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Deleted Quest

AuthorMessage
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9777
While playing through Port Regal on my last pirate; I noticed that Steven Von Trouser is no longer offering his quest to go to Parrot Island and destroy Watermole "sacred objects".
I think this is a good idea and was probably in response to the post about racism. The quest experience will not be missed.

Lieutenant
Oct 18, 2014
145
I'm not gonna lie, when i was doing quests in Port Regal, that one really made me feel kind of uncomfortable. Good move, Kingsisle!

Gunner's Mate
May 08, 2010
263
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9777
Angel Angle The Li... on Dec 20, 2018 wrote:
I'm not gonna lie, when i was doing quests in Port Regal, that one really made me feel kind of uncomfortable. Good move, Kingsisle!
I wonder what other changes KI has made to the game since theredwallmouse's post? Chief Gunner Rigby no longer calls the troggies "savages", and both the narrative and dialogue of Haku ( in the Gold Mine ) now shows that his revolt was the result of evil influences from the Aztecosaur there; he thanks us for freeing him.
It's great that we're playing a game whose company is willing to make those changes in response to a post!

Dread Pirate
May 27, 2009
1893
I have been thinking about this topic for a bit now. While the quest was not crucial and won't really be missed by anybody, I hope this trend of "sanitizing" the game does not continue. We ARE Pirates after all, and Pirates have been known to do the occasionally culturally insensitive thing, for money. Historical attitudes were completely different than the morals of today, and erasing them is not the way to help kids (or adults) learn.

I really prefer how the quest where we kidnap Mabel was corrected, additional dialogue was added to clarify the fact that actual kidnapping is wrong, and that we ended up giving her an adventure she enjoyed participating in.

We still started a war.

Perhaps this quest could have had some additional dialogue added where, instead of stealing their stuff, we apologize to the water moles and go back and lecture the guy in Port Regal about Water Moles being cool people -- after all, many crews have a Water Mole right there to do the lecturing.


Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9777
Willowydream on Dec 21, 2018 wrote:
I have been thinking about this topic for a bit now. While the quest was not crucial and won't really be missed by anybody, I hope this trend of "sanitizing" the game does not continue. We ARE Pirates after all, and Pirates have been known to do the occasionally culturally insensitive thing, for money. Historical attitudes were completely different than the morals of today, and erasing them is not the way to help kids (or adults) learn.

I really prefer how the quest where we kidnap Mabel was corrected, additional dialogue was added to clarify the fact that actual kidnapping is wrong, and that we ended up giving her an adventure she enjoyed participating in.

We still started a war.

Perhaps this quest could have had some additional dialogue added where, instead of stealing their stuff, we apologize to the water moles and go back and lecture the guy in Port Regal about Water Moles being cool people -- after all, many crews have a Water Mole right there to do the lecturing.

I would appreciate using the line: "you need a kick in the pants, Von Trouser!" As Angel Angle the Life Wizard has stated, this quest did disturb her/him, it made me somewhat uncomfortable, too.

I think we can trust KI not to remove too much.

Lieutenant
Oct 29, 2012
107
Willowydream on Dec 21, 2018 wrote:
I have been thinking about this topic for a bit now. While the quest was not crucial and won't really be missed by anybody, I hope this trend of "sanitizing" the game does not continue. We ARE Pirates after all, and Pirates have been known to do the occasionally culturally insensitive thing, for money. Historical attitudes were completely different than the morals of today, and erasing them is not the way to help kids (or adults) learn.

I really prefer how the quest where we kidnap Mabel was corrected, additional dialogue was added to clarify the fact that actual kidnapping is wrong, and that we ended up giving her an adventure she enjoyed participating in.

We still started a war.

Perhaps this quest could have had some additional dialogue added where, instead of stealing their stuff, we apologize to the water moles and go back and lecture the guy in Port Regal about Water Moles being cool people -- after all, many crews have a Water Mole right there to do the lecturing.

I agree with you completely. I understand the notion behind it, but I disagree that the game should not be purified from obscure references a younger audience will not understand, and the older audience being mature enough to understand it. The game is history-based, there will be references like this. If they must calm the mood of the quest, they could add new dialogue, but I don't think removing content from the game is necessary or proper. Our Pirate had done worse things which may offend me either culturally or religiously, but I never take it seriously even to the point I do it subconsciously. I'm talking about giving offerings to the gods of Aquila or summoning Thunderbird. Looking at the quest, the Water moles stole from Steven first, and Steven pays us to steal items of theirs. We're Pirates, we'll take jobs like this, we may not even understand the feud all too much. I don't see that as being racist honestly, and there are far worse things in the main story than this. All in all, I don't believe it should have been removed.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9777
jamual heath on Dec 22, 2018 wrote:
I agree with you completely. I understand the notion behind it, but I disagree that the game should not be purified from obscure references a younger audience will not understand, and the older audience being mature enough to understand it. The game is history-based, there will be references like this. If they must calm the mood of the quest, they could add new dialogue, but I don't think removing content from the game is necessary or proper. Our Pirate had done worse things which may offend me either culturally or religiously, but I never take it seriously even to the point I do it subconsciously. I'm talking about giving offerings to the gods of Aquila or summoning Thunderbird. Looking at the quest, the Water moles stole from Steven first, and Steven pays us to steal items of theirs. We're Pirates, we'll take jobs like this, we may not even understand the feud all too much. I don't see that as being racist honestly, and there are far worse things in the main story than this. All in all, I don't believe it should have been removed.
I agree with many of your points, most especially about the religious aspects of the quests you mentioned. But with the Von Trouser quest there is nothing to indicate that the stolen monocle was an actual "sacred object", it had sentimental value to him as a keep-sake from his father, but had no impact on him spiritually.
I wonder what those Watermoles would say about losing their tikis, tribal ink & amulets? It was in just the last century that explorers did steal sacred objects from native peoples to exhibit in museums.
That you and I have no concern about the way our characters act, doesn't mean that other players can't express their concerns. While P101 does often bring in history, it isn't an historically based game, so using the "history card" just won't work for a modern audience.
Please take a look at theredwallmouse's post on racism and specifically Blind Mew's response to it.

Commodore
Sep 20, 2009
950
While I completely disagree with the purification of actual history. I strongly believe that it is much more important to accept, understand, and learn from all aspects of history instead of hiding the bits that make us uncomfortable.

But, Pirate101 is not the correct media to engage in that subject. That is what museums, schools, classes, books, monuments and statues are for. There can be some games, show, and movies that can also inspire this sort of discussion, but Pirate101 is meant to be a fun, lighthearted, humourous family game and nothing more. So, let it be just that.

I do like that our actions in game have consequences that affect the following storyline. But, I still don't think this game should be used as a source for history lessons.

Dread Pirate
May 27, 2009
1893
CdeWinter on Dec 23, 2018 wrote:
While I completely disagree with the purification of actual history. I strongly believe that it is much more important to accept, understand, and learn from all aspects of history instead of hiding the bits that make us uncomfortable.

But, Pirate101 is not the correct media to engage in that subject. That is what museums, schools, classes, books, monuments and statues are for. There can be some games, show, and movies that can also inspire this sort of discussion, but Pirate101 is meant to be a fun, lighthearted, humourous family game and nothing more. So, let it be just that.

I do like that our actions in game have consequences that affect the following storyline. But, I still don't think this game should be used as a source for history lessons.
Parents know that history lessons don't only happen in schools and museums, they are passed down via family stories and photo albums, they are shown on television shows, in movies and advertisements, and yes -- in fun, lighthearted humorous family video games. History lessons happen all around us every day.

Kids absorb information through many sources, and some resonate with one source much more than other methods.They may zone out in school when the teacher is talking or they are supposed to read about a topic they aren't really interested in, but put that same information in a video game, and it sticks. I've seen many comments where players told how they looked up information that they first heard about in-game, and they become fascinated by it simply because they were exposed to it by the clever writing and fun packaging that Kingsisle writers and designers provide.

This was a minor side-quest, and won't really be missed, but its quiet removal was a missed opportunity to educate rather than address how real people have acted in the world because they seek revenge rather than understanding.


Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9777
Willowydream on Dec 24, 2018 wrote:
Parents know that history lessons don't only happen in schools and museums, they are passed down via family stories and photo albums, they are shown on television shows, in movies and advertisements, and yes -- in fun, lighthearted humorous family video games. History lessons happen all around us every day.

Kids absorb information through many sources, and some resonate with one source much more than other methods.They may zone out in school when the teacher is talking or they are supposed to read about a topic they aren't really interested in, but put that same information in a video game, and it sticks. I've seen many comments where players told how they looked up information that they first heard about in-game, and they become fascinated by it simply because they were exposed to it by the clever writing and fun packaging that Kingsisle writers and designers provide.

This was a minor side-quest, and won't really be missed, but its quiet removal was a missed opportunity to educate rather than address how real people have acted in the world because they seek revenge rather than understanding.

KI isn't here to teach history ( this is obvious by the way they throw different eras of history together ) it is here to entertain, not instruct. KI has to take their reputation as a company into consideration, if even a few players are noticing content that might be construed as racist, then they are quite right in reviewing, changing or even removing that content.

Dread Pirate
May 27, 2009
1893
anecorbie on Dec 27, 2018 wrote:
KI isn't here to teach history ( this is obvious by the way they throw different eras of history together ) it is here to entertain, not instruct. KI has to take their reputation as a company into consideration, if even a few players are noticing content that might be construed as racist, then they are quite right in reviewing, changing or even removing that content.
You miss my point, but it's fine.


Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9777
Willowydream on Dec 28, 2018 wrote:
You miss my point, but it's fine.

No, I didn't miss your point, I just disagreed with it. You have your reasons for bringing it forth, as I did by my reply.

Admiral
Oct 27, 2009
1427
Willowydream on Dec 24, 2018 wrote:
Parents know that history lessons don't only happen in schools and museums, they are passed down via family stories and photo albums, they are shown on television shows, in movies and advertisements, and yes -- in fun, lighthearted humorous family video games. History lessons happen all around us every day.

Kids absorb information through many sources, and some resonate with one source much more than other methods.They may zone out in school when the teacher is talking or they are supposed to read about a topic they aren't really interested in, but put that same information in a video game, and it sticks. I've seen many comments where players told how they looked up information that they first heard about in-game, and they become fascinated by it simply because they were exposed to it by the clever writing and fun packaging that Kingsisle writers and designers provide.

This was a minor side-quest, and won't really be missed, but its quiet removal was a missed opportunity to educate rather than address how real people have acted in the world because they seek revenge rather than understanding.

On this issue, I suspect the people who brought it to KI's attention did not feel like it was properly educational. This game is a product of it's time, but the words they changed were a product of a different time that were kind of cut and pasted into this time (no criticism of Mew here, he was trying to bring in the flavor of the other time). I frown on people who try to erase and sanitize history for their own purposes or because they are offended, but we are not cutting out and rewriting Treasure Island or another historic work. This game is current day and as history goes, it reflects our times and attitudes. Lifting an old attitude in and letting it pass unquestioningly by, without a clear lesson on it, or a moral stance, is what I suspect bothered people. After all, Bonnie Anne, our dear crew member and all around good fox was one of the ones using the term savages, and we the pirate doing the actual desecration, which seemed to put approval to it. Some of us saw it as a touch to show she was flawed in some of her attitudes, and a product of her time and upbringing, but not all say it that way. Maybe if it was only bad guys doing it, it might have stayed, after all, they are bad, with good and neutral characters doing the bad stuff, it seemed to grant approval to the action. Trying to rewrite it into something acceptable might have been too long and awkward story wise, so they just made a cut. I guess they could have rewritten it to keep the same quest actions, but the reason could have been destroying cursed items that would have harmed the water moles, sidestepping the sensitive cultural issue.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9777
Lol, all this flap over a rinky dink quest of no importance...I'm now in MooShu, Khotan skyway and I haven't noticed any changes, all the citizens still call me "outlander" ( which is fine by me. )
Although, for those who choose MooShu as their origin, shouldn't those be recognized as a "native"?

Lieutenant
Oct 29, 2012
107
anecorbie on Jan 1, 2019 wrote:
Lol, all this flap over a rinky dink quest of no importance...I'm now in MooShu, Khotan skyway and I haven't noticed any changes, all the citizens still call me "outlander" ( which is fine by me. )
Although, for those who choose MooShu as their origin, shouldn't those be recognized as a "native"?
No, as you stated prior we are simply and peacefully disagreeing with you. We're saying that it took more effort to remove the quest than to delete it in the first place. The game isn't here to offend anyone and no one complained about it prior until a few months ago. Just my input.


Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9777
jamual heath on Jan 3, 2019 wrote:
No, as you stated prior we are simply and peacefully disagreeing with you. We're saying that it took more effort to remove the quest than to delete it in the first place. The game isn't here to offend anyone and no one complained about it prior until a few months ago. Just my input.

It didn't take any effort to delete that quest; however, re-writing and recording the dialogue to keep this quest would have been an effort. I'm sure Blind Mew was glad to get rid of it. It was such a small quest, most likely those of us that were kind of disturbed by it, never thought it worth reporting.

I certainly never complained about Thunderbird or making an offering to the Immortals in Aquila - first, it wasn't worth it and second, I came to terms with it. Belief ( did I believe in those Gods? ) was what made that quest easier.