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Turning Into Wizard101

AuthorMessage
Gunner's Mate
Aug 08, 2010
288
I'm genuinely afraid that Pirate101 is turning into another Wizard101... by that I mean that the negative aspects of Wizard101, the farming, the imbalances, the tediousness and all other aspects are coming to this game. I'll split my concerns into 3 major points.

1. Gear
If you've played or have seen videos of Wizard101, you'd know that there's a lot of work involved in making a Wizard at least "decent" in the high end of PvP. Farming for gear via morganthe, waterworks, you name it. These processes take a very long time to complete and can be very frustrating when you don't get the drop that you need to succeed (mainly in PvP terms.)
Pirate101, with the last Moo Manchu update and with what I've seen on test realm, is slowly turning into this.
The Moo Manchu dungeon can be very frustrating with it's length of roughly 2 hours on average. Fortunately the staff implemented the group plunder chests which give a higher chance of gaining loot, but even so, it's a step closer to the endless farming of Wizard101.

2. Pets
The second point i'd like to make are the pets. I remember when pets were virtually useless, only good for doing small amounts of damage. The buff we got about a year ago improved their usability, but also plunged Pirate101 further down the hole of farming. Now, if you want to truly succeed in Pirate101 PvP there are standards for what powers your pet needs to have. In Wizard101, "Staple Talents" are Proof/Defy and any Heal (Spritely, etc). In Pirate101, this converts into Elusive, Tide, and/or a Heal/Defense power. In order to gain a perfect pet with everything you need, you have to spend months on hatching and training your pets. Alternatively, you can take a credit card and blow tons to speed it up. Obviously there's a literal cost to this method, so it's very likely that you'll spend months being frustrated with the RNG which causes your pets to not get the talents you want on them.
My point isn't that everything should be easy. In fact, i think the pet system is okay because the small talents that you do gain don't majorly impact your performance in PvP/E, but my point is that things could possibly go too far. As more levels are added and more pet talents unlocked, the game could turn into another Wizard situation.

3. Class Balance
This is mainly subjective (then again all my other points are lol). It's practically impossible to have perfectly balanced classes, and with each addition the game verges on the brink of peace to imbalance. So unlike Wizard101, I would prefer it if after the El Dorado storyline is complete, Pirate101 didn't bring in another unforseen threat and would end the main story. (Around level 100 or so?) It's not because i Hate pirate101 and don't want it to continue, it's just that after a certain point it won't be possible to maintain any sort of class balance.

I could be being too cynical though.

Merciless Jean Percy, 65
Merciless Cass Spencer, 65
Merciless Quinn Quincy, 65
Merciless Jack Ramsey, 65


Ensign
Apr 07, 2011
49
I think I like how Wizard101 does it's work more then Pirate101 actually.

Pirate101 seems less organized to me for some reason, Bouncing from place to place without a main hub in any of the worlds.

Gunner's Mate
Dec 26, 2013
214
DeathWiz101378 on Jun 8, 2016 wrote:
I'm genuinely afraid that Pirate101 is turning into another Wizard101... by that I mean that the negative aspects of Wizard101, the farming, the imbalances, the tediousness and all other aspects are coming to this game. I'll split my concerns into 3 major points.

1. Gear
If you've played or have seen videos of Wizard101, you'd know that there's a lot of work involved in making a Wizard at least "decent" in the high end of PvP. Farming for gear via morganthe, waterworks, you name it. These processes take a very long time to complete and can be very frustrating when you don't get the drop that you need to succeed (mainly in PvP terms.)
Pirate101, with the last Moo Manchu update and with what I've seen on test realm, is slowly turning into this.
The Moo Manchu dungeon can be very frustrating with it's length of roughly 2 hours on average. Fortunately the staff implemented the group plunder chests which give a higher chance of gaining loot, but even so, it's a step closer to the endless farming of Wizard101.

2. Pets
The second point i'd like to make are the pets. I remember when pets were virtually useless, only good for doing small amounts of damage. The buff we got about a year ago improved their usability, but also plunged Pirate101 further down the hole of farming. Now, if you want to truly succeed in Pirate101 PvP there are standards for what powers your pet needs to have. In Wizard101, "Staple Talents" are Proof/Defy and any Heal (Spritely, etc). In Pirate101, this converts into Elusive, Tide, and/or a Heal/Defense power. In order to gain a perfect pet with everything you need, you have to spend months on hatching and training your pets. Alternatively, you can take a credit card and blow tons to speed it up. Obviously there's a literal cost to this method, so it's very likely that you'll spend months being frustrated with the RNG which causes your pets to not get the talents you want on them.
My point isn't that everything should be easy. In fact, i think the pet system is okay because the small talents that you do gain don't majorly impact your performance in PvP/E, but my point is that things could possibly go too far. As more levels are added and more pet talents unlocked, the game could turn into another Wizard situation.

3. Class Balance
This is mainly subjective (then again all my other points are lol). It's practically impossible to have perfectly balanced classes, and with each addition the game verges on the brink of peace to imbalance. So unlike Wizard101, I would prefer it if after the El Dorado storyline is complete, Pirate101 didn't bring in another unforseen threat and would end the main story. (Around level 100 or so?) It's not because i Hate pirate101 and don't want it to continue, it's just that after a certain point it won't be possible to maintain any sort of class balance.

I could be being too cynical though.

Merciless Jean Percy, 65
Merciless Cass Spencer, 65
Merciless Quinn Quincy, 65
Merciless Jack Ramsey, 65

Good points but by your own definition weighted by your propensity for PvP. From that perspective I can really have no opinion because I've never tried P101 PvP. From a PvE perspective however I can weigh in...

Gear: My opinion is that in both games gear is important but having the best gear is not absolutely necessary. If you take a look at the W101 message boards you'll see volumes of posts regarding where to find this and who to farm to get that. Looking at the P101 forum the numbers of similar posts pale in comparison. There aren't a lot of instances in P101 that compare to W101s Waterworks and Blackmoor for instance. These places in W101 are the benchmarks for gear. Most any reference you see regarding gear will relate to one of these... "I went all the way through Avalon with Waterworks gear" is an example. We really have only the Mooshu Tower and even then I question whether the drops are worth the effort.

Pets: This is almost like comparing Apples to Helicopters. The way pets work in both games is so completely different that any comparison is a stretch. W101 pets are always there but only rarely contribute anything worthwhile... P101 pets sometimes show up but when they do they can make a substantial difference in the outcome of a battle.

Class Balance: This one is tough and like you mention it's highly subjective. It is practically impossible to balance the classes equally. But that's part of the charm of both games. Read posts about the Balance school in W101... in the same post you'll see equal numbers of people claiming it's overpowered and underpowered. So who's correct? Everyone! It's all relevant to whom you're fighting, your deck arrangement and of course... the luck of the draw. The same can be said for most classes in P101. One inopportune fizzle, block or dodge can change the entire course of a battle, regardless of what class you're playing.

P.S. - a little cynicism is good for the soul!

Bosun
Dec 28, 2012
352
1. Gear

The thing with this is in pirate, you don't NEED this gear to win. I survived all of Valencia part II without a single peace of moo gear (in fact, i have yet to do Moo Manchu) Plus, I don't see the problem with farming because it rewards patience and persistance.

2. Pets

Pets needed a boost. And also, I'll make the same point I made earlier that you don't need a good pet.

3. Class balance

Like in Wizard, certain classes at certain times will be better than others. This balances out over time though.
.
And finally, what's wrong with Pirate101 having a bit more of a farming aspect to it? It's optional, but rewards those who do it.

Commodore
May 31, 2009
888
DeathWiz101378 on Jun 8, 2016 wrote:
I'm genuinely afraid that Pirate101 is turning into another Wizard101... by that I mean that the negative aspects of Wizard101, the farming, the imbalances, the tediousness and all other aspects are coming to this game. I'll split my concerns into 3 major points.

1. Gear
If you've played or have seen videos of Wizard101, you'd know that there's a lot of work involved in making a Wizard at least "decent" in the high end of PvP. Farming for gear via morganthe, waterworks, you name it. These processes take a very long time to complete and can be very frustrating when you don't get the drop that you need to succeed (mainly in PvP terms.)
Pirate101, with the last Moo Manchu update and with what I've seen on test realm, is slowly turning into this.
The Moo Manchu dungeon can be very frustrating with it's length of roughly 2 hours on average. Fortunately the staff implemented the group plunder chests which give a higher chance of gaining loot, but even so, it's a step closer to the endless farming of Wizard101.

2. Pets
The second point i'd like to make are the pets. I remember when pets were virtually useless, only good for doing small amounts of damage. The buff we got about a year ago improved their usability, but also plunged Pirate101 further down the hole of farming. Now, if you want to truly succeed in Pirate101 PvP there are standards for what powers your pet needs to have. In Wizard101, "Staple Talents" are Proof/Defy and any Heal (Spritely, etc). In Pirate101, this converts into Elusive, Tide, and/or a Heal/Defense power. In order to gain a perfect pet with everything you need, you have to spend months on hatching and training your pets. Alternatively, you can take a credit card and blow tons to speed it up. Obviously there's a literal cost to this method, so it's very likely that you'll spend months being frustrated with the RNG which causes your pets to not get the talents you want on them.
My point isn't that everything should be easy. In fact, i think the pet system is okay because the small talents that you do gain don't majorly impact your performance in PvP/E, but my point is that things could possibly go too far. As more levels are added and more pet talents unlocked, the game could turn into another Wizard situation.

3. Class Balance
This is mainly subjective (then again all my other points are lol). It's practically impossible to have perfectly balanced classes, and with each addition the game verges on the brink of peace to imbalance. So unlike Wizard101, I would prefer it if after the El Dorado storyline is complete, Pirate101 didn't bring in another unforseen threat and would end the main story. (Around level 100 or so?) It's not because i Hate pirate101 and don't want it to continue, it's just that after a certain point it won't be possible to maintain any sort of class balance.

I could be being too cynical though.

Merciless Jean Percy, 65
Merciless Cass Spencer, 65
Merciless Quinn Quincy, 65
Merciless Jack Ramsey, 65

You have very good points, but I bring my counters to the table:

Gear

If, like me, you aren't into PvP, there's no need to farm for the high-powered gear available in the Tower and other places. Similarly, I've never gotten an, "I HAVE to farm for this gear to be able to continue the game because I'm too weak without it," vibe from Pirate101. PvE is balanced enough to run well even with mediocre bazaar gear or card-granting drops from bosses throughout the game. PvP is another story, but since I'm not into it, I can't really comment on it. As for the Tower, yes, it's long, but it can be enjoyable with a good team & the drop chances are high enough to warrant a run every now & then. I have a couple of 65+ outfit sets, a couple weapons, some assorted 65+ rings & accessories, & Moo's shoes all from only 10 runs on my swash. I haven't found any of it to be an absolute necessity; in fact, I've found that regular bazaar-available gear is sometimes better in terms of stat boosting.

Pets

I really enjoy the pet system here so I have very few problems with it. The grants that are available are essentially optional; having them helps you a lot, but not having them won't hurt you. It takes a while to make a "perfect" pet, but in the end it's worth it, even though you might end up having to settle for something that's almost what you want. From an almost strictly PvE perspective & my own opinion, there aren't any talents or powers that are "required", just some that are more desirable. I also think that training for longer periods of time is more preferable to sitting & playing cheesy minigames for hours. It's like double-tasking.

Class Balance

I have no idea where you got the impression that the balance is sitting on the edge of a knife, or how continuing the game would break it. The different classes are always going to have strengths & weaknesses against each other; that's unavoidable. Balance will be there, but it will always need adjustments. That's how games work.

Gunner's Mate
Aug 08, 2010
288
TucsonWizard on Jun 8, 2016 wrote:
Good points but by your own definition weighted by your propensity for PvP. From that perspective I can really have no opinion because I've never tried P101 PvP. From a PvE perspective however I can weigh in...

Gear: My opinion is that in both games gear is important but having the best gear is not absolutely necessary. If you take a look at the W101 message boards you'll see volumes of posts regarding where to find this and who to farm to get that. Looking at the P101 forum the numbers of similar posts pale in comparison. There aren't a lot of instances in P101 that compare to W101s Waterworks and Blackmoor for instance. These places in W101 are the benchmarks for gear. Most any reference you see regarding gear will relate to one of these... "I went all the way through Avalon with Waterworks gear" is an example. We really have only the Mooshu Tower and even then I question whether the drops are worth the effort.

Pets: This is almost like comparing Apples to Helicopters. The way pets work in both games is so completely different that any comparison is a stretch. W101 pets are always there but only rarely contribute anything worthwhile... P101 pets sometimes show up but when they do they can make a substantial difference in the outcome of a battle.

Class Balance: This one is tough and like you mention it's highly subjective. It is practically impossible to balance the classes equally. But that's part of the charm of both games. Read posts about the Balance school in W101... in the same post you'll see equal numbers of people claiming it's overpowered and underpowered. So who's correct? Everyone! It's all relevant to whom you're fighting, your deck arrangement and of course... the luck of the draw. The same can be said for most classes in P101. One inopportune fizzle, block or dodge can change the entire course of a battle, regardless of what class you're playing.

P.S. - a little cynicism is good for the soul!
Lol yeah, if we're not looking at a PvP standpoint then most of my points aren't relevant because you don't need half of the things you need to succeed in PvP to succeed in PvE.

Also by pets i mainly meant the boosts that they give you regardless of whether they show up or not, so like the epics, cards, talents (like elusive or tough) etc.

And with the class balance, i do agree with you a lot since everybody has their own subjective view on how strong a class is, i've seen so many people call Ice Op as well as balance. However there are some classes which aren't as good as the others, if you look at the pvp leaderboard for warlords and stuff you'll see there are barely any myth/death/life in comparison to storm/balance/fire. But perhaps some classes are more popular than others and that's the reason.

Indeed but cynicism to me is something that can be overdosed if i'm not careful

Gunner's Mate
Dec 26, 2013
214
DeathWiz101378 on Jun 9, 2016 wrote:
Lol yeah, if we're not looking at a PvP standpoint then most of my points aren't relevant because you don't need half of the things you need to succeed in PvP to succeed in PvE.

Also by pets i mainly meant the boosts that they give you regardless of whether they show up or not, so like the epics, cards, talents (like elusive or tough) etc.

And with the class balance, i do agree with you a lot since everybody has their own subjective view on how strong a class is, i've seen so many people call Ice Op as well as balance. However there are some classes which aren't as good as the others, if you look at the pvp leaderboard for warlords and stuff you'll see there are barely any myth/death/life in comparison to storm/balance/fire. But perhaps some classes are more popular than others and that's the reason.

Indeed but cynicism to me is something that can be overdosed if i'm not careful
I start every day with a large glass of cynicism with a chaser of sarcasm!
Those leaderboard stats are cyclical as well. As I mentioned, I've never been a PvPer in either game but from what I've read, Storm dominated the W101 leader boards for a long time... then Ice... then Balance... and who knows what it is now? I haven't visited the Wiz101 world for a while but I'd guess that the same is still true. From week to week one person's "OP" is another person's "X is too weak!".
An interesting thing about pets I only realized last night. Until then I was not aware that P101 pet "grants" powers seem to be available even if the pet doesn't join you in combat. As long as the pet is equipped the power will be in your power selection group. (if I'm the only one who didn't know this please do not ridicule me lol)

Admiral
Nov 23, 2011
1364
I think your concerns really only make sense if you approach the game from a heavily PvP perspective. As someone who doesn't do PvP in either game, my immediate responses to your post were:

1. Gear. You don't need the best gear to succeed, so if you find farming for gear tedious, don't do it.

2. Pets. You don't need the pests with the best talents to succeed, so if you find morphing for better pets tedious, don't do it.

3. Class balance. I have at least two maxed wizards of each class, and given that they are fairly distinct classes, I am fairly impressed with how balanced they are. I do find at a certain point witchdoctors seem to struggle for a few levels, but then they bounce back.

-Indigo

Captain
Sep 19, 2012
631
DeathWiz101378 on Jun 9, 2016 wrote:
Lol yeah, if we're not looking at a PvP standpoint then most of my points aren't relevant because you don't need half of the things you need to succeed in PvP to succeed in PvE.

Also by pets i mainly meant the boosts that they give you regardless of whether they show up or not, so like the epics, cards, talents (like elusive or tough) etc.

And with the class balance, i do agree with you a lot since everybody has their own subjective view on how strong a class is, i've seen so many people call Ice Op as well as balance. However there are some classes which aren't as good as the others, if you look at the pvp leaderboard for warlords and stuff you'll see there are barely any myth/death/life in comparison to storm/balance/fire. But perhaps some classes are more popular than others and that's the reason.

Indeed but cynicism to me is something that can be overdosed if i'm not careful
completely wrong of me to butt my nose in since what I'm gonna say is more of a tangent.. as far as wiz pvp since it was brought up take a look at my Wysteria Spells post on wizard101 message boards and you will agree with addition of those wizard classes would be balanced enough at all levels to solo pvp pve even darkmoor.. >.>
otherwise on P101 gear vaults and/or hanging weapons up would solve backpack space as well as having room to farm if so desired..
pets are amazing on here and for pve my swash still equips her verdant owl.. who fights like an op companion.. ;D poor Decius
stormy jen silver

Ensign
Aug 10, 2010
4
I read all your responses and each of you has a good point. I really only disagree with the replies on gear and balance. It is very irritating, to a point, how hard I had to work for my moo gear for sure! The thing is, it seems with the moo gear I am able to solo the entire valencia 2 realm. It has very nice and helpful spells as well as stats. With pvp I do have to switch it up a lot though, cause full moo isn't the best for pvp yet excellent for pve. Class choices that tie in with your gear is what will balance you. Pets help with what skills they've learned to adjust with choice of gear and classes. When I am talking classes I am talking about what additional trainer classes you choose to add to your main class of pirate. Pets are tough. I wish there was a strategy guide on how to get the talents you consider best for your pet to learn. I wish the guide would also walk you through morphing. Also, I wish the guide would give you a general idea of what pet snacks would work best for your pet. Unlike wizard 101 no pet has a specific school/pirate class. Pvp pets are the exception when it comes to pet pirate class. Even then, no specific class has any specific snack, you have to learn that through trial and error. I see so many pets with cards galore yet they have only used the same amount of training milestones as any other pet. Wish I knew how to do such a thing. Like I said wish there was a strategy guide fo all things pets via pirate 101.

Admiral
Nov 23, 2011
1364
sped76, Pirate pets are similar to Wizard pets in that there are two classifications of snakes they like, and a snack that hits both classifications they will love. The only real difference is that with Wizard one of those two classifications is obvious (school), while with Pirate neither classification (world, type of snack) is necessarily obvious. But except for the newest pets, the Wiki usually will tell you the world where the pet comes from and the preferred type of snack. For example, I train a lot of Corrupted Sky dragons, who are from Moo Shoo and prefer "dessert" snakes. So they like deep-fried bananas (desserts) and wild rice (Moo Shoo), but love moolong tea (a dessert from Moo Shoo). So whatever pet you are training, just look it up. Sometimes you won't find the information posted, but mostly you will.

-Indigo

Gunner's Mate
Dec 26, 2013
214
sped76 on Jun 11, 2016 wrote:
I read all your responses and each of you has a good point. I really only disagree with the replies on gear and balance. It is very irritating, to a point, how hard I had to work for my moo gear for sure! The thing is, it seems with the moo gear I am able to solo the entire valencia 2 realm. It has very nice and helpful spells as well as stats. With pvp I do have to switch it up a lot though, cause full moo isn't the best for pvp yet excellent for pve. Class choices that tie in with your gear is what will balance you. Pets help with what skills they've learned to adjust with choice of gear and classes. When I am talking classes I am talking about what additional trainer classes you choose to add to your main class of pirate. Pets are tough. I wish there was a strategy guide on how to get the talents you consider best for your pet to learn. I wish the guide would also walk you through morphing. Also, I wish the guide would give you a general idea of what pet snacks would work best for your pet. Unlike wizard 101 no pet has a specific school/pirate class. Pvp pets are the exception when it comes to pet pirate class. Even then, no specific class has any specific snack, you have to learn that through trial and error. I see so many pets with cards galore yet they have only used the same amount of training milestones as any other pet. Wish I knew how to do such a thing. Like I said wish there was a strategy guide fo all things pets via pirate 101.
Scroll to the top of this page to "Community", then go to "Fansites". In some of those sites you'll find guides a'plenty for just about any aspect of the game. There's very thorough coverage of pet snack likes and loves, pet talents, hybrids etc. Pretty much everything you want/need to know is there. The only thing left is to take that knowledge, along with your pets and go morphin'. It's a trial and error process and you'll likely fail more than you'll win but if you keep at it some amazing combinations can be trained.