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Moo Manchu robe

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AuthorMessage
Lieutenant
Jun 08, 2009
126
Seems what mostly everyone has problems with is the vicious charge gap close + accuracy reduction it's gotten to the point that even swashbucklers and Buccaneers are using it x_x question ratbeard I know that you want the item to stay relevant but what for play-style was it originally intended for? The Soldiers provide pressure, accuracy reduction, offense, defensive and damage all at once unlike other items which would say only give fortress or assassin's strike those items are clearly either defensive or offensive if the robe continues to do all those things won't it always be a clear cut above the rest and continue to be the most used item? we certainly don't want the item to be useless but neither do want to be forced to use it to stay relevant so to whoever designed it what strategy was it made for primiarly and can we focus on making that part of it stronger and tonine down the area it wasn't meant for? like was it offensive? than can you remove hold the line 3 or levy's call or was it defensive and can we remove brutal charge and bladestorm? or was it actually meant to be all those things cause if it was then uh that pretty much makes every other robe in the game irrelevant?
Ensign
Apr 28, 2010
13
How about swapping out Vicious Charge for Mighty Charge? Then there won't be an accuracy reduction but they still get a guaranteed hit and they still get to move across the board.
Developer
Sunny Wolf on Aug 7, 2015 wrote:
Seems what mostly everyone has problems with is the vicious charge gap close + accuracy reduction it's gotten to the point that even swashbucklers and Buccaneers are using it x_x question ratbeard I know that you want the item to stay relevant but what for play-style was it originally intended for? The Soldiers provide pressure, accuracy reduction, offense, defensive and damage all at once unlike other items which would say only give fortress or assassin's strike those items are clearly either defensive or offensive if the robe continues to do all those things won't it always be a clear cut above the rest and continue to be the most used item? we certainly don't want the item to be useless but neither do want to be forced to use it to stay relevant so to whoever designed it what strategy was it made for primiarly and can we focus on making that part of it stronger and tonine down the area it wasn't meant for? like was it offensive? than can you remove hold the line 3 or levy's call or was it defensive and can we remove brutal charge and bladestorm? or was it actually meant to be all those things cause if it was then uh that pretty much makes every other robe in the game irrelevant?
Well, Moo Manchu designed it, obviously, and it works very well for his purposes!
Lieutenant
Jun 08, 2009
126
Ratbeard on Aug 7, 2015 wrote:
Well, Moo Manchu designed it, obviously, and it works very well for his purposes!
Crushing pirates hopes and dreams? Yes yes it does
Lieutenant
Jun 08, 2009
126
In all seriousness however /: when do you suppose you will be able to tone down the robe with your proposed ideas?
Lieutenant
Aug 29, 2008
146
Actually I love the two ideas being thrown around: Replace Vicious charge with either Mighty Charge (Warriors can move across the board but not reduce) OR replace it with Buccaneer Smash (keeping the reduce, only 3 turns and stops the charge). So is a bit of one or the other, either charge across board or keep the reduce (albeit a smaller 3 turn one).
Developer
Sunny Wolf on Aug 7, 2015 wrote:
In all seriousness however /: when do you suppose you will be able to tone down the robe with your proposed ideas?
My first proposed fix is ready and waiting-- it's up to Falmea now.
Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
163
Ratbeard on Aug 6, 2015 wrote:
This is what I propose:

1) Levi Call cannot be activated until the Warrior drops below 75% health. This should prevent them all from spamming Levi on turn 1; in fact, once they are out in the mix of combat, the AI very well may prioritize other actions over LC anyway. (I would still be careful with Hide, though, because if they have a better option than wandering off, they'll use it...)

2) Vicious Charge has only a 50% chance (for each Warrior) of appearing in its deck when summoned. This would apply to all 9 warriors individually, so there's still a good chance you'll see about half of them charging.

Note that these changes would apply to PvP only (enabled by giving the Warriors a "PvP only" copy of each power that bears the listed restrictions, while in PvE they retain all of their former powers.)
I love this idea completely BUT another option would be to just remove vicious charge from the warrior's all together. Its not like the Vicious Charges are what make them OP its the Combo of HtL 3, Cheap Shot, and Vicious Charge which does the trick. I mean ti just deals so much damage yet if we take away Vicious Charge completely they can still be used defensively for HtL 3 to give Privy/Witch a way to stop r1 Highland vs Buck and 3x3 summons do block swash's anyway so not a big deal there. Just an idea, if not I like the 2 ideas here if they were applied it would work out well I bet.
Ensign
Apr 11, 2013
4
How about fog - what about fog? Swashbucklers are out of control?! Privy is absolutely worthless in PVP. I would love to see win loss statistics for character classes. Terrible, just terrible development team. You should be ashamed that you published this "balanced" system.
Ensign
Jul 20, 2009
7
Hello all! Though being a beta player, I've only recently delved into PvP, and while I have an impressive gear setup and a so far undefeated strategy (almost), my only two losses have been to the robe users. From what I gathered, even as a musketeer there is a problem. As they go over the bombs, fire is drawn to them, instead of the attacking team. Also as a musketeer, I have very thin personal defenses. A nausica, Goro, Quint, or any Buccaneer could easily run around the bombs and destroy the team. So yes, it needs to be changed. My initial thought is to remove the charge completely, or dumb it down to a mighty charge instead. The accuracy debuff is far too much for any class to do anything about. I personally have not found a single efficient counter (or in better terms 'lasso') to the warriors. This is just my two cents, but if high level pvp is to be a fairly balanced and fun part of the game, this power needs to be heavily modified. Thanks for reading and trying to fix the problems!

-Hammer out.
Lieutenant
Jun 08, 2009
126
Ratbeard on Aug 7, 2015 wrote:
My first proposed fix is ready and waiting-- it's up to Falmea now.
Awesome!! Thanks Ratbeard
Lieutenant
Jun 08, 2009
126
RampantBehavior4U on Aug 8, 2015 wrote:
How about fog - what about fog? Swashbucklers are out of control?! Privy is absolutely worthless in PVP. I would love to see win loss statistics for character classes. Terrible, just terrible development team. You should be ashamed that you published this "balanced" system.
Privates are not worthless I am nearly at rank 200 although its not easy my matches tend to be very hard fought privateers are far from underpowered the skill gap to use them has just gotten harder since they require a very very patient defensive strategy
Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
163
RampantBehavior4U on Aug 8, 2015 wrote:
How about fog - what about fog? Swashbucklers are out of control?! Privy is absolutely worthless in PVP. I would love to see win loss statistics for character classes. Terrible, just terrible development team. You should be ashamed that you published this "balanced" system.
Actually my Privy is Paragon 320 atm 24-3 so ya...... I don't think Fog is that big of a problem now but it is very powerful, I found for even Buck they can just bring the rank team of El Toro Pete Goro (El Toro with first strike 3 woot, it legit makes him a companion you can just ignore protecting lol because Nausica wont burst chain and kill him even! XD)

Privy with Moo Robe/Staff thou don't get me started..... Now that is truly OP
Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
838
TechnomagePvP on Aug 9, 2015 wrote:
Actually my Privy is Paragon 320 atm 24-3 so ya...... I don't think Fog is that big of a problem now but it is very powerful, I found for even Buck they can just bring the rank team of El Toro Pete Goro (El Toro with first strike 3 woot, it legit makes him a companion you can just ignore protecting lol because Nausica wont burst chain and kill him even! XD)

Privy with Moo Robe/Staff thou don't get me started..... Now that is truly OP
without that gear though would privateers actually be that good? i'd say no although ive found no staff privy works better
Ensign
Oct 22, 2012
18
Every 1v1 loss was to a Moo Robe user. This robe is so overpowered with it's summons and charges so I'm on the side of a slight nerf as ratbeard mentioned.
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
zuto4011a on Aug 10, 2015 wrote:
without that gear though would privateers actually be that good? i'd say no although ive found no staff privy works better
Ok, first let me say I've haven't been doing much of the 1v1 PVP I've had maybe three or four of those compared to six of the Battle Royale. But in the 1v1, I've been trying to use Moo's Robes - results: first 2 1v1 the power didn't show AT ALL! Won one, lost one. Next fight the opponent ( swashbuckler in black fog ) fled when I placed the warriors ( they showed up on turn three ). A win by default, ugh. Next bout was against another SB in BF but he stayed and eventually won.
So are the terror-cotta really op? Or has everyone been installing panic over this gear? Or do I just stink at PVP? ( Don't answer that one, lol ).
Going to try a few more 1v1 with the robes, but now I'm not entirely sure if they're all that useful.
Perhaps we should be concentrating on how to beat the cotta?
Ensign
Mar 18, 2015
35
TechnomagePvP on Aug 9, 2015 wrote:
Actually my Privy is Paragon 320 atm 24-3 so ya...... I don't think Fog is that big of a problem now but it is very powerful, I found for even Buck they can just bring the rank team of El Toro Pete Goro (El Toro with first strike 3 woot, it legit makes him a companion you can just ignore protecting lol because Nausica wont burst chain and kill him even! XD)

Privy with Moo Robe/Staff thou don't get me started..... Now that is truly OP
I would love to see some Privateer Ranked PVP on your channel for a change :D
Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Ratbeard on Aug 5, 2015 wrote:
*Generally* speaking you can be confident that if something is on the banned list, it is because the power is not working as intended in the PvP format. The hat and boots were banned because they did not work as intended in the 4-for-all. Their power was amplified by the format and the crowded board.

The robe was never under consideration for banning. It works as intended. It's powerful, and it's available to everyone. Is it a must have item? That's for the players to decide. An item's popularity is not necessarily an indication of a problem. If popularity were a criteria for moving to the banned list, then that would simply mean that whatever the #2 "awesome item" is moves into the #1 spot.

The ban list would become a treadmill, and that's not what we want. Ideally, powers get fixed and come OFF the ban list.

Balance issues are better addressed through balancing than banning. You can think of that as a "goal" more than a "policy" but that's the gist.
Ratbeard, this has nothing to do with how popular the item is, and it almost has turned into a must have item when in the upper ranks in PvP which is the equivalent of grueling hours of farming a tower just to get to one battle. And not everyone's luck always works out perfectly when farming so its not "available to everyone"
Lieutenant
Jun 08, 2009
126
What exactly will be done with the item ratbeard? Would it not be easier to just replace the brutal charge with mighty charge? At least then it would be possible to hit them and get chains going instead of missing for a couple of turns.. On top of that it seems everyone I play against now uses the robe so its in fact a staple item in every pirate Class gear set up if you want to have the highest chances of winning I'm not saying its not counterable nor impossible to beat but its powerful enough to give you a huge advantage thay your chances of winning with it on Any class make it too oppressive. If something isn't done soon Pirate101s PvP season 1 will be remembered as the Moo robe era
Developer
Sunny Wolf on Aug 25, 2015 wrote:
What exactly will be done with the item ratbeard? Would it not be easier to just replace the brutal charge with mighty charge? At least then it would be possible to hit them and get chains going instead of missing for a couple of turns.. On top of that it seems everyone I play against now uses the robe so its in fact a staple item in every pirate Class gear set up if you want to have the highest chances of winning I'm not saying its not counterable nor impossible to beat but its powerful enough to give you a huge advantage thay your chances of winning with it on Any class make it too oppressive. If something isn't done soon Pirate101s PvP season 1 will be remembered as the Moo robe era
What exactly will be done with the item ratbeard?

Exactly what has been proposed: Restrict the use of Leviathan's Call, and reduce the availability of Vicious Charge. When those changes are successfully implemented, if the robe persists as a problem, we'll take another look.

If something isn't done soon Pirate101s PvP season 1 will be remembered as the Moo robe era

It's up there vying for 1st place with "The Black Fog Era," although frankly I think it's a matter of time before people realize it's probably, "The Buccaneer Era."

I doubt that any top-tier Buccaneer can be beaten consistently-- or, at least, I suspect it will be so before too much longer.
Lieutenant
Jun 08, 2009
126
Ratbeard on Aug 25, 2015 wrote:
What exactly will be done with the item ratbeard?

Exactly what has been proposed: Restrict the use of Leviathan's Call, and reduce the availability of Vicious Charge. When those changes are successfully implemented, if the robe persists as a problem, we'll take another look.

If something isn't done soon Pirate101s PvP season 1 will be remembered as the Moo robe era

It's up there vying for 1st place with "The Black Fog Era," although frankly I think it's a matter of time before people realize it's probably, "The Buccaneer Era."

I doubt that any top-tier Buccaneer can be beaten consistently-- or, at least, I suspect it will be so before too much longer.
Ive personally always found them able to destroy me but I always assumed that's because I'm a privateer and I have very little offense?.. So are buccaneers crushing musketeers and swashes in the same manner?..
Gunner's Mate
Dec 16, 2009
212
Ratbeard on Aug 25, 2015 wrote:
What exactly will be done with the item ratbeard?

Exactly what has been proposed: Restrict the use of Leviathan's Call, and reduce the availability of Vicious Charge. When those changes are successfully implemented, if the robe persists as a problem, we'll take another look.

If something isn't done soon Pirate101s PvP season 1 will be remembered as the Moo robe era

It's up there vying for 1st place with "The Black Fog Era," although frankly I think it's a matter of time before people realize it's probably, "The Buccaneer Era."

I doubt that any top-tier Buccaneer can be beaten consistently-- or, at least, I suspect it will be so before too much longer.
Amen to that Ratbeard....there is a reason I speed lvled my bucc to 65 and am now learning the best tactics to utilize with him....
Lieutenant
May 09, 2013
157
Ratbeard on Aug 25, 2015 wrote:
What exactly will be done with the item ratbeard?

Exactly what has been proposed: Restrict the use of Leviathan's Call, and reduce the availability of Vicious Charge. When those changes are successfully implemented, if the robe persists as a problem, we'll take another look.

If something isn't done soon Pirate101s PvP season 1 will be remembered as the Moo robe era

It's up there vying for 1st place with "The Black Fog Era," although frankly I think it's a matter of time before people realize it's probably, "The Buccaneer Era."

I doubt that any top-tier Buccaneer can be beaten consistently-- or, at least, I suspect it will be so before too much longer.
Buccaneers are a problem, but that's just because the board is too small. Make a bigger board, and just wait a bit for people to start using HtL3 or RB3 to stop early charges.
Ensign
Dec 14, 2013
14
I have a few thoughts on this.

1 KI is doing a great job balancing the game when you consider all they are trying to do.

2 I agree the robe gives any player an advantage over any other skill they could have, hence making it "must have".

3 As far as suggested changes, all you can do is try them and see what happens and we (the player) must be patient as long as they (KI) are trying to get it balanced.

4 I do not like the moo robe mainly for other reasons. I do not like the fact that it leaves so much of the game up to an AI. To me the game is supposed to be a match of two players matching wit, and when you add so much AI (Artificial intelligence) it places an element to the game that reduces gaming quality greatly in my opinion (But that is just me I know). I know PVE is all about facing AI, but would personally rather PVP was more about Player vs Player. I think excessive AI summons lower personal player skill in determining the outcome of a given match.

5 Another thing I really do not like about the robe is having to wait so long betwen turns watching the AI play

 For now I will sit back and wait to see what happens with hope that this aspect of the game is improved and I will add ki usually does a decent job. Personally, I cannot imagine trying to balance those things all out without running into unwanted side effects that or worse than what we have now.
Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Ratbeard on Aug 25, 2015 wrote:
What exactly will be done with the item ratbeard?

Exactly what has been proposed: Restrict the use of Leviathan's Call, and reduce the availability of Vicious Charge. When those changes are successfully implemented, if the robe persists as a problem, we'll take another look.

If something isn't done soon Pirate101s PvP season 1 will be remembered as the Moo robe era

It's up there vying for 1st place with "The Black Fog Era," although frankly I think it's a matter of time before people realize it's probably, "The Buccaneer Era."

I doubt that any top-tier Buccaneer can be beaten consistently-- or, at least, I suspect it will be so before too much longer.
Sure, Buccaneers are strong but its not a "Buccaneers era" if you're going to tell me about how chains are op and what not, then look at musketeers, they can consistently burst fire spam with overwatch 3 on all their companions, doing the same amount as buccaneers. And believe me, I got to champion on buccaneer and the classes you face are buccaneers within the veteran-hero range then it turns into all swashbucklers when going above that, maybe a few privateers here and there
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