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Witch doctor buffs + Carcarius concerns

1
AuthorMessage
Community Leader
Currently, witch doctor is the worst class in the pvp meta. Due to witch hunter's newest update, a pirate can simply stand next to a witchdoctor and cut their damage in half with ease. In addition, their base dodge is so low that they struggle to survive chains. With the exception of Old Scratch, witch doctor companions are also nearly useless. A buff must be made to the witch doctor class in general.
The Pirate:
The witch doctor pirate's problem is not a lack of potential damage sources. Instead, it is a lack of survivability and inability to pressure adjacent melee pirates. Thus, I propose a passive "Turn the Tide" style set of epic talents be granted to witchdoctors
Rank 1- 25% spell power increase
Rank 2- 25% accuracy increase
Rank 3- 25% incoming damage reduction
Rank 4- 25% will buff
Rank 5- An additional 25% spell power increase at 25% health (+50% in total)
This grants witchdoctors a greater ability to pressure their opponents at critical health ranges as well as weather their opponent's strikes. It would be trained through rank 3 (like turn the tide) with additional ranks available from pets and/or weapons.

Companions: Witchdoctor companions have extremely low damage output when compared to their compatriots. Each companion is generally given 1-2 spells, which generally do much less damage than the super strike many "meta" companions are given. I believe that, in addition to all that they currently have, many of the current witch doctor companions should be given an epic/mega/super strike dependent on their current promotion. This would not make these companions "overpowered" since their lower accuracy makes them less likely to land the ensuing chains. Also, more witch doctors should have access to the mojo rising talent. Only mormo, the crab hermit, and the troggy chief have access to this talent. Bladestorm and double tap are a mainstay on most ranged and melee companions. Why is it so rare on witch doctor companions? In addition to guaranteed critical strikes, making mojo rising a more common talent allows witch doctor companions to legitimately pressure opposing teams.

Carcarius: Ah carcarius. All your counterparts are staples in their class's pvp builds. And well, you kinda suck. All of these other companions are unique and powerful, offering their team a very powerful and intimidating board presence. Thus, I believe carcarius should have the mojo flow line, rather than Old Scratch. Non witch doctor classes do not need the mojo flow line. It is entirely too powerful to be universal. It leads to very cheesy pvp strategies and exceptionally easy pve experiences. Giving these buffs to carcarius gives witchdoctor a unique, powerful companion that is more on par with his counterparts.

Feedback is appreciated!

Writer, Editor, Administrator, and Pirate PvP guy at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10123
Matthew525011 on Feb 22, 2017 wrote:
Currently, witch doctor is the worst class in the pvp meta. Due to witch hunter's newest update, a pirate can simply stand next to a witchdoctor and cut their damage in half with ease. In addition, their base dodge is so low that they struggle to survive chains. With the exception of Old Scratch, witch doctor companions are also nearly useless. A buff must be made to the witch doctor class in general.
The Pirate:
The witch doctor pirate's problem is not a lack of potential damage sources. Instead, it is a lack of survivability and inability to pressure adjacent melee pirates. Thus, I propose a passive "Turn the Tide" style set of epic talents be granted to witchdoctors
Rank 1- 25% spell power increase
Rank 2- 25% accuracy increase
Rank 3- 25% incoming damage reduction
Rank 4- 25% will buff
Rank 5- An additional 25% spell power increase at 25% health (+50% in total)
This grants witchdoctors a greater ability to pressure their opponents at critical health ranges as well as weather their opponent's strikes. It would be trained through rank 3 (like turn the tide) with additional ranks available from pets and/or weapons.

Companions: Witchdoctor companions have extremely low damage output when compared to their compatriots. Each companion is generally given 1-2 spells, which generally do much less damage than the super strike many "meta" companions are given. I believe that, in addition to all that they currently have, many of the current witch doctor companions should be given an epic/mega/super strike dependent on their current promotion. This would not make these companions "overpowered" since their lower accuracy makes them less likely to land the ensuing chains. Also, more witch doctors should have access to the mojo rising talent. Only mormo, the crab hermit, and the troggy chief have access to this talent. Bladestorm and double tap are a mainstay on most ranged and melee companions. Why is it so rare on witch doctor companions? In addition to guaranteed critical strikes, making mojo rising a more common talent allows witch doctor companions to legitimately pressure opposing teams.

Carcarius: Ah carcarius. All your counterparts are staples in their class's pvp builds. And well, you kinda suck. All of these other companions are unique and powerful, offering their team a very powerful and intimidating board presence. Thus, I believe carcarius should have the mojo flow line, rather than Old Scratch. Non witch doctor classes do not need the mojo flow line. It is entirely too powerful to be universal. It leads to very cheesy pvp strategies and exceptionally easy pve experiences. Giving these buffs to carcarius gives witchdoctor a unique, powerful companion that is more on par with his counterparts.

Feedback is appreciated!
Although I agree that Witchdoctors do need some assistance in the realm of PVP and giving Carcarious a better epic would help a great deal - Pirate101 is still a PVE driven game.
"Non witch doctor classes do not need the mojo flow line."
There are non witchdoctor classes who directly benefit from Old Scratch - Privateers and even Musketeers use him. His Mojo Flow benefits Privy companions also.
Removing Old Scratch's Mojo Flow will just return him to the piece of junk he was before.
Instead of removing a helpful companion's power, I believe boosting Witchdoctors and their companions is the way to go.
1. Restore the Charm power and "Charming Gaze" to PVP.
2. Give WD companions a wider choice of talents and epics.

Ensign
Jun 22, 2013
8
Having played witch doctor since the beginning I tend to agree with most of what you said.

All witch doctor companions except Scratch are pretty useless in PVP from my experience.

I really don't think at this point you can take the Mojo from Scratch. I think what you can do is make Carcarius more useful with either an accuracy buff or a spell something similar to Vengeance Shroud where the opposing team can't heal for five rounds. This alone would make a buck or buckler at least think twice about rushing too soon.

As for the cheesy strategies that you mentioned, I like seeing other strategies in PVP such as Scratch boosted muskets and bucklers. The same old set ups every time tend to get boring.

Community Leader
anecorbie on Feb 23, 2017 wrote:
Although I agree that Witchdoctors do need some assistance in the realm of PVP and giving Carcarious a better epic would help a great deal - Pirate101 is still a PVE driven game.
"Non witch doctor classes do not need the mojo flow line."
There are non witchdoctor classes who directly benefit from Old Scratch - Privateers and even Musketeers use him. His Mojo Flow benefits Privy companions also.
Removing Old Scratch's Mojo Flow will just return him to the piece of junk he was before.
Instead of removing a helpful companion's power, I believe boosting Witchdoctors and their companions is the way to go.
1. Restore the Charm power and "Charming Gaze" to PVP.
2. Give WD companions a wider choice of talents and epics.
I never said the mojo buffs are useless to the other ranged classes. I said that they should not have it. I believe the mojo buffs should stay as a witch exclusive power, not something that can be abused by the other ranged classes. I believe that it's better to have a weak scratch (giving him the super strike I proposed would make him much better) and a strong Carcarius.

Writer, Editor, Administrator, and Pirate PvP guy at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Ensign
Jul 12, 2016
41
Matthew525011 on Feb 22, 2017 wrote:
Currently, witch doctor is the worst class in the pvp meta. Due to witch hunter's newest update, a pirate can simply stand next to a witchdoctor and cut their damage in half with ease. In addition, their base dodge is so low that they struggle to survive chains. With the exception of Old Scratch, witch doctor companions are also nearly useless. A buff must be made to the witch doctor class in general.
The Pirate:
The witch doctor pirate's problem is not a lack of potential damage sources. Instead, it is a lack of survivability and inability to pressure adjacent melee pirates. Thus, I propose a passive "Turn the Tide" style set of epic talents be granted to witchdoctors
Rank 1- 25% spell power increase
Rank 2- 25% accuracy increase
Rank 3- 25% incoming damage reduction
Rank 4- 25% will buff
Rank 5- An additional 25% spell power increase at 25% health (+50% in total)
This grants witchdoctors a greater ability to pressure their opponents at critical health ranges as well as weather their opponent's strikes. It would be trained through rank 3 (like turn the tide) with additional ranks available from pets and/or weapons.

Companions: Witchdoctor companions have extremely low damage output when compared to their compatriots. Each companion is generally given 1-2 spells, which generally do much less damage than the super strike many "meta" companions are given. I believe that, in addition to all that they currently have, many of the current witch doctor companions should be given an epic/mega/super strike dependent on their current promotion. This would not make these companions "overpowered" since their lower accuracy makes them less likely to land the ensuing chains. Also, more witch doctors should have access to the mojo rising talent. Only mormo, the crab hermit, and the troggy chief have access to this talent. Bladestorm and double tap are a mainstay on most ranged and melee companions. Why is it so rare on witch doctor companions? In addition to guaranteed critical strikes, making mojo rising a more common talent allows witch doctor companions to legitimately pressure opposing teams.

Carcarius: Ah carcarius. All your counterparts are staples in their class's pvp builds. And well, you kinda suck. All of these other companions are unique and powerful, offering their team a very powerful and intimidating board presence. Thus, I believe carcarius should have the mojo flow line, rather than Old Scratch. Non witch doctor classes do not need the mojo flow line. It is entirely too powerful to be universal. It leads to very cheesy pvp strategies and exceptionally easy pve experiences. Giving these buffs to carcarius gives witchdoctor a unique, powerful companion that is more on par with his counterparts.

Feedback is appreciated!
I agree with you concerning the basics of this idea, but from a practical stand point we have to realize that this is way too much to give to a single class all at once. Yes, the witch hunter buff was a terrible idea when you consider the inability for the mechanics to combine the attack and reduce together such that it is not avoidable, or the lack of a viable counter to that reduce being released at the same time as the witch hunt buff, but I think we should take a more minimalized approach to it. For example:

Giving witches a 25% spell power boost once under 50% health would be great to balance out the witch hunt reduce.
In addition I would recommend adding hold the line 1 or 2 to the hoplites and giving witch a group Widows Touch to help vs a rush.

Thats all that is really needed at this point. In regards to Carcarius, it should be noted there is a specific reason why he is bad. It is because the low accuracy low dodge spell based model for witchdoctor companions just doesn't work for PvP. This is because there aren't enough powers for that companion to work with over the long term match, and when that companion is given chains as to act like a class its not, it falls flat because that companion won't hit or dodge in an epic exchange. Witchdoctor companions are great in PvE, just not made for PvP, hence why we choose Carcarius over Bonnie in a tower run, and vice versa in ranked. This seems problematic at first, but thats the whole reason witches have Juju, to buff companions of any class when we know our own witch companions won't cut it.

About Scratch, you could actually say that he fills in the roll of your witch doctor companion because of his chains and utility. I wouldn't use 2 witch companions on my witch even if Carcarius was buffed, its just a really flimsy team composition. I think he actually should keep his mojo buffs though, they're really vital to keeping the remaining balance between ranged and melee classes in an already unbalanced ranked meta.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10123
Matthew525011 on Feb 23, 2017 wrote:
I never said the mojo buffs are useless to the other ranged classes. I said that they should not have it. I believe the mojo buffs should stay as a witch exclusive power, not something that can be abused by the other ranged classes. I believe that it's better to have a weak scratch (giving him the super strike I proposed would make him much better) and a strong Carcarius.
I disagree, some pirates cross train spooky for those buffs that affect their talents, this isn't "abuse". Taking away a power from a universal companion isn't going to happen.
Strengthening Carcarious benefits WD without weakening other classes.

Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
anecorbie on Feb 23, 2017 wrote:
Although I agree that Witchdoctors do need some assistance in the realm of PVP and giving Carcarious a better epic would help a great deal - Pirate101 is still a PVE driven game.
"Non witch doctor classes do not need the mojo flow line."
There are non witchdoctor classes who directly benefit from Old Scratch - Privateers and even Musketeers use him. His Mojo Flow benefits Privy companions also.
Removing Old Scratch's Mojo Flow will just return him to the piece of junk he was before.
Instead of removing a helpful companion's power, I believe boosting Witchdoctors and their companions is the way to go.
1. Restore the Charm power and "Charming Gaze" to PVP.
2. Give WD companions a wider choice of talents and epics.
"Removing Old Scratch's Mojo Flow will just return him to the piece of junk he was before."

Maybe that wouldn't be such a terrible thing given how overpowered he is in PvE (yes, overpowered). While classes like privateer/musketeer do benefit greatly from it, it's not needed at all. This is all disregarding that he is broken in PvP of course though, hence why swapping those mojo buffs with Carcarius would killing 2 birds with one stone. This game might be "PvE driven" but that doesn't mean conformity is the route to take.

Also I'm not sure why people continue to bring up charm/charming gaze. Ratbeard has already explained (on several occasions) how it's not that simple given the huge advantage it would give depending on each person's color.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10123
Wolf SkullRider on Feb 26, 2017 wrote:
"Removing Old Scratch's Mojo Flow will just return him to the piece of junk he was before."

Maybe that wouldn't be such a terrible thing given how overpowered he is in PvE (yes, overpowered). While classes like privateer/musketeer do benefit greatly from it, it's not needed at all. This is all disregarding that he is broken in PvP of course though, hence why swapping those mojo buffs with Carcarius would killing 2 birds with one stone. This game might be "PvE driven" but that doesn't mean conformity is the route to take.

Also I'm not sure why people continue to bring up charm/charming gaze. Ratbeard has already explained (on several occasions) how it's not that simple given the huge advantage it would give depending on each person's color.
If he were so very over-powered then more classes would use him. I, as a swashbuckler, have no use for his buffs. Yes, I heard that it helps my Poison, but really, it's not that powerful. Why take away his benefits to Privs and Muskets and privateer/wd companions? Surely WD aren't the only ones using these companions?

People keep on bringing up Charm because it's one of the top leveled powers in the Witchdoctor class; how would you like it if one of your top powers were banned? And not for any "OP" reasons but because it's use messed up battle order?
Ratbeard ( in a test realm thread, I believe ) said that the developers were working on that problem and as soon as it was fixed, Charm, along with Charming Gaze, would be reinstated.

Community Leader
anecorbie on Feb 26, 2017 wrote:
If he were so very over-powered then more classes would use him. I, as a swashbuckler, have no use for his buffs. Yes, I heard that it helps my Poison, but really, it's not that powerful. Why take away his benefits to Privs and Muskets and privateer/wd companions? Surely WD aren't the only ones using these companions?

People keep on bringing up Charm because it's one of the top leveled powers in the Witchdoctor class; how would you like it if one of your top powers were banned? And not for any "OP" reasons but because it's use messed up battle order?
Ratbeard ( in a test realm thread, I believe ) said that the developers were working on that problem and as soon as it was fixed, Charm, along with Charming Gaze, would be reinstated.
3/5 classes use him in pve to complete cheese every encounter in the game. Kane, Moo tower, and Smuggler's arena go from a significant challenge to a pathetic joke with Old Scratch. I've been able to solo every encounter in the game due to the insanely broken combination of scratch, blood flames, and black fog. Even with the poison, it's extremely helpful. Taking poison damage from 214 a round to over 500 (in pve of course) not to be messed with. There should not be one strategy that makes every battle in the game a pushover. Why take those benefits to the other classes away? They are plenty powerful enough without them. As many competent muskets and privateers have illustrated, Old Scratch is nowhere near necessary to remain competitive. One shouldn't need multiple 2000 to 3000 point absorbs, 900+ damage aoe's,level 100 summons, and turbocharged heals to be competitive with classes that already have other massive benefits.

Writer, Editor, Administrator, and Pirate PvP guy at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10123
Matthew525011 on Feb 27, 2017 wrote:
3/5 classes use him in pve to complete cheese every encounter in the game. Kane, Moo tower, and Smuggler's arena go from a significant challenge to a pathetic joke with Old Scratch. I've been able to solo every encounter in the game due to the insanely broken combination of scratch, blood flames, and black fog. Even with the poison, it's extremely helpful. Taking poison damage from 214 a round to over 500 (in pve of course) not to be messed with. There should not be one strategy that makes every battle in the game a pushover. Why take those benefits to the other classes away? They are plenty powerful enough without them. As many competent muskets and privateers have illustrated, Old Scratch is nowhere near necessary to remain competitive. One shouldn't need multiple 2000 to 3000 point absorbs, 900+ damage aoe's,level 100 summons, and turbocharged heals to be competitive with classes that already have other massive benefits.
I believe you've exaggerated his significance. You used Old Scratch in the Quarry Cave or Trigante Cellars ( solo )?

Community Leader
anecorbie on Feb 28, 2017 wrote:
I believe you've exaggerated his significance. You used Old Scratch in the Quarry Cave or Trigante Cellars ( solo )?
I don't understand why you mentioned these two instances. They're both incredibly easy to solo with or without old scratch (I did it without since I was using primarily bazaar gear and low level no auction gear). My point was that in the most difficult instances that would be otherwise extremely difficult to solo (Kane, Moo, Smuggler's), Scratch makes it a cakewalk.

Writer, Editor, Administrator, and Pirate PvP guy at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
anecorbie on Feb 28, 2017 wrote:
I believe you've exaggerated his significance. You used Old Scratch in the Quarry Cave or Trigante Cellars ( solo )?
He actually isn't over-exaggerating at all. Frozen Tide + Scratch buff + Blood Flames (+ a second Scratch buff) + Mojo storm spam shuts down virtually any mob before they really even get a chance to reach your team. Soloing, while usually challenging in the instances you stated, is made effortless and you'll be watching your enemies burn to a crisp almost instantly (give it 2 rounds tops).

In response to your previous point, charm was very much "op" in the sense that it wrongly affected when the charmed unit would move depending on the color, which in turn brought about unprecedented tempo swings in matches. Huge if here, if Ratbeard is able to fix this then I 100% agree that this power should be unbanned immediately. It's a huge part of Witchdoctors' arsenal of powers and this alone would have a huge huge impact on the current PvP meta. I would like to see this change as much as the next person I want to make that absolutely clear, but until the turn interaction is tidied up I can't say that I'd get behind it.

Alas though, I'd be satisfied with Carcarius if he received (in addition to what he has now):

  • A buff to his honestly foolishly low accuracy (as well as all other WD companions, ack x.x)
  • Access to Mojo Rising 3 (another problem for ALL WD companions aside from 3, none of who can even get rank 2)
  • A guaranteed critical strike (possibly replace his purge, a dull power of his considering it's downsides)
  • One other unique power (witch has a lot, surely something creative can be given to him. Evil eye maybe?)


But yea, we are all just looking for ways to make the game better so there really isn't a need to discredit others' suggestions because something "seems" unfair to one class over the other. This game will never be ideally balanced. What may seem fair on paper isn't always the case in actuality. On the same token though, dealing consistent 3k+ damage hits with aoes is nothing short of simply just unreasonable.

Ensign
Jul 12, 2016
41
Matthew525011 on Feb 27, 2017 wrote:
3/5 classes use him in pve to complete cheese every encounter in the game. Kane, Moo tower, and Smuggler's arena go from a significant challenge to a pathetic joke with Old Scratch. I've been able to solo every encounter in the game due to the insanely broken combination of scratch, blood flames, and black fog. Even with the poison, it's extremely helpful. Taking poison damage from 214 a round to over 500 (in pve of course) not to be messed with. There should not be one strategy that makes every battle in the game a pushover. Why take those benefits to the other classes away? They are plenty powerful enough without them. As many competent muskets and privateers have illustrated, Old Scratch is nowhere near necessary to remain competitive. One shouldn't need multiple 2000 to 3000 point absorbs, 900+ damage aoe's,level 100 summons, and turbocharged heals to be competitive with classes that already have other massive benefits.
If you really look at it, does PvE really need to be challenging? From my point of view, if you want a challenge there's always that in PvP. But there is a big difference between challenging and time consuming. Removing scratch's buffs doesn't make PvE more challenging or force you to come up with more strategies, its already easy enough. It only makes it more time consuming. Curbing scratch's overuse in PvE may seem like a good idea on paper, but when you're stuck doing 2.5 hour moo runs instead of 45 min moo runs farming for that Death's Bargain that won't drop, you're gonna be wishing scratch had his buffs back

And while these classes that use scratch may not need him in spar, I have to point out I never see any muskets or witches in ranked; even privy is relatively rare compared to the overwhelming amount of Buccaneers and Swashbucklers. So scratch must not be percieved as too overpowered, if so many rankers still choose those melee classes over ranged imo. Plus, nerfing scratch and giving those buffs doesn't actually buff witch, witch doesn't actually experience a net gain of powers- its only a reskin that makes the already lesser played ranged privy and musket (which witch has the advantage match up) get played even less, and that can only be bad for witchdoctors.

Captain
Jun 10, 2013
723
In my opinion they should not mess with Old Scratch. It is one thing to give a new power to a character but I think taking away a power that a character has had for awhile would be a mistake.

Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
TalonThundercloud on Mar 1, 2017 wrote:
If you really look at it, does PvE really need to be challenging? From my point of view, if you want a challenge there's always that in PvP. But there is a big difference between challenging and time consuming. Removing scratch's buffs doesn't make PvE more challenging or force you to come up with more strategies, its already easy enough. It only makes it more time consuming. Curbing scratch's overuse in PvE may seem like a good idea on paper, but when you're stuck doing 2.5 hour moo runs instead of 45 min moo runs farming for that Death's Bargain that won't drop, you're gonna be wishing scratch had his buffs back

And while these classes that use scratch may not need him in spar, I have to point out I never see any muskets or witches in ranked; even privy is relatively rare compared to the overwhelming amount of Buccaneers and Swashbucklers. So scratch must not be percieved as too overpowered, if so many rankers still choose those melee classes over ranged imo. Plus, nerfing scratch and giving those buffs doesn't actually buff witch, witch doesn't actually experience a net gain of powers- its only a reskin that makes the already lesser played ranged privy and musket (which witch has the advantage match up) get played even less, and that can only be bad for witchdoctors.
Your first paragraph is a hit and miss. A case can be made for both sides so I'm not going to try to dig deeper into it but in short yes, PvE should in fact be challenging enough to the point where it wouldn't take me 15 minutes to complete a single Kane run. Tower of Moo Manchu and Smuggler's Arena, (the most notable dungeons in the entire game mind you) are meant to be longer, more tedious instances to farm. If you fail just try again, one companion shouldn't be able to have thathuge of an impact in PvE where where the average run time (of all dungeons) is slashed by over half.

Said classes still don't need him to succeed in PvP. Yes, those classes seem severely underrepresented in comparison to Swashbucklers/Buccaneers, but that is mainly because of overall class popularity. There is no direct correlation between which classes are played more/less and the impact that Scratch's buffs have on the entire game.

Also if I am reading your comment right, you seem to be saying that witchdoctor would be inadvertently "inconvenienced" in ranked because you'd see even less of their favorable matchups (Privateers/Musketeers)? It's bold to imply that people would stop using those classes over ONE companion nerf, though if they aren't that common to begin with then would you see much of a difference in usage anyways?

Also that statement alone only hinders the point you are trying to make (which I do understand) that a nerf to Scratch would be devastating to the point that people would drop entire classes in PvP altogether. There are plenty of other companions that would make do in his place, so your point in that regard isn't very convincing imo.

As they say, "to each their own" I suppose, but one should try to look at and consider the bigger picture first before making unreasonable/biased comments.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10123
Ok guys, just one question - why should an universal companion be nerfed just to make a single class more competitive in PVP?
I want WD to be competitive, but it's not necessary to do this by reducing the usefulness of a single companion in PVE or PVP.
Let's discuss ways of making WD more effective in PVP and leave Old Scratch out of the discussion, because it's very unlikely that KI will do as the OP has suggested.
Boost Carcarious any way you want, but leave Old Scratch alone.

Petty Officer
Dec 26, 2012
54
Currently there's a lot of debate going on about "Musketeers/Privateers being garbage without Old Scratch". Yes. Mojo boosts GREATLY improve healing/Valor's Armor/bombs/etc. but it is not necessary to win. Musketeers and Privateers already greatly excel in defense AND they're both very deadly in the right hands, I can assure you, they DO NOT need 2000+ absorbs (Which can be easily countered with Purge Magic). In fact I almost never use Old Scratch in PVP and I still win matches without the need of his boosts. Heck, I actually have a friend who is a Privateer champion and he never uses Old Scratch.

The reason Witchdoctors need to use Scratch is well, for his Mojo boosts and they heavily rely on spooky and spell power. That's literally their main niche, deadly spells in exchange for being squishy. A "glass cannon" if you might say so. Taking away the boosts will only cause more problems and Witchdoctors aren't exactly the"top tier class" either. They already have many issues such as being easy to chain hits on them AND the Witch hunter change really impacted them. Privateers and Musketeers do rely on spell power as well, but that's not their main job. Privateer is a support class that gets some of THE BEST defensive spells in the entire game. Musketeer is the perfect mixture of offense and defense with balanced stats AND they both naturally get Elusive which prevents them from being as squishy as say, Witchdoctor and Swashbuckler.

Do Privateers REALLY need bombs with unlimited range that can easily do 700+ damage with Mojo boosts? Do Musketeers REALLY need bombs that can do 1000+ damage? There's more to Privateers than just "shield heal shield" and there's more to Musketeers than just "lol bomb spam". Please do not make such bold statements without observing each class. Privateers and Musketeers are fine without Scratch. Case closed.

Community Leader
anecorbie on Mar 2, 2017 wrote:
Ok guys, just one question - why should an universal companion be nerfed just to make a single class more competitive in PVP?
I want WD to be competitive, but it's not necessary to do this by reducing the usefulness of a single companion in PVE or PVP.
Let's discuss ways of making WD more effective in PVP and leave Old Scratch out of the discussion, because it's very unlikely that KI will do as the OP has suggested.
Boost Carcarious any way you want, but leave Old Scratch alone.
The goal of the Old Scratch change was not to make witch doctor a top tier school. That portion of my post was dedicated to proposing how Carcarius could become a relevant companion, like the other companions from the trainers. Old Scratch is entirely too powerful in both pve and pvp due to the reasons that have been extensively discussed in this post. Although I agree that my proposals are unlikely to be implemented, I believe that they would be beneficial to the health of the game

Writer, Editor, Administrator, and Pirate PvP guy at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Ensign
Jul 12, 2016
41
Wolf SkullRider on Mar 2, 2017 wrote:
Your first paragraph is a hit and miss. A case can be made for both sides so I'm not going to try to dig deeper into it but in short yes, PvE should in fact be challenging enough to the point where it wouldn't take me 15 minutes to complete a single Kane run. Tower of Moo Manchu and Smuggler's Arena, (the most notable dungeons in the entire game mind you) are meant to be longer, more tedious instances to farm. If you fail just try again, one companion shouldn't be able to have thathuge of an impact in PvE where where the average run time (of all dungeons) is slashed by over half.

Said classes still don't need him to succeed in PvP. Yes, those classes seem severely underrepresented in comparison to Swashbucklers/Buccaneers, but that is mainly because of overall class popularity. There is no direct correlation between which classes are played more/less and the impact that Scratch's buffs have on the entire game.

Also if I am reading your comment right, you seem to be saying that witchdoctor would be inadvertently "inconvenienced" in ranked because you'd see even less of their favorable matchups (Privateers/Musketeers)? It's bold to imply that people would stop using those classes over ONE companion nerf, though if they aren't that common to begin with then would you see much of a difference in usage anyways?

Also that statement alone only hinders the point you are trying to make (which I do understand) that a nerf to Scratch would be devastating to the point that people would drop entire classes in PvP altogether. There are plenty of other companions that would make do in his place, so your point in that regard isn't very convincing imo.

As they say, "to each their own" I suppose, but one should try to look at and consider the bigger picture first before making unreasonable/biased comments.
There is a point for somewhat harder PvE perhaps, though I wouldn't really agree with making it harder.

Concerning PvP:
What I'm saying is not unreasonable, its moreso unreasonable to suggest that a companion who has been brought into the meta because of these buffs should have them taken away; this would only affect the least played classes, and the meta should always strive towards inclusivity, which is the opposite of what we'd be doing by nerfing scratch. That's not to say that these classes need scratch to win in ranked, but for those more inclined to take the easy route, couldn't you see how nerfing this widely used companion would result in many leaving these already underplayed classes for buccaneer and swashbuckler? If those 2 classes are already more played throughout the game as you say (I can agree with you on buckler, but I'm more skeptical about buccaneer) then we have bigger problems to worry about anyways.

Long story short, I'm not saying that musket and privy need scratch to win in ranked, or that it would single handedly drop them to extinction. I'm saying that its an unnecessary move given that scratch's buffs were added to help all ranged classes in ranked and its smaller board sizes, and we've been ok with this for a year and a half at this point. It would seem too abstract at this point, and wouldn't really help to buff witch at the end of it. Wasn't the original idea here to buff witch, not nerf scratch?

I'd be open to pursuing a path where carcarius is buffed without nerfing scratch, like giving him 4-5 range, buffing his accuracy, giving him access to mojo rising, and giving him a couple mournsongs (maybe even giving him a couple mojo buffs too, again without nerfing scratch).

First Mate
Sep 13, 2010
402
anecorbie on Mar 2, 2017 wrote:
Ok guys, just one question - why should an universal companion be nerfed just to make a single class more competitive in PVP?
I want WD to be competitive, but it's not necessary to do this by reducing the usefulness of a single companion in PVE or PVP.
Let's discuss ways of making WD more effective in PVP and leave Old Scratch out of the discussion, because it's very unlikely that KI will do as the OP has suggested.
Boost Carcarious any way you want, but leave Old Scratch alone.
well it's a little bit more complicated than "carl ruined it for us so nobody gets to use their phone class for the rest of the semester." and what you're saying is exactly what KI initially did in adding the mojo buffs. here's an analogy

-=french fry contest=-
alright everyone step right up, whoever possesses the most french fries wins
contestants
  • chuck norris
  • a bag containing 900 french fries
  • your grandmother's ashes
  • a dog whomst once appeared on the tv show knight rider
alright everyone we have enough contestants, now to start off each player is dealt 7 french fries. (5 minutes later) ok now i will remove 6 french fries from each player's hand. (another 5 minutes later) your grandmother's ashes wins! and there ya have it folks. it was a close match but i never lost faith, not for one second, i knew she could pull it off. and another spectacular performance for the bag containing 900 french fries. great game, great game.

my analogy is almost as mysterious to me as the reasoning behind your argument

you're saying 1) that it's illogical to give witchdoctors exclusive access to the advantages that were once intended to help them exclusively but given to everybody instead, and 2) that we should all shut up and get over the fact that old scratch is overpowered because KI doesn't care about our problems

"it's not necessary to do this by reducing the usefulness of a single companion in PVE or PVP" - that's kind of an overgeneralization. i guess we might as well give bonnie anne blood flames, black fog, and infinite health and then not try to fix it because she's just a single companion, cause like what could she do?

Lieutenant
Jun 08, 2009
126
It would be nice if KI would give us more context on how they want witchdoctors as a class to grow and be played. For example unlike it's sister game Pirate101 has no absolute best gear set in regards to pvp. The combinations of different gear help with different match ups. You can set your gear towards a specific matchup but lose strength in another so it creates a very diverse rock/paper/scissors scenario in regards to your gear as well as your class.

However when it comes to witches it feels the only strategy that seems to give consistent results is summon spam and mojo buffed shields/attacks while the other classes have indefinitely more room to play with and more strategies.

From my experiences facing them in separate arena's their problems stem from 2 factors.
1. The size of the board
2. Their lack of pressure early given to not having vision

The smaller the board the better a melee unit is and the worst a ranged one is. And given they can safely buff and shield behind boxes while a witch is forced to not use any powers prematurely. The danger is doubled when a Nausica and Goronado are put into the equation since both of these can chain a witch from full hp to zero. Witchdoctors are not without defenses after all numerous Valor's armors and summons can make up for that however it still feels very lopsided because of the turns they have to set up.

While a swash or buccaneer require 1-4 to get in range, set up and attack the witch requires more so to get the most of their powers effectively.

So my question is how does KI want witch to be played? if they are happy with it then they intend witch to be reliant on scratch and stay at the bottom but this is mostly from problems due to their arenas and not so much from the class perspective.

As for Carcarius he needs a full rework i'm afraid Purge magic is never useful in pve and not worth having on a witch team for pvp.

Lieutenant
Mar 23, 2012
184
Throwing in my two cents here.

Has anyone considered just changing purge magic so that it doesn't affect allies? To balance it out after that you could limit it to one use per match. That would make the power (and Carcarius by extention) a more viable option.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10123
AndrewDeathblade11... on Mar 10, 2017 wrote:
well it's a little bit more complicated than "carl ruined it for us so nobody gets to use their phone class for the rest of the semester." and what you're saying is exactly what KI initially did in adding the mojo buffs. here's an analogy

-=french fry contest=-
alright everyone step right up, whoever possesses the most french fries wins
contestants
  • chuck norris
  • a bag containing 900 french fries
  • your grandmother's ashes
  • a dog whomst once appeared on the tv show knight rider
alright everyone we have enough contestants, now to start off each player is dealt 7 french fries. (5 minutes later) ok now i will remove 6 french fries from each player's hand. (another 5 minutes later) your grandmother's ashes wins! and there ya have it folks. it was a close match but i never lost faith, not for one second, i knew she could pull it off. and another spectacular performance for the bag containing 900 french fries. great game, great game.

my analogy is almost as mysterious to me as the reasoning behind your argument

you're saying 1) that it's illogical to give witchdoctors exclusive access to the advantages that were once intended to help them exclusively but given to everybody instead, and 2) that we should all shut up and get over the fact that old scratch is overpowered because KI doesn't care about our problems

"it's not necessary to do this by reducing the usefulness of a single companion in PVE or PVP" - that's kind of an overgeneralization. i guess we might as well give bonnie anne blood flames, black fog, and infinite health and then not try to fix it because she's just a single companion, cause like what could she do?
Let's just take your analogy to exclusivity - Privateers have the most heals, let's just remove Bonnie Anne's healing ability ( and her ability to heal has a wider range than a Priv's comparative heal ) and let only Privs or Privateer companions have heals.
Maybe you shouldn't have access to hides by training or gear. Or be able to train poison or get it from gear.
Or access to Valor or Kraken's Lament?
The subject of this post is how to make Carcarius viable for PVP not let's see how we can weaken Old Scratch.

Community Leader
anecorbie on Mar 13, 2017 wrote:
Let's just take your analogy to exclusivity - Privateers have the most heals, let's just remove Bonnie Anne's healing ability ( and her ability to heal has a wider range than a Priv's comparative heal ) and let only Privs or Privateer companions have heals.
Maybe you shouldn't have access to hides by training or gear. Or be able to train poison or get it from gear.
Or access to Valor or Kraken's Lament?
The subject of this post is how to make Carcarius viable for PVP not let's see how we can weaken Old Scratch.
This scratch problem is one of basic game design. Having some overlap between abilities in various "classes/colors/schools" is ok, but giving something to all classes without restriction that fits only one, isn't good design. It's ok for other classes to have heals, privies will have more. It's ok to have access to protection, buccs and privies will have more. The same is true for hides and swashbuckler. Buffing one's mojo is an ability that makes sense for only witch. Giving each class the ability to buff mojo just as much as witch isn't good design or balance.

Writer, Editor, Administrator, and Pirate PvP guy at FinalBastion

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Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
anecorbie on Mar 13, 2017 wrote:
Let's just take your analogy to exclusivity - Privateers have the most heals, let's just remove Bonnie Anne's healing ability ( and her ability to heal has a wider range than a Priv's comparative heal ) and let only Privs or Privateer companions have heals.
Maybe you shouldn't have access to hides by training or gear. Or be able to train poison or get it from gear.
Or access to Valor or Kraken's Lament?
The subject of this post is how to make Carcarius viable for PVP not let's see how we can weaken Old Scratch.
It seems to me that you're just playing devil's advocate at this point and being rather close-minded and unreasonable with your "suggestions". Old Scratch was brought up due to his relevance in the meta with witchdoctors.

If you don't like someone's idea you have every right to disagree but posts like this aren't constructive at all and are frankly, unwanted. The subject of this post is Carcarius and witchdoctors in PvP, not "how impede productive discussion".

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