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Captain Avery is no Phule...or is he?

AuthorMessage
Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2743
Now that I've gotten your attention & perhaps raised a few protesting fists, I'd like to start by saying that I know this has all been done before. As far as Avery as Kane, Avery an enemy, Avery siding w/ the Armada or in cahoots with those heaps of scrap metal. And I also know how utterly absurd it all sounds-- hey, I wrote it!

This is more merely a speculative, wild notion that came together as a 'what if' type of fantasy of sorts. It's not to say that Avery is indeed, or could be Phule, it's just to have fun w/ the notion of such an absurdity. However off-based the speculations may be, they are founded on the possible comparisons between Avery & Phule. And there is one other thing I 'uncovered' that is pretty interesting to say the least-- but I'll save that for last.

After reading the Newsletter, I couldn't help but come away thinking, 'WOW, if I didn't know that Rogues Gallery was about Phule, or there was no mention of him, I'd almost think they were talking about Avery!'. Ok, maybe not everything but hear me out. With tidbits from the Newsletter & also some interesting things from the game, one can easily see the comparisons between the two, different entities. Bear in mind that this is just for fun & the sake of wild speculation.

First off they have somewhat similar physical builds & quite similar personalities as well. We never get to see what is under the cloaking of Phule's clothing and mask, but to me he does seem somewhat more human than the other members of Kane's court..or at least less machine. The Newsletter states that Phule "has been observed indulging in uproarious laughter upon the failure of one of his fellow court member's schemes", which doesn't seem fitting of "Hollow men, running on gears and wires. Heartless, soulless and ruthless." The newsletter also stated that he was "neither General or Admiral but he has captained Armada fleets and armies" and speaks of espionage. Avery was quite the Captain in his prime-time piratin' days and dabbles in espionage. Both always seem to be one step ahead of us & are always aware of where 'we are supposed to be'. Phule goes as far as to say "Farewell pirate. I'm sure we'll meet again", right as he sends his Armada goons to attack us..as if he knows how things will unfold.

Some of the speculation is more symbolic or metaphoric, as in the case when Avery states, "I am too old, and I don't take sides." Who can someone who doesn't take sides also be..someone who possibly uses both sides..or someone that is two-faced. Hmm, Phule is two-faced, both literally & in his personality. Phule seems to waiver in his dedication to his Armada comrades & even states, "I'm tempted to let you go. You're so resourceful - you'd be quite a thorn in the side of Deacon, Bishop or Kane himself." Both Avery & Phule can be seen as quite whimsical & capricious at times.

(continued...)
Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2743
ValkoorTheVictorio... on Jun 3, 2015 wrote:
Now that I've gotten your attention & perhaps raised a few protesting fists, I'd like to start by saying that I know this has all been done before. As far as Avery as Kane, Avery an enemy, Avery siding w/ the Armada or in cahoots with those heaps of scrap metal. And I also know how utterly absurd it all sounds-- hey, I wrote it!

This is more merely a speculative, wild notion that came together as a 'what if' type of fantasy of sorts. It's not to say that Avery is indeed, or could be Phule, it's just to have fun w/ the notion of such an absurdity. However off-based the speculations may be, they are founded on the possible comparisons between Avery & Phule. And there is one other thing I 'uncovered' that is pretty interesting to say the least-- but I'll save that for last.

After reading the Newsletter, I couldn't help but come away thinking, 'WOW, if I didn't know that Rogues Gallery was about Phule, or there was no mention of him, I'd almost think they were talking about Avery!'. Ok, maybe not everything but hear me out. With tidbits from the Newsletter & also some interesting things from the game, one can easily see the comparisons between the two, different entities. Bear in mind that this is just for fun & the sake of wild speculation.

First off they have somewhat similar physical builds & quite similar personalities as well. We never get to see what is under the cloaking of Phule's clothing and mask, but to me he does seem somewhat more human than the other members of Kane's court..or at least less machine. The Newsletter states that Phule "has been observed indulging in uproarious laughter upon the failure of one of his fellow court member's schemes", which doesn't seem fitting of "Hollow men, running on gears and wires. Heartless, soulless and ruthless." The newsletter also stated that he was "neither General or Admiral but he has captained Armada fleets and armies" and speaks of espionage. Avery was quite the Captain in his prime-time piratin' days and dabbles in espionage. Both always seem to be one step ahead of us & are always aware of where 'we are supposed to be'. Phule goes as far as to say "Farewell pirate. I'm sure we'll meet again", right as he sends his Armada goons to attack us..as if he knows how things will unfold.

Some of the speculation is more symbolic or metaphoric, as in the case when Avery states, "I am too old, and I don't take sides." Who can someone who doesn't take sides also be..someone who possibly uses both sides..or someone that is two-faced. Hmm, Phule is two-faced, both literally & in his personality. Phule seems to waiver in his dedication to his Armada comrades & even states, "I'm tempted to let you go. You're so resourceful - you'd be quite a thorn in the side of Deacon, Bishop or Kane himself." Both Avery & Phule can be seen as quite whimsical & capricious at times.

(continued...)
(….continual)

One other thing I noticed was Avery's scar- it is X shaped. As we know, with the pirate saying 'X marks the spot' or in other words- if you find the X, you find the hidden treasure (or secret?). So maybe that X-shaped scar symbolizes Avery holding a secret to finding the 'hidden treasure'. Plus it metaphorically goes along with Phule's wearing of '2 faces'- one dark, one light. Perhaps the scar represents Avery's darker side, while the unmarked, the noble-- and it is on the same side as Phule's mask's darker persona is. But then again, the scar could just be what it is..a permanent souvenir of piratin' days gone by. Also, just maybe the whole Phule, jester, deranged, split personality thingy..is just a 'decoy' & Phule is indeed a brilliant-minded entity...or at least not as Phule-ish as he appears. Again, purely exploratory speculation on my part.

But perhaps the most shocking thing I recently 'dug up' lies within Avery's name. Now I won't be so bold as to say Avery is Phule, or he is in cahoots with the Armada...but I do believe that his name lends to him having deeper, more intimate ties to the Armada- and if he did, or was Phule, it wouldn't necessarily mean he was a bad guy, just perhaps someone with more grand intentions. In fact, it could even mean that Avery would be our ally & is 'forced' into using both sides to do the 'ultimate, necessary right'. Oh right, back to his name! I was completely taken back when I saw what his name meant, not the Captain, not Avery, but his first name. And I don't think it is by coincidence that he was given this name.

Horace in Latin means...timekeeper!

Hmm..clockworks..clockmaker..clockworkmaker..timekeeper? Seems quite interesting.The Newsletter states that “Phule’s origins…are a mystery. Some say that Phule’s existence predates that of Kane himself." Almost as if he is a keeper of time, of sorts...perhaps?

Either way, Captain Avery, Horace or timekeeper, you've got some splainin' to do!
Developer
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2743
Ratbeard on Jun 3, 2015 wrote:
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Thank you! I'll have my people get my version sent right out to you-- but you may want to subscribe to, or borrow my eyes and brain in order to 'see the how and what I see'....it confuses me sometimes too! Sad to say, there is a 'small fee' for membership though-- gotta pay those doctor & counseling bills!

For a 'mere'; guarantee of all boss gear that I wish to acquire (without farming- had to throw that in there), unlimited in-game gold & Scrip & Pack/Bank space, guaranteed successful known-hybrid morph attempts, a full list of all undiscovered hybrids and the parents that make them (I'll give Decius a courtesy subscription), an Oreo cookie for a pet, a glass of milk for a companion (2%), a ship resembling Barbara Walters and a mini-mountain for a mount....the Newsletter is as good as yours!

It's a STEAL!!!
Pirate Overlord
Mar 10, 2009
6204
ValkoorTheVictorio... on Jun 3, 2015 wrote:
Thank you! I'll have my people get my version sent right out to you-- but you may want to subscribe to, or borrow my eyes and brain in order to 'see the how and what I see'....it confuses me sometimes too! Sad to say, there is a 'small fee' for membership though-- gotta pay those doctor & counseling bills!

For a 'mere'; guarantee of all boss gear that I wish to acquire (without farming- had to throw that in there), unlimited in-game gold & Scrip & Pack/Bank space, guaranteed successful known-hybrid morph attempts, a full list of all undiscovered hybrids and the parents that make them (I'll give Decius a courtesy subscription), an Oreo cookie for a pet, a glass of milk for a companion (2%), a ship resembling Barbara Walters and a mini-mountain for a mount....the Newsletter is as good as yours!

It's a STEAL!!!
Now now Valkoor, you mustn't tick off the Ratbeard. After all it is HE that will determine your fate in this here adventure :D
Well, OK maybe Blind Mew will actually determine it but Sir Beard will determine HOW you get there or if it is one piece or not.
Captain
Jun 26, 2010
734
Valkoor me friend ye never cease to amaze me with these theories of yers, well done me friend well done.

- Deadeye Jack Morgan
Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2743
Chrissy Th'Blesser on Jun 4, 2015 wrote:
Now now Valkoor, you mustn't tick off the Ratbeard. After all it is HE that will determine your fate in this here adventure :D
Well, OK maybe Blind Mew will actually determine it but Sir Beard will determine HOW you get there or if it is one piece or not.
Teehee, Chrissy. I surely wasn't trying to do any 'ticking off', just being goofy and merely trying to pry some goodies from his creative and developer hook(s). And who wouldn't want a pirate vessel resembling Barbara Walters-- she's an American Icon?....ok, maybe just a figure head then! Besides last night the dog ate my last copy of my newsletter, so I'm back to hammering nails. Sorry, Ratbeard....
Bosun
Nov 03, 2012
365
What a coincidence! I posted a post on why Phule might be a human and therefore a potential companion the same day you posted this. It was also speculation but I think it backs up your theory too. The thread is called "Phule as a Potential Companion". Yeah, not as eye grabbing as your title but it's too late to change it now.

- Cheers!
Captain
May 16, 2011
552
ValkoorTheVictorio... on Jun 3, 2015 wrote:
(….continual)

One other thing I noticed was Avery's scar- it is X shaped. As we know, with the pirate saying 'X marks the spot' or in other words- if you find the X, you find the hidden treasure (or secret?). So maybe that X-shaped scar symbolizes Avery holding a secret to finding the 'hidden treasure'. Plus it metaphorically goes along with Phule's wearing of '2 faces'- one dark, one light. Perhaps the scar represents Avery's darker side, while the unmarked, the noble-- and it is on the same side as Phule's mask's darker persona is. But then again, the scar could just be what it is..a permanent souvenir of piratin' days gone by. Also, just maybe the whole Phule, jester, deranged, split personality thingy..is just a 'decoy' & Phule is indeed a brilliant-minded entity...or at least not as Phule-ish as he appears. Again, purely exploratory speculation on my part.

But perhaps the most shocking thing I recently 'dug up' lies within Avery's name. Now I won't be so bold as to say Avery is Phule, or he is in cahoots with the Armada...but I do believe that his name lends to him having deeper, more intimate ties to the Armada- and if he did, or was Phule, it wouldn't necessarily mean he was a bad guy, just perhaps someone with more grand intentions. In fact, it could even mean that Avery would be our ally & is 'forced' into using both sides to do the 'ultimate, necessary right'. Oh right, back to his name! I was completely taken back when I saw what his name meant, not the Captain, not Avery, but his first name. And I don't think it is by coincidence that he was given this name.

Horace in Latin means...timekeeper!

Hmm..clockworks..clockmaker..clockworkmaker..timekeeper? Seems quite interesting.The Newsletter states that “Phule’s origins…are a mystery. Some say that Phule’s existence predates that of Kane himself." Almost as if he is a keeper of time, of sorts...perhaps?

Either way, Captain Avery, Horace or timekeeper, you've got some splainin' to do!
Timekeeper........ Timekeeper........ Possibly........

Firstly, unhastily, and most importantly, before I attempt to add on to your theory even slightly, I'd just like to say that this is the best 'who is who, if this is that, that is this' theory I've ever heard- or rather, read. Kudos to you, Captain Valkoor.

So! Back to the keeper of time. Phule's mask could be the timekeeper. The white, light side could represented the Armada before Napoleguin was conquered. At this point, all they wanted was to save the Spiral. That was their mission. The black, dark side is further in time than the Napoleguinic War, at the point where they took their mission too far. In a sense, they are saving the Spiral. Take Granchia, in Valencia. They're taking it down and rebuilding it. The Armada are trying to do it everywhere. The spiral would be safe, safe from the taint that the living beings that roam it cause. The Armada's mission now is to eradicate all living things.

Now that that happy thought's out of my system, back to Phule. Get this. Phule is a double agent - of sorts. His mask is a remembrance of the past, with the spiral safe, and a vision of the future, with the spiral safe in a different way. Would you say that is time? I would.

If Avery is Phule, he's saving the spiral. He's slowing the destruction of the spiral down, just long enough so that we, as the heroes, can finish off Kane. I'm sure Kane could crush us easily, but Phule - or hopefully Captain Avery - is keeping him occupied. He must act his part convincingly, and if he pretends to be a madman, then all he must do is be random. And that's exactly what he does.

Hoo boy, this theory is a hefty one.
Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2743
Thunder Hawk on Jun 10, 2015 wrote:
Timekeeper........ Timekeeper........ Possibly........

Firstly, unhastily, and most importantly, before I attempt to add on to your theory even slightly, I'd just like to say that this is the best 'who is who, if this is that, that is this' theory I've ever heard- or rather, read. Kudos to you, Captain Valkoor.

So! Back to the keeper of time. Phule's mask could be the timekeeper. The white, light side could represented the Armada before Napoleguin was conquered. At this point, all they wanted was to save the Spiral. That was their mission. The black, dark side is further in time than the Napoleguinic War, at the point where they took their mission too far. In a sense, they are saving the Spiral. Take Granchia, in Valencia. They're taking it down and rebuilding it. The Armada are trying to do it everywhere. The spiral would be safe, safe from the taint that the living beings that roam it cause. The Armada's mission now is to eradicate all living things.

Now that that happy thought's out of my system, back to Phule. Get this. Phule is a double agent - of sorts. His mask is a remembrance of the past, with the spiral safe, and a vision of the future, with the spiral safe in a different way. Would you say that is time? I would.

If Avery is Phule, he's saving the spiral. He's slowing the destruction of the spiral down, just long enough so that we, as the heroes, can finish off Kane. I'm sure Kane could crush us easily, but Phule - or hopefully Captain Avery - is keeping him occupied. He must act his part convincingly, and if he pretends to be a madman, then all he must do is be random. And that's exactly what he does.

Hoo boy, this theory is a hefty one.
Thanks Thunder! Mighty fine additions to the speculations, I must say- very well delivered.

I figured if I was presenting a possibly Phule-ish speculation, that I'd better try disguising it as being plausible & with some window dressing. I'm skeptical that the theory part will play out & that Phule is Avery, but I'd love to know if Avery's chosen 1st name has any significant meaning & if so..what? It seems like a too good to be true type of hidden clue. So it's quite possibly, merely coincidence, holds no significance, is an intentional red herring or is just a cleverly placed, non-important tidbit, chosen upon a creative whim.

But it could very well carry with it more significance & a foreshadowing of sorts. That's what makes a mystery exciting. We can take a small 'clue' & try to see how it fits into the puzzle. I mean maybe Mew figured, who would bother checking to see what the NPC's names mean...who does that? Or again, it could be 100% coincidence, have no deeper meaning & not hint at anything. But it sure is fun trying to unravel clues & a mystery!

Captain Avery is also a character from the Doctor Who series & we all know how much Blind Mew, loves his Who! The actor's name who played Captain Avery, is Hugh. Now, if Mr. Mew wanted to give P101's Captain Avery an "H" name, to coincide & tie in with the real life pirate, Captain "H"enry Avery/Every/Evory, what better "H" name to give him than Hugh, to give a nod to a favorite show & actor/character, that bares the same name as the Spiral's Captain Avery.

But alas, he didn't choose to use that obvious, perfect set-up of an "H" name & reference. He went with Horace, which means timekeeper, which is quite intriguing to me, to say the least. Now, just for the record, I'm trying to put intentions into Blind Mew's 'mouth', in hopes of him stopping in to say, "Dude, you are way off" or "interesting speculations there". Plus, it would be quite nice to hear from him & just know that he is ok. We all kind of miss him.
Lieutenant
Feb 15, 2014
140
Thunder Hawk on Jun 10, 2015 wrote:
Timekeeper........ Timekeeper........ Possibly........

Firstly, unhastily, and most importantly, before I attempt to add on to your theory even slightly, I'd just like to say that this is the best 'who is who, if this is that, that is this' theory I've ever heard- or rather, read. Kudos to you, Captain Valkoor.

So! Back to the keeper of time. Phule's mask could be the timekeeper. The white, light side could represented the Armada before Napoleguin was conquered. At this point, all they wanted was to save the Spiral. That was their mission. The black, dark side is further in time than the Napoleguinic War, at the point where they took their mission too far. In a sense, they are saving the Spiral. Take Granchia, in Valencia. They're taking it down and rebuilding it. The Armada are trying to do it everywhere. The spiral would be safe, safe from the taint that the living beings that roam it cause. The Armada's mission now is to eradicate all living things.

Now that that happy thought's out of my system, back to Phule. Get this. Phule is a double agent - of sorts. His mask is a remembrance of the past, with the spiral safe, and a vision of the future, with the spiral safe in a different way. Would you say that is time? I would.

If Avery is Phule, he's saving the spiral. He's slowing the destruction of the spiral down, just long enough so that we, as the heroes, can finish off Kane. I'm sure Kane could crush us easily, but Phule - or hopefully Captain Avery - is keeping him occupied. He must act his part convincingly, and if he pretends to be a madman, then all he must do is be random. And that's exactly what he does.

Hoo boy, this theory is a hefty one.
They are not going to rebuild it.
In a side quest, they said they are stripping them down for materials to make the "Great Machine".
Gunner's Mate
Jan 27, 2011
222
ValkoorTheVictorio... on Jun 3, 2015 wrote:
(….continual)

One other thing I noticed was Avery's scar- it is X shaped. As we know, with the pirate saying 'X marks the spot' or in other words- if you find the X, you find the hidden treasure (or secret?). So maybe that X-shaped scar symbolizes Avery holding a secret to finding the 'hidden treasure'. Plus it metaphorically goes along with Phule's wearing of '2 faces'- one dark, one light. Perhaps the scar represents Avery's darker side, while the unmarked, the noble-- and it is on the same side as Phule's mask's darker persona is. But then again, the scar could just be what it is..a permanent souvenir of piratin' days gone by. Also, just maybe the whole Phule, jester, deranged, split personality thingy..is just a 'decoy' & Phule is indeed a brilliant-minded entity...or at least not as Phule-ish as he appears. Again, purely exploratory speculation on my part.

But perhaps the most shocking thing I recently 'dug up' lies within Avery's name. Now I won't be so bold as to say Avery is Phule, or he is in cahoots with the Armada...but I do believe that his name lends to him having deeper, more intimate ties to the Armada- and if he did, or was Phule, it wouldn't necessarily mean he was a bad guy, just perhaps someone with more grand intentions. In fact, it could even mean that Avery would be our ally & is 'forced' into using both sides to do the 'ultimate, necessary right'. Oh right, back to his name! I was completely taken back when I saw what his name meant, not the Captain, not Avery, but his first name. And I don't think it is by coincidence that he was given this name.

Horace in Latin means...timekeeper!

Hmm..clockworks..clockmaker..clockworkmaker..timekeeper? Seems quite interesting.The Newsletter states that “Phule’s origins…are a mystery. Some say that Phule’s existence predates that of Kane himself." Almost as if he is a keeper of time, of sorts...perhaps?

Either way, Captain Avery, Horace or timekeeper, you've got some splainin' to do!
Starts Reading
...........

Mouth Slowly Drops Open

...........

Mind Explodes

Speechless by the superb awesomeness that is Vicky. You, my friend, are a genius. I know, I know you prefer 'mad scientist' but you're not really 'mad' now are ya? Lol, seriously though, that was such an intricate theory; I can see it as actually being true! I sure hope it turns out that way, talk about one big game-changing twist! I'm afraid to pick your brains, as I may not be able to keep up with all this data
Captain
May 16, 2011
552
Noble Arthur Fairl... on Jun 11, 2015 wrote:
They are not going to rebuild it.
In a side quest, they said they are stripping them down for materials to make the "Great Machine".
Why yes, that's exactly what they're doing.

Snap your eyes shut for a moment, just to envision one quick thing. (Well, I suppose you shouldn't, you'll need at least one good eye to do it, and I'm no pro at telepathy.) Imagine the Great Machine duplicated, in every world. Every world. No floating islands, no ships except for Armada ships. Robots have taken over. No breathing being - in some ways, the Armada could be considered alive - exists. The Spiral Threads? Machines. Skygates? Machines. The whole spiral is under the control of Kane. The Spiral - recreated. Restored. Rebuilt.

Yup. Just as I said before, happy thoughts. Also, as I usually write on instinct, and find a way to tie everything together, I just unearthed something. (No, not treasure.) The Armada's massive plan. If I'm correct, literally. Is it called the Grand Design? Possibly. I believe that's its title. Anyway, could the Grand Design be a dystopia? Hunger Games, Divergent, Fahrenheit 451, and all the others would be a perfect example of this. In our eyes, a dystopia. In Kane's eyes? A utopia.

Alrighty then. That's enough speculation from me today. I need to tap out before I go insane. You see, several unformulated ideas are bouncing around in my noggin, and I refuse to post them before I can discover more.

So, buh-bye from me!
Captain
May 16, 2011
552
ValkoorTheVictorio... on Jun 11, 2015 wrote:
Thanks Thunder! Mighty fine additions to the speculations, I must say- very well delivered.

I figured if I was presenting a possibly Phule-ish speculation, that I'd better try disguising it as being plausible & with some window dressing. I'm skeptical that the theory part will play out & that Phule is Avery, but I'd love to know if Avery's chosen 1st name has any significant meaning & if so..what? It seems like a too good to be true type of hidden clue. So it's quite possibly, merely coincidence, holds no significance, is an intentional red herring or is just a cleverly placed, non-important tidbit, chosen upon a creative whim.

But it could very well carry with it more significance & a foreshadowing of sorts. That's what makes a mystery exciting. We can take a small 'clue' & try to see how it fits into the puzzle. I mean maybe Mew figured, who would bother checking to see what the NPC's names mean...who does that? Or again, it could be 100% coincidence, have no deeper meaning & not hint at anything. But it sure is fun trying to unravel clues & a mystery!

Captain Avery is also a character from the Doctor Who series & we all know how much Blind Mew, loves his Who! The actor's name who played Captain Avery, is Hugh. Now, if Mr. Mew wanted to give P101's Captain Avery an "H" name, to coincide & tie in with the real life pirate, Captain "H"enry Avery/Every/Evory, what better "H" name to give him than Hugh, to give a nod to a favorite show & actor/character, that bares the same name as the Spiral's Captain Avery.

But alas, he didn't choose to use that obvious, perfect set-up of an "H" name & reference. He went with Horace, which means timekeeper, which is quite intriguing to me, to say the least. Now, just for the record, I'm trying to put intentions into Blind Mew's 'mouth', in hopes of him stopping in to say, "Dude, you are way off" or "interesting speculations there". Plus, it would be quite nice to hear from him & just know that he is ok. We all kind of miss him.
Why, you are very welcome.

I agree, there may be something hidden in all these 1s and 0s that we investigate most deeply. But, however there is quite a fine line between facts and possibilities, answers and questions, discovery and confirmation. But trial and error is the key, and hopefully the correct cat will arrive and clear things up.

Hopefully it won't be telling.
Petty Officer
Feb 27, 2009
94
XD! Phule! Valkoor and his puns, never cease to amaze!

Quentin Davenport, lvl 65

Marcus Davenport, lvl 43
Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2743
wanted468 on Jun 17, 2015 wrote:
XD! Phule! Valkoor and his puns, never cease to amaze!

Quentin Davenport, lvl 65

Marcus Davenport, lvl 43
Why thank you Double Davenport!

What can I say, 'I like big puns and I can not lie...and I'm not afraid to let them fly!'

Any chance that presents an opportunity at placing a gloriously, horribly bad pun.....is simply an opportunity that must not be wasted. If I were an Ancient Greek athlete, you can bet that I would be the first to chisel my name in stone to enter the Puntathlon! If I had black and white fur and lived in China, I'd try to be the best Punda bear that I could be! If I had long flowin', golden hair and 'lived' in a tower, you'd certainly know me as Rapunzel. If I starred in a long-forgotten classic TV sitcom, it would surely have to be Three's Compuny. If I were the lyrics to any song, that song would have to be 'Winter Punderland'. And my motto will always be 'a punny saved is a punny earned!'
And if for some reason I were to be reincarnated as a smell, I'd be the most pungent smell of them all!
So there you have it, even more reasons to groan and shake your head at my horrible puns...as if any more were even needed.
Admiral
Jul 27, 2012
1196
Oi, Valkoor, your puns are killing me! But it's all in good fun -- or should I say all in good pun?

And speaking of fun, as long as we are speculating...

I too was most intrigued by the Rogues Gallery on Phule. He is a fascinating, dangerous character, strangely ambiguous, and I fear Anne is far too curious about him for her own good. Particularly thought-provoking, however, was the idea raised that perhaps Phule (or part of him) predates the Armada.

The idea certainly has merit. We have been given to understand that the wealthy elite among the Valencians spend most of their time with parties and entertainments. This certainly mirrors a lot of the behavior historically of Europe's 'High Courtly Period', a time in which royal courts and nobles were famous for their extravagant idleness - the pinnacle being the French courts of the 17th and 18th centuries, but the other European courts were no slouches at this either. Amazing toys were made for these courts, especially the French royal courts, a few which survive and have been restored: painted scenery in which a ship moves, a tempest crashes around it, and the ship founders on rocks; stunning automata, such as a metal swan which 'eats' a 'swimming' fish or (my favorite) a lovely girl automaton who 'plays' the hammered dulcimer (and is capable of doing several tunes). The latter was made for Marie Antoinette, and considering the aftereffects of the French Revolution, it is incredibly lucky this 'toy' survived.

Our fantasy Valencia is certainly capable of such technology and more. For the idle rich, such toys seem likely. A visitor to a party may see a pretty display of automaton musicians, and be entertained further by automaton acrobats... and jesters?

(More later...)
Admiral
Jul 27, 2012
1196
So if Phule is the result of experimentation by Kane upon an existing automaton, then why? Perhaps:

a) Kane wished to manipulate an existing clockwork, because he was not completely satisfied by his Elite creations thus far. I would speculate that Deacon and Rooke were his first creations: he would absolutely need someone to gather intelligence (spymaster) and a field commander (Rooke). But Rooke lacked subtlety and Deacon, while clever and sneaky, had physical abnormalities (er, for a clockwork) in his overly large hands.

d) Kane wished to manipulate an existing clockwork with the intention of discovering if he could do large-scale subversion of the existing automatons in Valencia. The problem with this idea is that I doubt many (if any) of the automatons created have actual intelligence, capable of performing tasks other than which they have been programed to do. In such wise they would have the capability of the average Armada soldier, or perhaps less.

However, what if Phule had been created with an independent intelligence? What if 'the genius' who created the Armada had already made a masterwork jester figure? Then he used this knowledge to make the 'ultimate soldiers' and their consummate admiral, Kane. Conversely, the jester could have been made after Kane. There was a time when the Armada seemed like a really great thing, and the master craftsman could have made special automatons thereafter.

If the jester had been made by Kane's creator, it would have been all the more imperative for Kane to bend 'his brother' to his side... and find out more of the secrets of creation. And, if this was the case, it worked... sort of. Phule was twisted to become Kane's creature, and in the process was driven mad. His 'playful' side, which still likely has fragments of his original personality, is the more intelligent and dangerous side, a malicious amusement which does not care what its target is.
Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2743
Anne Radcliffe on Jun 26, 2015 wrote:
So if Phule is the result of experimentation by Kane upon an existing automaton, then why? Perhaps:

a) Kane wished to manipulate an existing clockwork, because he was not completely satisfied by his Elite creations thus far. I would speculate that Deacon and Rooke were his first creations: he would absolutely need someone to gather intelligence (spymaster) and a field commander (Rooke). But Rooke lacked subtlety and Deacon, while clever and sneaky, had physical abnormalities (er, for a clockwork) in his overly large hands.

d) Kane wished to manipulate an existing clockwork with the intention of discovering if he could do large-scale subversion of the existing automatons in Valencia. The problem with this idea is that I doubt many (if any) of the automatons created have actual intelligence, capable of performing tasks other than which they have been programed to do. In such wise they would have the capability of the average Armada soldier, or perhaps less.

However, what if Phule had been created with an independent intelligence? What if 'the genius' who created the Armada had already made a masterwork jester figure? Then he used this knowledge to make the 'ultimate soldiers' and their consummate admiral, Kane. Conversely, the jester could have been made after Kane. There was a time when the Armada seemed like a really great thing, and the master craftsman could have made special automatons thereafter.

If the jester had been made by Kane's creator, it would have been all the more imperative for Kane to bend 'his brother' to his side... and find out more of the secrets of creation. And, if this was the case, it worked... sort of. Phule was twisted to become Kane's creature, and in the process was driven mad. His 'playful' side, which still likely has fragments of his original personality, is the more intelligent and dangerous side, a malicious amusement which does not care what its target is.
Anne, your words are far too pretty for a goofball like me! I think I nearly wept at your post(s), no...I'm quite sure I did-- at least from one eye. I rather enjoyed your speculations & they do hold great intellectual merit, as is the case with most speculations, since they are often founded on 'I can surely see that- principles', conceived from the 'hmm...could be- logic' & gathered from the 'makes sense to me- details'.

I could surely see most of your speculation(s) coming to fruition or at least believe them to be possible in the realm of what the story's future could hold in store for us. I still, however, think that there possibly could be something more human about Phule, at least above & beyond a genius created, independent intelligence. He just gives off a somewhat human-esque vibe to me. The way he moves, the displaying of his emotions, his laughing at his comrades failures, his great naval accomplishments & his entire thought process. Sure, the emotions, calculated thinking & reacting parts could be explained by an independent intelligence being present in him. But the movement, the ability to adapt, reconfigure thought, manipulate, foresee future happenings & outcomes, & improvise his train of thought, seem to come from somewhere more evolved than that of machines, wires, gears & artificial intelligence. Even the most sophisticated toys & automatons that you mentioned still followed a programming & adding a 'mechanically based' independent, yet artificial, intelligence seems would still limit him to less human-like qualities & manipulations. But a genius is a genius, and who knows what 'the genius' is capable of.

More so than knowing Phule's exact coming into creation & details surrounding such, I'm utterly intrigued by Captain Avery & what, if anything, his name has to do with the story..possibly the Armada..& dare I say, Phule himself. But one thing is for certain-- Phule is a mesmerizing entity & speculating over him is fascinating, to say the least.
Admiral
Jul 27, 2012
1196
Oh, yes, absolutely, Valkoor, I agree, the Armada Elites definitely do not truly fit the strict definition of automata. As we've discussed before, they certainly have emotions (mostly negative and/or sinister ones). So when they are described as 'clockworks', it is not entirely accurate - they have a sort of life, just not a biological kind. Was this intentional or did the sum become greater than the parts? Why are they this way? How do they work?

I think these questions are eventually going to take us on further journeys to find out. My guess? To Darkmoor. I just have a feeling that The New Prometheus (Frankenstein, the book) is an inspiration here (and Darkmoor fits the setting), and perhaps the story of Pandora too. Then again, it could be that when I have an idea in my head, it doesn't dislodge easily until further evidence discredits it!