How KI jumped the gun with Old Scratch

2
AuthorMessage
Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Alex Hawkins on Sep 17, 2015 wrote:
It's weird, you would think it would take the buff from the base spell power (221), but it seems to be taking it from the total spell power.

For the 25% buff for example, since that's the only one working right now, you get 69 bonus Spell Power as a Witchdoctor. That is not 25% of 221, it is instead 25% of 276 which is what my Witchdoctor has when you account for base (221) + spooky 1 (11) + spooky 2 (11) + spooky 3 (22) and naturally spooky (11). So as of the moment the buff is taking into account your TOTAL spell power, and not just your base spell power.

This means that, while not 600 spell power, Witches can indeed reach 552 Spell Power (assuming you Krok as origin) with the 100% spell power bonus.

As for the "people not liking change" argument that I see forming, there is a difference between not adapting to change and something just being straight up broken/OP.

The Scorpions getting boosted to level 110+ with 190 base accuracy and 204 base dodge would have made them worse than the Warriors as they would rarely miss, dodge often and deal 250 dmg each with 1400+ health. They would have been extremely OP. However, as Ratbeard has already stated, the Scorpions shouldn't be getting boosted by Spell Power, so once KI fixes that then I agree that the change to Old Scratch is a good one.

People have no problem with recent changes like Grant Relentless/Burst pets, or First Strike 3 removing hidden, or Scent improvement, or the buff to Summer's Flame, or the new powers Emmet gets. Those are good healthy changes to the game that added more level of complexity and strategy. However, when something broken is introduced (100% Mojo buff + Scorpion Staff combo), you can't just say people are not adapting to change. Hard to adapt to something that would make the match so one-sided.
The buffs for old scratch could be just lets say 25% spell power for 10 rounds and 50% spell power for 5 rounds. Nothing more then that

First Mate
Dec 29, 2012
408
Alex Hawkins on Sep 17, 2015 wrote:
It's weird, you would think it would take the buff from the base spell power (221), but it seems to be taking it from the total spell power.

For the 25% buff for example, since that's the only one working right now, you get 69 bonus Spell Power as a Witchdoctor. That is not 25% of 221, it is instead 25% of 276 which is what my Witchdoctor has when you account for base (221) + spooky 1 (11) + spooky 2 (11) + spooky 3 (22) and naturally spooky (11). So as of the moment the buff is taking into account your TOTAL spell power, and not just your base spell power.

This means that, while not 600 spell power, Witches can indeed reach 552 Spell Power (assuming you Krok as origin) with the 100% spell power bonus.

As for the "people not liking change" argument that I see forming, there is a difference between not adapting to change and something just being straight up broken/OP.

The Scorpions getting boosted to level 110+ with 190 base accuracy and 204 base dodge would have made them worse than the Warriors as they would rarely miss, dodge often and deal 250 dmg each with 1400+ health. They would have been extremely OP. However, as Ratbeard has already stated, the Scorpions shouldn't be getting boosted by Spell Power, so once KI fixes that then I agree that the change to Old Scratch is a good one.

People have no problem with recent changes like Grant Relentless/Burst pets, or First Strike 3 removing hidden, or Scent improvement, or the buff to Summer's Flame, or the new powers Emmet gets. Those are good healthy changes to the game that added more level of complexity and strategy. However, when something broken is introduced (100% Mojo buff + Scorpion Staff combo), you can't just say people are not adapting to change. Hard to adapt to something that would make the match so one-sided.
Now that the scorpions issue has been addressed what exactly is broken or OP that you are referring to (the intended version, not the broken version)? Are the Hoplites running riot??? Even with the Spell Power increase (doubloon), the numbers being claimed by some (i.e. 2k Mournsong) is simply not happening (Mojo Reaver CAN reach 2k). Is this being tested against players/companions that have Magic Resistant gear or powers? Or is it we don't want to sacrifice other stats to accommodate for this change (because the weaker damage WD spells were doing before, we just battled through)?

If your still broken comment is referring to boosting total versus base...that might be the same bug as the boosting Will versus Spell Power. Even if it was boosting total, the "outrageous" DPS some are claiming is still lower than Bucs and Bucklers.

As for Hoplite summons (Stygian Chorus) at level 90, a single cast of Tempest of Torpedoes took them to half life (when they walked over the traps they died instantly). Oh, and if a WD is wasting their 3 rounds of max Spell Power on summons they are decreasing their overall DPS potential.

For PvP purposes...you do realize if you target Old Scratch with Forbiddence you have about a 60% chance to remove his entire line of Mojo Flow?

Just trying to understand what you are considering broken/OP with spell power at 100% when melee can achieve 500+ weapon damage for the majority of the match...and not just three rounds. Again, like I've stated before...I'm not advocating that Spell Power needs to have a 100% option, but I just don't see it as big as a problem as you do.

BTW, if you remember people did have issues with FS3 and scent as a solution to Black Fog....since it wasn't the change they wanted. Let me know if you want me to link the threads/posts.

First Mate
Dec 29, 2012
408
Masonpeev on Sep 17, 2015 wrote:
Then I sacrifice a fort and more farming -_- and in that sense I'd be setting for 1 class so in Ranked that wouldn't really work, but yes that can come out ok in practice
1.) Purge magic is useful for more than Mojo Flow...ever encountered a "castled" Privateer? So no, adding Purge Magic item to your PvP line up is not setting for one class.

2.) Having the right power/talent/gear against the right opponent is what Ranked PvP is all about. The best players know how to deal with all classes by setting the right mix (this includes WDs doing more damage). This is how classes dealt with Black Fog Bucklers during the "dark" days. Because while some won't admit it, the tools (except the change to some Rank 3 talents) have been in the game a looong time (and what Ratbeard kept referring to about counter-strategies vice counter-powers). So if you don't "set" for an increased damaging WD in addition to other possible opponents....deal with the results.

Gunner's Mate
May 02, 2009
250
Ratbeard on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
Summons that you cast yourself should be affected by Spell Power.

Summons that you cast from an item should only boost with WILL. (The base level of the summons in this case is defined by the item in question.)

Summon Scorpion Swarm should be so limited.
Question for you Ratbeard (and anyone else if they can answer this as well).

For those that don't know me I like to do high level summons tests on the Test Realm by going into a fight on a big Battleboard, hiring 4 lv.55 Privateer henchmen, boost up my Will to high amounts and then summon the minions to see how high I can get their levels to be. If I'm reading this right it seems that this strategy of mine will now only be possible with item summons and not normal summons like the Stygian Chorus for example.

If this is true would I need to rethink my game plan and bring in Old Scratch now to boost my Spell Power up high enough to get super high level summons or does my current strategy/game plan work just fine? Or will I need to use a combination of these to get high level summons out now? I hope the latter is not the case as I really don't want to rely on getting lucky with getting the Privateer henchmen Will powers within 3 turns of the highest Spell Power buff being used on me.

Thanks in advance.

Lieutenant
Oct 12, 2012
149
Duncan StormThief on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
They are not, at least Scorpion Swarm.

When under Ocuboros (Spell Power debuff), Scorpions are cast at level 35 instead of their normal level.

But thanks for the explanation on the difference between gear and ordinary summons.

I also want to thank you for the Champion weapon update, now I am way more protected. That weapon is truly worth the hard work I placed into reaching Champion with my WD.

Ravens Cry does say it gives Intuition and Counterspell when casted, but when I scroll over myself during plan phase it say Quick Adjust instead of Intuition. I am using Staffy weapon (Staff of Power for WD).

Sincerely,
Stubborn Duncan Freeman
From the matches i played against you i really wanted you to get champ (I'm Rodrigo) sadly i did not have enough time to play as much ranked as I would have liked and getting champ.

Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
382
Oran from Urz on Sep 18, 2015 wrote:
Now that the scorpions issue has been addressed what exactly is broken or OP that you are referring to (the intended version, not the broken version)? Are the Hoplites running riot??? Even with the Spell Power increase (doubloon), the numbers being claimed by some (i.e. 2k Mournsong) is simply not happening (Mojo Reaver CAN reach 2k). Is this being tested against players/companions that have Magic Resistant gear or powers? Or is it we don't want to sacrifice other stats to accommodate for this change (because the weaker damage WD spells were doing before, we just battled through)?

If your still broken comment is referring to boosting total versus base...that might be the same bug as the boosting Will versus Spell Power. Even if it was boosting total, the "outrageous" DPS some are claiming is still lower than Bucs and Bucklers.

As for Hoplite summons (Stygian Chorus) at level 90, a single cast of Tempest of Torpedoes took them to half life (when they walked over the traps they died instantly). Oh, and if a WD is wasting their 3 rounds of max Spell Power on summons they are decreasing their overall DPS potential.

For PvP purposes...you do realize if you target Old Scratch with Forbiddence you have about a 60% chance to remove his entire line of Mojo Flow?

Just trying to understand what you are considering broken/OP with spell power at 100% when melee can achieve 500+ weapon damage for the majority of the match...and not just three rounds. Again, like I've stated before...I'm not advocating that Spell Power needs to have a 100% option, but I just don't see it as big as a problem as you do.

BTW, if you remember people did have issues with FS3 and scent as a solution to Black Fog....since it wasn't the change they wanted. Let me know if you want me to link the threads/posts.
I'm with you here, except I think forbiddance only works on main pirate characters, not companions.

Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
161
Oran from Urz on Sep 18, 2015 wrote:
Now that the scorpions issue has been addressed what exactly is broken or OP that you are referring to (the intended version, not the broken version)? Are the Hoplites running riot??? Even with the Spell Power increase (doubloon), the numbers being claimed by some (i.e. 2k Mournsong) is simply not happening (Mojo Reaver CAN reach 2k). Is this being tested against players/companions that have Magic Resistant gear or powers? Or is it we don't want to sacrifice other stats to accommodate for this change (because the weaker damage WD spells were doing before, we just battled through)?

If your still broken comment is referring to boosting total versus base...that might be the same bug as the boosting Will versus Spell Power. Even if it was boosting total, the "outrageous" DPS some are claiming is still lower than Bucs and Bucklers.

As for Hoplite summons (Stygian Chorus) at level 90, a single cast of Tempest of Torpedoes took them to half life (when they walked over the traps they died instantly). Oh, and if a WD is wasting their 3 rounds of max Spell Power on summons they are decreasing their overall DPS potential.

For PvP purposes...you do realize if you target Old Scratch with Forbiddence you have about a 60% chance to remove his entire line of Mojo Flow?

Just trying to understand what you are considering broken/OP with spell power at 100% when melee can achieve 500+ weapon damage for the majority of the match...and not just three rounds. Again, like I've stated before...I'm not advocating that Spell Power needs to have a 100% option, but I just don't see it as big as a problem as you do.

BTW, if you remember people did have issues with FS3 and scent as a solution to Black Fog....since it wasn't the change they wanted. Let me know if you want me to link the threads/posts.
You can't target non-pirate units with forbiddence....

Also may I add on a musket this can be extremely overpowering as with the 25% alone a super hail of cannonballs deal 2k damage...

Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
161
The real problem is how do you deal with a turn 1 increase 100% spooky, drop a Big Guns on the enemy and take half there health out then toss up on your pirate a 2.6k absorb. Sorry even a Buck full chain will BARELY break it.

First Mate
Dec 29, 2012
408
TechnomagePvP on Sep 20, 2015 wrote:
You can't target non-pirate units with forbiddence....

Also may I add on a musket this can be extremely overpowering as with the 25% alone a super hail of cannonballs deal 2k damage...
Thanks for the clarification....I was positive I targeted a companion before....guess not.

I'm still wondering why Evil Eye isn't more widely available to non-WDs.

First Mate
Dec 29, 2012
408
TechnomagePvP on Sep 20, 2015 wrote:
The real problem is how do you deal with a turn 1 increase 100% spooky, drop a Big Guns on the enemy and take half there health out then toss up on your pirate a 2.6k absorb. Sorry even a Buck full chain will BARELY break it.
LOL, anti-Fog measure #5.


Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
382
TechnomagePvP on Sep 20, 2015 wrote:
The real problem is how do you deal with a turn 1 increase 100% spooky, drop a Big Guns on the enemy and take half there health out then toss up on your pirate a 2.6k absorb. Sorry even a Buck full chain will BARELY break it.
Absorb isnt even that OP, I mean... if swash dont break it, they remain hidden, so yeah...

Developer
TechnomagePvP on Sep 20, 2015 wrote:
The real problem is how do you deal with a turn 1 increase 100% spooky, drop a Big Guns on the enemy and take half there health out then toss up on your pirate a 2.6k absorb. Sorry even a Buck full chain will BARELY break it.
So IF they put Old Scratch on their team, then for 2 turns they get to be almost as effective as your Buccaneer gets to be every turn of the match?

When you put it like that...

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
TechnomagePvP on Sep 20, 2015 wrote:
The real problem is how do you deal with a turn 1 increase 100% spooky, drop a Big Guns on the enemy and take half there health out then toss up on your pirate a 2.6k absorb. Sorry even a Buck full chain will BARELY break it.
People really underestimate musketeer and Privateer imo. They can be very destructive is played correctly and when old scratch's buff is fixed they can deal allot of damage and then take very little. A privateer can big guns and do like 700 damage per person if not more, and musketeers can make their bombs do an insane amount of damage along with their sniper shots which by the way, base off of spell power AND are a guaranteed super hit.

Lieutenant
Aug 29, 2008
146
Masonpeev on Sep 21, 2015 wrote:
People really underestimate musketeer and Privateer imo. They can be very destructive is played correctly and when old scratch's buff is fixed they can deal allot of damage and then take very little. A privateer can big guns and do like 700 damage per person if not more, and musketeers can make their bombs do an insane amount of damage along with their sniper shots which by the way, base off of spell power AND are a guaranteed super hit.
Sadly the reason why people underestimate both of these classes is because there are not many good Privateers and Musketeers players high up in the ranks. So people don't get to see how scary a well played Privy (specially now with Scratch) and a well played Musket can be.

I agree fully with Technomage here on the power of the Spell Power buff, and is a bit worrisome that not many people are seeing it. Going to have the easiest ride up to Champion with my Privateer this season. Even with the 25% Spell Power buff I am already have no trouble at all beating Swashbucklers and Buccaneers. Musket get eaten alive by Nausica and are more vulnerable to bombs due to not wanting to split, and Witches are just Witches: in a horrible state at the moment.

Admiral
Jul 07, 2013
1124
Ratbeard on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
Summons that you cast yourself should be affected by Spell Power.

Summons that you cast from an item should only boost with WILL. (The base level of the summons in this case is defined by the item in question.)

Summon Scorpion Swarm should be so limited.
lol Interesting....Let's work with the new changes for a while....... there is always potential......

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
382
Alex Hawkins on Sep 21, 2015 wrote:
Sadly the reason why people underestimate both of these classes is because there are not many good Privateers and Musketeers players high up in the ranks. So people don't get to see how scary a well played Privy (specially now with Scratch) and a well played Musket can be.

I agree fully with Technomage here on the power of the Spell Power buff, and is a bit worrisome that not many people are seeing it. Going to have the easiest ride up to Champion with my Privateer this season. Even with the 25% Spell Power buff I am already have no trouble at all beating Swashbucklers and Buccaneers. Musket get eaten alive by Nausica and are more vulnerable to bombs due to not wanting to split, and Witches are just Witches: in a horrible state at the moment.
I'd be happy to read your post on central when you do, much like you did with buccaneer :)

To be honest I'm a bit skeptical.

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Ratbeard on Sep 21, 2015 wrote:
So IF they put Old Scratch on their team, then for 2 turns they get to be almost as effective as your Buccaneer gets to be every turn of the match?

When you put it like that...
Its not being almost as effective for 2 turns its being way more effective for 2 turns. absorbs doing 2.2k mournsongs ripping off 2k health easily and mojo storms easily doing 1.5k FYI that's more effective then a buccaneer

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Silver Angel on Sep 22, 2015 wrote:
I'd be happy to read your post on central when you do, much like you did with buccaneer :)

To be honest I'm a bit skeptical.
Top Privateers can be just as powerful as a Buccaneer easily if played right

Lieutenant
Aug 29, 2008
146
Silver Angel on Sep 22, 2015 wrote:
I'd be happy to read your post on central when you do, much like you did with buccaneer :)

To be honest I'm a bit skeptical.
Sadly it won't be as impressive as my 29-0 on Buck

Lost my first match on Privy last night vs a Swashbuckler, so currently 11-1. Harry beat me pretty darn good, with a combination of him playing amazing and me playing really bad (still can't believe I didn't notice that Nausica had a fort...).

Either way, so far, aside from Harry, it hasn't been too challenging. As a Privy, I can still afford to use the Terror-Cotta + Scorpion Staff combo. With the 25% scratch buff, my heals are doing 700-800 base damage plus overtime. My VAs are about 1650 armor. Once the 100% buff is fixed, even if its only 2 turns, that is one turn I can drop a 2600 VA on someone and another turn that I can do something else depending on the situation.

Ironic enough, I seem to be struggling more on my Swashbuckler at the moment (11-4, losing to other Swashbucklers) than I am on my Privy. I do still think the spell power buff, once fixed, will be more powerful than KI and other players expect it to be, considering how much help the 25% buff is already.

Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
826
Alex Hawkins on Sep 23, 2015 wrote:
Sadly it won't be as impressive as my 29-0 on Buck

Lost my first match on Privy last night vs a Swashbuckler, so currently 11-1. Harry beat me pretty darn good, with a combination of him playing amazing and me playing really bad (still can't believe I didn't notice that Nausica had a fort...).

Either way, so far, aside from Harry, it hasn't been too challenging. As a Privy, I can still afford to use the Terror-Cotta + Scorpion Staff combo. With the 25% scratch buff, my heals are doing 700-800 base damage plus overtime. My VAs are about 1650 armor. Once the 100% buff is fixed, even if its only 2 turns, that is one turn I can drop a 2600 VA on someone and another turn that I can do something else depending on the situation.

Ironic enough, I seem to be struggling more on my Swashbuckler at the moment (11-4, losing to other Swashbucklers) than I am on my Privy. I do still think the spell power buff, once fixed, will be more powerful than KI and other players expect it to be, considering how much help the 25% buff is already.
my heals seem to like to get low healing rolls when i have the mojo buff on i barely break 600 with it and i usually get 600 without it

Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
826
Masonpeev on Sep 23, 2015 wrote:
Its not being almost as effective for 2 turns its being way more effective for 2 turns. absorbs doing 2.2k mournsongs ripping off 2k health easily and mojo storms easily doing 1.5k FYI that's more effective then a buccaneer
*remembers all the times i went down from a full va and 3k health to dead in one round from a buck pirate*

Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
382
Really now... as I said VA is useless vs swash because they remain hidden even if they take 2K damage out of 2.6k VA absorb. How is that fair?

And 2 turns is nothing, swash do outrageous damage whenever they want, and privy cant chain anywhere close to buccaneers.

Again, Old Scratch is for everyone so you can use him too. VA isnt privy only, anyone can get it, you can even get revives. So really, I fail to see how privy are OP due to this update.

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