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Old Scratch Summons Boosting Bug?

AuthorMessage
Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
I have a slight issue I have discovered. If you have addressed already plz repost your reply on here. But I have noticed something odd with the old scratch mojo booster and the various summons from clothing. So someone showed me how doing the old scratch mojo boost first THEN summoning make the summoned creatures stronger! But this is where I get confused. See when scratch was first upgraded I tested it. And recently I tested it again and I found a few major discrepancies.

((These tests were done with a double scratch boost the small one that last 10 rounds and the big one that lasts 3. Also I play on a mac if that makes any difference))

One: It seems to have been nerfed. I recall the scorpions which had a base of 70 on my witch being boosted up to 75-80. And now it only boost up to 73 with a double scratch boost. ((Its possible they buff different in PvP vs PvE…if that’s so please tell me)). Also when I have practice PvP'ed with my buckler friend who already had the tree summons from the new weapon they got boosted a lot from him bringing scratch into the fray. But now that I have the fall weapon it doesn't seem to do anything. ((see point 4))

Two: The above makes no sense…especially considering scratches own summons (the bone musket) boosts from 48 to 108 with the same boost mentioned above!

Three: I noticed the moo warriors from the moo tower robe don’t boost up at all. They are at 65 for everyone!

Four: Now that my witch and buck have the fall weapons I notices in PvE that the buck trees don’t get boosted at all! I used 2 scratch boosts and they stayed at level 67. But with my witch they went from 70 to 73. This doesn’t seem to make sense. If my buck wants to use the weaker scratch shouldn’t he still get the benefits? ((again I haven't tested thins in RANKED pvp...but it seems to hold true fro practice pvp.))

Please let me know if this is how its supposed to be and why? Thank you for your consideration.

Lieutenant
Dec 19, 2011
133
Thomas Sunhammer on Oct 7, 2015 wrote:
I have a slight issue I have discovered. If you have addressed already plz repost your reply on here. But I have noticed something odd with the old scratch mojo booster and the various summons from clothing. So someone showed me how doing the old scratch mojo boost first THEN summoning make the summoned creatures stronger! But this is where I get confused. See when scratch was first upgraded I tested it. And recently I tested it again and I found a few major discrepancies.

((These tests were done with a double scratch boost the small one that last 10 rounds and the big one that lasts 3. Also I play on a mac if that makes any difference))

One: It seems to have been nerfed. I recall the scorpions which had a base of 70 on my witch being boosted up to 75-80. And now it only boost up to 73 with a double scratch boost. ((Its possible they buff different in PvP vs PvE…if that’s so please tell me)). Also when I have practice PvP'ed with my buckler friend who already had the tree summons from the new weapon they got boosted a lot from him bringing scratch into the fray. But now that I have the fall weapon it doesn't seem to do anything. ((see point 4))

Two: The above makes no sense…especially considering scratches own summons (the bone musket) boosts from 48 to 108 with the same boost mentioned above!

Three: I noticed the moo warriors from the moo tower robe don’t boost up at all. They are at 65 for everyone!

Four: Now that my witch and buck have the fall weapons I notices in PvE that the buck trees don’t get boosted at all! I used 2 scratch boosts and they stayed at level 67. But with my witch they went from 70 to 73. This doesn’t seem to make sense. If my buck wants to use the weaker scratch shouldn’t he still get the benefits? ((again I haven't tested thins in RANKED pvp...but it seems to hold true fro practice pvp.))

Please let me know if this is how its supposed to be and why? Thank you for your consideration.
I dont think there is any bug with summons at this time. As Ratbeard said, the only summons that get boosted by spell power are the ones that are summoned from a pirate's or companion's own card, as opposed to the ones from gear (like scorpions, moo robe warriors, orchard trees). So at this time, when I use the spell boost, my hoplites are at a high level, but not the scorpions.

Lieutenant
Feb 02, 2013
119
Thomas Sunhammer on Oct 7, 2015 wrote:
I have a slight issue I have discovered. If you have addressed already plz repost your reply on here. But I have noticed something odd with the old scratch mojo booster and the various summons from clothing. So someone showed me how doing the old scratch mojo boost first THEN summoning make the summoned creatures stronger! But this is where I get confused. See when scratch was first upgraded I tested it. And recently I tested it again and I found a few major discrepancies.

((These tests were done with a double scratch boost the small one that last 10 rounds and the big one that lasts 3. Also I play on a mac if that makes any difference))

One: It seems to have been nerfed. I recall the scorpions which had a base of 70 on my witch being boosted up to 75-80. And now it only boost up to 73 with a double scratch boost. ((Its possible they buff different in PvP vs PvE…if that’s so please tell me)). Also when I have practice PvP'ed with my buckler friend who already had the tree summons from the new weapon they got boosted a lot from him bringing scratch into the fray. But now that I have the fall weapon it doesn't seem to do anything. ((see point 4))

Two: The above makes no sense…especially considering scratches own summons (the bone musket) boosts from 48 to 108 with the same boost mentioned above!

Three: I noticed the moo warriors from the moo tower robe don’t boost up at all. They are at 65 for everyone!

Four: Now that my witch and buck have the fall weapons I notices in PvE that the buck trees don’t get boosted at all! I used 2 scratch boosts and they stayed at level 67. But with my witch they went from 70 to 73. This doesn’t seem to make sense. If my buck wants to use the weaker scratch shouldn’t he still get the benefits? ((again I haven't tested thins in RANKED pvp...but it seems to hold true fro practice pvp.))

Please let me know if this is how its supposed to be and why? Thank you for your consideration.
-According to Ratbeard, in an update Item based minions are based on WILL not spell power. So yes it was nerfed. Even on my Witchdoctor Scorpions no longer goes insane over Double Spell power, so obviously it was hit somewhere. They could have switched the impact of the two(spell power only effects them a bit, while Will highly does)

-Natural Summons you train are based on Spell Power(not nerfed)

-Moo Robes have a default level, regardless of will or spell power.

-I could not tell you the exact reasoning(Since WD's boosted with spell power, but Buccaneer's did not), but I figure it is because of spell power and/or will difference between a Buccaneer and a Witchdoctor(which is pretty high). It sound difficult to boost them though(I don't have much say because I cannot experiment with this power yet)

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
Stormy Sam Templet... on Oct 7, 2015 wrote:
-According to Ratbeard, in an update Item based minions are based on WILL not spell power. So yes it was nerfed. Even on my Witchdoctor Scorpions no longer goes insane over Double Spell power, so obviously it was hit somewhere. They could have switched the impact of the two(spell power only effects them a bit, while Will highly does)

-Natural Summons you train are based on Spell Power(not nerfed)

-Moo Robes have a default level, regardless of will or spell power.

-I could not tell you the exact reasoning(Since WD's boosted with spell power, but Buccaneer's did not), but I figure it is because of spell power and/or will difference between a Buccaneer and a Witchdoctor(which is pretty high). It sound difficult to boost them though(I don't have much say because I cannot experiment with this power yet)
Hmm It would have to be something to do with will. In which case I have no idea why they boosted when I did mojo spell power at all then. I will do some more will testing now and get back to you all. Also if you guys could refer me to where Ratbeard said all this I would appreciate reading that for myself.

Lieutenant
Aug 29, 2008
146
Thomas Sunhammer on Oct 7, 2015 wrote:
Hmm It would have to be something to do with will. In which case I have no idea why they boosted when I did mojo spell power at all then. I will do some more will testing now and get back to you all. Also if you guys could refer me to where Ratbeard said all this I would appreciate reading that for myself.
It was just changed with the update last week, even though it wasn't written on the update notes. So yes, you are correct, prior to the latest update the Scorpions and Orchard trees could get boosted by Spell Power to level 100+. After the update though, summons from gear (Scorpions, Orchard, etc) are no longer boosted by Spell power.

Here is the thread where Ratbeard addresses the issue

Here is the relevant quote you are looking for:

"Summons that you cast yourself should be affected by Spell Power.

Summons that you cast from an item should only boost with WILL. (The base level of the summons in this case is defined by the item in question.)

Summon Scorpion Swarm should be so limited."

So it seems the scorpion swarm getting boosted by spell power to begin with was a bug, and as such has been fixed since last Thursday. You will however notice that your own summons (specially the 5 skeletons power) will still get boosted by Spell Power and go up to around level 110 with 100% spell power buff. This also applies to Old Scratch's own summon since it is a summon he casts himself.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
Ok so I did more tests here are the new results. Quentin is right the learned summons like the chorus are indeed boosted by mojo! And a lot too! :D Well thats cool. I did think they needed some sort of buff. Though their damage, health, and epics are still kind of low in comparison to the clothing ones. Like the chorus has a cap of 863 health when they go above level 115 and their damage doesnt go much higher than 150 if they don't critical. To compare the scorpions at their lowest level have 1048 and do that damage already. It kind of feels like the chorus and other bone guys...are higher in name only. And that their stats dont really improve that much. That might be false...but it's how it FEELS when I was testing it.

As for the gear ones...here are my results. I tested them in PvE where stacking boosts is still allowed. So keep that in mind. In PvP these results are going to be MUCH smaller.

My witch when summoning the scorpions with out boosts spits out level 70 companions (varies on personal will and mojo so here is my base for reference purposes)

With a double mojo boost (small and large) from scratch they go up to 73. As Quentin pointed out...this one makes no sense. Since the buck ones didn't go up at all with a mojo increases. I feel like I am missing something here.

With a double will boost (medium AND large)...they only went up to Lvl 75. Hmm...I thought this was a bit anti climactic. Especially considering that it was a double boost...which...I cant even do in pvp.

I DO like the idea of it being boosted off of will. That makes it so the schools that need it...like witches and privy can get the most benefit. But I think maybe it should be more significant than it is. Like...I think they nerfed it a little TOO much. Does anyone agree? I think half way between where they were before and where they are now would be perfect. Strong enough so that the schools that rely on summons have a fighting chance...but not so over powered they kill with ease.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
Ok one last comment about companions and summoning for a while and then I will let people share their oppinions. And its is concerning the orchard. Comparatively...they are good...but only barely so. If you use the scorpions as a base...they trees are better...kinda. I am talking as a witch lover/player in this post.

So the moo warriors were the strongest...but since their double nerfing and the fact they dont get stronger from will makes them kind of useless. The scorpions are great at getting to the enemy and surrounding them then punishing them if they try to escape with their VERY accurate cheap shots. The trees however (which you have to work REALLY HARD to get...especially as a witch) should be a little stronger than they are.

But the real question is "How do you make them stronger without making them over powered?" I have given this a lot of thought. More epics would be nice like giving the hold the line 3 or cheap shot as well like the moo warriors had. If your willing to do that then SWEET! But if not there is a much smaller boost you could do that would make a big difference. And that is to fix their movement speed! It is SOOOO super tiny! I think its like 2 or 3 tops. It takes forever just for them to get to a target and by that time most of them are picked off from long range stuff. And the battle boards arent even big yet! Wait till they are enlarged! I am not saying you need to give them vicious charge or anything like the moo warriors had. But giving them as much movement speed as the bone summons or scorpions isnt a huge deal but would make them more viable. Like it would give them that little bit more of an edge to make them a worth while replacement/upgrade to the scorpion staff.

Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
382
Thomas Sunhammer on Oct 7, 2015 wrote:
Ok so I did more tests here are the new results. Quentin is right the learned summons like the chorus are indeed boosted by mojo! And a lot too! :D Well thats cool. I did think they needed some sort of buff. Though their damage, health, and epics are still kind of low in comparison to the clothing ones. Like the chorus has a cap of 863 health when they go above level 115 and their damage doesnt go much higher than 150 if they don't critical. To compare the scorpions at their lowest level have 1048 and do that damage already. It kind of feels like the chorus and other bone guys...are higher in name only. And that their stats dont really improve that much. That might be false...but it's how it FEELS when I was testing it.

As for the gear ones...here are my results. I tested them in PvE where stacking boosts is still allowed. So keep that in mind. In PvP these results are going to be MUCH smaller.

My witch when summoning the scorpions with out boosts spits out level 70 companions (varies on personal will and mojo so here is my base for reference purposes)

With a double mojo boost (small and large) from scratch they go up to 73. As Quentin pointed out...this one makes no sense. Since the buck ones didn't go up at all with a mojo increases. I feel like I am missing something here.

With a double will boost (medium AND large)...they only went up to Lvl 75. Hmm...I thought this was a bit anti climactic. Especially considering that it was a double boost...which...I cant even do in pvp.

I DO like the idea of it being boosted off of will. That makes it so the schools that need it...like witches and privy can get the most benefit. But I think maybe it should be more significant than it is. Like...I think they nerfed it a little TOO much. Does anyone agree? I think half way between where they were before and where they are now would be perfect. Strong enough so that the schools that rely on summons have a fighting chance...but not so over powered they kill with ease.
I agree about WD personal summons boosted by spell power, I tested them too... and I end up with same conclusion as you: they barely changed.

In short, they're still useless.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
Silver Angel on Oct 7, 2015 wrote:
I agree about WD personal summons boosted by spell power, I tested them too... and I end up with same conclusion as you: they barely changed.

In short, they're still useless.
Which is weird right? Like with double boosts I was able to get the stygian chorus guys up to 120 something. Was insane...or so I thought at first. But their health caps out at 864 or something...and their damage doesn't really increase all that much. The other gear summons still do more damage over all and have better epic sets.

This needs to be fixed I think. For those of you who are scared by the number 120 dont worry...that is only in PvE where you can quadruple or even quintuple boost! In PvP...You can do 1 or 2 tops if you do both mojo and will. And even then its not reliable since there is a decent chance the card you need might not come up or you will have to play something else.

So this was CLOSE to fixing the witches...but not close enough.

Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
382
Thomas Sunhammer on Oct 8, 2015 wrote:
Which is weird right? Like with double boosts I was able to get the stygian chorus guys up to 120 something. Was insane...or so I thought at first. But their health caps out at 864 or something...and their damage doesn't really increase all that much. The other gear summons still do more damage over all and have better epic sets.

This needs to be fixed I think. For those of you who are scared by the number 120 dont worry...that is only in PvE where you can quadruple or even quintuple boost! In PvP...You can do 1 or 2 tops if you do both mojo and will. And even then its not reliable since there is a decent chance the card you need might not come up or you will have to play something else.

So this was CLOSE to fixing the witches...but not close enough.
Yeah, maybe they capped them on purpose, fearing they might be overpowered...

Or it's a bug.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
So does anyone else think the orchard should get a boost or too as well? Its just I had hoped they would be better even if only a tiny bit than the scorpions but they aren't. The scorpions have 3 major advantages that put them on par or better than the trees.

1 and 2 are both because of the school.
1) Because they are bucklers they do just as much if not MORE damage than the trees. Except for when the trees use up their one super strike card they do less over all damage since the bucklers naturally have so much more. Even after tide the trees just barely catch up.

2) Because they are bucklers at high levels they have tons of dodge! Even with an accuracy boost and the scorpions with no dodge boost my guys still miss a lot! And when the little buggers have 1000-1200 health you can't afford to miss.

3) Their movement speed. They can get all the way across the board in no time! Which makes it so they can at least get a hit or two in even if the enemy is trying to pick them off.

The trees on the other hand take forever to get there. They have less damage until they are below half. Even with double boosts they rarely dodge. Hold the line is their only redeeming factor and it doesn't even work on cloak. So essentially buckler, musket, witches, and mojo privy's all tear the trees apart or bypass them before they can do much of anything.

Can you gets some sort of boost? You dont have to put them at terror cotta level. But possible suggestion that by them selves would help a lot. Turn the tide 3 (will help with accuracy and dodge since they have none. And it still only works after half health is gone). More armor. More movement speed. Vicioius charge but NOT movement speed increase? ((that way they still have to walk all slow to get close enough...since even with charge that only moves their movement from 3-6. Scorpions can move that much without anything I think just as a point of reference)) Relentless 1. You can choose 1 or 2 of these. Anything to give them an edge.

Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
382
Thomas Sunhammer on Oct 10, 2015 wrote:
So does anyone else think the orchard should get a boost or too as well? Its just I had hoped they would be better even if only a tiny bit than the scorpions but they aren't. The scorpions have 3 major advantages that put them on par or better than the trees.

1 and 2 are both because of the school.
1) Because they are bucklers they do just as much if not MORE damage than the trees. Except for when the trees use up their one super strike card they do less over all damage since the bucklers naturally have so much more. Even after tide the trees just barely catch up.

2) Because they are bucklers at high levels they have tons of dodge! Even with an accuracy boost and the scorpions with no dodge boost my guys still miss a lot! And when the little buggers have 1000-1200 health you can't afford to miss.

3) Their movement speed. They can get all the way across the board in no time! Which makes it so they can at least get a hit or two in even if the enemy is trying to pick them off.

The trees on the other hand take forever to get there. They have less damage until they are below half. Even with double boosts they rarely dodge. Hold the line is their only redeeming factor and it doesn't even work on cloak. So essentially buckler, musket, witches, and mojo privy's all tear the trees apart or bypass them before they can do much of anything.

Can you gets some sort of boost? You dont have to put them at terror cotta level. But possible suggestion that by them selves would help a lot. Turn the tide 3 (will help with accuracy and dodge since they have none. And it still only works after half health is gone). More armor. More movement speed. Vicioius charge but NOT movement speed increase? ((that way they still have to walk all slow to get close enough...since even with charge that only moves their movement from 3-6. Scorpions can move that much without anything I think just as a point of reference)) Relentless 1. You can choose 1 or 2 of these. Anything to give them an edge.
I dont know the Orchard Treants, dont own them and havent seen them in battle.

However from what you're posting, they dont seem that bad to me, hold the line alone helps squishy WD, and probably any other class as they probably prevent bucaneers from charging early.

Also bear in mind the weapon itself compared to scorpion staff is much better, range 5 staff vs range 3 (and maybe more weapon damage? not sure) plus whatever other card it grants.

As a privateer it allows me to use a melee weapon and still have 9 summons, I dont have to use staffy range 3 anymore, and I can see it is an advantage for other classes as well.

So all in all I think it might even things out, correct me if I'm wrong :)

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
Silver Angel on Oct 11, 2015 wrote:
I dont know the Orchard Treants, dont own them and havent seen them in battle.

However from what you're posting, they dont seem that bad to me, hold the line alone helps squishy WD, and probably any other class as they probably prevent bucaneers from charging early.

Also bear in mind the weapon itself compared to scorpion staff is much better, range 5 staff vs range 3 (and maybe more weapon damage? not sure) plus whatever other card it grants.

As a privateer it allows me to use a melee weapon and still have 9 summons, I dont have to use staffy range 3 anymore, and I can see it is an advantage for other classes as well.

So all in all I think it might even things out, correct me if I'm wrong :)
Well the privateer thing your are dead right about. My privy is drooling over the idea of a melee weapon that can also summon. I am pvp with him right now for that chance.

As for the witch benefit that one is a toss up. I been talking to my friend and he says its sort of hard to choose between them. The 5 range DOES give him further reach for mojo storm. However you LOOSE the spread out mass damage ability which is really nice if the opponent also busts out lots of summons. And it actually has less damage. AND you loose the jobu rouse which is good for witches since their accuracy is kind of shafted. My buddy who has both and uses both says that the scorpions are kind of better in the long run cause they can self defend themselves with their dodge and thus survive better.

My disappointment comes from the fact that the scorpions are still better then the pvp weapon you have to fight tooth and nail to gain when the staff is relatively easy to gain. And as you pointed out is really only good for witches since all the other schools are no good with staffs. We dont have to over power the trees. They just need a little bit extra. Movement speed alone is a big one. A tree in the back of the line...has to run in the wrong direction because his movement speed ISNT ENOUGH to walk past his fellow trees. So half your trees run the wrong way the moment they appear then take forever to get to their target. Like the hold the line alone isn't quite enough. They need a little more.

Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
382
Thomas Sunhammer on Oct 12, 2015 wrote:
Well the privateer thing your are dead right about. My privy is drooling over the idea of a melee weapon that can also summon. I am pvp with him right now for that chance.

As for the witch benefit that one is a toss up. I been talking to my friend and he says its sort of hard to choose between them. The 5 range DOES give him further reach for mojo storm. However you LOOSE the spread out mass damage ability which is really nice if the opponent also busts out lots of summons. And it actually has less damage. AND you loose the jobu rouse which is good for witches since their accuracy is kind of shafted. My buddy who has both and uses both says that the scorpions are kind of better in the long run cause they can self defend themselves with their dodge and thus survive better.

My disappointment comes from the fact that the scorpions are still better then the pvp weapon you have to fight tooth and nail to gain when the staff is relatively easy to gain. And as you pointed out is really only good for witches since all the other schools are no good with staffs. We dont have to over power the trees. They just need a little bit extra. Movement speed alone is a big one. A tree in the back of the line...has to run in the wrong direction because his movement speed ISNT ENOUGH to walk past his fellow trees. So half your trees run the wrong way the moment they appear then take forever to get to their target. Like the hold the line alone isn't quite enough. They need a little more.
Yeah I see your point :) A little move range boost might solve it then.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
Silver Angel on Oct 12, 2015 wrote:
Yeah I see your point :) A little move range boost might solve it then.
Right? Like I am not asking for a ton. I dont want them becoming dapple gangers of the moo warriors. You dont have to give them brutal charge if you want ((though with their movement speed as bad as it is right now they would still have to be within 6 squares to even make THAT work lol)). You dont have to give them a million epics.
Just a little movement speed...or maybe and extra hold the line. Or something. They just need a tiny bit more.