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What witchdoctors need to be balanced in pvp

AuthorMessage
Gunner's Mate
Dec 25, 2015
285
WItchdoctors are the worst class in pvp and need some help. I will tell exactly what they need.

1.witch hunter. Their is a very simple way to fix this, make it so witch hunter goes off after you hit, it still does damage and still decreases damage from things like readied spell it just doesn't remove our damage so much we can't kill something as weak as old shiruku neko.

2.power bans. Ban highland charge black fog and battle zeal. charm was one of our main powers and it was taken away, so until it comes the other classes key powers need to be banned for the balance of pvp. Muskets struggle enough so they deserve no bans.

3.Companions. witchdoctor companions also need help. I say allow all of them access to mojo rising and jobus ruse, might be a bit much but i think they deserve it.

3B. carcarius grimtooth aka low damage fizzle master. Fan Flanders, The marchioness, chantal livingstone, peter quint. Why am I listing the names of 4 of the class trainer 5 you ask? To show that carcarius is the worst of them. Chantal could blast down carcarius before he got to her and the rest could rip him to shreds with chains in a single round. So carcarius needs a big damage dealing strike, Witchdoctor critical cards perhaps?

So yea, witch needs lots of help and this is how to do it.

Lieutenant
Jan 23, 2011
109
100% Agree that Carcarius needs to be buffed a lot. They claimed we will be getting really great companions when they came out, but every class but witchdoctor got a great companion. On my Witch, I ignore Carcarius and use more viable companions every battle.

Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
161
kingme655 on Aug 29, 2017 wrote:
WItchdoctors are the worst class in pvp and need some help. I will tell exactly what they need.

1.witch hunter. Their is a very simple way to fix this, make it so witch hunter goes off after you hit, it still does damage and still decreases damage from things like readied spell it just doesn't remove our damage so much we can't kill something as weak as old shiruku neko.

2.power bans. Ban highland charge black fog and battle zeal. charm was one of our main powers and it was taken away, so until it comes the other classes key powers need to be banned for the balance of pvp. Muskets struggle enough so they deserve no bans.

3.Companions. witchdoctor companions also need help. I say allow all of them access to mojo rising and jobus ruse, might be a bit much but i think they deserve it.

3B. carcarius grimtooth aka low damage fizzle master. Fan Flanders, The marchioness, chantal livingstone, peter quint. Why am I listing the names of 4 of the class trainer 5 you ask? To show that carcarius is the worst of them. Chantal could blast down carcarius before he got to her and the rest could rip him to shreds with chains in a single round. So carcarius needs a big damage dealing strike, Witchdoctor critical cards perhaps?

So yea, witch needs lots of help and this is how to do it.
I disagree entirely with point 2 for multiple reasons:
1. I don't think powers should be banned at all if possible from PvP. They're something that should be adjusted via nerf/buffs instead. Their a core part of what makes PvP have more than just RNG.

I would rather see them adjust the Charm power. There is even an easy solution, though coding it is the problem I bet:

Take control of an enemy unit until the start of your next turn.

Witch Hunter just shouldn't exist in the first place. It's stupid that there is an anti-class talent universally accessible. I would be all for Swashbucklers to have it not just due to balancing but also just because an Assassin hunting something makes sense. Overall it's an unfair design mostly being universally accessable. I don't think just removing them outright is entirely the best course however. There are much better ways to go about it.

Though I completely side with your final point on companions. KI should definitely try to buff Witchdoctor companions in some shape or form to make them a bit more worth it. Right now the only played Witchdoctor companion isn't even used for his Epic's like most Companions are used for. That being Old Scratch simply for his absurd spell power buff.

Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
826
the main thing holding back witch doctors is how crits work and witch hunter, simply change both and witches are once again very viable

Lieutenant
Sep 04, 2013
132
kingme655 on Aug 29, 2017 wrote:
WItchdoctors are the worst class in pvp and need some help. I will tell exactly what they need.

1.witch hunter. Their is a very simple way to fix this, make it so witch hunter goes off after you hit, it still does damage and still decreases damage from things like readied spell it just doesn't remove our damage so much we can't kill something as weak as old shiruku neko.

2.power bans. Ban highland charge black fog and battle zeal. charm was one of our main powers and it was taken away, so until it comes the other classes key powers need to be banned for the balance of pvp. Muskets struggle enough so they deserve no bans.

3.Companions. witchdoctor companions also need help. I say allow all of them access to mojo rising and jobus ruse, might be a bit much but i think they deserve it.

3B. carcarius grimtooth aka low damage fizzle master. Fan Flanders, The marchioness, chantal livingstone, peter quint. Why am I listing the names of 4 of the class trainer 5 you ask? To show that carcarius is the worst of them. Chantal could blast down carcarius before he got to her and the rest could rip him to shreds with chains in a single round. So carcarius needs a big damage dealing strike, Witchdoctor critical cards perhaps?

So yea, witch needs lots of help and this is how to do it.
I think the main reason witchdoctors need help in pvp would be because of Witchhunter, it's essentially a permanent 50% shield, it even works when they aren't in range to use it or they miss the attack which is pretty broken, should be reverted to its old form or reworked again
Your second idea is just unrealistic, nerfing every other class just to make witchdoctors competitive isn't really the best way of doing it
Even if witchdoctors companions got increased accuracy and new talents I think they'd still be pretty useless because all of them except old scratch have a range of 3, which is pretty low and allows musketeers like Bonnie Anne to just destroy them before they get into attack range. Maybe they should get dramatically increased Strength and Agility so other classes don't destroy them so easily with criticals

Ensign
Jul 12, 2016
41
kingme655 on Aug 29, 2017 wrote:
WItchdoctors are the worst class in pvp and need some help. I will tell exactly what they need.

1.witch hunter. Their is a very simple way to fix this, make it so witch hunter goes off after you hit, it still does damage and still decreases damage from things like readied spell it just doesn't remove our damage so much we can't kill something as weak as old shiruku neko.

2.power bans. Ban highland charge black fog and battle zeal. charm was one of our main powers and it was taken away, so until it comes the other classes key powers need to be banned for the balance of pvp. Muskets struggle enough so they deserve no bans.

3.Companions. witchdoctor companions also need help. I say allow all of them access to mojo rising and jobus ruse, might be a bit much but i think they deserve it.

3B. carcarius grimtooth aka low damage fizzle master. Fan Flanders, The marchioness, chantal livingstone, peter quint. Why am I listing the names of 4 of the class trainer 5 you ask? To show that carcarius is the worst of them. Chantal could blast down carcarius before he got to her and the rest could rip him to shreds with chains in a single round. So carcarius needs a big damage dealing strike, Witchdoctor critical cards perhaps?

So yea, witch needs lots of help and this is how to do it.
Witch hunter definitely needs a major nerf. As it is now, you can be adjacent to the witch, and without your witch hunter even triggering, you'll get an automatic 50% damage block. Definitely one of the most broken epics in pvp. The change was supposedly more for future pve updates, but most wd mobs use weapon power attacks, so the earlier witch hunter would have been much better. The best fix would be to either remove the fort effect or prevent chains off of witch hunter, since it's a spell power attack... even both imo.

Opposite of banning powers, I think things like charm and frozen tide should be "fixed" and unbanned. It's been more than 2 years, it's about time.

Witch doctor companion buffs would be awesome, its yet another area where witches keep getting the short end of the stick. Increased range, accuracy, and better powers/epics are a good place to start.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9550
Friendly Jesse Pew on Sep 12, 2017 wrote:
I think the main reason witchdoctors need help in pvp would be because of Witchhunter, it's essentially a permanent 50% shield, it even works when they aren't in range to use it or they miss the attack which is pretty broken, should be reverted to its old form or reworked again
Your second idea is just unrealistic, nerfing every other class just to make witchdoctors competitive isn't really the best way of doing it
Even if witchdoctors companions got increased accuracy and new talents I think they'd still be pretty useless because all of them except old scratch have a range of 3, which is pretty low and allows musketeers like Bonnie Anne to just destroy them before they get into attack range. Maybe they should get dramatically increased Strength and Agility so other classes don't destroy them so easily with criticals
Giving a few the Eagle Eyes Talent would help for range.

Petty Officer
Jan 09, 2013
79
Fully agreed on fixing Witch companions/players and definitely increasing their accuracy. However, I think most people don't realize what they're talking about when it comes to Witch Hunter. First of all, lack of experience and knowledge about Witch class is causing some very reckless suggestions here.

NO, Witch Hunter should not be removed nor nerfed. I don't know how much experience any of you have in PVP; because there is only one thing that matters to a Witch, and if you know what it is, you wouldn't care about the current form of Witch Hunter.

BTW, if you don't have a Witch, please don't make suggestions on its behalf.

Community Leader
Tactician0 on Oct 5, 2017 wrote:
Fully agreed on fixing Witch companions/players and definitely increasing their accuracy. However, I think most people don't realize what they're talking about when it comes to Witch Hunter. First of all, lack of experience and knowledge about Witch class is causing some very reckless suggestions here.

NO, Witch Hunter should not be removed nor nerfed. I don't know how much experience any of you have in PVP; because there is only one thing that matters to a Witch, and if you know what it is, you wouldn't care about the current form of Witch Hunter.

BTW, if you don't have a Witch, please don't make suggestions on its behalf.
OK, I'll bite. Mr. Witch PvP God, what matters to a witch so much that could cause them to not care about witch hunter? I've champed on buckler the past few seasons, having faced a fair amount of witches. Standing next to them with witch hunter pretty much guarantees a win. Almost the entire PvP community agrees on the fact witch hunter is unbalanced. I'd like to see a specific and detailed explanation of why it's not, in your opinion.

Writer and PvP enthusiast at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Petty Officer
Dec 26, 2012
54
Tactician0 on Oct 5, 2017 wrote:
Fully agreed on fixing Witch companions/players and definitely increasing their accuracy. However, I think most people don't realize what they're talking about when it comes to Witch Hunter. First of all, lack of experience and knowledge about Witch class is causing some very reckless suggestions here.

NO, Witch Hunter should not be removed nor nerfed. I don't know how much experience any of you have in PVP; because there is only one thing that matters to a Witch, and if you know what it is, you wouldn't care about the current form of Witch Hunter.

BTW, if you don't have a Witch, please don't make suggestions on its behalf.
I disagree with the Witch Hunter statement. There's no reason why a class has to be automatically put in a disadvantage because of one simple talent. It eliminates the usage of Mojo Blade/Reaver and before you say "they need to be close for it to work", Musketeers can learn the talent too and it's not that hard to pressure a Witchdoctor no matter how good they are. You can only play the "keep away" game for so long.

Personally I don't have many issues with it, but I can agree that it's unnecessary overall. Witchdoctors are glass cannons, they don't need any more weaknesses when it's relatively easy to chain hits on them and they have laughable dodge and accuracy.

Ensign
Jul 12, 2016
41
Tactician0 on Oct 5, 2017 wrote:
Fully agreed on fixing Witch companions/players and definitely increasing their accuracy. However, I think most people don't realize what they're talking about when it comes to Witch Hunter. First of all, lack of experience and knowledge about Witch class is causing some very reckless suggestions here.

NO, Witch Hunter should not be removed nor nerfed. I don't know how much experience any of you have in PVP; because there is only one thing that matters to a Witch, and if you know what it is, you wouldn't care about the current form of Witch Hunter.

BTW, if you don't have a Witch, please don't make suggestions on its behalf.
You are totally wrong here mate. No other class besides witch is subject to an epic tailored to their class specifically and makes them deal with a perma fort. Many other pvp champs who have played witch as well as myself agree that it's totally broken. But just out of curiosity, what is this "thing" that you're talking about, and how much experience do you have in pvp?

Petty Officer
Jan 09, 2013
79
Matthew525011 on Oct 5, 2017 wrote:
OK, I'll bite. Mr. Witch PvP God, what matters to a witch so much that could cause them to not care about witch hunter? I've champed on buckler the past few seasons, having faced a fair amount of witches. Standing next to them with witch hunter pretty much guarantees a win. Almost the entire PvP community agrees on the fact witch hunter is unbalanced. I'd like to see a specific and detailed explanation of why it's not, in your opinion.
First, are you offended?

- I said Witch Hunter shouldn't be inaccessible to Witch class.
- I said Witch Hunter shouldn't be nerfed.

Would you like to remind me of where exactly I said that Witch Hunter should be universally accessible and is not imbalanced?

Please do think before you speak next time.

Petty Officer
Jan 09, 2013
79
AllToonedUp on Oct 5, 2017 wrote:
I disagree with the Witch Hunter statement. There's no reason why a class has to be automatically put in a disadvantage because of one simple talent. It eliminates the usage of Mojo Blade/Reaver and before you say "they need to be close for it to work", Musketeers can learn the talent too and it's not that hard to pressure a Witchdoctor no matter how good they are. You can only play the "keep away" game for so long.

Personally I don't have many issues with it, but I can agree that it's unnecessary overall. Witchdoctors are glass cannons, they don't need any more weaknesses when it's relatively easy to chain hits on them and they have laughable dodge and accuracy.
I salute you for the mature brain you are for not using the disrespectful technique of name-calling. In which case I would like to respectfully clear a certain misunderstanding which has occurred in this situation. When I said Witch Hunter shouldn't be removed; I didn't mean from other classes; but from Witch itself. I can start a whole new topic on why isn't any class but Witch eligible to own Witch Hunter. Also when I said that a Witch shouldn't care about the current form of Witch Hunter; I didn't mean not caring about the fact that other classes can use it; but the current status of the card itself shouldn't matter.

Community Leader
Tactician0 on Oct 6, 2017 wrote:
I salute you for the mature brain you are for not using the disrespectful technique of name-calling. In which case I would like to respectfully clear a certain misunderstanding which has occurred in this situation. When I said Witch Hunter shouldn't be removed; I didn't mean from other classes; but from Witch itself. I can start a whole new topic on why isn't any class but Witch eligible to own Witch Hunter. Also when I said that a Witch shouldn't care about the current form of Witch Hunter; I didn't mean not caring about the fact that other classes can use it; but the current status of the card itself shouldn't matter.
Here's the issue: Witch Hunter is absolutely, 100% unfair in the hands of other classes in its current form.

Witchdoctors having witch hunter (in its current form even) is pretty much fine. That's not particularly problematic. The problem arises when the other 4 classes can easily deal 1000-2000 damage to a witch (a buck with a strength buff can one round a witch with ease off of a witch hunter) and get a 50% damage reduction to that spell. It's very likely that the witch ends up taking as much, if not more damage than they do to their opponent. This all but forces witchdoctors to utilize summon spam, overwatch 5, or other measures to prevent an opponent from reaching them early on.

Writer and PvP enthusiast at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Community Leader
Tactician0 on Oct 6, 2017 wrote:
First, are you offended?

- I said Witch Hunter shouldn't be inaccessible to Witch class.
- I said Witch Hunter shouldn't be nerfed.

Would you like to remind me of where exactly I said that Witch Hunter should be universally accessible and is not imbalanced?

Please do think before you speak next time.
No, I'm not offended.

  • Witch hunter is accessible for witchdoctors, I have no idea what you're talking about. Any class can train it at the secret trainer. However, I'd be willing to consider it being a witch exclusive.
  • If it's not a witch exclusive talent, Witch hunter SHOULD absolutely be nerfed/changed. Other classes can easily do 1000-2000 damage to a witchdoctor off of one witch hunter hit and the ensuing relentlesses/burst fires and bladestorms/double taps. In my mind, that's a bit broken. There's a reason why, with the exception of one player (Quentin), there are no witches that are reliably able to stay above 200 rank. Witch hunter plays a big part in that.

Writer and PvP enthusiast at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Ensign
Jul 12, 2016
41
Tactician0 on Oct 6, 2017 wrote:
First, are you offended?

- I said Witch Hunter shouldn't be inaccessible to Witch class.
- I said Witch Hunter shouldn't be nerfed.

Would you like to remind me of where exactly I said that Witch Hunter should be universally accessible and is not imbalanced?

Please do think before you speak next time.
"I said Witch Hunter shouldn't be inaccessible to Witch class."
Actually you didn't say that, perhaps that's what you meant?

Again, please explain why you think witch hunter is balanced as it is, and your experiences to prove that witch is such an op class that it needs the biggest handicap of any class in pvp. Thanks in advance!

Petty Officer
Jan 09, 2013
79
Matthew525011 on Oct 6, 2017 wrote:
No, I'm not offended.

  • Witch hunter is accessible for witchdoctors, I have no idea what you're talking about. Any class can train it at the secret trainer. However, I'd be willing to consider it being a witch exclusive.
  • If it's not a witch exclusive talent, Witch hunter SHOULD absolutely be nerfed/changed. Other classes can easily do 1000-2000 damage to a witchdoctor off of one witch hunter hit and the ensuing relentlesses/burst fires and bladestorms/double taps. In my mind, that's a bit broken. There's a reason why, with the exception of one player (Quentin), there are no witches that are reliably able to stay above 200 rank. Witch hunter plays a big part in that.
What do you mean above 200 rank? Not sure what ranks you're speaking of.

Petty Officer
Jan 09, 2013
79
TalonThundercloud on Oct 6, 2017 wrote:
"I said Witch Hunter shouldn't be inaccessible to Witch class."
Actually you didn't say that, perhaps that's what you meant?

Again, please explain why you think witch hunter is balanced as it is, and your experiences to prove that witch is such an op class that it needs the biggest handicap of any class in pvp. Thanks in advance!
Why are you repeating yourself? I never said Witch Hunter is balanced. I also never said that Witch class is OP; if anything, Witch is the weakest and least promising class as of now.

Community Leader
Tactician0 on Oct 7, 2017 wrote:
What do you mean above 200 rank? Not sure what ranks you're speaking of.
Ranked PvP? The main form of PvP in the game?

Writer and PvP enthusiast at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Ensign
Jul 12, 2016
41
Tactician0 on Oct 7, 2017 wrote:
What do you mean above 200 rank? Not sure what ranks you're speaking of.
This quite evidently shows that you have no ranked experience to speak of.

Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
Tactician0 on Oct 7, 2017 wrote:
Why are you repeating yourself? I never said Witch Hunter is balanced. I also never said that Witch class is OP; if anything, Witch is the weakest and least promising class as of now.
"NO, Witch Hunter should not be removed nor nerfed."

Um, that's pretty much exactly what you said/implied though in your earlier post. Anyways though, you've been making statements defending witch hunter despite being presented with evidence as to why it is indeed broken and in need of a nerf.

When you say that "witch hunter shouldn't be removed from witch", I believe you're causing some confusion as to what exactly you mean since no one was suggesting that it be removed, only rebalanced. Also yes, you're correct that witch is the "weakest and least promising class as of now" but that is solely because of how bad the witch hunter talent cripples them (not sure why you said it was a card earlier).

As a seasoned ranked PvP champion myself (which is what Matthew5250 was referring to with rank), I can assure that one doesn't need to have a witchdoctor or firsthand experience of playing the class to know that it isn't as good as it can and should be because of witch hunter.

In addition, I feel that many of your comments have been somewhat ignorant so I think that you should reevaluate your argument and what you're trying to say so that the many of us regular pvp players won't have to consistently correct and educate you.

Petty Officer
Jan 09, 2013
79
TalonThundercloud on Oct 7, 2017 wrote:
This quite evidently shows that you have no ranked experience to speak of.
I don't do Ranked PvP.

Petty Officer
Jan 09, 2013
79
Someone up above said that Witch Hunter should be removed; but they didn't say from other classes only. So I said it shouldn't be removed from Witches; in case that person included Witch class in his Witch Hunter removal argument.

You say that Witch class is weak because of how Witch Hunter cripples them; but then you speak of MY ignorance!

Tell me, how is it my ignorance, when I have read and answered all of the replies here; meanwhile, none of you has realized that I agree with everything everyone has said here?

So:
1- I had clearly denied and proved that everything anyone has accused me of is INCORRECT.
2- I had clearly explained that this is a misunderstanding.
3- I had meticulously cleared up every literal confusion, word by word, for you to comprehend.

Conclusion: by repeating the same accusations and the same argument over and over again; you have literally ignored all of the 3 points I mentioned above.

In which case, am I the ignorant one here?

On a side note: how can you educate someone about something he fully knows and understands.. already!

Ensign
Jul 12, 2016
41
Ok, since we know he doesn't do ranked, let's get back to topic... Matthew claimed earlier that witch hunter is broken to the point where it forces the witch to employ even more broken tactics such as overwatch 5 and summon spam to win. I'll attest, luckily for me I have the Armada musket and trees to create a buffer between me and my opponent. The thing is, I hate doing that. Witch has never been that great of a class in ranked, but at one point I was able to do pretty well with flames or scorps, without an overwatch 5 companion. Truth be told, that way is a lot more fun too. It requires me to actually think about how I'm gonna carry out my strategy and placement beyond "I'll put trees here banner there and fort my Armada companion," without having to rely on said trees and companions for any hope of winning. I personally think witch hunter should be banned in pvp, (I'm not in expert in code or anything but they did the same thing with charming gaze so I'm assuming it can also be tweaked for witch hunter) so the pve experience isn't affected, but the witch class is able to receive equal treatment in PvP.

Community Leader
Tactician0 on Oct 8, 2017 wrote:
Someone up above said that Witch Hunter should be removed; but they didn't say from other classes only. So I said it shouldn't be removed from Witches; in case that person included Witch class in his Witch Hunter removal argument.

You say that Witch class is weak because of how Witch Hunter cripples them; but then you speak of MY ignorance!

Tell me, how is it my ignorance, when I have read and answered all of the replies here; meanwhile, none of you has realized that I agree with everything everyone has said here?

So:
1- I had clearly denied and proved that everything anyone has accused me of is INCORRECT.
2- I had clearly explained that this is a misunderstanding.
3- I had meticulously cleared up every literal confusion, word by word, for you to comprehend.

Conclusion: by repeating the same accusations and the same argument over and over again; you have literally ignored all of the 3 points I mentioned above.

In which case, am I the ignorant one here?

On a side note: how can you educate someone about something he fully knows and understands.. already!
Yes. The witch class is weaker than it needs to be because witch hunter cripples them. I, and others, have clearly addressed how witch hunter adversely affects the class. You obviously do not understand how witch hunter adversely affects witch doctor, especially since you don't do ranked pvp (I'm hoping you AT LEAST do Pirate101Central PvP). If you don't do any form of sanctioned pvp (central or ranked) and base your "knowledge" of witchdoctor pvp on casual 1v1 and group matches in spar chamber, I can see why you are so ill-informed. These casual matches do not, in any way, shape, or form, reflect the current PvP metagame. Try entering the ranked arena, or doing a pirate101central tournament on witchdoctor. You'll very quickly see why witch hunter harms the witchdoctor class.

Writer and PvP enthusiast at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP