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Nothing is Unbeatable

AuthorMessage
Gunner's Mate
Aug 08, 2010
288
This will be a response to all of the angry and frustrated PvPers who are struggling against the new Ranked PvP updates. Whether you think that the moo robe is too OP, that swashbucklers are OP or that it's impossible to win against a certain class, the message applies to you all.
Think. Not to say that you aren't thinking already, but there is no situation in which you cannot overcome your odds.
The moo robe is op? You can work around it. Set up a wall of Overwatch or Hold the line on your companions. Use a drain spell. Try the knockback bombs. Think of something that suits you and stops the problem.
Don't demand nerfs, because nerfing is never the answer. Asking for a nerf in some cases is like saying:
"I give up. This piece of gear/class is ultimately stronger than I am, and i will never beat it. Now let me wallow in self pity and plead for a change to this instability. Oh, how cruel fate is" (Well maybe that was exaggeration XD)
You can see the point. Nothing is "unbeatable". But at the same time, games aren't just about winning. Sometimes, losing gives you the needed experience to move forward.

Merciless Jean Percy, 65
Merciless Jack Ramsey, 65
Merciless Cass Spencer, 65

Ensign
Sep 15, 2014
14
That was well said, I've seen too many people asking someone to "fix" the moo robe, this statement completely shows how ridiculous some people are being!

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10117
Nuclear bombs , However, yes, with strategy and a little bit of luck you can find a way to beat anything. I beat a swashbuckler who was using the robes and he used Black Fog ( and this combo is thought "unbeatable" ).

Admiral
Jun 02, 2013
1470
I think the hide purge magic combo is unbeatable

Ensign
Nov 29, 2013
18
DeathWiz101378 on Aug 20, 2015 wrote:
This will be a response to all of the angry and frustrated PvPers who are struggling against the new Ranked PvP updates. Whether you think that the moo robe is too OP, that swashbucklers are OP or that it's impossible to win against a certain class, the message applies to you all.
Think. Not to say that you aren't thinking already, but there is no situation in which you cannot overcome your odds.
The moo robe is op? You can work around it. Set up a wall of Overwatch or Hold the line on your companions. Use a drain spell. Try the knockback bombs. Think of something that suits you and stops the problem.
Don't demand nerfs, because nerfing is never the answer. Asking for a nerf in some cases is like saying:
"I give up. This piece of gear/class is ultimately stronger than I am, and i will never beat it. Now let me wallow in self pity and plead for a change to this instability. Oh, how cruel fate is" (Well maybe that was exaggeration XD)
You can see the point. Nothing is "unbeatable". But at the same time, games aren't just about winning. Sometimes, losing gives you the needed experience to move forward.

Merciless Jean Percy, 65
Merciless Jack Ramsey, 65
Merciless Cass Spencer, 65
I can tell by just your language style and your name of your pirates that almost ever do pvp before the update of rank or now how:

1.never seen u in hall all the pvp community doesn't know u
2.all pvp players agree on robe being to op and should be lowered or balanced
3. U can't just simply waste knock backs if u are a musket on the terra it would let the swashbuckler fog team destroy u and your team or the buck.
4.u can sacrifice good companions for those of your a buckler Bonnie would get destroyed by a nausica hold the line would take up 2d epics and a companion which wouldn't be any use because of low range such as a buckler or buck using rat beard or. A buck companion.
5. Use a drain spell would require using tie training totems which u can use on their importent things such as a mini fort or triton song or a buff or it would require sacrificing a price of gear which could be a fort levy or valor armor heal or attack.

Lieutenant
May 09, 2013
157
I'm rank hero right now as a buccaneer and I can say I've beaten several people with black fog and/or terracotta warriors. What you need to understand is that OP doesn't mean impossible. In my experience it is shown when almost all the higher level players use a single item. It's also based on logic. Let me explain:

I hold to the idea that the best abilities in the game should be class specific, that way classes are encouraged to use their unique talents and powers. Black fog falls in this category. It's a swashbuckler specific ability that plays to the high damage output philosophy of swashbucklers. Same goes for reckless frenzy, tempest of torpedoes, etc.

On the other hand, the terracotta troop is an ability that every class can get, and every class is certainly using it! The fact that the warriors can reduce the entire opposing team's accuracy in half makes it have a buccaneer class feel. Same goes for their shields. Because it's also a summon, it fits in a witchdoctor deck. Privateers can even use it with battle zeal.

However, swashbucklers and musketeers are using this as well. The troop doesn't fit into the philosophy of those classes at all! Why do they use the robe then? My theory is that it's overpowered. Think about this for a second: If the majority of witchdoctors started abandoning their staffy weapons for a slashy/smashy one just so they could use vicious charges, wouldn't that be an indication that something is wrong? The same thing applies here. Swashbucklers are gladly trading an assassin's strike and either poison or walk in darkness for this power. The high level players that don't use the robe probably just don't have it.

Please don't label me as a senseless poor sport that likes to complain all the time, or one who wants an "easy win." I am asking you to see through the emotion and drama and look at the facts. The moo robe reduces accuracy more effectively than an entire team of buccaneers. Something is wrong, dare I say OP.

Gunner's Mate
Aug 08, 2010
288
Myhomie541 on Aug 22, 2015 wrote:
I can tell by just your language style and your name of your pirates that almost ever do pvp before the update of rank or now how:

1.never seen u in hall all the pvp community doesn't know u
2.all pvp players agree on robe being to op and should be lowered or balanced
3. U can't just simply waste knock backs if u are a musket on the terra it would let the swashbuckler fog team destroy u and your team or the buck.
4.u can sacrifice good companions for those of your a buckler Bonnie would get destroyed by a nausica hold the line would take up 2d epics and a companion which wouldn't be any use because of low range such as a buckler or buck using rat beard or. A buck companion.
5. Use a drain spell would require using tie training totems which u can use on their importent things such as a mini fort or triton song or a buff or it would require sacrificing a price of gear which could be a fort levy or valor armor heal or attack.
1. I'm pretty sure the community does know me, I've been playing since the Aquila update almost two years ago, and I am on central and ladders. Haven't been playing for a while, but i did start again a while back.
2. All PvP players agree? I doubt that. You can't ask every single player because you don't know everey single player.
3. Using the gear farmed at the tower of moo, you can use any type of bombs to scare off the enemy. Maybe you don't want to use your knockbacks. Since it's very hard to tell which bombs are knockback and which aren't, you can scare your opponent after using some normal bombs on the troops.
4. Not everyone has Nausica. And bonnie doesn't need Quick Draw. Hold the line is used to block off melee units. That's its purpose. And its a suggestion that you can adjust.
5.What? So you can't use jobu's embrace as a witchdoctor without a totem?

Gunner's Mate
Aug 08, 2010
288
bluba4 on Aug 22, 2015 wrote:
I'm rank hero right now as a buccaneer and I can say I've beaten several people with black fog and/or terracotta warriors. What you need to understand is that OP doesn't mean impossible. In my experience it is shown when almost all the higher level players use a single item. It's also based on logic. Let me explain:

I hold to the idea that the best abilities in the game should be class specific, that way classes are encouraged to use their unique talents and powers. Black fog falls in this category. It's a swashbuckler specific ability that plays to the high damage output philosophy of swashbucklers. Same goes for reckless frenzy, tempest of torpedoes, etc.

On the other hand, the terracotta troop is an ability that every class can get, and every class is certainly using it! The fact that the warriors can reduce the entire opposing team's accuracy in half makes it have a buccaneer class feel. Same goes for their shields. Because it's also a summon, it fits in a witchdoctor deck. Privateers can even use it with battle zeal.

However, swashbucklers and musketeers are using this as well. The troop doesn't fit into the philosophy of those classes at all! Why do they use the robe then? My theory is that it's overpowered. Think about this for a second: If the majority of witchdoctors started abandoning their staffy weapons for a slashy/smashy one just so they could use vicious charges, wouldn't that be an indication that something is wrong? The same thing applies here. Swashbucklers are gladly trading an assassin's strike and either poison or walk in darkness for this power. The high level players that don't use the robe probably just don't have it.

Please don't label me as a senseless poor sport that likes to complain all the time, or one who wants an "easy win." I am asking you to see through the emotion and drama and look at the facts. The moo robe reduces accuracy more effectively than an entire team of buccaneers. Something is wrong, dare I say OP.
I agree with your post. In the tower of moo all the non auction gear only has your class' powers (with a few exceptions), so the moo robe being avaliable for every class doesn't fit in.
But, my post was directed to people who said it was impossible to beat. I didn't say OP means impossible, though.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10117
bluba4 on Aug 22, 2015 wrote:
I'm rank hero right now as a buccaneer and I can say I've beaten several people with black fog and/or terracotta warriors. What you need to understand is that OP doesn't mean impossible. In my experience it is shown when almost all the higher level players use a single item. It's also based on logic. Let me explain:

I hold to the idea that the best abilities in the game should be class specific, that way classes are encouraged to use their unique talents and powers. Black fog falls in this category. It's a swashbuckler specific ability that plays to the high damage output philosophy of swashbucklers. Same goes for reckless frenzy, tempest of torpedoes, etc.

On the other hand, the terracotta troop is an ability that every class can get, and every class is certainly using it! The fact that the warriors can reduce the entire opposing team's accuracy in half makes it have a buccaneer class feel. Same goes for their shields. Because it's also a summon, it fits in a witchdoctor deck. Privateers can even use it with battle zeal.

However, swashbucklers and musketeers are using this as well. The troop doesn't fit into the philosophy of those classes at all! Why do they use the robe then? My theory is that it's overpowered. Think about this for a second: If the majority of witchdoctors started abandoning their staffy weapons for a slashy/smashy one just so they could use vicious charges, wouldn't that be an indication that something is wrong? The same thing applies here. Swashbucklers are gladly trading an assassin's strike and either poison or walk in darkness for this power. The high level players that don't use the robe probably just don't have it.

Please don't label me as a senseless poor sport that likes to complain all the time, or one who wants an "easy win." I am asking you to see through the emotion and drama and look at the facts. The moo robe reduces accuracy more effectively than an entire team of buccaneers. Something is wrong, dare I say OP.
1. Use anything that will hit and damage the Cotta before they get close to you and use their charge Musketeers have the best chance in this, you don't have to use bombs - just use your shooting powers. Privateers - its best to hit them with the Big Guns, etc. Witchdoctors can Mojo Storm. Everyone else has Gunnery at least ( this is what I used, as well as Hurl Knives ). Once you have wounded them badly they will start to explode and begin a chain reaction taking themselves out.
2. use companions with HL3 and let them take the brunt of the attack ( I had great success with Ratbeard doing this ).
3. if the one using the robe is a buckler, they will fog, be prepared for this by shielding, or hiding yourself.
4. accept the fact that you may lose one or two companions.
5. when the buckler comes out of hide, hit them with everything you have. Not all of them have Purge, so you have a good chance.
I repeat, I have beaten a swashbuckler using the Moo Robes - it can be done.

Lieutenant
May 09, 2013
157
anecorbie on Aug 23, 2015 wrote:
1. Use anything that will hit and damage the Cotta before they get close to you and use their charge Musketeers have the best chance in this, you don't have to use bombs - just use your shooting powers. Privateers - its best to hit them with the Big Guns, etc. Witchdoctors can Mojo Storm. Everyone else has Gunnery at least ( this is what I used, as well as Hurl Knives ). Once you have wounded them badly they will start to explode and begin a chain reaction taking themselves out.
2. use companions with HL3 and let them take the brunt of the attack ( I had great success with Ratbeard doing this ).
3. if the one using the robe is a buckler, they will fog, be prepared for this by shielding, or hiding yourself.
4. accept the fact that you may lose one or two companions.
5. when the buckler comes out of hide, hit them with everything you have. Not all of them have Purge, so you have a good chance.
I repeat, I have beaten a swashbuckler using the Moo Robes - it can be done.
Look, I've beaten a buckler with the robe as well. At lower levels, they think black fog and moo robe gives them an automatic victory, but it doesn't. I'm talking about top level players here.

I initially didn't mind the robe, but once I got past rank veteran things changed. The buckler is smart enough to train tough on their buckler companions, they have good pet grants, and many of them don't use black fog first turn. I started to realize just how much of a game changer the robe is.

I had a match today where I killed all three of my opponent's companions while only losing one. My character and my two companions were all over half health but my opponent was around half health.

Guess what? He won. How? He went hidden, summoned moo minions, purged shields, put armor on himself, then mojo storm plus mojo reaver plus I can't hit anything equals gg.

I did everything I could. My two remaining companions had second chance and turn the tide two. I used dispel magic to get rid of debuffs and moo minions charged everyone next turn again.

Tell me what to do when you're a hero level Buccaneer who doesn't have goro, nausica, or moo robe. I have gunnery but that won't destroy them. Moo minions have high strength so us buccs don't critical well for blade storm. We don't come with ANY AoE. All of our talents and powers rely on two things: strength and accuracy. When facing nine high strength minions that cut your accuracy in half, reckless frenzy is out the door, as is relentless.

If the ai fixes aren't working, ki needs to consider lowering moo troop to five minions instead of nine.

Let me know when you become a champion without being a swashbuckler, without crowns gear or companions, and without a moo robe.

Admiral
Jun 02, 2013
1470
DeathWiz101378 on Aug 23, 2015 wrote:
1. I'm pretty sure the community does know me, I've been playing since the Aquila update almost two years ago, and I am on central and ladders. Haven't been playing for a while, but i did start again a while back.
2. All PvP players agree? I doubt that. You can't ask every single player because you don't know everey single player.
3. Using the gear farmed at the tower of moo, you can use any type of bombs to scare off the enemy. Maybe you don't want to use your knockbacks. Since it's very hard to tell which bombs are knockback and which aren't, you can scare your opponent after using some normal bombs on the troops.
4. Not everyone has Nausica. And bonnie doesn't need Quick Draw. Hold the line is used to block off melee units. That's its purpose. And its a suggestion that you can adjust.
5.What? So you can't use jobu's embrace as a witchdoctor without a totem?
I have been playing since the Aquila/marleybone update too!

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10117
bluba4 on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
Look, I've beaten a buckler with the robe as well. At lower levels, they think black fog and moo robe gives them an automatic victory, but it doesn't. I'm talking about top level players here.

I initially didn't mind the robe, but once I got past rank veteran things changed. The buckler is smart enough to train tough on their buckler companions, they have good pet grants, and many of them don't use black fog first turn. I started to realize just how much of a game changer the robe is.

I had a match today where I killed all three of my opponent's companions while only losing one. My character and my two companions were all over half health but my opponent was around half health.

Guess what? He won. How? He went hidden, summoned moo minions, purged shields, put armor on himself, then mojo storm plus mojo reaver plus I can't hit anything equals gg.

I did everything I could. My two remaining companions had second chance and turn the tide two. I used dispel magic to get rid of debuffs and moo minions charged everyone next turn again.

Tell me what to do when you're a hero level Buccaneer who doesn't have goro, nausica, or moo robe. I have gunnery but that won't destroy them. Moo minions have high strength so us buccs don't critical well for blade storm. We don't come with ANY AoE. All of our talents and powers rely on two things: strength and accuracy. When facing nine high strength minions that cut your accuracy in half, reckless frenzy is out the door, as is relentless.

If the ai fixes aren't working, ki needs to consider lowering moo troop to five minions instead of nine.

Let me know when you become a champion without being a swashbuckler, without crowns gear or companions, and without a moo robe.
Then you're losing to someone with superior gear ( for which they have farmed or used the SCC ) they also have a plan and know how to get the most out of their powers and gear; there is no shame in losing to someone with better gear and knowledge.
As you pointed out at the higher levels they know how to use their advantages. And they would have won without being a buckler.

Lieutenant
May 09, 2013
157
anecorbie on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
Then you're losing to someone with superior gear ( for which they have farmed or used the SCC ) they also have a plan and know how to get the most out of their powers and gear; there is no shame in losing to someone with better gear and knowledge.
As you pointed out at the higher levels they know how to use their advantages. And they would have won without being a buckler.
They weren't a buckler. That's the point. I'm trying to tell everyone that black fog is not overpowered. Swashbucklers are not overpowered. There are two things that are overpowered in the game:

1) Purge magic with hidden combo - Any class can use this, so again I am not complaining about bucklers. The reason why this is overpowered is shown in the fact that all classes are starting to use this. They give up two gear slots and take the time to farm bishop because this combo works exceptionally well against privateers and buccaneers who survive by shielding. The point of purge magic is that it's a two-edged sword; the one using it also loses all buffs. But when they still have three turns hidden to buff to their content, the downside to purge magic is lost.

2) Moo robe - 'nuff said, read my posts everywhere.

I'm tired of hearing the whole "farm more" argument. I do farm for my gear. My backpack is full of farmed items. I wouldn't use the moo robe even if I had it because I want to prove that it's possible to be a champion without it and without crowns companions like goro or nausica. It's one thing to tell me that I lost because I bought my stuff at the auction house. It's another thing when I have six vicious charges, four assassin's strikes, four valor's fortress, six revives, dispel, purge, etc. to choose from.

If you consider the moo robe to be "superior gear" on its own, doesn't that say something? If a single robe is better than all other items in all other circumstances, regardless of class and strategy, doesn't that make it overpowered?

And a final thought. There's no shame to losing a close match. but when you literally take out all their companions easily to create an obvious advantage for yourself an then lose that match? There's shame in that. I should have won, but I don't know what I could have done better.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10117
bluba4 on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
They weren't a buckler. That's the point. I'm trying to tell everyone that black fog is not overpowered. Swashbucklers are not overpowered. There are two things that are overpowered in the game:

1) Purge magic with hidden combo - Any class can use this, so again I am not complaining about bucklers. The reason why this is overpowered is shown in the fact that all classes are starting to use this. They give up two gear slots and take the time to farm bishop because this combo works exceptionally well against privateers and buccaneers who survive by shielding. The point of purge magic is that it's a two-edged sword; the one using it also loses all buffs. But when they still have three turns hidden to buff to their content, the downside to purge magic is lost.

2) Moo robe - 'nuff said, read my posts everywhere.

I'm tired of hearing the whole "farm more" argument. I do farm for my gear. My backpack is full of farmed items. I wouldn't use the moo robe even if I had it because I want to prove that it's possible to be a champion without it and without crowns companions like goro or nausica. It's one thing to tell me that I lost because I bought my stuff at the auction house. It's another thing when I have six vicious charges, four assassin's strikes, four valor's fortress, six revives, dispel, purge, etc. to choose from.

If you consider the moo robe to be "superior gear" on its own, doesn't that say something? If a single robe is better than all other items in all other circumstances, regardless of class and strategy, doesn't that make it overpowered?

And a final thought. There's no shame to losing a close match. but when you literally take out all their companions easily to create an obvious advantage for yourself an then lose that match? There's shame in that. I should have won, but I don't know what I could have done better.
I'm not telling you to "farm more", just that those who have farmed have a right to their gear. I, too, have the Moo Robes but I wish to win on my own merit ( and, yes, that includes Fog because it's part of my class powers ).
I also have the Sprocket Key but I'm not convinced that its necessary for me - I would give up some stat buffs and a super strike +3 on the off chance that an opponent will have it.
You're doing everything right and you're trying to over-come some bad stuff - that alone is a worthy goal.

Lieutenant
May 09, 2013
157
anecorbie on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
I'm not telling you to "farm more", just that those who have farmed have a right to their gear. I, too, have the Moo Robes but I wish to win on my own merit ( and, yes, that includes Fog because it's part of my class powers ).
I also have the Sprocket Key but I'm not convinced that its necessary for me - I would give up some stat buffs and a super strike +3 on the off chance that an opponent will have it.
You're doing everything right and you're trying to over-come some bad stuff - that alone is a worthy goal.
I actually kind of like the stats on the sprocket key, the accuracy helps . But for those with blade storm on their pets, super strike is hard to give up with that 11 dodge.

I will keep trying until I'm either a contender or back to a brawler .

Developer
bluba4 on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
They weren't a buckler. That's the point. I'm trying to tell everyone that black fog is not overpowered. Swashbucklers are not overpowered. There are two things that are overpowered in the game:

1) Purge magic with hidden combo - Any class can use this, so again I am not complaining about bucklers. The reason why this is overpowered is shown in the fact that all classes are starting to use this. They give up two gear slots and take the time to farm bishop because this combo works exceptionally well against privateers and buccaneers who survive by shielding. The point of purge magic is that it's a two-edged sword; the one using it also loses all buffs. But when they still have three turns hidden to buff to their content, the downside to purge magic is lost.

2) Moo robe - 'nuff said, read my posts everywhere.

I'm tired of hearing the whole "farm more" argument. I do farm for my gear. My backpack is full of farmed items. I wouldn't use the moo robe even if I had it because I want to prove that it's possible to be a champion without it and without crowns companions like goro or nausica. It's one thing to tell me that I lost because I bought my stuff at the auction house. It's another thing when I have six vicious charges, four assassin's strikes, four valor's fortress, six revives, dispel, purge, etc. to choose from.

If you consider the moo robe to be "superior gear" on its own, doesn't that say something? If a single robe is better than all other items in all other circumstances, regardless of class and strategy, doesn't that make it overpowered?

And a final thought. There's no shame to losing a close match. but when you literally take out all their companions easily to create an obvious advantage for yourself an then lose that match? There's shame in that. I should have won, but I don't know what I could have done better.
1) Purge magic with hidden combo. The point of purge magic is that it's a two-edged sword; the one using it also loses all buffs. But when they still have three turns hidden to buff to their content, the downside to purge magic is lost.

Agreed!

Admiral
Jun 02, 2013
1470
Ratbeard on Aug 25, 2015 wrote:
1) Purge magic with hidden combo. The point of purge magic is that it's a two-edged sword; the one using it also loses all buffs. But when they still have three turns hidden to buff to their content, the downside to purge magic is lost.

Agreed!
It's counterable if you set up the barricade and a companion with first strike 3 but we shouldn't have to be limited one strategy against one strategy because if you want to win its the same 2 strategies up in champion then