Speculations on the Spiral

AuthorMessage
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
5468
Melody Fisher on Jul 23, 2014 wrote:
Blind Mew addressed this question at one point. He said pirates have to learn to hold their breath for long periods of time to travel through storm gates, as there is no air between worlds. However, there was also a discussion on the boards that talked about windstones generating an atmosphere around a ship. There are devices within the spiral that allow people to breath under water, our wizards run across one in Celestia. However, as far as we know, our pirate does not have one. I think that until new information comes to light, we should stick with Blind Mew's hypothesis, and practice holding our breath.
So, we're either holding our breath or our windstones are creating an atmosphere around us? I like the later hypothesis as it would explain how our companions and pet can withstand drowning.

Commodore
May 31, 2009
797
Kai Alcott on Jul 23, 2014 wrote:
What about the pet unicorns you can buy?
I didn't have enough characters to put them in, they're the same as Summoned Unicorns.

First Mate
Dec 13, 2009
409
anecorbie on Jul 23, 2014 wrote:
Obviously summoned and given permanent shape in the mortal world, this could also apply to the mount available in the W101 crown shop. And what about Ki-rins in P101? They're vaguely horse shaped, yet seem more a type of dragon.
So, is that your explanation for pet cyclopes? And pet trolls? And pet Myth Sprites?

Commodore
May 31, 2009
797
ValkoorTheVictorio... on Jul 23, 2014 wrote:
Call me an oddball, but I don't think there really is a deep meaning or scientific explanation as to why the Spiral's land masses and the ships float. I chalk it up to all of the hot air that Hawkules and El Toro bellow out! A simple explanation that somehow makes perfect sense.
LOL that's probably true. I can feel El Toro glaring at me through my laptop screen.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
5468
Kai Alcott on Jul 24, 2014 wrote:
So, is that your explanation for pet cyclopes? And pet trolls? And pet Myth Sprites?
Of course, plus the fact that they are miniature versions of 'real' Cyclopes, Trolls, Seraphs & Sirens. But maybe not sprites...hmmm need to think that one over.

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2674
The Hoodoo Master on Jul 23, 2014 wrote:
It also just so happens the Ki-Rin are wind spirits,so obviously they are summoned,bound,and then given full physical materialization.And then a bunch of little pirates get to jump on their backs!

On the subject of Aquila and Wizard City,the first thing that I'm gonna point out is a word from my favorite kitty-cat.
''The Manticores are an ancient scourge of all Aquila: legend has it that ages ago, the Immortals and the Cthonic Powers fought a terrible war that shattered the islands, raising all the mountains and creating all the chasms. During this war, the Cthonic Powers unleashed hideous creatures to ravage the mortal world: Harpies and Manticores are the most common. In the early days of Ophidian civilization, hunting these monsters was considered a prime rite of passage - any warrior who could slay a Cthonic beast in single combat was deemed worthy in the eyes of They Who Slither Below.

This myth doesn't sort very well with what scholars have deduced about the prehistory of the Spiral, which makes it very curious.''


This was at first meant to explain why Ophidan art has a lot of manticores,but it also happens to tell us a bit more on the prehistory of the Spiral,and the historical bias of it.

This also explains why the Ophidians and the Eagles aren't so...friendly to each other.

Now,this sparks another question:What else did the Cthonic Powers unleash,except Harpies and Manticores?

Okay,this sparks a lot of questions,but this is the one I am currently thinking about.Which story is true?Probably Bartleby's because everyone from Azteca to Khrysalis agrees on it.

I do need to catch up on this thread,and I will do it sometime this week.And Scarlet,I think you confused the terms 'sentient' and 'sapient' somewhere here.

I'll find more time to talk and talk later.Scarlet,next time you make a thread like this you are to tell me IMMEDIATLY!!!
Actually Felix, according to the quest "The Winds of Change" and Yu Noh from Rokugara Village, the Ki-rin are actual servants of The Spirits of the Wind that were sent to "smash their once proud fleet" of fishing boats because the Spirits of the Wind themselves were angered by something.

Which is actually pretty interesting because I read that in East Asian cultures (Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese) the Qilin or Ki-lin (Chinese), Ky lan (Vietnamese), Ki-rin or Kirin (Japenese) is supposed to symbolize all that is good, pure, peaceful and it is considered a good omen when the Qilin appear. In those cultures it is believed that the Kirin lived in a paradise type setting and would only appear to foretell or accompany the visit, emergence, birth or passing of a profoundly wise philosopher, sage and or ruler. They are only viewed as a sign of opulence and amity, described as 'a sign of peace and the purest good' and are so gentle that they harm no living thing and leave no footprint.

So, it is rather peculiar that their appearance in the Spiral would be, in one case, to smash a tiny village's fleet. Although in some East Asian lore it is believed that the Qilin only show anger or hostility to punish the wicked for doing horrible things or if a pure person is threatened by the wicked. But I don't think the villagers of Rokugara fit that description. But it is just a game and KI probably interweaved some of the East Asian myths about the Qilin/Kilin/Kirin with their own version of their Ki-rin. After all, us pirates and those that appose the nefarious forces of the Spiral, could be viewed as wicked in the minds of those said evil forces.

Also the Qilin is often referred to as the Chinese version of "our" depiction of the mythological Unicorn. The Ki-rin in the game have 1 horn similar to a Unicorn, which is one of many ways it has been depicted throughout East Asian cultures. But the more common depiction, especially throughout Chinese culture, has been with 2 antlers that more resemble those of a deer and antlers that look similar to their own Chinese Dragon. The Ki-rin in P101 more resemble the more fantasy styled Ki-lin of the Chinese Qing Dynasty (1644-1911) or the Japanese Kirin which is usually depicted with more of a horse-like body.

From what I read the most common depiction of the Qilin/Kilin (Chinese) is having antlers like a deer, sometimes the head or face of a dragon, dragon/fish-like scales on the body, a mane and beard, body shape of a horse, deer or even ox, tail of a lion and with cloven (split) hooves like a camel, pig, sheep, goat, cattle, giraffe and others. Sometimes they are depicted with feathery parts of their bodies, catfish or carp like whiskers and even with flames coming from their bodies and varying colors.

Regardless of what they are and what they are meant to depict in the Spiral, I have discovered that these creatures are extremely fascinating mythical beasts and kudos to KI for including them in MooShu's culture!

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2674
The Hoodoo Master on Jul 23, 2014 wrote:
It also just so happens the Ki-Rin are wind spirits,so obviously they are summoned,bound,and then given full physical materialization.And then a bunch of little pirates get to jump on their backs!

On the subject of Aquila and Wizard City,the first thing that I'm gonna point out is a word from my favorite kitty-cat.
''The Manticores are an ancient scourge of all Aquila: legend has it that ages ago, the Immortals and the Cthonic Powers fought a terrible war that shattered the islands, raising all the mountains and creating all the chasms. During this war, the Cthonic Powers unleashed hideous creatures to ravage the mortal world: Harpies and Manticores are the most common. In the early days of Ophidian civilization, hunting these monsters was considered a prime rite of passage - any warrior who could slay a Cthonic beast in single combat was deemed worthy in the eyes of They Who Slither Below.

This myth doesn't sort very well with what scholars have deduced about the prehistory of the Spiral, which makes it very curious.''


This was at first meant to explain why Ophidan art has a lot of manticores,but it also happens to tell us a bit more on the prehistory of the Spiral,and the historical bias of it.

This also explains why the Ophidians and the Eagles aren't so...friendly to each other.

Now,this sparks another question:What else did the Cthonic Powers unleash,except Harpies and Manticores?

Okay,this sparks a lot of questions,but this is the one I am currently thinking about.Which story is true?Probably Bartleby's because everyone from Azteca to Khrysalis agrees on it.

I do need to catch up on this thread,and I will do it sometime this week.And Scarlet,I think you confused the terms 'sentient' and 'sapient' somewhere here.

I'll find more time to talk and talk later.Scarlet,next time you make a thread like this you are to tell me IMMEDIATLY!!!
Hi there Felix. I think that Scarlet's use of sentient and non-sentient does make sense and that she was not confused at all in her usage of it. To my understanding sentient can not only mean capable of feeling but also: animate, living, breathing, flesh-and-blood and alive and able to respond with feeling and emotions. She seemed to be referring to the "sentient horses of Cool Ranch"- the ones that were walking upright, talking, living, breathing and taking up residence in Cool Ranch that are animated, alive and able to physically, through thought and mental reactions, respond to their surroundings with and through emotional displays. They are capable of responding and reacting emotionally through the use of feelings and able to exercise emotions through crying, laughing, feelings of joy, sorrow, respect, envy, jealousy and in one particular case, show love for their dear Don Rodrigo. They are able to respond emotionally rather than just intellectually.

And her reference of non-sentient was directed at the Pegusi mounts and the horses of Cool Ranch that merely serve the "sentient" horses and other Cool Ranch residence as mounts and for other work-like uses. These "non-sentient" horses do not react from emotions and or feelings and display the same capability of responding emotionally through crying, laughing, expressing joy & pain, a broken heart and love lost and gained. These horses are in essence, not capable of responding emotionally and can be considered non-sentient.

I may be wrong, but I believe that may be what Scarlet was trying to convey with the usage of sentient and non-sentient. At least that is the message that I got from what she described in her post.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
5468
Unicorns and pants! Now there's a subject to boggle the mind! I decided to refresh my memory as to this fashion choice ( or denial ). So the only Unicorns I've seen in W101 ( so far ) is Diego the Duel Master and Benedict Glenndeming. ( My highest level Wizard is only level 49, if there are more Unicorns, I don't know about them. ) Glenndeming is wearing pants tucked into some very nice armored boots. Diego doesn't appear to be wearing any pants.
Now for Valencia in P101, Steed, Aldomar, Grassi, and Lorenzo all wear knee breeches. The Professors of Sivella wear robes. Iago at his last promotion wears armored boots similar to Glenndeming and trousers appear to be also tucked into them. Ridolfo Cappoferro, however is pantless like Diego! Could a developer or designer please explain this to me? And please put pants on Cappoferro!

Commodore
Sep 20, 2009
811
Kai Alcott on Jul 24, 2014 wrote:
So, is that your explanation for pet cyclopes? And pet trolls? And pet Myth Sprites?
First Felix, yes I may have switched sentient and sapient. I suppose sapient is more accurate since all animals are sentient.

Second, Kai,
I would assume that the pet cyclopsi, trolls and sprites are not the actual beings. Rather they are some form of summoned being that is only a copy of the actual being. If these are the real beings, then the myth wizards have a lot to answer for if they ever get to the main part of Aquila. Just imagine how those trolls, cyclopsi, centaurs and such would feel about finally meeting those horrible wizards who have been magically pulling them from their homeworld and forcing them to fight in magical duels.

Finally, I have another question of my own to ask, one that has been bugging me for awhile.
How do anchors actually work in the Spiral? In the real world, and ships anchor slows a ship, or prevents it from moving around too much by simply dragging on the ocean floor or lake bed. But, in the Spiral with out ships floating in the sky, our anchors clearly do not drag on anything, or catch onto anything which would stop our ships from moving. Also, It can't be related to weight or air resistance. The anchor weighs the same whether it's lowered into the skyway or raised to the ship. And since the anchors clearly hang off the side of the ship at all times, the wind resistance of the anchors would also be the same whether the anchor is lowered or raised.
So, how then do our anchors actually prevent our ships from moving?

Pirate Overlord
Mar 10, 2009
6038
ValkoorTheVictorio... on Jul 24, 2014 wrote:
Actually Felix, according to the quest "The Winds of Change" and Yu Noh from Rokugara Village, the Ki-rin are actual servants of The Spirits of the Wind that were sent to "smash their once proud fleet" of fishing boats because the Spirits of the Wind themselves were angered by something.

Which is actually pretty interesting because I read that in East Asian cultures (Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese) the Qilin or Ki-lin (Chinese), Ky lan (Vietnamese), Ki-rin or Kirin (Japenese) is supposed to symbolize all that is good, pure, peaceful and it is considered a good omen when the Qilin appear. In those cultures it is believed that the Kirin lived in a paradise type setting and would only appear to foretell or accompany the visit, emergence, birth or passing of a profoundly wise philosopher, sage and or ruler. They are only viewed as a sign of opulence and amity, described as 'a sign of peace and the purest good' and are so gentle that they harm no living thing and leave no footprint.

So, it is rather peculiar that their appearance in the Spiral would be, in one case, to smash a tiny village's fleet. Although in some East Asian lore it is believed that the Qilin only show anger or hostility to punish the wicked for doing horrible things or if a pure person is threatened by the wicked. But I don't think the villagers of Rokugara fit that description. But it is just a game and KI probably interweaved some of the East Asian myths about the Qilin/Kilin/Kirin with their own version of their Ki-rin. After all, us pirates and those that appose the nefarious forces of the Spiral, could be viewed as wicked in the minds of those said evil forces.

Also the Qilin is often referred to as the Chinese version of "our" depiction of the mythological Unicorn. The Ki-rin in the game have 1 horn similar to a Unicorn, which is one of many ways it has been depicted throughout East Asian cultures. But the more common depiction, especially throughout Chinese culture, has been with 2 antlers that more resemble those of a deer and antlers that look similar to their own Chinese Dragon. The Ki-rin in P101 more resemble the more fantasy styled Ki-lin of the Chinese Qing Dynasty (1644-1911) or the Japanese Kirin which is usually depicted with more of a horse-like body.

From what I read the most common depiction of the Qilin/Kilin (Chinese) is having antlers like a deer, sometimes the head or face of a dragon, dragon/fish-like scales on the body, a mane and beard, body shape of a horse, deer or even ox, tail of a lion and with cloven (split) hooves like a camel, pig, sheep, goat, cattle, giraffe and others. Sometimes they are depicted with feathery parts of their bodies, catfish or carp like whiskers and even with flames coming from their bodies and varying colors.

Regardless of what they are and what they are meant to depict in the Spiral, I have discovered that these creatures are extremely fascinating mythical beasts and kudos to KI for including them in MooShu's culture!
Wow, wonderful information and VERY well written Valkoor. You are a wealth of knowledge and convey it so beautifully. Thank you for furthering my education.

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2674
Chrissy Th'Blesser on Jul 25, 2014 wrote:
Wow, wonderful information and VERY well written Valkoor. You are a wealth of knowledge and convey it so beautifully. Thank you for furthering my education.
Thank you Chrissy, I appreciate the compliment very much!

This game and what KI has gifted to us through their creativity and storytelling, makes it pretty easy to write passionately about those very things. You have no idea (actually, I am quite sure you probably do) how much time I have spent wanting to research or more intimately discover new information based on elements of myth, legend, history and literature that KI has expertly embedded and stitched into the fun and neat factor of the game.

When I first got to MooShu, I was intrigued and drawn in by those majestic Ki-rins and since then have taken more of an interest in researching their existence and appearances throughout the East Asian cultures- along with so many other myths, legends and lore of the other various Spiral worlds and cultures. I have said it before but this game sure breeds the want, need and desire to further one's knowledge in a vast many things. Most of what I wrote about the Ki-rin came from information and books on the internet that I have researched and read as a direct result of my desire to fuel my own fascinations that KI's creativity has sparked.

Almost every time I log into the game, I discover something new and exciting that leaves me thinking aloud, "I just HAVE to know more". I've never, ever played a game that has produced that intellectual yearning on such a consistent and grand scale. I absolutely love it!

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2674
CdeWinter on Jul 24, 2014 wrote:
First Felix, yes I may have switched sentient and sapient. I suppose sapient is more accurate since all animals are sentient.

Second, Kai,
I would assume that the pet cyclopsi, trolls and sprites are not the actual beings. Rather they are some form of summoned being that is only a copy of the actual being. If these are the real beings, then the myth wizards have a lot to answer for if they ever get to the main part of Aquila. Just imagine how those trolls, cyclopsi, centaurs and such would feel about finally meeting those horrible wizards who have been magically pulling them from their homeworld and forcing them to fight in magical duels.

Finally, I have another question of my own to ask, one that has been bugging me for awhile.
How do anchors actually work in the Spiral? In the real world, and ships anchor slows a ship, or prevents it from moving around too much by simply dragging on the ocean floor or lake bed. But, in the Spiral with out ships floating in the sky, our anchors clearly do not drag on anything, or catch onto anything which would stop our ships from moving. Also, It can't be related to weight or air resistance. The anchor weighs the same whether it's lowered into the skyway or raised to the ship. And since the anchors clearly hang off the side of the ship at all times, the wind resistance of the anchors would also be the same whether the anchor is lowered or raised.
So, how then do our anchors actually prevent our ships from moving?
"So, how then do our anchors actually prevent our ships from moving?"

That's a really good question, Scarlet, and one that I have often pondered as well.

My thoughts were that maybe there is some form of "Stitch Binding" that goes on with ship gear and equipment. I find it hard to believe that us pirates are the only ones that can take advantage of the "magical art of stitching". A lot of our normal gear has powers and abilities bound to them and we are able to stitch, transfer and bind those powers and abilities to new gear, via a seamstress.

Maybe stitching/binding is a universal process throughout the Spiral and just as we have powers and "magic" bound to our pirate gear, a talented Seafaring Seamstress can also stitch ship anchors by binding a power or ability such as "halted movement" to them. And similarly the powers that our other ship gear possess, such as healing/attacking/buffing were likewise stitched from powers that were bound and then stitched to those items.

Whatever "mystical force(s)" keep us from drifting aimlessly about the Skyways, I sure am thankful for them!

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
5468
CdeWinter on Jul 24, 2014 wrote:
First Felix, yes I may have switched sentient and sapient. I suppose sapient is more accurate since all animals are sentient.

Second, Kai,
I would assume that the pet cyclopsi, trolls and sprites are not the actual beings. Rather they are some form of summoned being that is only a copy of the actual being. If these are the real beings, then the myth wizards have a lot to answer for if they ever get to the main part of Aquila. Just imagine how those trolls, cyclopsi, centaurs and such would feel about finally meeting those horrible wizards who have been magically pulling them from their homeworld and forcing them to fight in magical duels.

Finally, I have another question of my own to ask, one that has been bugging me for awhile.
How do anchors actually work in the Spiral? In the real world, and ships anchor slows a ship, or prevents it from moving around too much by simply dragging on the ocean floor or lake bed. But, in the Spiral with out ships floating in the sky, our anchors clearly do not drag on anything, or catch onto anything which would stop our ships from moving. Also, It can't be related to weight or air resistance. The anchor weighs the same whether it's lowered into the skyway or raised to the ship. And since the anchors clearly hang off the side of the ship at all times, the wind resistance of the anchors would also be the same whether the anchor is lowered or raised.
So, how then do our anchors actually prevent our ships from moving?
If the reason why our ships and islands float is because of the same premise used in Avatar, the metal in the anchors are attracted to the magnetic impulses, but then I see a problem of getting the anchors to release from the magnetic flow? Bizarre if so.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
5468
anecorbie on Jul 24, 2014 wrote:
Unicorns and pants! Now there's a subject to boggle the mind! I decided to refresh my memory as to this fashion choice ( or denial ). So the only Unicorns I've seen in W101 ( so far ) is Diego the Duel Master and Benedict Glenndeming. ( My highest level Wizard is only level 49, if there are more Unicorns, I don't know about them. ) Glenndeming is wearing pants tucked into some very nice armored boots. Diego doesn't appear to be wearing any pants.
Now for Valencia in P101, Steed, Aldomar, Grassi, and Lorenzo all wear knee breeches. The Professors of Sivella wear robes. Iago at his last promotion wears armored boots similar to Glenndeming and trousers appear to be also tucked into them. Ridolfo Cappoferro, however is pantless like Diego! Could a developer or designer please explain this to me? And please put pants on Cappoferro!
As an artist, myself, I suspect the answer would be "He looks better that way!" I used the same reason to convince the writer of the children's books I'm illustrating that a raccoon character looks great with a pony tail! She agreed.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 10, 2009
6038
anecorbie on Jul 25, 2014 wrote:
As an artist, myself, I suspect the answer would be "He looks better that way!" I used the same reason to convince the writer of the children's books I'm illustrating that a raccoon character looks great with a pony tail! She agreed.
You are illustrating children's books? Which ones? What others? Details, details

Pirate Overlord
Mar 10, 2009
6038
ValkoorTheVictorio... on Jul 25, 2014 wrote:
Thank you Chrissy, I appreciate the compliment very much!

This game and what KI has gifted to us through their creativity and storytelling, makes it pretty easy to write passionately about those very things. You have no idea (actually, I am quite sure you probably do) how much time I have spent wanting to research or more intimately discover new information based on elements of myth, legend, history and literature that KI has expertly embedded and stitched into the fun and neat factor of the game.

When I first got to MooShu, I was intrigued and drawn in by those majestic Ki-rins and since then have taken more of an interest in researching their existence and appearances throughout the East Asian cultures- along with so many other myths, legends and lore of the other various Spiral worlds and cultures. I have said it before but this game sure breeds the want, need and desire to further one's knowledge in a vast many things. Most of what I wrote about the Ki-rin came from information and books on the internet that I have researched and read as a direct result of my desire to fuel my own fascinations that KI's creativity has sparked.

Almost every time I log into the game, I discover something new and exciting that leaves me thinking aloud, "I just HAVE to know more". I've never, ever played a game that has produced that intellectual yearning on such a consistent and grand scale. I absolutely love it!
I can totally relate. I might suggest that you DON'T start playing Wizard until your wee bairns are maybe 15 (Yes I have total confidence that KingsIsle will last that long ) as the myth and lore over there will have you researching for years lol.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
5468
Chrissy Th'Blesser on Jul 26, 2014 wrote:
You are illustrating children's books? Which ones? What others? Details, details
I'm afraid Ki probably won't let me tell you here, but when we meet in the game I can give you the title of the book series. We just won an award recently!

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
5468
I've been wondering if there is a connection between the Manders of Krokotopia and the Salamanders of Cool Ranch. It seems to me that they may have a distant ancestor in common. Although, psychologically speaking their behaviors are very different. Manders are "Quite shy by nature, you know.". They don't stand up for themselves and were easily oppressed by the Kroks. They have a small slight body, also. Salamanders are very different. Fighting them for the first time is quite a challenge. They are taller and robust compared to Manders.

Commodore
May 31, 2009
797
anecorbie on Jul 29, 2014 wrote:
I've been wondering if there is a connection between the Manders of Krokotopia and the Salamanders of Cool Ranch. It seems to me that they may have a distant ancestor in common. Although, psychologically speaking their behaviors are very different. Manders are "Quite shy by nature, you know.". They don't stand up for themselves and were easily oppressed by the Kroks. They have a small slight body, also. Salamanders are very different. Fighting them for the first time is quite a challenge. They are taller and robust compared to Manders.
Maybe the Cool Ranch Salamanders are more fit because of the harsher environment. They have to fight for everything. While Manders are essentially slaves to the Kroks, they may have a softer lifestyle than the Salamanders. The Manders also spend a lot of time in the pyramids, underground. That may be the reason they have their big, lamp-like, buggy eyes. The Salamanders are out in the harsh Cool Ranch sun (I assume it is hot in CR) and they have had to adapt to the dry environment.

Going along with Manders and Salamanders having a common ancestor, what about Inoshishi Bandits and Pigswick Academy Pigs? The Pigs of Pigswick are the squishy kind that look like they ate too many cookies. And we all know what Inoshishi Bandits look like. They're tougher and bigger. Also, one thing that I noticed while doing MooShu: Pigsy is a different sort of pig than the Inoshishi. And the blacksmith on the Sacred Mountain (can't remember his name) is the taller sort of pig too. Why are they different?

Captain
Dec 01, 2012
607
anecorbie on Jul 29, 2014 wrote:
I've been wondering if there is a connection between the Manders of Krokotopia and the Salamanders of Cool Ranch. It seems to me that they may have a distant ancestor in common. Although, psychologically speaking their behaviors are very different. Manders are "Quite shy by nature, you know.". They don't stand up for themselves and were easily oppressed by the Kroks. They have a small slight body, also. Salamanders are very different. Fighting them for the first time is quite a challenge. They are taller and robust compared to Manders.
The Manders lived in a peaceful empire of their own,until the Kroks came on a floating island(referred to as the Pledged Lands)

Before that,however,they lived in a very peaceful empire,probably ruled by a kind and just king.

In a roleplay that I made,I compare this empire,as the empire of King Solomon(Salamon?).

So,we may even be able to compare the Manders to the Jews,which would make sense,as they are slaves of the Kroks.While History is all backwards in the Spiral,it does make sense.

Then,the Manders that managed to escape,found their way to wherever ''the Far East'' is,and didn't receive the warmest welcome.Under such harsh environments,the manders probably changed quite a bit,including their personality,and when the opportunity arrived to escape a darker life to a better one,they were probably the first ones to hope on the ship!

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2674
This isn't really a speculation but more like an inquisition about the Spiral. A question about the story and possibly why it is the way it is.

I have always wondered why one of the Minotaurs in the Labyrinth is named Nessus when in Greek Mythology, Nessus was a Centaur. In fact he is the Centaur that ultimately lead to Heracles' (or Hercules if you prefer) demise by way of poisonous Hydra blood that stained the Centaur's Tunic after Heracles shot it with arrows laced with the poisonous blood. Nessus, in a moment of trickery, gave the Centaur's Tunic to Heracles' wife, Deianeira, which was years later given to Heracles to wear to a gathering of the Gods as a way to keep Heracles true to her, after she had suspicions of him fancying another. Nessus had duped her into believing that the Tunic would keep Heracles' love and devotion with his wife for always. Either the tainted blood of Nessus the Centaur or remnants of the Hydra's blood were still present in the Tunic and this led to the demise of the great Hercules.

So, my inquisitions are: why do you think Blind Mew and KI chose to give one of the Minotaurs the name of the Centaur, Nessus? Do you suppose it was because in the scope of the game, Hawkules surely couldn't meet the same devastating fate of the true Son of a God, Heracles? And perhaps this was a way for KI to allow our Hawkules to exact some retribution on the Greek Mythology's Nessus, and thus give the Hero of Greek Mythology some form of revenge against the "Spiral's Nessus"? Or do you possibly think it was just more of a random assigning of a Mythological name to an enemy by KI or dare I say, an oversight? (clearly I wouldn't think so, with their attention to detail)

Just curious to see and read your take on Nessus the Minotaur, versus Nessus the Centaur.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
5468
ValkoorTheVictorio... on Jul 30, 2014 wrote:
This isn't really a speculation but more like an inquisition about the Spiral. A question about the story and possibly why it is the way it is.

I have always wondered why one of the Minotaurs in the Labyrinth is named Nessus when in Greek Mythology, Nessus was a Centaur. In fact he is the Centaur that ultimately lead to Heracles' (or Hercules if you prefer) demise by way of poisonous Hydra blood that stained the Centaur's Tunic after Heracles shot it with arrows laced with the poisonous blood. Nessus, in a moment of trickery, gave the Centaur's Tunic to Heracles' wife, Deianeira, which was years later given to Heracles to wear to a gathering of the Gods as a way to keep Heracles true to her, after she had suspicions of him fancying another. Nessus had duped her into believing that the Tunic would keep Heracles' love and devotion with his wife for always. Either the tainted blood of Nessus the Centaur or remnants of the Hydra's blood were still present in the Tunic and this led to the demise of the great Hercules.

So, my inquisitions are: why do you think Blind Mew and KI chose to give one of the Minotaurs the name of the Centaur, Nessus? Do you suppose it was because in the scope of the game, Hawkules surely couldn't meet the same devastating fate of the true Son of a God, Heracles? And perhaps this was a way for KI to allow our Hawkules to exact some retribution on the Greek Mythology's Nessus, and thus give the Hero of Greek Mythology some form of revenge against the "Spiral's Nessus"? Or do you possibly think it was just more of a random assigning of a Mythological name to an enemy by KI or dare I say, an oversight? (clearly I wouldn't think so, with their attention to detail)

Just curious to see and read your take on Nessus the Minotaur, versus Nessus the Centaur.
I believe it was used because it's a classical Greek name. The Centaur companion from the Empire bundle is Nausica. Nausica was the name of the princess who helped Odysseus ( Ulysses ) when he was ship-wrecked on her island. This was the last leg of his journey, before his return home.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 10, 2009
6038
anecorbie on Jul 27, 2014 wrote:
I'm afraid Ki probably won't let me tell you here, but when we meet in the game I can give you the title of the book series. We just won an award recently!
WOW Congratulations.

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2674
anecorbie on Jul 30, 2014 wrote:
I believe it was used because it's a classical Greek name. The Centaur companion from the Empire bundle is Nausica. Nausica was the name of the princess who helped Odysseus ( Ulysses ) when he was ship-wrecked on her island. This was the last leg of his journey, before his return home.
I suppose that's a fair enough reason Esperanza.

But being that Nessus was thee creature that caused the demise of a God-born Hero and having that Hero represented in the Spiral in a quest related to that same said Hero, seems like using just any name would possibly warrant using one other than Nessus- unless it was actually Nessus the Centaur, of Greek Mythology.

I like subtle revenge, so I guess I just took it as KI allowing a little revenge factor to come into play for the not-so-lucky Heracles. But like you stated, a lot of the Greek names used in the game are mismatched, mix-n-mash references and nods of sorts to the real fables and players throughout Mythological lore. I just found it interesting though.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
5468
MistyDragon13 on Jul 29, 2014 wrote:
Maybe the Cool Ranch Salamanders are more fit because of the harsher environment. They have to fight for everything. While Manders are essentially slaves to the Kroks, they may have a softer lifestyle than the Salamanders. The Manders also spend a lot of time in the pyramids, underground. That may be the reason they have their big, lamp-like, buggy eyes. The Salamanders are out in the harsh Cool Ranch sun (I assume it is hot in CR) and they have had to adapt to the dry environment.

Going along with Manders and Salamanders having a common ancestor, what about Inoshishi Bandits and Pigswick Academy Pigs? The Pigs of Pigswick are the squishy kind that look like they ate too many cookies. And we all know what Inoshishi Bandits look like. They're tougher and bigger. Also, one thing that I noticed while doing MooShu: Pigsy is a different sort of pig than the Inoshishi. And the blacksmith on the Sacred Mountain (can't remember his name) is the taller sort of pig too. Why are they different?
Pigsy may look sleepy and easy-going, but he takes his duty to the Temple of the North Wind seriously. Hatori Hamzo ( the blacksmith ) Is tall and strong, possibly from his life long work and study of forging Mooshu weapons.
post edit - as an apprentice to a master smith he probably got a better diet during his childhood and teen years, leading to his healthy stature.