The Automatic Win: Blast of Discord

AuthorMessage
Ensign
May 09, 2015
37
Blast of Discord, a power introduced to the Privateer Class in the release of Valencia Part 2. This broken power is downright inequitable and I feel it should be weakened majorly or removed altogether. You know a power is broken when you can win the match in a minute and a half with it. You are probably wondering "If you can win a match-up with it in that time frame then why are you complaining?" The thing is I didn't win a match-up like that, my opponent did. All because she was able to claim first turn in the match. Here's what basically happened, I lined up for some late night Rank pvp matches on my Privateer. I end up pulling another Privy who had the team of Old Scratch, Gracie Conrad, and Lucky Jack Russell.

She had the first turn as you already know and she used Discord, and my companions started to go around and attack me. Eventually Blast of Discord focused on my Nausica and she started to regular spam attack me, the turning point was when she landed a critical attack on my character and from that point on, finished me off in 2 hits. After my character had died from this Broken Power I was forced to do one of the most shameful things in Rank pvp, flee the match.

I couldn't do anything to counter her, she had the full Privateer arsenal at her disposal and her full team to use against my companions. In case you are wondering yes I did have Soul Shroud equipped, it drained some health from one of my companions when my health got low but still resulted in my character's demise.

Maybe this power shouldn't be removed but it needs to be majorly weakened. No one should have that much advantage over a game in a minute and a half. Maybe Blast of Discord shouldn't target the character? That's a suggestion. I honestly don't know what else to say. I have used Blast of Discord for several Rank pvp matches and it never works wonders for me like that...

I hope Ratbeard sees this and works on weakening this broken power or removing it.

- A Privateer

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9110
Dead Eye Griffin O... on Aug 23, 2016 wrote:
Blast of Discord, a power introduced to the Privateer Class in the release of Valencia Part 2. This broken power is downright inequitable and I feel it should be weakened majorly or removed altogether. You know a power is broken when you can win the match in a minute and a half with it. You are probably wondering "If you can win a match-up with it in that time frame then why are you complaining?" The thing is I didn't win a match-up like that, my opponent did. All because she was able to claim first turn in the match. Here's what basically happened, I lined up for some late night Rank pvp matches on my Privateer. I end up pulling another Privy who had the team of Old Scratch, Gracie Conrad, and Lucky Jack Russell.

She had the first turn as you already know and she used Discord, and my companions started to go around and attack me. Eventually Blast of Discord focused on my Nausica and she started to regular spam attack me, the turning point was when she landed a critical attack on my character and from that point on, finished me off in 2 hits. After my character had died from this Broken Power I was forced to do one of the most shameful things in Rank pvp, flee the match.

I couldn't do anything to counter her, she had the full Privateer arsenal at her disposal and her full team to use against my companions. In case you are wondering yes I did have Soul Shroud equipped, it drained some health from one of my companions when my health got low but still resulted in my character's demise.

Maybe this power shouldn't be removed but it needs to be majorly weakened. No one should have that much advantage over a game in a minute and a half. Maybe Blast of Discord shouldn't target the character? That's a suggestion. I honestly don't know what else to say. I have used Blast of Discord for several Rank pvp matches and it never works wonders for me like that...

I hope Ratbeard sees this and works on weakening this broken power or removing it.

- A Privateer
A quick search of the message board's Spar Chamber would show you that there are many topics concerning Blast of Discord. But I wonder, if you had the first turn, wouldn't you have used BoD and won the match?

Gunner's Mate
Sep 07, 2014
242
Instead of complaining " I cant do it" you should try different tactics / maybe even SPEAK to other players about how they deal with it and other things.

Lieutenant
Jun 08, 2009
126
I personally hate this power as a privateer main.
1. It's useless after enemy companions are gone.
2. I feel bad whenever I use it cause it seems like a cheap way to win, its one thing when you outplay your opponnent and time your damage and calculate this power is Pure Chance. It's not fun to use or to have it used against me.
3. I've tried using it as a Summon Counter as ratbeard stated it was supposed to be used but after testing it multiple times its only proven to be a counter to Beastbanner empowered summons and not summons that are simply grouped together i'm better off using big guns.
4. Times I try using it to it's mechanics say I have a will buff and use it versus a buccaneer team they litereally only attack a couple times, when a ene uses it on my will buffed march she attacks me at least 4-5 times this situation happens more often than you'd think.

Even if a player dying to discord turn one is only a 1/100 chance it shouldn't be allowed to happen even if its 1/10000. At this point i'd just like the power to be removed from the game and be replaced with something else. I've personally killed someone turn 1 with discord already and have gotten close a few times with others here is the proof

http://www.pirate101central.com/forums/showthread.php?59440-Proof-Discord-Needs-to-be-FIXED

Lieutenant
Jun 08, 2009
126
Krigleblort on Aug 23, 2016 wrote:
Instead of complaining " I cant do it" you should try different tactics / maybe even SPEAK to other players about how they deal with it and other things.
There is no counter against a turn 1 blast of discord that's why there's so much debate over it. Any time after turn 1 you can simply move away or Use a will buff however if they use blast of discord before you get to even see your cards there's nothing you can do

Ensign
May 09, 2015
37
Krigleblort on Aug 23, 2016 wrote:
Instead of complaining " I cant do it" you should try different tactics / maybe even SPEAK to other players about how they deal with it and other things.
I know how to counter discord you just simply spread out, however I was unable to spread out since my opponent got first turn advantage and ended the game before I could counter it. How am I suppose to try different tactics if my char is dead when my turns begins and I'm vs a Privateer with her full team and her full arsenal? I could attack with my companions sure but unbuffed companions vs a team who can be critical buffed, accuracy and dodged buffed, healed, and first mate's booned tends to be a match you 100% can't win.

Ensign
May 09, 2015
37
anecorbie on Aug 23, 2016 wrote:
A quick search of the message board's Spar Chamber would show you that there are many topics concerning Blast of Discord. But I wonder, if you had the first turn, wouldn't you have used BoD and won the match?
Yeah it's seriously a major issue, and well your question depends on certain factors in the match. For starters if I got the first turn and I didn't pull Blast of Discord then when it's my opponent's turn she would have already spread out her companions rendering the power useless. "If you had the first turn, wouldn't you have used Bod and won the match?"

Here's the thing Blast of Discord can work a 2 different ways it can either get a couple of hits in or just ko the opponent's character and you get the automatic win. For me Blast of Discord fails most of the time, and if I got first turn and pulled the card I doubt I would be able to get the automatic win with it.

For those of you thinking "Oh if it has a chance to just fail, then why are you complaining?" It has the chance to fail, however in this situation that was not the case, the power ended up giving my opponent the automatic win.

If you still think I'm just being a sore loser, a lot of people in the Rank PvP community feel the same way! All you have to do is pull up The Spar Chamber section in the message boards and you will find several results of people's frustration of the broken power Blast of Discord. A power like this shouldn't win you a match in a minute and a half with a click of a button.

Admiral
Jul 07, 2013
1124
Dead Eye Griffin O... on Aug 23, 2016 wrote:
Blast of Discord, a power introduced to the Privateer Class in the release of Valencia Part 2. This broken power is downright inequitable and I feel it should be weakened majorly or removed altogether. You know a power is broken when you can win the match in a minute and a half with it. You are probably wondering "If you can win a match-up with it in that time frame then why are you complaining?" The thing is I didn't win a match-up like that, my opponent did. All because she was able to claim first turn in the match. Here's what basically happened, I lined up for some late night Rank pvp matches on my Privateer. I end up pulling another Privy who had the team of Old Scratch, Gracie Conrad, and Lucky Jack Russell.

She had the first turn as you already know and she used Discord, and my companions started to go around and attack me. Eventually Blast of Discord focused on my Nausica and she started to regular spam attack me, the turning point was when she landed a critical attack on my character and from that point on, finished me off in 2 hits. After my character had died from this Broken Power I was forced to do one of the most shameful things in Rank pvp, flee the match.

I couldn't do anything to counter her, she had the full Privateer arsenal at her disposal and her full team to use against my companions. In case you are wondering yes I did have Soul Shroud equipped, it drained some health from one of my companions when my health got low but still resulted in my character's demise.

Maybe this power shouldn't be removed but it needs to be majorly weakened. No one should have that much advantage over a game in a minute and a half. Maybe Blast of Discord shouldn't target the character? That's a suggestion. I honestly don't know what else to say. I have used Blast of Discord for several Rank pvp matches and it never works wonders for me like that...

I hope Ratbeard sees this and works on weakening this broken power or removing it.

- A Privateer
"The problem is....I didn't win the match my opponent did"

Oh no! I lost! It must be a "broken" result of the game.....

If the situation was reversed....

"I love this power! I won in a minute and a half!"

Death happens...

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Admiral
Jul 07, 2013
1124
Sunny Wolf on Aug 23, 2016 wrote:
I personally hate this power as a privateer main.
1. It's useless after enemy companions are gone.
2. I feel bad whenever I use it cause it seems like a cheap way to win, its one thing when you outplay your opponnent and time your damage and calculate this power is Pure Chance. It's not fun to use or to have it used against me.
3. I've tried using it as a Summon Counter as ratbeard stated it was supposed to be used but after testing it multiple times its only proven to be a counter to Beastbanner empowered summons and not summons that are simply grouped together i'm better off using big guns.
4. Times I try using it to it's mechanics say I have a will buff and use it versus a buccaneer team they litereally only attack a couple times, when a ene uses it on my will buffed march she attacks me at least 4-5 times this situation happens more often than you'd think.

Even if a player dying to discord turn one is only a 1/100 chance it shouldn't be allowed to happen even if its 1/10000. At this point i'd just like the power to be removed from the game and be replaced with something else. I've personally killed someone turn 1 with discord already and have gotten close a few times with others here is the proof

http://www.pirate101central.com/forums/showthread.php?59440-Proof-Discord-Needs-to-be-FIXED
You can personally remove it from your power deck if it pops up and choose not to use it. Or you can move it to the back. The chance that it uses makes it a risky move and that is the trade off in using it. The fact that it may not work nicely at all.

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Admiral
Jul 07, 2013
1124
Sunny Wolf on Aug 24, 2016 wrote:
There is no counter against a turn 1 blast of discord that's why there's so much debate over it. Any time after turn 1 you can simply move away or Use a will buff however if they use blast of discord before you get to even see your cards there's nothing you can do
You can train yourself and your companions differently to have more defense and not be attack attribute heavy. I used to call it a "paper tiger"

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Admiral
Jul 07, 2013
1124
Dead Eye Griffin O... on Aug 24, 2016 wrote:
I know how to counter discord you just simply spread out, however I was unable to spread out since my opponent got first turn advantage and ended the game before I could counter it. How am I suppose to try different tactics if my char is dead when my turns begins and I'm vs a Privateer with her full team and her full arsenal? I could attack with my companions sure but unbuffed companions vs a team who can be critical buffed, accuracy and dodged buffed, healed, and first mate's booned tends to be a match you 100% can't win.
People used to complain there was no counter to black fog either....

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Admiral
Jul 07, 2013
1124
Dead Eye Griffin O... on Aug 24, 2016 wrote:
Yeah it's seriously a major issue, and well your question depends on certain factors in the match. For starters if I got the first turn and I didn't pull Blast of Discord then when it's my opponent's turn she would have already spread out her companions rendering the power useless. "If you had the first turn, wouldn't you have used Bod and won the match?"

Here's the thing Blast of Discord can work a 2 different ways it can either get a couple of hits in or just ko the opponent's character and you get the automatic win. For me Blast of Discord fails most of the time, and if I got first turn and pulled the card I doubt I would be able to get the automatic win with it.

For those of you thinking "Oh if it has a chance to just fail, then why are you complaining?" It has the chance to fail, however in this situation that was not the case, the power ended up giving my opponent the automatic win.

If you still think I'm just being a sore loser, a lot of people in the Rank PvP community feel the same way! All you have to do is pull up The Spar Chamber section in the message boards and you will find several results of people's frustration of the broken power Blast of Discord. A power like this shouldn't win you a match in a minute and a half with a click of a button.
A lot of people in the pvp community are sore losers too. I'm sorry you lost this one. I really am but this is why I don't like pvp. It hurts too many egos and creates a lot of trouble for the uniqueness and powers of the job classes because somebody lost a match. Think about it dude and realize your not going to win all the time and its not "broken" when you lose. I die too you know. There are times when the odds are just stacked against you. This happens in real life too. Creates a growing experience. "Rise," my friend.

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9110
Because of the first round freeze of movement this power is devastating Ranked PVP. It practically assures a win IF:
1. The card is pulled first round.
2. And the privateer gets the random luck of a full attack with max damage.
Both these conditions happen too often.
The only counter to BoD is to scatter your companions, but we can't do that in the first round. Personally, I'm against nerfing a trained power just for PVP. Although Charm/Charming Gaze was banned, that wasn't due to impossibility of a counter, but to a mix up in battle order. This isn't the case of BoD, it doesn't interfere with battle order.
However, a solution could be a first round "freeze" on use of BoD. Think about it, first round isn't the only round when companions are grouped together, this also occurs when attacking a single target, and BoD could then be used to protect that target from a gang-up situation.
I feel your pain of fleeing, I was in just the same situation. Like I said, it's happening too often and needs to be addressed.

Admiral
Jul 07, 2013
1124
anecorbie on Aug 24, 2016 wrote:
Because of the first round freeze of movement this power is devastating Ranked PVP. It practically assures a win IF:
1. The card is pulled first round.
2. And the privateer gets the random luck of a full attack with max damage.
Both these conditions happen too often.
The only counter to BoD is to scatter your companions, but we can't do that in the first round. Personally, I'm against nerfing a trained power just for PVP. Although Charm/Charming Gaze was banned, that wasn't due to impossibility of a counter, but to a mix up in battle order. This isn't the case of BoD, it doesn't interfere with battle order.
However, a solution could be a first round "freeze" on use of BoD. Think about it, first round isn't the only round when companions are grouped together, this also occurs when attacking a single target, and BoD could then be used to protect that target from a gang-up situation.
I feel your pain of fleeing, I was in just the same situation. Like I said, it's happening too often and needs to be addressed.
Personally I'm against nerfing a trained power just for pvp

But I'm going to suggest it anyway because

I was just in the same situation and I lost.

Actually with the strength of players now. Charming and charming gaze should be returned to pvp. It does run out.

Maybe privateers should get the power given in the "push" doubloon and then that coin should be removed from the possible doubloon powers.

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9110
DuranteRamses87 on Aug 24, 2016 wrote:
Personally I'm against nerfing a trained power just for pvp

But I'm going to suggest it anyway because

I was just in the same situation and I lost.

Actually with the strength of players now. Charming and charming gaze should be returned to pvp. It does run out.

Maybe privateers should get the power given in the "push" doubloon and then that coin should be removed from the possible doubloon powers.

Virtuous Dante Ramsey
Did I suggest a nerf? No, I didn't, read closer, Dante. I suggested a "freeze" of use of BoD in the first round! This doesn't affect BoD's power at all, just when it's to be used!
A knock back talent like Rooke's "over protection" might be nice.

Lieutenant
May 09, 2013
157
DuranteRamses87 on Aug 24, 2016 wrote:
Personally I'm against nerfing a trained power just for pvp

But I'm going to suggest it anyway because

I was just in the same situation and I lost.

Actually with the strength of players now. Charming and charming gaze should be returned to pvp. It does run out.

Maybe privateers should get the power given in the "push" doubloon and then that coin should be removed from the possible doubloon powers.

Virtuous Dante Ramsey
I want charm in play. Every class should have an ace card, and that, I feel, is the ace card in a witchdoctor's arsenal.

I want charming gaze banned forever. It turns a power unique to witchdoctors into an epic that can be activated every turn. For comparison, try giving buccaneers a chance to reduce an opponent's accuracy for five turns with a normal hit... Every turn for the rest of the game. Try giving a privateer a chance to put a valor's fortress on himself for free when someone attacks him or her... Every turn for the rest of the game.

If you're going to implement that, give us a boss that drops a sneaky sneaky eyepatch. Then see how quickly nobody can get to champ without it.

The bottom line is there should never be a day when matches could (in theory) be indefinitely long because one opponent charms the other every turn.

Admiral
Jul 07, 2013
1124
bluba4 on Aug 25, 2016 wrote:
I want charm in play. Every class should have an ace card, and that, I feel, is the ace card in a witchdoctor's arsenal.

I want charming gaze banned forever. It turns a power unique to witchdoctors into an epic that can be activated every turn. For comparison, try giving buccaneers a chance to reduce an opponent's accuracy for five turns with a normal hit... Every turn for the rest of the game. Try giving a privateer a chance to put a valor's fortress on himself for free when someone attacks him or her... Every turn for the rest of the game.

If you're going to implement that, give us a boss that drops a sneaky sneaky eyepatch. Then see how quickly nobody can get to champ without it.

The bottom line is there should never be a day when matches could (in theory) be indefinitely long because one opponent charms the other every turn.
The lotus mask was unique gear from Faye in the tower. Players who worked hard to get it should be able to use it because they were lucky enough to get it. Buccaneers have a very long chain of epics that work every turn all battle. Charming gaze does not work every time either. Charm only works once.

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9110
DuranteRamses87 on Aug 27, 2016 wrote:
The lotus mask was unique gear from Faye in the tower. Players who worked hard to get it should be able to use it because they were lucky enough to get it. Buccaneers have a very long chain of epics that work every turn all battle. Charming gaze does not work every time either. Charm only works once.

Virtuous Dante Ramsey
I've observed ( in PVE ) that Charm or Charming Gaze won't work if there's only one enemy on the board, because a Charmed enemy is immune from attack.

Lieutenant
May 09, 2013
157
DuranteRamses87 on Aug 27, 2016 wrote:
The lotus mask was unique gear from Faye in the tower. Players who worked hard to get it should be able to use it because they were lucky enough to get it. Buccaneers have a very long chain of epics that work every turn all battle. Charming gaze does not work every time either. Charm only works once.

Virtuous Dante Ramsey
The problem with this logic is that it could be used to justify any item, no matter how powerful. There could be a dungeon that takes six hours to complete but drops a ring that grants black fog and battle zeal and people would say 'well we earned it!'

One of the problems I find in pvp right now is that new people are discouraged from playing because there is such a high 'entry fee.' Even at the lowest ranks, the majority of people wear no auction equipment with cards, and by the time you get to veteran, that's everybody. Then people use crowns companions and super pets, making it near impossible to compete without very good gear. Creating super long/hard dungeons that drop top tier gear will only enlarge the problem.

I have no problem with rewarding dedication, but I ultimately think gear should take a back seat to the powers that a class originally starts out with and can train with practice points. That way, farming can complement the strengths and weaknesses of your class instead of redefining your strategy. Any time a power or talent becomes more desirable than anything else regardless of class, one should stop and consider that it might just be overpowered.

I honestly might not mind if there were witchdoctor no auction drops that granted charming gaze because that lines up with how the class plays. But if masque of the lotus gets let into pvp, it will backfire because buccaneers and swashbucklers will wear it too and use it against readied spell/overwatch/repel boarders. Privateers will drop in the meta like an anvil and all those pets with charming gaze 3 will become monsters.

If you really want to use the masque in pvp, I propose that charming gaze be changed to stun opponents instead of charming them. This would stop the deathly epic chains that are so powerful right now but it wouldn't be so powerful that buccaneers or bucklers would use it over other eyepatches. Nevertheless, reckless frenzy should trigger first to keep it the ace card it should be.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9110
bluba4 on Aug 30, 2016 wrote:
The problem with this logic is that it could be used to justify any item, no matter how powerful. There could be a dungeon that takes six hours to complete but drops a ring that grants black fog and battle zeal and people would say 'well we earned it!'

One of the problems I find in pvp right now is that new people are discouraged from playing because there is such a high 'entry fee.' Even at the lowest ranks, the majority of people wear no auction equipment with cards, and by the time you get to veteran, that's everybody. Then people use crowns companions and super pets, making it near impossible to compete without very good gear. Creating super long/hard dungeons that drop top tier gear will only enlarge the problem.

I have no problem with rewarding dedication, but I ultimately think gear should take a back seat to the powers that a class originally starts out with and can train with practice points. That way, farming can complement the strengths and weaknesses of your class instead of redefining your strategy. Any time a power or talent becomes more desirable than anything else regardless of class, one should stop and consider that it might just be overpowered.

I honestly might not mind if there were witchdoctor no auction drops that granted charming gaze because that lines up with how the class plays. But if masque of the lotus gets let into pvp, it will backfire because buccaneers and swashbucklers will wear it too and use it against readied spell/overwatch/repel boarders. Privateers will drop in the meta like an anvil and all those pets with charming gaze 3 will become monsters.

If you really want to use the masque in pvp, I propose that charming gaze be changed to stun opponents instead of charming them. This would stop the deathly epic chains that are so powerful right now but it wouldn't be so powerful that buccaneers or bucklers would use it over other eyepatches. Nevertheless, reckless frenzy should trigger first to keep it the ace card it should be.
You must realize that Masque of the Lotus' Charming Gaze chance to activate is tied to Will Power; when have you seen a Buck or Buckler with enough Will to overcome the Will of a Witchdoctor or Privy? ( Or even have enough Will to protect from a Charming Gaze? )
As it is most gear drops are allowed in Ranked PVP with a few exceptions, for various reasons due to power or interference with PVP battle order:
Captain Blood's Jacket ( Blood Flames )
Imperial Crown of Moo Manchu ( Flame Wave )
Imperial Boots of Moo Manchu ( Frozen Tide )
Masque of the Lotus ( Charming Gaze )
And that's all, you can still wear these items and receive the benefits from the stats they grant, but you can't use the power card.

Lieutenant
May 09, 2013
157
anecorbie on Aug 30, 2016 wrote:
You must realize that Masque of the Lotus' Charming Gaze chance to activate is tied to Will Power; when have you seen a Buck or Buckler with enough Will to overcome the Will of a Witchdoctor or Privy? ( Or even have enough Will to protect from a Charming Gaze? )
As it is most gear drops are allowed in Ranked PVP with a few exceptions, for various reasons due to power or interference with PVP battle order:
Captain Blood's Jacket ( Blood Flames )
Imperial Crown of Moo Manchu ( Flame Wave )
Imperial Boots of Moo Manchu ( Frozen Tide )
Masque of the Lotus ( Charming Gaze )
And that's all, you can still wear these items and receive the benefits from the stats they grant, but you can't use the power card.
Being based on will power makes it a little better. But still, even if sneaky sneaky was based on agility, don't you think people would start to complain if there was an eyepatch that granted that?

Being based off will also means that poor sarah steele is doomed (not that she was a staple in pvp anyways...) as well as ratbeard unless you go the blade storm 2, HtL 3, FS 3 route.

How about we make an eyepatch that makes reckless frenzy a strength based epic...

I still maintain that the most powerful powers in the game should not be usurped by equally strong epic talents that have the possibility of acting every turn.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9110
bluba4 on Sep 1, 2016 wrote:
Being based on will power makes it a little better. But still, even if sneaky sneaky was based on agility, don't you think people would start to complain if there was an eyepatch that granted that?

Being based off will also means that poor sarah steele is doomed (not that she was a staple in pvp anyways...) as well as ratbeard unless you go the blade storm 2, HtL 3, FS 3 route.

How about we make an eyepatch that makes reckless frenzy a strength based epic...

I still maintain that the most powerful powers in the game should not be usurped by equally strong epic talents that have the possibility of acting every turn.
Both you and Dante make very good points about farming gear drops vs. "OP" talent/power gear used in ranked PVP. I must say that I agree with you both ( such a dilemma! )
So far, KI has taken care to balance ranked PVP, I'm hoping that there will soon be a way to counter this power ( just as the talents are now used to remove or defend against a hidden attacker ) without resorting to a nerf.