the future of pvp

1
AuthorMessage
Bosun
Feb 25, 2012
324
I am gonna keep this short and sweet: love the game, cant get enough of it. the strategy based combat is enthralling, and all the different abilities, gear, and companions are absolutely addicting to somebody that likes to experiment. PvP is especially interesting. personally, i guess i would categorize myself as a 'soft' core pvper. i like the strategy involved, and i will go farm for good gear, but there are a few things that turn me away from it alot of the time. namely, getting in a fight and finding out a few moments later that all your allies are level four. not so much fun. now, before anybody feels the need to repeat that angelic singer, ratbeard, i will myself.

"i have not even begun to consider thinking about thinking about balancing classes for pvp, Etc. Etc."

I paraphrased a little bit, as i cannot remember the exact quote. hope i got the gist of it, at the very least. anyway, i would like to know: is a more regulated pvp system in the works? i am not asking for a date, or specifics, and i am not complaining at all (I am completely infatuated with the game, to be honest) i would just like to know something that i think you all should be able to tell me, since it is not related to the story. that being said, i understand if you cant answer. or even worse, i receive that most crushing of all non-answers, that deadly phrase from that fiendish feline..... That would be telling.............

Developer
1) The top of my To Do list for PVP is fixing buff stacking. Long story short, buff stacking was not implemented in a manner satisfactory to either me or the Tech Lead. We want to fix it, we're empowered to fix it, we know how we're going to fix it, and we ARE going to fix it.

2) We have another To Do to break up the current brawlin' halls into multiple, leveled battle arenas-- levels 15 and below go through this door, 16-30 through here, etc.. This is not ranked PvP, but just a means of getting the right players into the right arenas with players who are about the same level. This task, unfortunately, must take a back seat to other (more exciting!) new content we're working on. If we get a window to squeeze it in, we will. It's not a small task, as it involves Art, Tech, and Design all together.

3) We have the ability to set any battleboard to turn on and off various options like pets and doubloons, and could potentially add other options like Crowns companions, non-class powers, etc. to help you customize your "vanilla" experience.

4) When ranked PvP arrives, we'll likely include practice halls that allow you to play with those options.

5) Ranked PvP assumes, as its baseline, the entirety of the game. If it is available in the game, it's fair game in PvP.

I watch with interest, amusement, and no small amount of dismay the periodic "rules updates" posted at Central. It should be interesting to see how players who are accustomed to house rules fare in the official ranked environment, when it arrives.

"i have not even begun to consider thinking about thinking about balancing classes for pvp"

Not so! I have not yet begun to balance for PvP, but I have definitely started to consider thinking about thinking about balancing classes for PvP.

Lieutenant
Aug 29, 2008
145
Hey Ratbeard, thank you for your update on what is to come. I'm sure a lot of us have been waiting patiently for PvP update for a while now.

Glad to know something is in the works for stacking buffs. At the moment, stacking multiple defensive buffs can make someone invincible, and at the same time stacking too many agility/will/strength buffs makes companions relentless and critical nonstop.

While I do agree for the most part that "if it is available in the game, it's fair game in PvP", I feel at least doubloons in ranked PvP are worth taking a look at. People like to compare doubloons in Pirate to treasure cards in Wizards and like to make the argument that if TCs are allowed in Wizards, it should be allowed in Pirate PvP. I don't agree with this argument because of the way doubloons work in Pirates. In Wizards if you use a treasure card it uses up your turn, that is the ONLY action your player does that turn. In Pirates, it does not work that way. You use a doubloon and your player character still gets to do a second action/power, pretty much going "twice" in one turn. The way this works together with certain doubloons could make PvP a very bad experienced.

For example, what is to stop a player from stacking up on 20 of each the level 55, level 60, and level 65 Jackrabbit Juju doubloons and trading the rest of his doubloons to another character. This would mean that when the player walks into the arena, every turn he would get a Jackrabbit Juju doubloon no matter what and for 60 turns he has empowered units with extra talents every time. This is possible right now in the arena and can be done with any other doubloon (health, weapon-power, spell power, etc). Something like this would definitely break ranked PvP. So at the very least I think you guys should look into limiting the amount of the same-name doubloons a player can use.

As for Central players, if W101 and W101 Central are any indication, they will do more than just fine once ranked comes out.

Lieutenant
Aug 09, 2013
156
Ratbeard on Sep 22, 2014 wrote:
1) The top of my To Do list for PVP is fixing buff stacking. Long story short, buff stacking was not implemented in a manner satisfactory to either me or the Tech Lead. We want to fix it, we're empowered to fix it, we know how we're going to fix it, and we ARE going to fix it.

2) We have another To Do to break up the current brawlin' halls into multiple, leveled battle arenas-- levels 15 and below go through this door, 16-30 through here, etc.. This is not ranked PvP, but just a means of getting the right players into the right arenas with players who are about the same level. This task, unfortunately, must take a back seat to other (more exciting!) new content we're working on. If we get a window to squeeze it in, we will. It's not a small task, as it involves Art, Tech, and Design all together.

3) We have the ability to set any battleboard to turn on and off various options like pets and doubloons, and could potentially add other options like Crowns companions, non-class powers, etc. to help you customize your "vanilla" experience.

4) When ranked PvP arrives, we'll likely include practice halls that allow you to play with those options.

5) Ranked PvP assumes, as its baseline, the entirety of the game. If it is available in the game, it's fair game in PvP.

I watch with interest, amusement, and no small amount of dismay the periodic "rules updates" posted at Central. It should be interesting to see how players who are accustomed to house rules fare in the official ranked environment, when it arrives.

"i have not even begun to consider thinking about thinking about balancing classes for pvp"

Not so! I have not yet begun to balance for PvP, but I have definitely started to consider thinking about thinking about balancing classes for PvP.
Buff stacking... What does that mean exactly? Does that mean we can't use 2 of the same buffs? Ex. You can't use two Espirit De Corps (sorry if I misspelled that) in the same round it was casted? I mean, I don't mind if this feature was implemented, but I just want to get a little more understanding as to what that means exactly. See you in the Spiral

Developer
Scurvy Anthony Wal... on Sep 23, 2014 wrote:
Buff stacking... What does that mean exactly? Does that mean we can't use 2 of the same buffs? Ex. You can't use two Espirit De Corps (sorry if I misspelled that) in the same round it was casted? I mean, I don't mind if this feature was implemented, but I just want to get a little more understanding as to what that means exactly. See you in the Spiral
Buff stacking... What does that mean exactly?

If you put two buffs of the same kind onto the same target, then the higher buff (50% vs. 25% for example) takes precedence, but the smaller buff (probably with a longer duration) stays on the unit and will apply again when the larger buff wears off.

Stacking too many agility/will/strength buffs makes companions relentless and critical nonstop.

No, it doesn't. It increases the chance from 1/3 of the time to about 2/3.

Are you seeing relentless and critical hits 100% of the time? I don't think so...

Hyperbole doesn't serve anybody-- in fact, it's extremely harmful, because it puts me in the position of either ignoring (apparently) frivolous complaints, or chasing down false bugs.

It's the same problem with people saying that Hide makes units "invulnerable." That's not what's implemented. As far as I know, you can still target hidden units with AoE attacks and they can still take damage. But I can't tell the difference between a potential bug report, and people just whining.

I can't get in the habit of ignoring complaints, and I also don't want to be chasing down false bugs instead of making the next Gauntlet, or Card Pack, or Hybrid pet.

End rant.

I feel at least doubloons in ranked PvP are worth taking a look at.

Of course.

Captain
Dec 01, 2012
607
Ratbeard on Sep 23, 2014 wrote:
Buff stacking... What does that mean exactly?

If you put two buffs of the same kind onto the same target, then the higher buff (50% vs. 25% for example) takes precedence, but the smaller buff (probably with a longer duration) stays on the unit and will apply again when the larger buff wears off.

Stacking too many agility/will/strength buffs makes companions relentless and critical nonstop.

No, it doesn't. It increases the chance from 1/3 of the time to about 2/3.

Are you seeing relentless and critical hits 100% of the time? I don't think so...

Hyperbole doesn't serve anybody-- in fact, it's extremely harmful, because it puts me in the position of either ignoring (apparently) frivolous complaints, or chasing down false bugs.

It's the same problem with people saying that Hide makes units "invulnerable." That's not what's implemented. As far as I know, you can still target hidden units with AoE attacks and they can still take damage. But I can't tell the difference between a potential bug report, and people just whining.

I can't get in the habit of ignoring complaints, and I also don't want to be chasing down false bugs instead of making the next Gauntlet, or Card Pack, or Hybrid pet.

End rant.

I feel at least doubloons in ranked PvP are worth taking a look at.

Of course.
Masterfully said Ratbeard.Sometimes,you get bugs,real problems that must be fixed as soon as possible!Other,lesser glitches should be,but it is not nearly as urgent.Beyond that,you get misunderstandings,which are best clarified by both player and developer alike(sometimes I'm too oblivious to know what's going on somewhere,and I might look at it as a bug,or an issue,rather than something that's completely normal to most people,but weird to blind old me.)

Lieutenant
Aug 29, 2008
145
Lol fair point. I will try not to use hyperbole when writing to you guys. Even though I don't see how it makes anyone think of "false bugs". If it was a bug, I would be posting on the Bilge Pump, no?

I understand your feelings towards the hidden update based on your posts in the past, but to label the criticism and suggestions people post about it as "whining" is unprofessional to say the least. There is a reason why this change to hidden has gathered such a huge response from the community. Since the moment it was introduced in test topics on it keep being coming up, and yet we keep getting the same response of "use AoE attacks", "use hybrid weapons", etc etc. We are the players playing the game, PvPing and telling you that the AoE attacks and hybrid weapons are not enough to fight against the way hidden works now, yet sometimes it feels our opinions and suggestions are falling on deaf hears. I guarantee you that topics on hidden will keep coming up until some reliable counter-play to it is introduced.

Here's one suggestion, why not re-introduce Scent on a piece of gear? The way it works now a hidden-critical-Assassin Strike is enough to kill a player character in one turn, at least with something reliable like Scent the player will take less damage and not become completely useless in one turn.

Or, another good suggestion I have seen is making overwatch/repelborders rank 3 remove hidden. It gives a tool for players to counter the hidden while still allowing the player using the hidden spell to play around it.

There are many good suggestions that players other than myself have come up with and I wish they were taken more into consideration instead of being considered as players complaining and not adapting to the new changes. But then again, what could the players spending dozens of hours in the brawling hall possibly know about what works and doesn't, right? The future of PvP doesn't look bright unless some changes are made.

-Alex Hawkins/Alex Deathflame

Captain
Jul 16, 2014
670
Ahoy Alex,

Please don't feel that we aren't interested in hearing what you have to say. Feedback from players, including dedicated PVP players, is appreciated and essential. Even if you are frustrated, as long as the post is constructive it is welcome here. The Pirate101 community is consistently awesome and I'm always impressed by the quality of feedback, so keep it coming.

*Bonnie Anne, Your Pirate101 Community Manager*
Lieutenant
Aug 29, 2008
145
Thanks for your response Bonnie. You are right, it seems I am a bit too frustrated. Apologies to Ratbeard, I got a little carried away with my previous response. Glad to know you guys are listening.

Commodore
Jul 07, 2013
960
What would the difference in buff stacking be? As a privateer buffs and heals are what most of our power cards are yet somehow I feel that the powers of a privateer have been somewhat diminished in favor of classes that offer more of a melee style. I am not a pvp player but it seems changes to the classes and how the powers work are focused more on players who do pvp mainly. The new changes have already devalued privateers as a job class. My privateer is my main character and the only max player I have. I intend to keep it that way and I like being a privateer but if I am not enough to protect and heal my party what point and purpose do I serve?

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2699
Bonnie Anne on Sep 24, 2014 wrote:
Ahoy Alex,

Please don't feel that we aren't interested in hearing what you have to say. Feedback from players, including dedicated PVP players, is appreciated and essential. Even if you are frustrated, as long as the post is constructive it is welcome here. The Pirate101 community is consistently awesome and I'm always impressed by the quality of feedback, so keep it coming.
Ahoy Bonnie- I'm only quoting for the extra 1000 characters & because my post isn't a direct reply to anyone in particular.

I would just like to comment & I apologize if it is off topic (it probably is), if it isn't entirely constructive (it probably isn't), if it comes across the wrong way (who knows, it may) & if it offends anyone (hopefully it won't & it is not my intentions). And this is certainly not directed at anyone in particular, it is more about our interactions with the developers of the game that we love to play.

Soooo......isn't this just a game?

Why must all aspects of the game & combat system be changed or modified to make it what we want it to be, simply because we are not happy with how it affects us in battle and/or in PvP. I humbly & firmly believe that we don't have to have everything go our way, just because we simply want it to & because we think we have "the solution". It's a game! Something may not work perfectly or in accordance to our version of perfect gameplay mechanics-- but isn't that OK, in the realm of virtual play? Suggestions are wonderful & great and all, but do they all have to be taken fully into consideration, implemented or do they all have to be seen as a solution to make the game more 'perfect', albeit in a virtual existence? It just seems that because we the players suggest something, we think that it absolutely has to be changed. And in many cases if it isn't, there is a bit of an 'uproar' or backlash because it wasn't changed to our liking.

I just wonder if (and hope) the same amount of thought & consideration from players, that is put into making the combat system & game mechanics exactly what some want it to be, is put into real world problems & issues. If something in a video game doesn't work perfectly the way we think it should, why is that so horrible? If we lose 1 or 2 PvE battles or PvP battles because "something needs to be changed about x-talent or x-power", does it really matter that much? I guess since KI & Ratbeard award us the privilege to communicate, provide feedback & voice our concerns, we assume that it is our right to change every aspect of the game & combat system until it conveniently works perfectly to our liking.

I just think so many times we just need to remember that it is just a game & these problems/issues are all virtual ones. And if they don't get 'fixed' to our 100% approval & liking....what real harm has been done? Can we not, still have fun? Is the game still enjoyable? Can't we still be kick-tush pirates, in PvE or PvP?

Not everything needs to be the way we want it to be or envision it just because it is what we think should happen. Suggestions are absolutely wonderful & helpful, but they don't always have to be accompanied by expectations that those suggestions will lead to changes that we think are the 'solution'. When I encounter issues with game, it helps me to remember that it is just that....a game- one that has developers monitoring & improving it.

Developer
Alex Hawkins on Sep 23, 2014 wrote:
Lol fair point. I will try not to use hyperbole when writing to you guys. Even though I don't see how it makes anyone think of "false bugs". If it was a bug, I would be posting on the Bilge Pump, no?

I understand your feelings towards the hidden update based on your posts in the past, but to label the criticism and suggestions people post about it as "whining" is unprofessional to say the least. There is a reason why this change to hidden has gathered such a huge response from the community. Since the moment it was introduced in test topics on it keep being coming up, and yet we keep getting the same response of "use AoE attacks", "use hybrid weapons", etc etc. We are the players playing the game, PvPing and telling you that the AoE attacks and hybrid weapons are not enough to fight against the way hidden works now, yet sometimes it feels our opinions and suggestions are falling on deaf hears. I guarantee you that topics on hidden will keep coming up until some reliable counter-play to it is introduced.

Here's one suggestion, why not re-introduce Scent on a piece of gear? The way it works now a hidden-critical-Assassin Strike is enough to kill a player character in one turn, at least with something reliable like Scent the player will take less damage and not become completely useless in one turn.

Or, another good suggestion I have seen is making overwatch/repelborders rank 3 remove hidden. It gives a tool for players to counter the hidden while still allowing the player using the hidden spell to play around it.

There are many good suggestions that players other than myself have come up with and I wish they were taken more into consideration instead of being considered as players complaining and not adapting to the new changes. But then again, what could the players spending dozens of hours in the brawling hall possibly know about what works and doesn't, right? The future of PvP doesn't look bright unless some changes are made.

-Alex Hawkins/Alex Deathflame
I will try not to use hyperbole when writing to you guys. Even though I don't see how it makes anyone think of "false bugs".

Because if you say that something is "invulnerable," it means that it cannot be harmed.

If you are able to target hidden units and damage them, then they are, by definition, not invulnerable.

If you say that stat buffs cause units to critical "nonstop," I take that to mean that they critical nonstop. As in, without stopping; every time.

Is that the behavior that you are seeing? Because that would be a bug. Do we need to chase that down?

I understand your feelings towards the hidden update based on your posts in the past, but to label the criticism and suggestions people post about it as "whining" is unprofessional to say the least.

Concerns, criticism, and suggestions are not whining.

Using hyperbole and demonstrably false facts to bolster a complaint is whining.

Feedback is great. Hyperbole? Not so useful.

There is a reason why this change to hidden has gathered such a huge response from the community.

Primarily because it's powerful and different.

Hidden has gone from being a joke in PvP, to being the damage dealer that it is in PvE. So PvP finally gets to experience the Swashbuckler at its intended power.

Is the intended power-level of the PvE Swashbuckler broken in PvP? Possibly. We'll certainly take all feedback into consideration before we introduce ranked PvP.

Of course, it's hard to say if it's broken based on Central tournaments, because you've restricted the use of defensive buffs. It puts you guys in the position of simultaneously complaining that damage is too high and defensive buffs are too good. I'm required to weigh any given piece of feedback against the game as you guys play it as opposed to the game as designed.

And because PvP strategies are constantly changing, it is possible that any given piece of feedback is true only at any given moment.

All Central PvP feedback is useful, it's just not holistically applicable.

We keep getting the same response of "use AoE attacks", "use hybrid weapons", etc. We are the players playing the game, PvPing and telling you that the AoE attacks and hybrid weapons are not enough to fight against the way hidden works now, yet sometimes it feels our opinions and suggestions are falling on deaf ears.


If the +100% damage from Hide is too powerful, then I might need to go back and review the bonus damage on all class powers. Here's the list of all class powers that do more than 1x damage:

Bombs: 01 and 02
X-shot and +-shot: 02 and 03
Traps: 01, 02, and 03
Scattershot: 02 and 03
Snipershot

Mojo Blade: 01 and 02
Ghostwail: 01, 02, and 03
Mojo Storm 03

Mighty Charge: 01, 02, and 03

Sneak Attack: 01, 02, and 03
Poison: 01, 02, and 03

I guarantee you that topics on hidden will keep coming up until some reliable counter-play to it is introduced.

And I can pretty much guarantee you that a reliable counter-play will be discovered before a reliable counter-play is introduced.

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2699
Ratbeard on Sep 24, 2014 wrote:
I will try not to use hyperbole when writing to you guys. Even though I don't see how it makes anyone think of "false bugs".

Because if you say that something is "invulnerable," it means that it cannot be harmed.

If you are able to target hidden units and damage them, then they are, by definition, not invulnerable.

If you say that stat buffs cause units to critical "nonstop," I take that to mean that they critical nonstop. As in, without stopping; every time.

Is that the behavior that you are seeing? Because that would be a bug. Do we need to chase that down?

I understand your feelings towards the hidden update based on your posts in the past, but to label the criticism and suggestions people post about it as "whining" is unprofessional to say the least.

Concerns, criticism, and suggestions are not whining.

Using hyperbole and demonstrably false facts to bolster a complaint is whining.

Feedback is great. Hyperbole? Not so useful.

There is a reason why this change to hidden has gathered such a huge response from the community.

Primarily because it's powerful and different.

Hidden has gone from being a joke in PvP, to being the damage dealer that it is in PvE. So PvP finally gets to experience the Swashbuckler at its intended power.

Is the intended power-level of the PvE Swashbuckler broken in PvP? Possibly. We'll certainly take all feedback into consideration before we introduce ranked PvP.

Of course, it's hard to say if it's broken based on Central tournaments, because you've restricted the use of defensive buffs. It puts you guys in the position of simultaneously complaining that damage is too high and defensive buffs are too good. I'm required to weigh any given piece of feedback against the game as you guys play it as opposed to the game as designed.

And because PvP strategies are constantly changing, it is possible that any given piece of feedback is true only at any given moment.

All Central PvP feedback is useful, it's just not holistically applicable.

We keep getting the same response of "use AoE attacks", "use hybrid weapons", etc. We are the players playing the game, PvPing and telling you that the AoE attacks and hybrid weapons are not enough to fight against the way hidden works now, yet sometimes it feels our opinions and suggestions are falling on deaf ears.


If the +100% damage from Hide is too powerful, then I might need to go back and review the bonus damage on all class powers. Here's the list of all class powers that do more than 1x damage:

Bombs: 01 and 02
X-shot and +-shot: 02 and 03
Traps: 01, 02, and 03
Scattershot: 02 and 03
Snipershot

Mojo Blade: 01 and 02
Ghostwail: 01, 02, and 03
Mojo Storm 03

Mighty Charge: 01, 02, and 03

Sneak Attack: 01, 02, and 03
Poison: 01, 02, and 03

I guarantee you that topics on hidden will keep coming up until some reliable counter-play to it is introduced.

And I can pretty much guarantee you that a reliable counter-play will be discovered before a reliable counter-play is introduced.
Hey there Ratbeard. Looking at your list of class powers that do more than 1x damage, would you say that Buccaneers need possibly an additional 1x damage power?

Or is the more than 1x power list taking into account what each class brings to the table as far as base damage versus armor/health/shield/buff powers and attributes? Meaning a Buccaneer doesn't need as many, more than 1x damage powers because they are equipped to take more damage and Privateers are equipped to Shield from damage and boost damage via Buffs. Meaning you are trying to find a balance between giving some classes more damage and others ways to counter it? Yeah, that's a pretty boneheaded question.....I'm sure you are always balancing the balance act. So basically a Buccaneer has less, more than 1x damage powers because it is equipped with various powers that decrease all the other classes damage and accuracy, as well as extra health and damage-- and ways to take Hidden enemies out of Hidden, thus taking away the more than 1x damage of those enemies.

No complaints here, just basic curiosity as to what is taken into account during the developing and distribution of, more than 1x damage powers-- and the thought process on finding balance amongst the different classes.

Developer
ValkoorTheVictorio... on Sep 25, 2014 wrote:
Hey there Ratbeard. Looking at your list of class powers that do more than 1x damage, would you say that Buccaneers need possibly an additional 1x damage power?

Or is the more than 1x power list taking into account what each class brings to the table as far as base damage versus armor/health/shield/buff powers and attributes? Meaning a Buccaneer doesn't need as many, more than 1x damage powers because they are equipped to take more damage and Privateers are equipped to Shield from damage and boost damage via Buffs. Meaning you are trying to find a balance between giving some classes more damage and others ways to counter it? Yeah, that's a pretty boneheaded question.....I'm sure you are always balancing the balance act. So basically a Buccaneer has less, more than 1x damage powers because it is equipped with various powers that decrease all the other classes damage and accuracy, as well as extra health and damage-- and ways to take Hidden enemies out of Hidden, thus taking away the more than 1x damage of those enemies.

No complaints here, just basic curiosity as to what is taken into account during the developing and distribution of, more than 1x damage powers-- and the thought process on finding balance amongst the different classes.
Hey there Ratbeard. Looking at your list of class powers that do more than 1x damage, would you say that Buccaneers need possibly an additional 1x damage power?

No, for a couple of reasons. First, Buccaneers are not designed to be "power-centric." They rely on talents to increase their damage output (and should do so even more effectively with the change to Bladestorm). If a Buccaneer wants more attack powers, they are readily available on gear.

Likewise, Turn the Tide gives them a big damage boost no matter what they are wielding or whether they are using a power card.

Second, Buccaneers have access to the highest damage weapons in the game, so effectively every attack they make has about a 10% edge over other classes. (And up ~20% compared to Staffy weapons, which are under the baseline by about 10%).

Yes, other classes can cross train to get access Big Choppy Weapons, but that's several training points not being spent elsewhere. The Privateer has the second easiest/cheapest access-- he already gets Slashy, and can easily train Smashy and Big Choppy; this assuming that the Privateer doesn't want to focus on defense. There's a lot of synergy and crossover between Buccaneer and Privateer, as melee goes.

All things considered I am pretty happy with the Buccaneer's damage output-- but I am considering beefing up Armor, and, of course, still wrestling with the A.I. to make Buccaneer's a little more "sticky' with aggro.

Lieutenant
Aug 29, 2008
145
Ratbeard on Sep 24, 2014 wrote:
I will try not to use hyperbole when writing to you guys. Even though I don't see how it makes anyone think of "false bugs".

Because if you say that something is "invulnerable," it means that it cannot be harmed.

If you are able to target hidden units and damage them, then they are, by definition, not invulnerable.

If you say that stat buffs cause units to critical "nonstop," I take that to mean that they critical nonstop. As in, without stopping; every time.

Is that the behavior that you are seeing? Because that would be a bug. Do we need to chase that down?

I understand your feelings towards the hidden update based on your posts in the past, but to label the criticism and suggestions people post about it as "whining" is unprofessional to say the least.

Concerns, criticism, and suggestions are not whining.

Using hyperbole and demonstrably false facts to bolster a complaint is whining.

Feedback is great. Hyperbole? Not so useful.

There is a reason why this change to hidden has gathered such a huge response from the community.

Primarily because it's powerful and different.

Hidden has gone from being a joke in PvP, to being the damage dealer that it is in PvE. So PvP finally gets to experience the Swashbuckler at its intended power.

Is the intended power-level of the PvE Swashbuckler broken in PvP? Possibly. We'll certainly take all feedback into consideration before we introduce ranked PvP.

Of course, it's hard to say if it's broken based on Central tournaments, because you've restricted the use of defensive buffs. It puts you guys in the position of simultaneously complaining that damage is too high and defensive buffs are too good. I'm required to weigh any given piece of feedback against the game as you guys play it as opposed to the game as designed.

And because PvP strategies are constantly changing, it is possible that any given piece of feedback is true only at any given moment.

All Central PvP feedback is useful, it's just not holistically applicable.

We keep getting the same response of "use AoE attacks", "use hybrid weapons", etc. We are the players playing the game, PvPing and telling you that the AoE attacks and hybrid weapons are not enough to fight against the way hidden works now, yet sometimes it feels our opinions and suggestions are falling on deaf ears.


If the +100% damage from Hide is too powerful, then I might need to go back and review the bonus damage on all class powers. Here's the list of all class powers that do more than 1x damage:

Bombs: 01 and 02
X-shot and +-shot: 02 and 03
Traps: 01, 02, and 03
Scattershot: 02 and 03
Snipershot

Mojo Blade: 01 and 02
Ghostwail: 01, 02, and 03
Mojo Storm 03

Mighty Charge: 01, 02, and 03

Sneak Attack: 01, 02, and 03
Poison: 01, 02, and 03

I guarantee you that topics on hidden will keep coming up until some reliable counter-play to it is introduced.

And I can pretty much guarantee you that a reliable counter-play will be discovered before a reliable counter-play is introduced.
Alright, I'll bite.

If the +100% damage from Hide is too powerful, then I might need to go back and review the bonus damage on all class powers. Here's the list of all class powers that do more than 1x damage:

Ah, but see that is where the problem lies exactly. I can't believe I didn't notice this earlier. The hidden +100% Bonus is the only bonus out of those you listed that can ADDED on top of another bonus.

I might be contradicting myself from previous posts, so please forgive me for that. I just realized that the problem is not with Hidden itself, but instead with the +100% damage bonus being able to be stacked onto powers that already have a huge damage bonus themselves. All other powers do a set amount (2x, 3x) but no single power provides you with a 4x or higher damage bonus. The hidden line of powers allows a player to break this boundary of 3x power bonuses and reach 4x damage on a single power, which at this state of the game is in my honest opinion broken.

Yes, the powers you listed all do extra damage, but none of them can a 100% to zero a companion or player character the way a combination of Hidden + Assassin Strike can. This is where the problem is. Without critical my Swashbuckler does about 2000-2200 damage on this Hidden+Assassin's Strike combo, with a Super critical I have seen my damage go up to 3200, and that's without accounting the bleeding that will come after or if the Swash has any other buffs. This is enough to 100% to zero most companions and players in the game, all in one turn. No other tool in the game allows you to do this, for the excepting of a Reckless Frenzy. Then think about the fact that any class that benefits from the hidden abilities can repeat this combo multiple times in a single game by carrying more hidden cards. A super Mojo Storm will usually do 1000-1500, and a super X-shot will do about 700-1000. None of them come close to a super Assassin with hidden.

So here is another idea/suggestion/feedback piece. Maybe don't allow Hidden to add the 100% damage bonus to powers that already have a bonus (e.g. Assassin' Strike, Mighty Charge, X-Shot, Sneak Attack, etc). This way you still keep the utility that you seem to like so much of Hidden not being removed by anything, while toning down its offensive power. Hidden units would still be able to do 2x damage by doing a regular attack, but wouldn't be able to achieve the ridiculousness of 4x+ damage of the hidden+power combos.

Developer
Alex Hawkins on Sep 25, 2014 wrote:
Alright, I'll bite.

If the +100% damage from Hide is too powerful, then I might need to go back and review the bonus damage on all class powers. Here's the list of all class powers that do more than 1x damage:

Ah, but see that is where the problem lies exactly. I can't believe I didn't notice this earlier. The hidden +100% Bonus is the only bonus out of those you listed that can ADDED on top of another bonus.

I might be contradicting myself from previous posts, so please forgive me for that. I just realized that the problem is not with Hidden itself, but instead with the +100% damage bonus being able to be stacked onto powers that already have a huge damage bonus themselves. All other powers do a set amount (2x, 3x) but no single power provides you with a 4x or higher damage bonus. The hidden line of powers allows a player to break this boundary of 3x power bonuses and reach 4x damage on a single power, which at this state of the game is in my honest opinion broken.

Yes, the powers you listed all do extra damage, but none of them can a 100% to zero a companion or player character the way a combination of Hidden + Assassin Strike can. This is where the problem is. Without critical my Swashbuckler does about 2000-2200 damage on this Hidden+Assassin's Strike combo, with a Super critical I have seen my damage go up to 3200, and that's without accounting the bleeding that will come after or if the Swash has any other buffs. This is enough to 100% to zero most companions and players in the game, all in one turn. No other tool in the game allows you to do this, for the excepting of a Reckless Frenzy. Then think about the fact that any class that benefits from the hidden abilities can repeat this combo multiple times in a single game by carrying more hidden cards. A super Mojo Storm will usually do 1000-1500, and a super X-shot will do about 700-1000. None of them come close to a super Assassin with hidden.

So here is another idea/suggestion/feedback piece. Maybe don't allow Hidden to add the 100% damage bonus to powers that already have a bonus (e.g. Assassin' Strike, Mighty Charge, X-Shot, Sneak Attack, etc). This way you still keep the utility that you seem to like so much of Hidden not being removed by anything, while toning down its offensive power. Hidden units would still be able to do 2x damage by doing a regular attack, but wouldn't be able to achieve the ridiculousness of 4x+ damage of the hidden+power combos.
Super critical is less than 15% of all critical hits; combine that with the chance of Assassin's Strike actually going critical and you're banking on something in the 5% to 8% range.

I'd certainly make sure that any Swashbuckler that was gambling on those odds paid a heavy price for failing 95% of the time.

You guys seem to think that a Swashbuckler dishing out crazy amounts of damage to a single target is unforseen.

It's not.

It's the defining feature of the class. It always has been.

Spend some more time dealing with it in PvP.

I'll be watching the results.

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2699
Ratbeard on Sep 25, 2014 wrote:
Hey there Ratbeard. Looking at your list of class powers that do more than 1x damage, would you say that Buccaneers need possibly an additional 1x damage power?

No, for a couple of reasons. First, Buccaneers are not designed to be "power-centric." They rely on talents to increase their damage output (and should do so even more effectively with the change to Bladestorm). If a Buccaneer wants more attack powers, they are readily available on gear.

Likewise, Turn the Tide gives them a big damage boost no matter what they are wielding or whether they are using a power card.

Second, Buccaneers have access to the highest damage weapons in the game, so effectively every attack they make has about a 10% edge over other classes. (And up ~20% compared to Staffy weapons, which are under the baseline by about 10%).

Yes, other classes can cross train to get access Big Choppy Weapons, but that's several training points not being spent elsewhere. The Privateer has the second easiest/cheapest access-- he already gets Slashy, and can easily train Smashy and Big Choppy; this assuming that the Privateer doesn't want to focus on defense. There's a lot of synergy and crossover between Buccaneer and Privateer, as melee goes.

All things considered I am pretty happy with the Buccaneer's damage output-- but I am considering beefing up Armor, and, of course, still wrestling with the A.I. to make Buccaneer's a little more "sticky' with aggro.
Thanks for the reply Ratbeard, just trying to sap more wisdom out of you. My wisdom about the game dynamics and combat system doesn't sound as eloquent when I speak it or write.....I know some of it and am aware of it, just like to see it in writing from the Rat with the Hat-- call me crazy, but it's good reading.

And absolutely, I am extremely thrilled with the damage output of Buccaneers. All things considered, my Buccaneer usually does more damage in any given round than most Swashbucklers that accompany me in battle. Bucks don't have the base damage but can get very close to the base of a Swash with gear and training in and using Slashy/Smashy type weapons. And as noted, all of the other things that go into play for a Buccaneer in battle: The highest damaging weapons w/ Follow Through, loads of Strength boosting powers (thus damage boosting), Turn the Tide(s), Blade Storms out the wazoo, Glancing Blows and Vengeance Strikes to possibly Crit. and trigger those Blade Storms, the fact that no other classes use Strength as a primary stat-- which distances Buccaneers even further away in ratio of Strength when Buffing and can get them closer to that '2/3 chance of triggering Crits & Blade Storms......

It seems to me, when you take into account buffing and same class companions, Buccaneers have the most damage output potential (or at least above par) in any given round, when not considering specific powers used-- just basic ways of delivering damage. Overall, I am really happy with Spiral life as a Buccaneer and possibly even more Armor....that sounds fantastic!

Bosun
May 10, 2010
396
I am not sure what you think your opponent is doing when you are hiding and using assassins strike, but there are counters to this attack. Leviathans call, Krakens Lament, and Valor's fortress. I am sure you have heard of these, they all negate 50% damage, which essentially nullifies the hide/attack combo!

All classes have access to hide, leviathans call, krakens lament, and valor's fortress, nobody is left in the cold or unprotected from attacks, it is whether or not you choose to utilize these spells.

Also, I have done way more than 1500 damage using mojo storm, I have done over 1800 and that was only a mega hit, not a super. Now, doing calculations, even at 1500 x possible 9 targets, that does way more damage than an assassin strike with hide.

I suppose the real question is, are we talking about game PVP, or central rules PVP? Central limits the amount of defensive buffs you can use, so your complaint should be directed there, as it is their rules that limit your defenses, not the games.

Can you really find no strategy or defense against a hide and an assassins strike?

Lieutenant
Aug 29, 2008
145
Ratbeard on Sep 25, 2014 wrote:
Super critical is less than 15% of all critical hits; combine that with the chance of Assassin's Strike actually going critical and you're banking on something in the 5% to 8% range.

I'd certainly make sure that any Swashbuckler that was gambling on those odds paid a heavy price for failing 95% of the time.

You guys seem to think that a Swashbuckler dishing out crazy amounts of damage to a single target is unforseen.

It's not.

It's the defining feature of the class. It always has been.

Spend some more time dealing with it in PvP.

I'll be watching the results.
Response to Ratbeard


You guys seem to think that a Swashbuckler dishing out crazy amounts of damage to a single target is unforseen.


No, I definitely agree with you here. It is what defines the class and no one had any problem with it when Swashbucklers were hitting 3x Assassin's Strikes because we could survive it. My point from my last post is that adding hidden on top of that bonus makes it too much for any class or companion to deal with.

Even without the critical, the hidden-assassin combo with the bleeding will kill most Swashbucklers, Musketeers and Witchdoctor companions with full health, yet somehow this is seen as fair.

Spend some more time dealing with it in PvP. I'll be watching the results.

Will be doing just that. Tomorrow Saturday us Tournament Masters plan to host an all day "Last Man Standing" Tournament where players can come in and duel each other throughout the day. The goal is for us TMs to watch how players are dueling with and without Central rules and see what strategies they come up with to deal with the latest game updates. You're invited to come any time and watch the duels with us Ratbeard, or even get a duel or two in yourself. If you're interested, I'll be posting the details on it some time later tonight on Central.

Response to Darth JT

I'm not sure what you think your opponent is doing when you are hiding and using Assassin Strike, but there are counters to this attack.

Oh for sure you could defend yourself, but can you defend your whole team before the Swashbuckler strikes? It would take me 4 turns to Hide-ShieldMyself-moveacrossboard-assassinstrike any of your units that is defenseless. You might use those 4 turns to fortress each and every one of your units individually, but that just means those were 4 turns you were not doing anything else at all like attacking me or buffing your own team. And then I can just sit back, let your 4 fortresses run out, and use my 2nd hidden spell, and repeat the same process. In this game it is much easier to make one unit a super offensive powerhouse than it is to defend your whole team, and all I need to do is kill one or two of your units before they get to do much in order to secure a win.

In the scheme of PvP you can't afford to sit back and shield all day. Many times you are forced to have to move your character or have to do another power, so no, I don't think there are any counters to this attack that don't include sacrificing one of your own companions in the process.

Well actually, there is a big counter, which is just using hide yourself. But then in the future of PvP we will just be seeing battles where is hidden unit vs hidden unit with each person waiting for the other's hide to run out. Where is the fun in that?

I suppose the real question is, are we talking about game PVP, or central rules PVP?

Anything that I have said here has been with game PVP in mind, not central rules, that's why I'm posting here. This post is the only one I even mention Central in.

Developer
Darth JT on Sep 25, 2014 wrote:
I am not sure what you think your opponent is doing when you are hiding and using assassins strike, but there are counters to this attack. Leviathans call, Krakens Lament, and Valor's fortress. I am sure you have heard of these, they all negate 50% damage, which essentially nullifies the hide/attack combo!

All classes have access to hide, leviathans call, krakens lament, and valor's fortress, nobody is left in the cold or unprotected from attacks, it is whether or not you choose to utilize these spells.

Also, I have done way more than 1500 damage using mojo storm, I have done over 1800 and that was only a mega hit, not a super. Now, doing calculations, even at 1500 x possible 9 targets, that does way more damage than an assassin strike with hide.

I suppose the real question is, are we talking about game PVP, or central rules PVP? Central limits the amount of defensive buffs you can use, so your complaint should be directed there, as it is their rules that limit your defenses, not the games.

Can you really find no strategy or defense against a hide and an assassins strike?
There are definitely some structural problems with the way that Central sets up their tournaments which limits my ability to implement feedback from Central. Limiting defenses and then complaining about damage output is just the tip of the iceberg.

The very concept of the 1v1 match is going to require some careful rebalancing on our end. It's possible to play chess where each player starts with a King and 3 pieces, but it's a completely different game requiring completely different strategies-- just as 1v1 is completely different from 2v2, 3v3, 4v4. On a full chessboard, a player has the option of sacrificing a pawn or other piece to set himself up for greater gains down the line.

Because of the way the P101 classes are set up with natural strengths and weakness against each other, you have many fewer options match to match, it overemphasizes the importance of making the first move, it leads to standing off and stacking buffs and then smacking into each other at full force, etc.

The classes have a natural Rock-Paper-Scissors relationship with each other (across several axes) and so the fewer pieces you have on the board, the more weight that imparts to any given matchup.

The Swashbuckler's ability to "take out" another piece on the board is weighed against the likelihood that he'll be killed or irrecoverably degraded on the very next turn. The odds of that happening are much lower in a 1v1 match than 2v2 or greater. To take that analogy just a bit further, imagine a match that was 1v1 Pirates Only (no companions). Certainly the Swashbuckler is in the driver's seat in a match like that.

Bosun
May 10, 2010
396
Ratbeard on Sep 26, 2014 wrote:
There are definitely some structural problems with the way that Central sets up their tournaments which limits my ability to implement feedback from Central. Limiting defenses and then complaining about damage output is just the tip of the iceberg.

The very concept of the 1v1 match is going to require some careful rebalancing on our end. It's possible to play chess where each player starts with a King and 3 pieces, but it's a completely different game requiring completely different strategies-- just as 1v1 is completely different from 2v2, 3v3, 4v4. On a full chessboard, a player has the option of sacrificing a pawn or other piece to set himself up for greater gains down the line.

Because of the way the P101 classes are set up with natural strengths and weakness against each other, you have many fewer options match to match, it overemphasizes the importance of making the first move, it leads to standing off and stacking buffs and then smacking into each other at full force, etc.

The classes have a natural Rock-Paper-Scissors relationship with each other (across several axes) and so the fewer pieces you have on the board, the more weight that imparts to any given matchup.

The Swashbuckler's ability to "take out" another piece on the board is weighed against the likelihood that he'll be killed or irrecoverably degraded on the very next turn. The odds of that happening are much lower in a 1v1 match than 2v2 or greater. To take that analogy just a bit further, imagine a match that was 1v1 Pirates Only (no companions). Certainly the Swashbuckler is in the driver's seat in a match like that.
Oh, trust me Ratbeard, I have given PVP a lot of thought too and am trying to see many of the balancing issues that you face when Ranked PVP does come into play.

I personally, like the fact that Hide has been fixed! Now, if Witchdoctors can get their single target attacks back to being allowed to activate Mojo echo or Mojo Rising again, that will help balance the fact that every class is allowed to use single target attacks and trigger their Blade storm or Double Tap.

I also understand that there is a huge difference between 1v1 and 4v4, I am not even going to get into a 4v4 match as there are too many variables.

However, in a 1v1 match, it is true, the loss of just 1 companion can cause a great deal of stress on a player, as that is typically the strategy, to make odds more in your favor, rather than against.

I think that Armor being armor will help immensely when it comes to classes being balanced, rather than a possibility of possible protection, although you already stated this.

Only one thing that I do disagree with in your entire statement, is the fact that a Swashbuckler is in a driver seat in a 1v1 pirate only match, I would love to see that Swashbuckler take on my Buccaneer in that scenario, because with Vicious strike decreasing that swashbucklers accuracy, Blade storm chances, and all the defenses that a Buccaneer has, along with the ability to use Hide and Assassins strike, I would never for a million years count a Buccaneer down or out!

I am sure there are more factors that you see that most of us don't, which is why we rely on you to know what is best for balance and we appreciate that you listen to our feedback and try to ignore hyperbole, as I know there is a ton on the message boards.

Now, I appreciate Central and the PVP players feedback, but they have to also take into consideration that they have rules that Ranked PVP will not and I think some of them forget that.

Thanks for your response ratbeard and the insight.

Bosun
May 10, 2010
396
Alex Hawkins on Sep 26, 2014 wrote:
Response to Ratbeard


You guys seem to think that a Swashbuckler dishing out crazy amounts of damage to a single target is unforseen.


No, I definitely agree with you here. It is what defines the class and no one had any problem with it when Swashbucklers were hitting 3x Assassin's Strikes because we could survive it. My point from my last post is that adding hidden on top of that bonus makes it too much for any class or companion to deal with.

Even without the critical, the hidden-assassin combo with the bleeding will kill most Swashbucklers, Musketeers and Witchdoctor companions with full health, yet somehow this is seen as fair.

Spend some more time dealing with it in PvP. I'll be watching the results.

Will be doing just that. Tomorrow Saturday us Tournament Masters plan to host an all day "Last Man Standing" Tournament where players can come in and duel each other throughout the day. The goal is for us TMs to watch how players are dueling with and without Central rules and see what strategies they come up with to deal with the latest game updates. You're invited to come any time and watch the duels with us Ratbeard, or even get a duel or two in yourself. If you're interested, I'll be posting the details on it some time later tonight on Central.

Response to Darth JT

I'm not sure what you think your opponent is doing when you are hiding and using Assassin Strike, but there are counters to this attack.

Oh for sure you could defend yourself, but can you defend your whole team before the Swashbuckler strikes? It would take me 4 turns to Hide-ShieldMyself-moveacrossboard-assassinstrike any of your units that is defenseless. You might use those 4 turns to fortress each and every one of your units individually, but that just means those were 4 turns you were not doing anything else at all like attacking me or buffing your own team. And then I can just sit back, let your 4 fortresses run out, and use my 2nd hidden spell, and repeat the same process. In this game it is much easier to make one unit a super offensive powerhouse than it is to defend your whole team, and all I need to do is kill one or two of your units before they get to do much in order to secure a win.

In the scheme of PvP you can't afford to sit back and shield all day. Many times you are forced to have to move your character or have to do another power, so no, I don't think there are any counters to this attack that don't include sacrificing one of your own companions in the process.

Well actually, there is a big counter, which is just using hide yourself. But then in the future of PvP we will just be seeing battles where is hidden unit vs hidden unit with each person waiting for the other's hide to run out. Where is the fun in that?

I suppose the real question is, are we talking about game PVP, or central rules PVP?

Anything that I have said here has been with game PVP in mind, not central rules, that's why I'm posting here. This post is the only one I even mention Central in.
As Ratbeard has said, sometimes you have to sacrifice a pawn to take out the queen. Now, while you are hiding and taking out my 1 companion, I am hidden myself and so is Keisuke, together we will take out the swashbuckler no questions asked. Better have someone ready and able to heal you from long distance like Bonnie anne, although she only heals for 25%, that is, if you actually bring her into battle and someone has not already gotten to her, as her defenses are not very high and can easily be taken out.

Leaves a lot of different scenarios, but I guess it really does depend on which companions you choose and how you play. There is a lot of choices in the game, especially when it comes to offense or defense, attack or defend. Hide or attack. Sacrifice a pawn or try to go all in?

More questions to ponder, I hope Central does start posting tournaments without any rules, to help see the different strategies people can think up.

Gunner's Mate
May 02, 2009
210
I have a question about this task here Ratbeard:

2) We have another To Do to break up the current brawlin' halls into multiple, leveled battle arenas-- levels 15 and below go through this door, 16-30 through here, etc.. This is not ranked PvP, but just a means of getting the right players into the right arenas with players who are about the same level. This task, unfortunately, must take a back seat to other (more exciting!) new content we're working on. If we get a window to squeeze it in, we will. It's not a small task, as it involves Art, Tech, and Design all together.

Does this mean that people who have passed lv.15 won't be able to go through the lv.15- door anymore, or will they still be allowed to go through there if they want to do so?

Lieutenant
Aug 29, 2008
145
Ratbeard on Sep 26, 2014 wrote:
There are definitely some structural problems with the way that Central sets up their tournaments which limits my ability to implement feedback from Central. Limiting defenses and then complaining about damage output is just the tip of the iceberg.

The very concept of the 1v1 match is going to require some careful rebalancing on our end. It's possible to play chess where each player starts with a King and 3 pieces, but it's a completely different game requiring completely different strategies-- just as 1v1 is completely different from 2v2, 3v3, 4v4. On a full chessboard, a player has the option of sacrificing a pawn or other piece to set himself up for greater gains down the line.

Because of the way the P101 classes are set up with natural strengths and weakness against each other, you have many fewer options match to match, it overemphasizes the importance of making the first move, it leads to standing off and stacking buffs and then smacking into each other at full force, etc.

The classes have a natural Rock-Paper-Scissors relationship with each other (across several axes) and so the fewer pieces you have on the board, the more weight that imparts to any given matchup.

The Swashbuckler's ability to "take out" another piece on the board is weighed against the likelihood that he'll be killed or irrecoverably degraded on the very next turn. The odds of that happening are much lower in a 1v1 match than 2v2 or greater. To take that analogy just a bit further, imagine a match that was 1v1 Pirates Only (no companions). Certainly the Swashbuckler is in the driver's seat in a match like that.
Maybe it is just the whole concept of 1v1 and lower tier dueling in this game that should be looked at then?

Great analogy with the comparison to chess. The lower the number of units on the Pirate101 board, the more it becomes a Rock Paper Scissors game. Most of my opinions and suggestions do come from the 1v1 side of things, so perhaps that's why my opinions might have seemed so flawed to you because you're thinking in the grander scheme of things (4v4s to 1v1s) while I'm selfishlessly thinking only about 1v1. If so, I spologize for that.

But then, is it even possible to balance the classes in a 1v1 environment? I'm sure no one would want to queue up in 1v1 ranked just for it to come down to the luck of "if I draw a Musk, I win, if instead a Witch I lose." There's not fun in that. I don't think its possible to have Swashbucklers, for example, have the high risk high reward they are supposed to have in the 1v1 duels with the small amount of units present in those types of duels. So maybe it is worth a shot to look at changing the way 1v1s are played instead of changing the classes.

Here's an idea with that in mind, allow more companions to be chosen the lower the type of duel is. So for example, in 1v1 each player can chose 6 companions each for a total of 7 units on each side. For 2v2 it would be 5 companions each for a total of 12 units on each side, for 3v3 it would be 4 each for 15 units total, and 4v4 could stay at 3 companions each for 16 units on each side.

Something like this would allow lower tier duels like 1v1 and 2v2 to have a "fuller" board and making it feel more strategic and balanced.

Anyways, it has been a pleasure having this PvP discussion with you Ratbeard, but I feel I'm running out of ideas/suggestions. I'm thankful to have developers constantly communicating with the community the way you guys do, so keep up the good work!

Developer
flash33 on Sep 27, 2014 wrote:
I have a question about this task here Ratbeard:

2) We have another To Do to break up the current brawlin' halls into multiple, leveled battle arenas-- levels 15 and below go through this door, 16-30 through here, etc.. This is not ranked PvP, but just a means of getting the right players into the right arenas with players who are about the same level. This task, unfortunately, must take a back seat to other (more exciting!) new content we're working on. If we get a window to squeeze it in, we will. It's not a small task, as it involves Art, Tech, and Design all together.

Does this mean that people who have passed lv.15 won't be able to go through the lv.15- door anymore, or will they still be allowed to go through there if they want to do so?
Does this mean that people who have passed lv.15 won't be able to go through the lv.15- door anymore, or will they still be allowed to go through there if they want to do so?

You can go through any door (to spectate), but the sigils will only allow a specific level range. Allowing high level players to disrupt low level matches is as much of a problem as allowing low level players to disrupt high level matches.

So for example, in 1v1 each player can chose 6 companions each for a total of 7 units on each side. For 2v2 it would be 5 companions each for a total of 12 units on each side, for 3v3 it would be 4 each for 15 units total, and 4v4 could stay at 3 companions each for 16 units on each side.

Something like that is definitely possible in the PvP environment, where we know going in how many actual players are involved. We can set our match tables up with any kind of data. We could allow a 50v50 if we wanted. In any case (where companions >3) we will have to rebuild the companion selection screen, or we might have to switch PvP to random companion selection (which would certainly create its own kind of balance).

In fact, random companions has a lot going for it in terms of balancing PvP. I'd definitely like to see it as an option, if not the default.

Sort of depends on whether you prefer "custom deck" or "booster draft" tournaments. Both have their pros and cons.

I'd love to see a tournament structure (random companions or not) where wounded companions are not available as you advance through the bracket. That would shake things up considerably!

1