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So how is class balance?

1
AuthorMessage
Ensign
Oct 26, 2018
31
In W101, class(school) balance is... not that good. Ice/Balance is very unbalanced (the irony) and storm is VERY weak. I don't know about P101 though. From my research, I guess is too strong and is too weak. Which I don't like, because even though I'm a buckler I am generally a ranged player and I want to make a WD for my next char. But if they are weak, I guess I have to go with . (Tried Privateer too, I like their style but I want to try something new too. I have the least experience with .)

This is just my research though, so how is class balance now? I need to hear the opinions of veterans.

Stormy Isaac, Level 61

Ensign
Oct 16, 2014
18
Ever class is strong in their own way; it's just how you build the class that can make it work in your battles. No class is the weakest, it's only the lack of powers you build for your class.

Community Leader
Yes, witch is the weakest, and it's not remotely close. In a no rules match (where, for examples, Old Scratch and summons like trees are allowed), privy is by far the strongest class. Again, it's not particularly close.

In an environment with rules, privy is still the best class, but it's by a smaller (but still sizeable) margin. However, privy requires tight play to use to its maximum potential. Mistakes on the privateer's end are often very punishing, particularly if they occur in the early game. However, they have the best protection and recovery (4-5 forts, 1-2 absorbs, 5-6 large single heals), some of the most potent buffs (Battle Zeal can single-handedly wipe out an opposing team), all while being able to have enough attacks from gear to efficiently close out a match (2 assassins, 1 brutal charge, other miscellaneous attacks).

In an environment with rules, the middle tier is formed by the other 3 classes (musket, bucc, buckler). These classes are relatively close to each other in terms of balance. However, I think bucc is a little stronger than musket, which in turn is a little stronger than buckler.

Bucc is a class that, imo, is the easiest to get away with mistakes on. The power of a good relent + blade chain can often overcome an early blunder.

Musket, like privy, requires tight play to win consistently. Their pirate is rather fragile, but they are theoretically very effective at preventing an opponent from waging an effective attack (through slows, traps, bombs, and overwatch chains).

Buckler, my main class, is probably the best balanced class in an environment with rules. It has nothing blatantly overpowered and it's relatively intuitive to learn. Even though it's arguably the 'second worst' class (take this with a grain of salt since the middle 3 classes are so close to each other) it's still very much competitive.

So, the top 4 classes are very much competitive with each other. Although privy is top dog, a skilled player of another class will completely destroy a lesser-skilled privy. Unlike wiz's top tier schools, privy doesn't have any tools that are so brainlessly easy to use that they all but guarantee victory.

Witch on the other hand, is essentially hopeless. Witch Hunter has made the class unplayably bad, so your only real way of winning with witch is to a) hope your opponent doesn't have witch hunter, b) doesn't know how witch hunter works, or c) blunders so much for you to win anyways.

TL:DR
  • If you get good at a non-witch class, you'll be able to compete with pretty much anyone (I'd recommend checking fansites like Final Bastion or central to learn how to play well)
  • Witch is only viable in PvE until Witch Hunter is fixed (among other things)

Writer, Editor, Administrator, and Pirate PvP guy at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Captain
Jun 10, 2013
729
Matthew525011 on Jul 24, 2019 wrote:
Yes, witch is the weakest, and it's not remotely close. In a no rules match (where, for examples, Old Scratch and summons like trees are allowed), privy is by far the strongest class. Again, it's not particularly close.

In an environment with rules, privy is still the best class, but it's by a smaller (but still sizeable) margin. However, privy requires tight play to use to its maximum potential. Mistakes on the privateer's end are often very punishing, particularly if they occur in the early game. However, they have the best protection and recovery (4-5 forts, 1-2 absorbs, 5-6 large single heals), some of the most potent buffs (Battle Zeal can single-handedly wipe out an opposing team), all while being able to have enough attacks from gear to efficiently close out a match (2 assassins, 1 brutal charge, other miscellaneous attacks).

In an environment with rules, the middle tier is formed by the other 3 classes (musket, bucc, buckler). These classes are relatively close to each other in terms of balance. However, I think bucc is a little stronger than musket, which in turn is a little stronger than buckler.

Bucc is a class that, imo, is the easiest to get away with mistakes on. The power of a good relent + blade chain can often overcome an early blunder.

Musket, like privy, requires tight play to win consistently. Their pirate is rather fragile, but they are theoretically very effective at preventing an opponent from waging an effective attack (through slows, traps, bombs, and overwatch chains).

Buckler, my main class, is probably the best balanced class in an environment with rules. It has nothing blatantly overpowered and it's relatively intuitive to learn. Even though it's arguably the 'second worst' class (take this with a grain of salt since the middle 3 classes are so close to each other) it's still very much competitive.

So, the top 4 classes are very much competitive with each other. Although privy is top dog, a skilled player of another class will completely destroy a lesser-skilled privy. Unlike wiz's top tier schools, privy doesn't have any tools that are so brainlessly easy to use that they all but guarantee victory.

Witch on the other hand, is essentially hopeless. Witch Hunter has made the class unplayably bad, so your only real way of winning with witch is to a) hope your opponent doesn't have witch hunter, b) doesn't know how witch hunter works, or c) blunders so much for you to win anyways.

TL:DR
  • If you get good at a non-witch class, you'll be able to compete with pretty much anyone (I'd recommend checking fansites like Final Bastion or central to learn how to play well)
  • Witch is only viable in PvE until Witch Hunter is fixed (among other things)
Witchdoctors can win in Ranked PVP, though it is very hard. If a Witchdoctor's companions could hold off the other team for long enough the Witchdoctor might get lucky with Mojo Echo chains and win.

Ensign
Oct 26, 2018
31
Matthew525011 on Jul 24, 2019 wrote:
Yes, witch is the weakest, and it's not remotely close. In a no rules match (where, for examples, Old Scratch and summons like trees are allowed), privy is by far the strongest class. Again, it's not particularly close.

In an environment with rules, privy is still the best class, but it's by a smaller (but still sizeable) margin. However, privy requires tight play to use to its maximum potential. Mistakes on the privateer's end are often very punishing, particularly if they occur in the early game. However, they have the best protection and recovery (4-5 forts, 1-2 absorbs, 5-6 large single heals), some of the most potent buffs (Battle Zeal can single-handedly wipe out an opposing team), all while being able to have enough attacks from gear to efficiently close out a match (2 assassins, 1 brutal charge, other miscellaneous attacks).

In an environment with rules, the middle tier is formed by the other 3 classes (musket, bucc, buckler). These classes are relatively close to each other in terms of balance. However, I think bucc is a little stronger than musket, which in turn is a little stronger than buckler.

Bucc is a class that, imo, is the easiest to get away with mistakes on. The power of a good relent + blade chain can often overcome an early blunder.

Musket, like privy, requires tight play to win consistently. Their pirate is rather fragile, but they are theoretically very effective at preventing an opponent from waging an effective attack (through slows, traps, bombs, and overwatch chains).

Buckler, my main class, is probably the best balanced class in an environment with rules. It has nothing blatantly overpowered and it's relatively intuitive to learn. Even though it's arguably the 'second worst' class (take this with a grain of salt since the middle 3 classes are so close to each other) it's still very much competitive.

So, the top 4 classes are very much competitive with each other. Although privy is top dog, a skilled player of another class will completely destroy a lesser-skilled privy. Unlike wiz's top tier schools, privy doesn't have any tools that are so brainlessly easy to use that they all but guarantee victory.

Witch on the other hand, is essentially hopeless. Witch Hunter has made the class unplayably bad, so your only real way of winning with witch is to a) hope your opponent doesn't have witch hunter, b) doesn't know how witch hunter works, or c) blunders so much for you to win anyways.

TL:DR
  • If you get good at a non-witch class, you'll be able to compete with pretty much anyone (I'd recommend checking fansites like Final Bastion or central to learn how to play well)
  • Witch is only viable in PvE until Witch Hunter is fixed (among other things)
IN SHORT: I have a buckler but he won't be my main. Can I win against a SKILLED Privy as a skilled or , or am I simply forced to make a just to be able to win against good Privies?

I'm really sad about Witch's position, and I guess my dream of making a witch is shattered now. Thank you for your honest response though.

Yeah, I'm a buckler now, but I don't relate a lot to its playstyle, honestly. I think I will either go (the second most familiar class to me regarding my playstyle -after witch-) or (for trying something new as musket was the first class I bought a member on) I might be forced to make a to get to the top though. I don't hate the class, but I've already tried it so not really my preferance.

Either way, this char will probably not be my main since I made the mistake of not choosing Krokotopia-and I don't like the class more than others. (Im not sure if Skull Island is THAT pathetic of a choice though)

I get your point about someone from the 3 middle classes being able to win against a Privy, but what about a Skilled vs Skilled -- Matchup? Would the Privy always (or %70+ of the time) win? Am I forced to make a Privy just to survive against SKILLED Privateers?

Thanks for your input, I'm already a follower of Final Bastion, and not so much of a follower of Central. I'll keep your tips in mind, I'll have many articles to read once I decide upon my main!

Stormy Isaac, the one that writes way too much- Level 63

Ensign
Oct 26, 2018
31
A Spooked Fan on Jul 23, 2019 wrote:
Ever class is strong in their own way; it's just how you build the class that can make it work in your battles. No class is the weakest, it's only the lack of powers you build for your class.
This is not the case in KI games. I wish it was, but it isn't. Some classes are simply better than others in PvP.

Stormy Isaac, Level 63

Gunner's Mate
Sep 04, 2018
268
Matthew525011 on Jul 24, 2019 wrote:
Yes, witch is the weakest, and it's not remotely close. In a no rules match (where, for examples, Old Scratch and summons like trees are allowed), privy is by far the strongest class. Again, it's not particularly close.

In an environment with rules, privy is still the best class, but it's by a smaller (but still sizeable) margin. However, privy requires tight play to use to its maximum potential. Mistakes on the privateer's end are often very punishing, particularly if they occur in the early game. However, they have the best protection and recovery (4-5 forts, 1-2 absorbs, 5-6 large single heals), some of the most potent buffs (Battle Zeal can single-handedly wipe out an opposing team), all while being able to have enough attacks from gear to efficiently close out a match (2 assassins, 1 brutal charge, other miscellaneous attacks).

In an environment with rules, the middle tier is formed by the other 3 classes (musket, bucc, buckler). These classes are relatively close to each other in terms of balance. However, I think bucc is a little stronger than musket, which in turn is a little stronger than buckler.

Bucc is a class that, imo, is the easiest to get away with mistakes on. The power of a good relent + blade chain can often overcome an early blunder.

Musket, like privy, requires tight play to win consistently. Their pirate is rather fragile, but they are theoretically very effective at preventing an opponent from waging an effective attack (through slows, traps, bombs, and overwatch chains).

Buckler, my main class, is probably the best balanced class in an environment with rules. It has nothing blatantly overpowered and it's relatively intuitive to learn. Even though it's arguably the 'second worst' class (take this with a grain of salt since the middle 3 classes are so close to each other) it's still very much competitive.

So, the top 4 classes are very much competitive with each other. Although privy is top dog, a skilled player of another class will completely destroy a lesser-skilled privy. Unlike wiz's top tier schools, privy doesn't have any tools that are so brainlessly easy to use that they all but guarantee victory.

Witch on the other hand, is essentially hopeless. Witch Hunter has made the class unplayably bad, so your only real way of winning with witch is to a) hope your opponent doesn't have witch hunter, b) doesn't know how witch hunter works, or c) blunders so much for you to win anyways.

TL:DR
  • If you get good at a non-witch class, you'll be able to compete with pretty much anyone (I'd recommend checking fansites like Final Bastion or central to learn how to play well)
  • Witch is only viable in PvE until Witch Hunter is fixed (among other things)
witch hunter would be so easy to fix too, simply disallow its use with any weapon type that doesn't involve a staff... if you want witch hunter you should have to use a staff, a shooty staffy weapon, or a melee staffy weapon though if your range is 1 it shouldn't matter as they most likely will be casting at you further away than right next to you (if witch hunter casts further than a range of 1 when using just a sword then that really does need to be fixed, but I don't know if that is the case or not)

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Skill + farmed gear + taking time to practice & train a compatable pet = success against those who don't do this.
A skilled Swashbuckler will beat an unprepared Privateer, no matter what the current meta says.

Community Leader
Wiwade on Jul 24, 2019 wrote:
IN SHORT: I have a buckler but he won't be my main. Can I win against a SKILLED Privy as a skilled or , or am I simply forced to make a just to be able to win against good Privies?

I'm really sad about Witch's position, and I guess my dream of making a witch is shattered now. Thank you for your honest response though.

Yeah, I'm a buckler now, but I don't relate a lot to its playstyle, honestly. I think I will either go (the second most familiar class to me regarding my playstyle -after witch-) or (for trying something new as musket was the first class I bought a member on) I might be forced to make a to get to the top though. I don't hate the class, but I've already tried it so not really my preferance.

Either way, this char will probably not be my main since I made the mistake of not choosing Krokotopia-and I don't like the class more than others. (Im not sure if Skull Island is THAT pathetic of a choice though)

I get your point about someone from the 3 middle classes being able to win against a Privy, but what about a Skilled vs Skilled -- Matchup? Would the Privy always (or %70+ of the time) win? Am I forced to make a Privy just to survive against SKILLED Privateers?

Thanks for your input, I'm already a follower of Final Bastion, and not so much of a follower of Central. I'll keep your tips in mind, I'll have many articles to read once I decide upon my main!

Stormy Isaac, the one that writes way too much- Level 63
To put it bluntly, there aren't many (arguably any) active and truly skilled privateers. Theoretically, a skilled privy would be favored against the other 3 classes, assuming an equally skilled opponent. In an environment with rules, I don't think the privy is winning at a 70%+ rate though.

Writer, Editor, Administrator, and Pirate PvP guy at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Community Leader
RRRRZZZZ419 on Jul 24, 2019 wrote:
Witchdoctors can win in Ranked PVP, though it is very hard. If a Witchdoctor's companions could hold off the other team for long enough the Witchdoctor might get lucky with Mojo Echo chains and win.
Witchdoctors literally (and I mean literally) never use mojo echo chains to win. Witch has more attacking powers than any other class (musket might be a close second), so they're never going to use basic wand attacks. They're going to use their powers when they go on the offensive, which don't trigger mojo echo chains. They also have terribly low base accuracy, so they're incredibly unlikely to land readied spell chains (should they train it) against an elusive target.

Witchdoctor is also far worse in ranked PvP than they are in spar PvP. A small board size coupled with sight blocking obstacles (the barrels) spell doom for a witchdoctor. One of their potential tools to blunt rushes, Exeter, will often be powerless to slow the enemy team. Their next best tool, Widow's Touch, only affects a single target. To make things worse, Time Warp makes an already small board feel even smaller by doubling your opponents' movement range.

They might be able to cheese out wins with Scratch + summons (if their opponent can't hide their pirate and/or other units and rush through the summons' htl/cheap shot), but even then I'd rather be doing that sort of thing on a large board than on a small one.

Writer, Editor, Administrator, and Pirate PvP guy at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Ensign
Oct 26, 2018
31
Matthew525011 on Jul 25, 2019 wrote:
To put it bluntly, there aren't many (arguably any) active and truly skilled privateers. Theoretically, a skilled privy would be favored against the other 3 classes, assuming an equally skilled opponent. In an environment with rules, I don't think the privy is winning at a 70%+ rate though.
OK, I'm kinda starting to research now then. I should probably clarify I will be fighting in an environment without rules though, if that changes anything. (Most likely Ranked, I don't know if it's dead though, never did ranked before)

Thank you for the advice again.

Stormy Isaac, Level 63

Gunner's Mate
Sep 04, 2018
268
Matthew525011 on Jul 25, 2019 wrote:
To put it bluntly, there aren't many (arguably any) active and truly skilled privateers. Theoretically, a skilled privy would be favored against the other 3 classes, assuming an equally skilled opponent. In an environment with rules, I don't think the privy is winning at a 70%+ rate though.
I don't really like privy so much as they lack attacks. Sure they have repel boarders and hold the line and can get relentless three and burst fire three but if they go on the offensive or are approached without setting off their defense talents which more skilled players are well aware of how to get around they simply lack attacks. As such I can't rate them at the top of the pvp list. The only thing I really enjoy about them is they are easily boosted by scratch and they have Emmet but Emmet. The amount of cards they have means nothing if they are killed way before they can play them.

Community Leader
Takhethis on Jul 31, 2019 wrote:
I don't really like privy so much as they lack attacks. Sure they have repel boarders and hold the line and can get relentless three and burst fire three but if they go on the offensive or are approached without setting off their defense talents which more skilled players are well aware of how to get around they simply lack attacks. As such I can't rate them at the top of the pvp list. The only thing I really enjoy about them is they are easily boosted by scratch and they have Emmet but Emmet. The amount of cards they have means nothing if they are killed way before they can play them.
They don't have attacks? That's patently absurd. The standard privy loadout has 2 assassins and a brutal, plus 3 big guns, a haywire strike, and a surge of technomancy. This is more than enough to kill with, particularly if you use your buffed companions effectively. They also have the best offensive buff for companions in battle zeal. Zeal alone eviscerates melee players and their teams. The general gameplan for a privy goes like this:
  • Use zeal to kill the opposing team (maybe using Emmet to get a movement advantage to apply early pressure)
  • Use the remaining companions, your reduce, and your Surge to force out and/or remove your opponent's protection, all while staying protected and at good health (you have Soul Shroud, 5 forts, an absorb, 3 revives, and 1-2 rallies to do this). You can use an assassin if they're underprotected or at mid-health and only 1 round left on a fort
  • Once you've grinded out their resources, use your remaining assassins to kill.
There is no reason for a privy to die early (especially with Contessa's Gallant being a thing) unless they seriously misplay and given an opponent too many attacking opportunities.

Writer, Editor, Administrator, and Pirate PvP guy at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Matthew525011 on Jul 31, 2019 wrote:
They don't have attacks? That's patently absurd. The standard privy loadout has 2 assassins and a brutal, plus 3 big guns, a haywire strike, and a surge of technomancy. This is more than enough to kill with, particularly if you use your buffed companions effectively. They also have the best offensive buff for companions in battle zeal. Zeal alone eviscerates melee players and their teams. The general gameplan for a privy goes like this:
  • Use zeal to kill the opposing team (maybe using Emmet to get a movement advantage to apply early pressure)
  • Use the remaining companions, your reduce, and your Surge to force out and/or remove your opponent's protection, all while staying protected and at good health (you have Soul Shroud, 5 forts, an absorb, 3 revives, and 1-2 rallies to do this). You can use an assassin if they're underprotected or at mid-health and only 1 round left on a fort
  • Once you've grinded out their resources, use your remaining assassins to kill.
There is no reason for a privy to die early (especially with Contessa's Gallant being a thing) unless they seriously misplay and given an opponent too many attacking opportunities.
I think he meant that Privys don't train attacks from the Commodore. And those powers you mention are from gear or using a training point/ grant from pet.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 04, 2018
268
Matthew525011 on Jul 31, 2019 wrote:
They don't have attacks? That's patently absurd. The standard privy loadout has 2 assassins and a brutal, plus 3 big guns, a haywire strike, and a surge of technomancy. This is more than enough to kill with, particularly if you use your buffed companions effectively. They also have the best offensive buff for companions in battle zeal. Zeal alone eviscerates melee players and their teams. The general gameplan for a privy goes like this:
  • Use zeal to kill the opposing team (maybe using Emmet to get a movement advantage to apply early pressure)
  • Use the remaining companions, your reduce, and your Surge to force out and/or remove your opponent's protection, all while staying protected and at good health (you have Soul Shroud, 5 forts, an absorb, 3 revives, and 1-2 rallies to do this). You can use an assassin if they're underprotected or at mid-health and only 1 round left on a fort
  • Once you've grinded out their resources, use your remaining assassins to kill.
There is no reason for a privy to die early (especially with Contessa's Gallant being a thing) unless they seriously misplay and given an opponent too many attacking opportunities.
They don't have chain attacks, I could care less about the number of cards they have. If your battles constantly run out of cards in each others hands you are doing something wrong.

Community Leader
Takhethis on Aug 1, 2019 wrote:
They don't have chain attacks, I could care less about the number of cards they have. If your battles constantly run out of cards in each others hands you are doing something wrong.
For starters, having chain attacks doesn't necessarily make a class good or bad. Chains, while helpful, aren't the bread and butter of any class. Powers are. This is why setups or players that are ultra-reliant on winning via chains are easily shut down with a single reduce. Even the most effective chaining class in the game, buccaneer, needs to have a vast suite of attacking powers (largely due to how reduces shut down most of their chains)

Secondly, the resource war is central to PvP in this game, and privy is dominant in any exchange of resources. This is why they are such a powerful class. They excel at forcing, and then winning, a grindy game. When given the opportunity, they can also close out matches quickly with zeal-buffed companions and high-damage assassins.

To address your second point, any match between 2 high skilled players should end in a pirate vs pirate scenario, with both players using most of their powers. Duels that end prematurely are almost always the result of a blunder from one of the players. As I address in the linked article, threats and answers are pretty much balanced in a PvP environment with rules. Thus, players should (and do) answer their opponents' threats, create their own, creating a back-and-forth.

Writer, Editor, Administrator, and Pirate PvP guy at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Bosun
Aug 10, 2011
304
Matthew525011 on Jul 24, 2019 wrote:
Yes, witch is the weakest, and it's not remotely close. In a no rules match (where, for examples, Old Scratch and summons like trees are allowed), privy is by far the strongest class. Again, it's not particularly close.

In an environment with rules, privy is still the best class, but it's by a smaller (but still sizeable) margin. However, privy requires tight play to use to its maximum potential. Mistakes on the privateer's end are often very punishing, particularly if they occur in the early game. However, they have the best protection and recovery (4-5 forts, 1-2 absorbs, 5-6 large single heals), some of the most potent buffs (Battle Zeal can single-handedly wipe out an opposing team), all while being able to have enough attacks from gear to efficiently close out a match (2 assassins, 1 brutal charge, other miscellaneous attacks).

In an environment with rules, the middle tier is formed by the other 3 classes (musket, bucc, buckler). These classes are relatively close to each other in terms of balance. However, I think bucc is a little stronger than musket, which in turn is a little stronger than buckler.

Bucc is a class that, imo, is the easiest to get away with mistakes on. The power of a good relent + blade chain can often overcome an early blunder.

Musket, like privy, requires tight play to win consistently. Their pirate is rather fragile, but they are theoretically very effective at preventing an opponent from waging an effective attack (through slows, traps, bombs, and overwatch chains).

Buckler, my main class, is probably the best balanced class in an environment with rules. It has nothing blatantly overpowered and it's relatively intuitive to learn. Even though it's arguably the 'second worst' class (take this with a grain of salt since the middle 3 classes are so close to each other) it's still very much competitive.

So, the top 4 classes are very much competitive with each other. Although privy is top dog, a skilled player of another class will completely destroy a lesser-skilled privy. Unlike wiz's top tier schools, privy doesn't have any tools that are so brainlessly easy to use that they all but guarantee victory.

Witch on the other hand, is essentially hopeless. Witch Hunter has made the class unplayably bad, so your only real way of winning with witch is to a) hope your opponent doesn't have witch hunter, b) doesn't know how witch hunter works, or c) blunders so much for you to win anyways.

TL:DR
  • If you get good at a non-witch class, you'll be able to compete with pretty much anyone (I'd recommend checking fansites like Final Bastion or central to learn how to play well)
  • Witch is only viable in PvE until Witch Hunter is fixed (among other things)
Eh, witchdoctors get a ridiculous amount of summons though. If you make a witchdoctor class trained around summons, you can have up to 17 on the battlefield (that's my record). Not even including companions. So honestly yes they are unbalanced, but they are unbalanced in a strong way.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
chiliman05 on Oct 26, 2019 wrote:
Eh, witchdoctors get a ridiculous amount of summons though. If you make a witchdoctor class trained around summons, you can have up to 17 on the battlefield (that's my record). Not even including companions. So honestly yes they are unbalanced, but they are unbalanced in a strong way.
Let's look at those summons - they naturally train 4, three of those are single summons & Stygian Chorus, all of them very weak.
Then I suppose you're counting the top gear for WD The Imperial Robes of Moo Manchu & The Nefarious Staff.
In PVP those robe summons are now linked to the Will of the user. I've never heard of a WD getting the full summons of 9, mostly 3 -5; and once I saw a post where the WD didn't get even one! While difficult to fight, most players are powerful enough to defeat them.
The Nefarious Staff gives 9 scorpions and they're very easy to beat.
So WD summoning 17 ( as you say ) has just wasted 4 - 5 turns. They can summon all they want but those summons aren't going to help them win.

Bosun
Aug 10, 2011
304
anecorbie on Oct 28, 2019 wrote:
Let's look at those summons - they naturally train 4, three of those are single summons & Stygian Chorus, all of them very weak.
Then I suppose you're counting the top gear for WD The Imperial Robes of Moo Manchu & The Nefarious Staff.
In PVP those robe summons are now linked to the Will of the user. I've never heard of a WD getting the full summons of 9, mostly 3 -5; and once I saw a post where the WD didn't get even one! While difficult to fight, most players are powerful enough to defeat them.
The Nefarious Staff gives 9 scorpions and they're very easy to beat.
So WD summoning 17 ( as you say ) has just wasted 4 - 5 turns. They can summon all they want but those summons aren't going to help them win.
That's only if they are alone. Remember, these summons are distractions. It allows for you to get hits in with your companions and your player. You basically have a moving army distracting them if you use summons as well as you're companions.

Bosun
Aug 10, 2011
304
anecorbie on Oct 28, 2019 wrote:
Let's look at those summons - they naturally train 4, three of those are single summons & Stygian Chorus, all of them very weak.
Then I suppose you're counting the top gear for WD The Imperial Robes of Moo Manchu & The Nefarious Staff.
In PVP those robe summons are now linked to the Will of the user. I've never heard of a WD getting the full summons of 9, mostly 3 -5; and once I saw a post where the WD didn't get even one! While difficult to fight, most players are powerful enough to defeat them.
The Nefarious Staff gives 9 scorpions and they're very easy to beat.
So WD summoning 17 ( as you say ) has just wasted 4 - 5 turns. They can summon all they want but those summons aren't going to help them win.
So yes, if the summons aren't going to destroy the entire enemy team by themselves, but with help they can.

Community Leader
chiliman05 on Nov 2, 2019 wrote:
So yes, if the summons aren't going to destroy the entire enemy team by themselves, but with help they can.
The only summons that are problematic are the main summons from gear- Angry Orchard (Trees), Terror Cotta Troupe (Cottas), and Nefarious Staff (Scorps). Trained summons aren't very good, as they have low health, no powers, and are summoned in batches of no more than 5.

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Bosun
Aug 10, 2011
304
Matthew525011 on Nov 4, 2019 wrote:
The only summons that are problematic are the main summons from gear- Angry Orchard (Trees), Terror Cotta Troupe (Cottas), and Nefarious Staff (Scorps). Trained summons aren't very good, as they have low health, no powers, and are summoned in batches of no more than 5.
Yes but they are able to hold off the enemy long enough to allow your companions and allies to do some damage. All of them are very good, put simply, at dying for you.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
chiliman05 on Nov 2, 2019 wrote:
So yes, if the summons aren't going to destroy the entire enemy team by themselves, but with help they can.
So, you're speaking about ( team ) practice PVP in the Spar Chamber and possibly PVE situations. Have you seen what the Nef-5 can do to either the Scorpions or Cotta; not to mention what happens in the Kane fight?

Bosun
Aug 10, 2011
304
anecorbie on Nov 5, 2019 wrote:
So, you're speaking about ( team ) practice PVP in the Spar Chamber and possibly PVE situations. Have you seen what the Nef-5 can do to either the Scorpions or Cotta; not to mention what happens in the Kane fight?
I won both of those with summons, and it went very well. None of my companions went done in either and the summons did the job of wasting the enemies time while my companions got to defensive positions and got boosted.

Community Leader
chiliman05 on Nov 4, 2019 wrote:
Yes but they are able to hold off the enemy long enough to allow your companions and allies to do some damage. All of them are very good, put simply, at dying for you.
Forgive the semi-snarky comment, but I don't think 2 single melee summons (the skeletal pirate and wyvern) that have ~1000 health, do ~100 damage per attack, have terrible stats unless scratch-buffed, and only one epic talent are particularly good at "dying for you." If you summon them early, any sensible opponent will just ignore them and let their pirate's/companions' epics or their incidental AOE damage take the summons out. Even the skeletal corsair and Stygian Chorus aren't much better. The corsair does solid damage and represents a legit threat if you can't hide and are running low on shields, sure, but that assumes that you've scratch-buffed the corsair. Otherwise, a single round spent hitting with a single unit it will probably be sufficient to kill it. Stygian Chorus is obnoxious if scratch-buffed, sure, but it's not broken or game-winningly so. And if it's not scratch-buffed, the chorus is a complete meme. A single first strike+riposte, venge + relent, or ow + burst is sufficient to kill one, and their stats are so mediocre that you're very likely to not miss.

The trained summons are just not worth wasting a tempo on most of the time. At best, you get a scenario where you trade 1-for-1. You spend a round summoning, they spend a round killing the summon. More often than not though, if you use a trained summon, your opponent will probably just ignore it, and let their epics take care of it. Congrats! You've just wasted a round for *maybe* 100-200 points of chip damage if your summon got a hit off before it died.

Don't get me wrong, the main summons from gear *are* problematic (because you can't trade with them at a 1-for-1 or better rate), but trained summons are a joke.

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