs to go back to the way it was & just put in a (No Port) feature in privacy settings like we have in wizard; b/c really... the only major struggle with late arrivals is when someone ports in to a dungeon boss battle.

I mean sure it's sometimes frustrating when randoms join a street fight or ship battle late, but to me it's... Whatever. The same thing constantly happens in wizard still & I just deal with it. In pirate I just deal with it.
I always felt random joining was a pirate like thing to do. I mean we are pirates, we are supposed to join at the most advantagious point for ourselves, so what if others may at times dislike it we are pirates they aren't supposed to like pirates, lol. Also, there wasn't really a problem to begin with on late joins as the people who joined my fight would often ask if they should leave as when they do they remove all the opponents they just added with them. At upper levels though, added opponents don't take that long to overcome and usually you are glad for the company and for the increased drops and for the extra count towards completing your quests of defeat X many of whatever needs defeating.

Lieutenant
Jun 16, 2009
133
I really appriciate these changes. I hate it when someone joins at the last minute and gets you killed or streches the battle out. I do understand the concerns with the new rules though. Perhaps it might be better to give the first player the option to allow others to join if they want. Something like that might be the best compromise.

Captain
Feb 27, 2009
505
I don't like it one bit. No fair to the other pirate's after round 1. You should just let them to at least have there first mate and I thought this was a family game. Maybe one of your friends want to join and what that get? No companion? I think friends helping other's should get the normal amount of companions. 3 or 4.
Jacob Freeman lvl 11

Ensign
Nov 24, 2009
1
This new update has gone totally wrong. The idea behind it was good. But it does not work the way it says it is suppose to. For instance almost everytime someone joins late its not just 1 monster that joins. My friends and I have had various amounts of monsters join. Sometimes as many as 5 to 1 person joining!! With no companions to help it just makes it harder for the first person in the battle NOT BETTER. I usually don't rant about changes, understanding that the kinks are still getting worked out, but please KI, Fix this to do what it was suppose to do or change it back.

Thank you and I hope something is done soon.

1