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Random power pulling is a problem in pvp

AuthorMessage
Ensign
Dec 23, 2010
5
The title say it so why =

Players set their powers to show up in the order that works for their strategy and play style . But i noticed only 50% of the time you actually get the powers to show as you had them set up or close to it . This can be and it is very bad too often your strategy has and will fail and you will lose a match over it too often as well . On the top of that if you are open to opponents attacks and can't pull a shield you have to discard other important things which will cost you a match as well . For example swashbucklers main power is fog , in rank if you facing a range class with scratch buffs and you cant pull your fog for a long time you will lose that match > Highland on buccaneer is a similar situation , having purge in and when you need it or a valor fortress or a heal .We as players manage as it is now but its not good . It takes away from you as a player to control your play and strategy .

In wizard101 this isn't a problem because powers or spells can be pulled from the treasure card deck . You can't pull a fog or a highland charge from a tc deck in pirate101. We need more control of our powers to show up as you had them set .Some randomness is ok but we should be able to pull our powers 80 or 90 % of the time as we had them set up .

There is allot more to it to explain better why this is important but i have high doubts KI will even read my post more so that they may even consider to make a change to this problem which would benefit the pirate101 pvp.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9748
JeremyDragon5511 on Jul 19, 2019 wrote:
The title say it so why =

Players set their powers to show up in the order that works for their strategy and play style . But i noticed only 50% of the time you actually get the powers to show as you had them set up or close to it . This can be and it is very bad too often your strategy has and will fail and you will lose a match over it too often as well . On the top of that if you are open to opponents attacks and can't pull a shield you have to discard other important things which will cost you a match as well . For example swashbucklers main power is fog , in rank if you facing a range class with scratch buffs and you cant pull your fog for a long time you will lose that match > Highland on buccaneer is a similar situation , having purge in and when you need it or a valor fortress or a heal .We as players manage as it is now but its not good . It takes away from you as a player to control your play and strategy .

In wizard101 this isn't a problem because powers or spells can be pulled from the treasure card deck . You can't pull a fog or a highland charge from a tc deck in pirate101. We need more control of our powers to show up as you had them set .Some randomness is ok but we should be able to pull our powers 80 or 90 % of the time as we had them set up .

There is allot more to it to explain better why this is important but i have high doubts KI will even read my post more so that they may even consider to make a change to this problem which would benefit the pirate101 pvp.
Well, first, depending on one set strategy is death to innovation and creative thinking. Strategy requires you to think out a solution when things aren't perfect.
I believe that the random draw of powers is actually more than 50% ( basing this on observation ). I have won without Fog and have lost with it.
Secondly: KI does read all posts and those which are interesting gets passed to those most concerned about them. I believe having automatically getting your favored powers every time you fight wouldn't be a benefit to PVP.

Community Leader
We had a conversation about this on discord, but I would tend to disagree that this is at all a problem. Sure, there are times when you just get truly awful power pulls that immediately cost you a match, but those are the vast minority. I think having the flexibility and knowledge of your class to be able to construct a coherent gameplan with and without a key power is a hallmark of skillful play. For instance, timing out an opponent's buffs, or rushing in with a single-hide on your pirate is a fine substitute for fog.

In scenarios in the middle game, being able to adapt to the powers you need is skill-testing. Maybe you retreat if you can't pull a shield. Maybe you decide to discard a less needed power to try and pull, say, a hide, after determining that the discarded power won't be integral to your victory.

Finally, this isn't a game of pure strategy. Expecting to utilize the same gameplan (I'd describe this as a linear playstyle) every match won't be effective. This is true regardless of how well your powers cooperate. The answers in this game are very potent, and a smart player will be able to counteract a player that only plays a single strategy. Instead, this is a game of tactics. It's important to be flexible, to learn certain lines of play and how to best respond to your opponents' lines of play, and to have general knowledge of the game. This is much more effective and conducive to success than using the same predictable strategy match after match.

Writer and PvP enthusiast at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Petty Officer
Sep 04, 2018
98
The problem is that the power you put in the very first slot often seems to automatically not show up in most crucial fights, I joke that the reason the game wants to know which power you put in the very first spot is so it will know which card to never give you. The solution to that is simple, the first power you have slotted in your line up ought to pop into your hand first turn 100% of the time, and then those behind it should drop down their likelihood of manifesting the further along the rows go. This should be how it plays in regular game play as well as PvP and people do get upset over this as often they need a specific talent to show first turn so that they have a chance and their companions aren't wiped out on the very first turn in the harder fights.

Petty Officer
Sep 04, 2018
98
My other solution, and one I have argued in the past for on a different account is simply to allow us to remove powers we don't want from our line up / deck entirely. What I have learned to do is not to train everything my class trainer offers. What really upsets me on that is that although you can reset a character it does not let you reset your powers that you already trained that is for your specific class so you can't get rid of the annoying and useless class powers that you already trained. Wizard101 lets players remove cards from their decks, I thought that was a very wise move and as such would love to see it implemented in Pirate101. It would be nice to be able to train everything the class trainers offer, but I'm scared to death to do that as I know it will completely ruin what powers are given to me on the first turn and again when I discard.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9748
Takhethis on Jul 20, 2019 wrote:
My other solution, and one I have argued in the past for on a different account is simply to allow us to remove powers we don't want from our line up / deck entirely. What I have learned to do is not to train everything my class trainer offers. What really upsets me on that is that although you can reset a character it does not let you reset your powers that you already trained that is for your specific class so you can't get rid of the annoying and useless class powers that you already trained. Wizard101 lets players remove cards from their decks, I thought that was a very wise move and as such would love to see it implemented in Pirate101. It would be nice to be able to train everything the class trainers offer, but I'm scared to death to do that as I know it will completely ruin what powers are given to me on the first turn and again when I discard.
If you don't want those "annoying and useless" class powers to show, just put them at the end of your power roster. But I can't think of an "annoying" or "useless" power in my roster, all are useful if you understand them and use them correctly. You are just handicapping yourself needlessly.
Talents, otoh, can be annoying but there is nothing you can do about those, they aren't on your roster and they trigger automatically in correct battle conditions.

Petty Officer
Sep 04, 2018
98
anecorbie on Jul 22, 2019 wrote:
If you don't want those "annoying and useless" class powers to show, just put them at the end of your power roster. But I can't think of an "annoying" or "useless" power in my roster, all are useful if you understand them and use them correctly. You are just handicapping yourself needlessly.
Talents, otoh, can be annoying but there is nothing you can do about those, they aren't on your roster and they trigger automatically in correct battle conditions.
If you believe that then you simply don't play Pirates101. Those at the very end tend to come up first turn a lot while those in the first space or two often never come up first in the harder battles. I swear Pirate101 wants to know which order you prefer your cards will be dealt so that they know which cards not to give you during the harder fights and which cards you hate the most so that they will always give those to you in those fights. As a result I don't tend to put my favorite card in the first slot anymore and I put some of my favorite ones at the very end so they will turn up instead of my absolute least favorite ones.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9748
Takhethis on Jul 24, 2019 wrote:
If you believe that then you simply don't play Pirates101. Those at the very end tend to come up first turn a lot while those in the first space or two often never come up first in the harder battles. I swear Pirate101 wants to know which order you prefer your cards will be dealt so that they know which cards not to give you during the harder fights and which cards you hate the most so that they will always give those to you in those fights. As a result I don't tend to put my favorite card in the first slot anymore and I put some of my favorite ones at the very end so they will turn up instead of my absolute least favorite ones.
I play P101 ( three accounts full ), and I have more than 2 pages of powers, putting those powers at the back page reduces the chance of them showing. I have also drawn my first row powers frequently, very rarely do these fail to show. I'm not sure why players say first slot powers "never" show, maybe they don't notice those fights when they DO show?
I still maintain that depending on a certain card, or set strategy/set team, will cause you to fail more often than a player who strategizes when things go "wrong", or "best" team goes on bed rest.
Come on, don't you see that expecting everything to be "right", drawing the "best" powers and having only the one team is very boring game play?

Ensign
Dec 23, 2010
5
Matthew525011 on Jul 20, 2019 wrote:
We had a conversation about this on discord, but I would tend to disagree that this is at all a problem. Sure, there are times when you just get truly awful power pulls that immediately cost you a match, but those are the vast minority. I think having the flexibility and knowledge of your class to be able to construct a coherent gameplan with and without a key power is a hallmark of skillful play. For instance, timing out an opponent's buffs, or rushing in with a single-hide on your pirate is a fine substitute for fog.

In scenarios in the middle game, being able to adapt to the powers you need is skill-testing. Maybe you retreat if you can't pull a shield. Maybe you decide to discard a less needed power to try and pull, say, a hide, after determining that the discarded power won't be integral to your victory.

Finally, this isn't a game of pure strategy. Expecting to utilize the same gameplan (I'd describe this as a linear playstyle) every match won't be effective. This is true regardless of how well your powers cooperate. The answers in this game are very potent, and a smart player will be able to counteract a player that only plays a single strategy. Instead, this is a game of tactics. It's important to be flexible, to learn certain lines of play and how to best respond to your opponents' lines of play, and to have general knowledge of the game. This is much more effective and conducive to success than using the same predictable strategy match after match.
Yes we do disagree because not only you but most ppl miss the point < This isn't about who is a good player, how can adapt , this isn't about fog period , all that is irrelevant to my point about having more control to set your deck or powers to be able to implement any strategy you have in mind . Which we are able to do in wizard101 .

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9748
JeremyDragon5511 on Jul 26, 2019 wrote:
Yes we do disagree because not only you but most ppl miss the point < This isn't about who is a good player, how can adapt , this isn't about fog period , all that is irrelevant to my point about having more control to set your deck or powers to be able to implement any strategy you have in mind . Which we are able to do in wizard101 .
In W101 you can stuff your deck with any amount of spells you've trained, got from gear or pet grant and yet it's still random.

Community Leader
JeremyDragon5511 on Jul 26, 2019 wrote:
Yes we do disagree because not only you but most ppl miss the point < This isn't about who is a good player, how can adapt , this isn't about fog period , all that is irrelevant to my point about having more control to set your deck or powers to be able to implement any strategy you have in mind . Which we are able to do in wizard101 .
But our power setups are already pretty consistent. I'd say they work well enough to implement the desired gameplan in 75%+ of your matches, as long as there aren't any glaring issues with your setup. That extra 25% is what separates the good players from great players: the ability to adapt if your #1 gameplan somehow goes awry.

Writer and PvP enthusiast at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Ensign
Nov 14, 2009
1
I think power pulling isn't to horrendous in PVP at the moment, the only time I have trouble pulling powers is whilst farming Moo Manchu or Kane etc. Tide and Flames don't always show up for me.

Sincerely,

Awkward William Windlass Level 70 Privateer
Brave William Level 70 Witchdoctor

Ensign
Dec 23, 2010
5
Matthew525011 on Jul 29, 2019 wrote:
But our power setups are already pretty consistent. I'd say they work well enough to implement the desired gameplan in 75%+ of your matches, as long as there aren't any glaring issues with your setup. That extra 25% is what separates the good players from great players: the ability to adapt if your #1 gameplan somehow goes awry.
Well this is more like it , i mean more like what i was thinking so i agree and disagree on the numbers . You believe its 75% i think its less , i think its 50% . In truth only KI would know since we are guessing from what we seen in the game . Not sure if it could be actually tested . There are other major problems that need fixing in pvp first aside from this . I just think a little boost of say like 15 % for the powers to show more consistent would be good for pvp and you would have more control and be able to rely more on your power set up to do your strategy .

Community Leader
JeremyDragon5511 on Jul 30, 2019 wrote:
Well this is more like it , i mean more like what i was thinking so i agree and disagree on the numbers . You believe its 75% i think its less , i think its 50% . In truth only KI would know since we are guessing from what we seen in the game . Not sure if it could be actually tested . There are other major problems that need fixing in pvp first aside from this . I just think a little boost of say like 15 % for the powers to show more consistent would be good for pvp and you would have more control and be able to rely more on your power set up to do your strategy .
As someone who has done PvP in this game for nearly 3 years now, my powers don't fail me in 50% of my matches, and if they're failing you that often, I'd take a look at your power setups to fix any issues.

Maybe we just have differing definitions of what it means for powers to fail. I don't think failing to pull something exactly when you want it is a legitimate failure. It's only a failure when your pulls are so irredeemably bad that you can't salvage the game. Not pulling a certain power when you want it may be inconvenient, but very rarely is it impossible to come back from.

My concern with making powers any more consistent (not that it's a legitimate issue now) is that it would make matches too repetitive and theory-based. I enjoy the variety that the current power system gives. I don't want all my matches to follow the same patterns, which is what would likely happen if consistency was improved too much.

Writer and PvP enthusiast at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Petty Officer
Sep 04, 2018
98
Matthew525011 on Jul 30, 2019 wrote:
As someone who has done PvP in this game for nearly 3 years now, my powers don't fail me in 50% of my matches, and if they're failing you that often, I'd take a look at your power setups to fix any issues.

Maybe we just have differing definitions of what it means for powers to fail. I don't think failing to pull something exactly when you want it is a legitimate failure. It's only a failure when your pulls are so irredeemably bad that you can't salvage the game. Not pulling a certain power when you want it may be inconvenient, but very rarely is it impossible to come back from.

My concern with making powers any more consistent (not that it's a legitimate issue now) is that it would make matches too repetitive and theory-based. I enjoy the variety that the current power system gives. I don't want all my matches to follow the same patterns, which is what would likely happen if consistency was improved too much.
Your fears are not well founded. Just cause you get the first card in your line up all the time doesn't mean you are going to play it right away, it just gives you a lot more options you can actually do. I said I had a fix by not training powers at my trainer, that works fairly well for me and yet I get chastised for it, lol.. ya right, whatever, I know if I train those my deck is going to be forever screwed on the draws. I was told that we would never get the companions we wanted to play with all the time, that changed. I was told that the reason why the companions were so lopsided compared to each other was that it made the game more interesting, that was a bunch of bull. When companions aren't close to equal there is no need to play with those that aren't. The truth is that the developers or whomever wants stuff to be lopsided and wants us to draw horrible cards and wants to know which is our favorite card or cards so they will never come up in harder fights. As a player, I can honestly say that isn't only not fun but it is totally screwed up. If I could unlearn some trainer powers after I have taken them that would be awesome, that is how little respect I have for the dealing system. The only way to get it under control is to simply not take most of everything.

Community Leader
Takhethis on Jul 31, 2019 wrote:
Your fears are not well founded. Just cause you get the first card in your line up all the time doesn't mean you are going to play it right away, it just gives you a lot more options you can actually do. I said I had a fix by not training powers at my trainer, that works fairly well for me and yet I get chastised for it, lol.. ya right, whatever, I know if I train those my deck is going to be forever screwed on the draws. I was told that we would never get the companions we wanted to play with all the time, that changed. I was told that the reason why the companions were so lopsided compared to each other was that it made the game more interesting, that was a bunch of bull. When companions aren't close to equal there is no need to play with those that aren't. The truth is that the developers or whomever wants stuff to be lopsided and wants us to draw horrible cards and wants to know which is our favorite card or cards so they will never come up in harder fights. As a player, I can honestly say that isn't only not fun but it is totally screwed up. If I could unlearn some trainer powers after I have taken them that would be awesome, that is how little respect I have for the dealing system. The only way to get it under control is to simply not take most of everything.
Or you can put your bad powers, like Gallant Defense, Dance/Gambit of Steel, etc. at the bottom of your last page of powers. I do that, and unless I discard 4-5 powers per round, I will NEVER see those powers until very late in any fight. Again, as someone who has played for years in PvE and PvP, I've yet to see my 34th (last) power come up anywhere near the beginning of a fight. This current system is more than fine. If someone is that reliant on a single power showing up on exactly the first round, they should reevaluate their strategy and find a way to adapt.

Writer and PvP enthusiast at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Petty Officer
Sep 04, 2018
98
Matthew525011 on Jul 31, 2019 wrote:
Or you can put your bad powers, like Gallant Defense, Dance/Gambit of Steel, etc. at the bottom of your last page of powers. I do that, and unless I discard 4-5 powers per round, I will NEVER see those powers until very late in any fight. Again, as someone who has played for years in PvE and PvP, I've yet to see my 34th (last) power come up anywhere near the beginning of a fight. This current system is more than fine. If someone is that reliant on a single power showing up on exactly the first round, they should reevaluate their strategy and find a way to adapt.
truth is, if random power pulling wasn't a problem then pirate101 should have absolutely no reason at all for not letting its players remove any unwanted powers that they have in their decks the same way that wizard101 does, and I must say that is what I really want to do and if you think the cards you want to see come up most all the time on the first turn or even on the second after discarding then I know you really haven't been playing this game

Petty Officer
Sep 04, 2018
98
I had to learn a bunch of powers I'd rather not have trained in order to get double tap 2 and quick draw 2 and to get to the bombs with knock back on them. I hated training all the powers I never ever want to show up, and so I put them at the end of the order. Needless to say over half the powers that show up on first turn are those powers. Why can't we remove them from our decks??? My only conclusion is that Pirate101 enjoys making things as irritating as possible when players play. Their promise is that the order that you put them matters and the ones you place first are the most likely to show up, well the ones you put at the end sure do seem to pop up at the start of encounters especially the harder ones, which I believe Pirate101 intentionally gives you the cards at the end and not the beginning of the order whenever you go into the harder fights.

Community Leader
Takhethis on Aug 3, 2019 wrote:
truth is, if random power pulling wasn't a problem then pirate101 should have absolutely no reason at all for not letting its players remove any unwanted powers that they have in their decks the same way that wizard101 does, and I must say that is what I really want to do and if you think the cards you want to see come up most all the time on the first turn or even on the second after discarding then I know you really haven't been playing this game
Yes, the powers in my first row show up at the beginning of fights. Sure, I never get my first 7 powers as my exact opening hand, but that's not to be expected. I never see a page 2 power (20th+ power) in my opening hand and I very rarely see more than one row 3 or row 4. The rule is simple: put the powers you most want to draw in spot one. That is where you will draw it most often. Y

Writer and PvP enthusiast at FinalBastion

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Petty Officer
Sep 04, 2018
98
Matthew525011 on Aug 5, 2019 wrote:
Yes, the powers in my first row show up at the beginning of fights. Sure, I never get my first 7 powers as my exact opening hand, but that's not to be expected. I never see a page 2 power (20th+ power) in my opening hand and I very rarely see more than one row 3 or row 4. The rule is simple: put the powers you most want to draw in spot one. That is where you will draw it most often. Y
I have a completely different experience. Yesterday I was in a fight without a single card in my first row showing up in either the first nor the second turn, and I tossed most everything during the first turn.

Community Leader
Takhethis on Aug 9, 2019 wrote:
I have a completely different experience. Yesterday I was in a fight without a single card in my first row showing up in either the first nor the second turn, and I tossed most everything during the first turn.
You are describing a singular experience. I am describing a trend. I have no doubt that very rarely you get criminally unlucky. I have troubling believing that this is the norm, however. In fact, it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that this is the norm, given that no other person has once corroborated your troubles to the degree that you claim they exist.

Writer and PvP enthusiast at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Petty Officer
Sep 04, 2018
98
Matthew525011 on Aug 9, 2019 wrote:
You are describing a singular experience. I am describing a trend. I have no doubt that very rarely you get criminally unlucky. I have troubling believing that this is the norm, however. In fact, it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that this is the norm, given that no other person has once corroborated your troubles to the degree that you claim they exist.
It is far from a single one time experience, it is quite common. If I were to divide my cards in half between those that are in the deck at the beginning of it and those at the end of it I believe the count of which cards actually manifest will have more in the lower half showing up then in the first half. This is very lame when we can't keep cards out of our decks and the trainers require us to train completely worthless talents to be able to train the ones in which we actually want to use.

I want the ability to keep cards out of my deck. I really don't enjoy tossing the same cards over and over again during every fight, its exhausting. If I want to play with less cards in my deck I should be allowed to do just that.