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How KI jumped the gun with Old Scratch

1
AuthorMessage
Lieutenant
Aug 29, 2008
146
Sometimes it feels like the KI developers and us players are not playing the same game. Not sure who thought that giving Old Scratch a +100% Spell Power buff would be a good idea, but whoever it was should not be allowed to balance PvP.

I will give you a few reasons why a +100% Spell Power bonus is absolutely broken for both Witchdoctors and Privateers. At 100% Spell Power, you get an additional +276 Spell Power for Witchdoctor and a little bit less for Privateers. Why is doubling your Spell Power such a broken mechanic? Well let me tell you why..

Scorpions Staff
Summons in general go off based on Spell Power. What level they are, what stats they start out with, health, damage, etc. All summons, except for the Moo Manchu Warriors, work this way.

What does this mean for the Scorpion Staff?

Well, at about 530 Spell Power you summon 9 scorpions at Level 110. These Scorpions start off with about 1350 health. They have base 190 Accuracy and 204 Dodge, more than double of what some companions carry. Their base damage is about 250 when at this high level. Add in the beastmaster banner and your scorpions will be doing 600+ damage EACH per turn. Their high accuracy will stop them from missing against almost anyone, but even if 5 of them were to miss, that is still 2400 damage from the other 4 scorpions.

The 100% Spell Power bonus might only last 2 turns, but these scorpions that you summon will be there for a very long time with their high health and dodge. Add a zeal into it for more scorpion fun.

"Strategy" - Turn 1 Scratch 100% buff, Turn 2 or 3 Summon Scorpions

Big Guns
Unlike Mojo Storm and other Witch powers that are blocked by line of sight, Big Guns is infinite and by passes any obstacles. The ratio of Big Guns to your Spell Power is about x1.40. At 530 spell power, this is a 750 damage infinite range AoE nuke without accounting for possible critical. Just two of these dropped on top of an unit is about half their health.

Yes, the AoE part can be easily avoided by spreading out your companions, but honestly with this amount of damage even dropping it on a single target is worth it. The flames left around them will also do increased damage due to the higher spell power. The Scratch 100% buff is enough to use 1 or 2 of these (even though I recommend spending 1 turn summoning Scorpions instead).

...

Valor's Armor, Musket Bombs, Revive, Mojo Storm, Mournsongs, Reaver, Summer's Flames, etc. I could go on and on listing powers that will now be problematic due to this buff, but I think you guys get the point.

If the summer season was the "Moo Robe Season", then Fall season will be the "Old Scratch Season".

Spell Power does not work the same way Weapon Power or other stats work. Doubling Spell Power just like that creates very broken things. I seriously feel KI is not testing these changes before pushing them through.

Good luck to any class that is not a Witch or Privy once the Old Scratch buff is fixed, as it is currently boosting Will.

Lieutenant
Feb 02, 2013
119
Alex Hawkins on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
Sometimes it feels like the KI developers and us players are not playing the same game. Not sure who thought that giving Old Scratch a +100% Spell Power buff would be a good idea, but whoever it was should not be allowed to balance PvP.

I will give you a few reasons why a +100% Spell Power bonus is absolutely broken for both Witchdoctors and Privateers. At 100% Spell Power, you get an additional +276 Spell Power for Witchdoctor and a little bit less for Privateers. Why is doubling your Spell Power such a broken mechanic? Well let me tell you why..

Scorpions Staff
Summons in general go off based on Spell Power. What level they are, what stats they start out with, health, damage, etc. All summons, except for the Moo Manchu Warriors, work this way.

What does this mean for the Scorpion Staff?

Well, at about 530 Spell Power you summon 9 scorpions at Level 110. These Scorpions start off with about 1350 health. They have base 190 Accuracy and 204 Dodge, more than double of what some companions carry. Their base damage is about 250 when at this high level. Add in the beastmaster banner and your scorpions will be doing 600+ damage EACH per turn. Their high accuracy will stop them from missing against almost anyone, but even if 5 of them were to miss, that is still 2400 damage from the other 4 scorpions.

The 100% Spell Power bonus might only last 2 turns, but these scorpions that you summon will be there for a very long time with their high health and dodge. Add a zeal into it for more scorpion fun.

"Strategy" - Turn 1 Scratch 100% buff, Turn 2 or 3 Summon Scorpions

Big Guns
Unlike Mojo Storm and other Witch powers that are blocked by line of sight, Big Guns is infinite and by passes any obstacles. The ratio of Big Guns to your Spell Power is about x1.40. At 530 spell power, this is a 750 damage infinite range AoE nuke without accounting for possible critical. Just two of these dropped on top of an unit is about half their health.

Yes, the AoE part can be easily avoided by spreading out your companions, but honestly with this amount of damage even dropping it on a single target is worth it. The flames left around them will also do increased damage due to the higher spell power. The Scratch 100% buff is enough to use 1 or 2 of these (even though I recommend spending 1 turn summoning Scorpions instead).

...

Valor's Armor, Musket Bombs, Revive, Mojo Storm, Mournsongs, Reaver, Summer's Flames, etc. I could go on and on listing powers that will now be problematic due to this buff, but I think you guys get the point.

If the summer season was the "Moo Robe Season", then Fall season will be the "Old Scratch Season".

Spell Power does not work the same way Weapon Power or other stats work. Doubling Spell Power just like that creates very broken things. I seriously feel KI is not testing these changes before pushing them through.

Good luck to any class that is not a Witch or Privy once the Old Scratch buff is fixed, as it is currently boosting Will.
If I recall correctly, Summons are based on will, not spell power. I guess I would have to look into it myself to confirm before I jump the gun against you on this point.

Besides what you said above, it also effects Witch Hunter, as the damage is based on spell power. Were we not complaining about WDs and Privys not having enough tools? This is kind of what we asked for in general, a buff to WDs and a buff to Privy(ish). A buckler's buff can stack with their powers, so I don't really see why Scratchy can't have a good buff to go along a WDs/Privy's powers. For WDs and maybe Privy it is a game changer, but for everyone else, it is just another option.

I am not sure on whether to nerf it or not, because generally, Old Scratch was trash, and the 100% has limited timing, like you said I am not sure on the minions. Since WDs can basically be one turned and buffs do not stack in PvP. I do agree, this and va is really good for Pvp, however that is only IF they decide to bring Old scratch(Unless you are WD or Privy, that one will still basically be a no). The main general ones is basically va and summer's flames/blood flames and the only general ones, the rest are class specific.

-Obviously they did not test this(or at least very well), as staffy users can now use raven's cry in order to get Counterspell and .... Quick Adjust.

Community Leader
Fortunately, they didn't make a +100% Spell Power ability. The cards give 100% and 50% Will, as they state. Remind me, are these buffs still not stacking in PvP?

Swordroll's Blog
https://www.swordroll.com/
Developer
Stormy Sam Templet... on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
If I recall correctly, Summons are based on will, not spell power. I guess I would have to look into it myself to confirm before I jump the gun against you on this point.

Besides what you said above, it also effects Witch Hunter, as the damage is based on spell power. Were we not complaining about WDs and Privys not having enough tools? This is kind of what we asked for in general, a buff to WDs and a buff to Privy(ish). A buckler's buff can stack with their powers, so I don't really see why Scratchy can't have a good buff to go along a WDs/Privy's powers. For WDs and maybe Privy it is a game changer, but for everyone else, it is just another option.

I am not sure on whether to nerf it or not, because generally, Old Scratch was trash, and the 100% has limited timing, like you said I am not sure on the minions. Since WDs can basically be one turned and buffs do not stack in PvP. I do agree, this and va is really good for Pvp, however that is only IF they decide to bring Old scratch(Unless you are WD or Privy, that one will still basically be a no). The main general ones is basically va and summer's flames/blood flames and the only general ones, the rest are class specific.

-Obviously they did not test this(or at least very well), as staffy users can now use raven's cry in order to get Counterspell and .... Quick Adjust.
-Obviously they did not test this(or at least very well), as staffy users can now use raven's cry in order to get Counterspell and .... Quick Adjust.

What weapon do you have equipped?

My data shows you should be getting Counterspell and Intuition.

Lieutenant
Nov 21, 2010
103
Alex Hawkins on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
Sometimes it feels like the KI developers and us players are not playing the same game. Not sure who thought that giving Old Scratch a +100% Spell Power buff would be a good idea, but whoever it was should not be allowed to balance PvP.

I will give you a few reasons why a +100% Spell Power bonus is absolutely broken for both Witchdoctors and Privateers. At 100% Spell Power, you get an additional +276 Spell Power for Witchdoctor and a little bit less for Privateers. Why is doubling your Spell Power such a broken mechanic? Well let me tell you why..

Scorpions Staff
Summons in general go off based on Spell Power. What level they are, what stats they start out with, health, damage, etc. All summons, except for the Moo Manchu Warriors, work this way.

What does this mean for the Scorpion Staff?

Well, at about 530 Spell Power you summon 9 scorpions at Level 110. These Scorpions start off with about 1350 health. They have base 190 Accuracy and 204 Dodge, more than double of what some companions carry. Their base damage is about 250 when at this high level. Add in the beastmaster banner and your scorpions will be doing 600+ damage EACH per turn. Their high accuracy will stop them from missing against almost anyone, but even if 5 of them were to miss, that is still 2400 damage from the other 4 scorpions.

The 100% Spell Power bonus might only last 2 turns, but these scorpions that you summon will be there for a very long time with their high health and dodge. Add a zeal into it for more scorpion fun.

"Strategy" - Turn 1 Scratch 100% buff, Turn 2 or 3 Summon Scorpions

Big Guns
Unlike Mojo Storm and other Witch powers that are blocked by line of sight, Big Guns is infinite and by passes any obstacles. The ratio of Big Guns to your Spell Power is about x1.40. At 530 spell power, this is a 750 damage infinite range AoE nuke without accounting for possible critical. Just two of these dropped on top of an unit is about half their health.

Yes, the AoE part can be easily avoided by spreading out your companions, but honestly with this amount of damage even dropping it on a single target is worth it. The flames left around them will also do increased damage due to the higher spell power. The Scratch 100% buff is enough to use 1 or 2 of these (even though I recommend spending 1 turn summoning Scorpions instead).

...

Valor's Armor, Musket Bombs, Revive, Mojo Storm, Mournsongs, Reaver, Summer's Flames, etc. I could go on and on listing powers that will now be problematic due to this buff, but I think you guys get the point.

If the summer season was the "Moo Robe Season", then Fall season will be the "Old Scratch Season".

Spell Power does not work the same way Weapon Power or other stats work. Doubling Spell Power just like that creates very broken things. I seriously feel KI is not testing these changes before pushing them through.

Good luck to any class that is not a Witch or Privy once the Old Scratch buff is fixed, as it is currently boosting Will.
Old Scratch has only 25% boost to Spell Power, other buffs are towards Will, it is not the same. I think that this is by design. Maybe Ratbeard can shad some light?

@Sam

Level of summons are affected by Spell Power. As far as I know only Terrors are exception to this rule.

Developer
Duncan StormThief on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
Old Scratch has only 25% boost to Spell Power, other buffs are towards Will, it is not the same. I think that this is by design. Maybe Ratbeard can shad some light?

@Sam

Level of summons are affected by Spell Power. As far as I know only Terrors are exception to this rule.
Summons that you cast yourself should be affected by Spell Power.

Summons that you cast from an item should only boost with WILL. (The base level of the summons in this case is defined by the item in question.)

Summon Scorpion Swarm should be so limited.

First Mate
Dec 29, 2012
422
I believe this is bug. I assume it is suppose to boost spell power and spell power only. Two reasons:

1.) We already have a power line that boosts Will and does it well (Privateers Speech line). I assume that since this power was given to Old Scratch (available to all) it was intended to boost spell power for all classes and their teams.

2.) Ratbeard specifically made a comment that he would look into boosting Spell Power...not Will, since Spell Power can only be boosted via gear (all other stats can be boosted by both gear and powers/talents).

https://www.pirate101.com/forum/the-spar-chamber/witchdoctor-epics-8ad6a4194ed8e54d014f0489ab4e4f97/8ad6a4174f077343014f1d409c95690c?fromSearchResult=true#8ad6a4174f077343014f1d409c95690c

If this spell is suppose to boost Will:

1.) While Old Scratch got a major update, this same update decreases the desirability of having Grimtooth on your team, since the mojo flows do not stack with the speech line. His only "unique" feature is Purge Magic.

2.) Will affects Charms. So while it may not be a problem now with Charm banned from PvP, if this is truly suppose to boost Will....well whenever Charm is fixed for PvP this power will be used a lot. (i.e. the class that receives Charm naturally, now receives the boost naturally, as well. This is like Bucs getting a 100% accuracy buff, or companion, to compliment their Reckless Frenzy).

Lieutenant
Nov 21, 2010
103
Ratbeard on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
Summons that you cast yourself should be affected by Spell Power.

Summons that you cast from an item should only boost with WILL. (The base level of the summons in this case is defined by the item in question.)

Summon Scorpion Swarm should be so limited.
They are not, at least Scorpion Swarm.

When under Ocuboros (Spell Power debuff), Scorpions are cast at level 35 instead of their normal level.

But thanks for the explanation on the difference between gear and ordinary summons.

I also want to thank you for the Champion weapon update, now I am way more protected. That weapon is truly worth the hard work I placed into reaching Champion with my WD.

Ravens Cry does say it gives Intuition and Counterspell when casted, but when I scroll over myself during plan phase it say Quick Adjust instead of Intuition. I am using Staffy weapon (Staff of Power for WD).

Sincerely,
Stubborn Duncan Freeman

First Mate
Dec 29, 2012
422
Stormy Sam Templet... on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
If I recall correctly, Summons are based on will, not spell power. I guess I would have to look into it myself to confirm before I jump the gun against you on this point.

Besides what you said above, it also effects Witch Hunter, as the damage is based on spell power. Were we not complaining about WDs and Privys not having enough tools? This is kind of what we asked for in general, a buff to WDs and a buff to Privy(ish). A buckler's buff can stack with their powers, so I don't really see why Scratchy can't have a good buff to go along a WDs/Privy's powers. For WDs and maybe Privy it is a game changer, but for everyone else, it is just another option.

I am not sure on whether to nerf it or not, because generally, Old Scratch was trash, and the 100% has limited timing, like you said I am not sure on the minions. Since WDs can basically be one turned and buffs do not stack in PvP. I do agree, this and va is really good for Pvp, however that is only IF they decide to bring Old scratch(Unless you are WD or Privy, that one will still basically be a no). The main general ones is basically va and summer's flames/blood flames and the only general ones, the rest are class specific.

-Obviously they did not test this(or at least very well), as staffy users can now use raven's cry in order to get Counterspell and .... Quick Adjust.
IMO, that is the problem with the spell line in current form. These new powers don't elevate Old Scratch in my rotation as a WD. If I need 100% increase to Will, I cast Juju. If Old Scratch increased Spell Power on all ranks of this line....well that is different.

Juju and Mojo Flow do not stack.

Increasing Spell Power is not as bad as Alex makes it sound. Every class (except Bucs) can take advantage of increasing Spell Power via Old Scratch's new power. None of the classes need it to boost Will. (WDs have Mojo and Privs have Speech, Musks and Swashes need Spell Power).

The use (in current form) I see, is if you are a Buc, Musk or Swash and are running primarily Will companions, then this power is extremely helpful, or if you are using it in a purely defensive form (but then again, there are numerous gear items that provide 100% boost to Will).

First Mate
Dec 29, 2012
422
Ratbeard on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
-Obviously they did not test this(or at least very well), as staffy users can now use raven's cry in order to get Counterspell and .... Quick Adjust.

What weapon do you have equipped?

My data shows you should be getting Counterspell and Intuition.
Crow's Song is granting Intuition to my WD and all companions with a staff.

Raven's Cry is granting Counterspell and Intuition to my WD and all companions with a staff.

Lieutenant
Aug 29, 2008
146
Stormy Sam Templet... on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
If I recall correctly, Summons are based on will, not spell power. I guess I would have to look into it myself to confirm before I jump the gun against you on this point.

Besides what you said above, it also effects Witch Hunter, as the damage is based on spell power. Were we not complaining about WDs and Privys not having enough tools? This is kind of what we asked for in general, a buff to WDs and a buff to Privy(ish). A buckler's buff can stack with their powers, so I don't really see why Scratchy can't have a good buff to go along a WDs/Privy's powers. For WDs and maybe Privy it is a game changer, but for everyone else, it is just another option.

I am not sure on whether to nerf it or not, because generally, Old Scratch was trash, and the 100% has limited timing, like you said I am not sure on the minions. Since WDs can basically be one turned and buffs do not stack in PvP. I do agree, this and va is really good for Pvp, however that is only IF they decide to bring Old scratch(Unless you are WD or Privy, that one will still basically be a no). The main general ones is basically va and summer's flames/blood flames and the only general ones, the rest are class specific.

-Obviously they did not test this(or at least very well), as staffy users can now use raven's cry in order to get Counterspell and .... Quick Adjust.
@Stormy Sam I can confirm for you that the Scorpions will boost based off your Spell Power. Since currently the 100% Spell Power buff is bugged and giving Will instead, you can still try it with just the 25% Spell Power buff which will boost them up to around level 73 or so.

There would be absolutely no reason NOT to bring Old Scratch if you are a Witch and Privy. As someone who tested how abusive the Spell Power doubloon was in ranked PvP in the test realm, I can spot from miles away how this 100% buff will be a problem.

@Duncan I believe that he is supposed to have the 50% and 100% spell power buffs too, as that is what the update notes say and what the animation when you use the card itself says. Try to use the card and see it for yourself, it will show an animation saying an increase of Spell Power while boosting Will.

Before fixing the bug and ruining the start of next season though, I hope KI reconsiders. A 25% buff alone is enough to make Old Scratch pretty darn good considering this buff lasts for 10 turns. The others are just pushing the power of Privy and Witchdoctor over the top.

@Ratbeard, I wouldn't be posting here if I had not tested any of this myself. As soon as the game back up on, I jumped in with Technomage and tested buffs with the Scorpions.

While the 100% buff is currently bugged, we used a Spell Power doubloon instead to test how high the Scorpions would reach. At 25% spell power buff, most Witches get 69 spell power. At 100% that would be around 276. We used a +253 Spell Power doubloon to simulate how it would look like once the 100% buff is fixed, and that is how you end up with 9 level 110 Scorpions. I also separately tested the actual 25% boost that currently works with the scorpions, to make sure it worked the same way and it does (boosting them up to about level 73).

If the Scorpions are not meant to get boosted from Spell Power, then that is not how it is currently working. Anyone can test this out in the arena right now.

Developer
Duncan StormThief on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
They are not, at least Scorpion Swarm.

When under Ocuboros (Spell Power debuff), Scorpions are cast at level 35 instead of their normal level.

But thanks for the explanation on the difference between gear and ordinary summons.

I also want to thank you for the Champion weapon update, now I am way more protected. That weapon is truly worth the hard work I placed into reaching Champion with my WD.

Ravens Cry does say it gives Intuition and Counterspell when casted, but when I scroll over myself during plan phase it say Quick Adjust instead of Intuition. I am using Staffy weapon (Staff of Power for WD).

Sincerely,
Stubborn Duncan Freeman
Read "should be" as "will be."

Thanks for the info on Quick Adjust. That should help me track it down.

First Mate
Dec 29, 2012
422
Alex Hawkins on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
@Stormy Sam I can confirm for you that the Scorpions will boost based off your Spell Power. Since currently the 100% Spell Power buff is bugged and giving Will instead, you can still try it with just the 25% Spell Power buff which will boost them up to around level 73 or so.

There would be absolutely no reason NOT to bring Old Scratch if you are a Witch and Privy. As someone who tested how abusive the Spell Power doubloon was in ranked PvP in the test realm, I can spot from miles away how this 100% buff will be a problem.

@Duncan I believe that he is supposed to have the 50% and 100% spell power buffs too, as that is what the update notes say and what the animation when you use the card itself says. Try to use the card and see it for yourself, it will show an animation saying an increase of Spell Power while boosting Will.

Before fixing the bug and ruining the start of next season though, I hope KI reconsiders. A 25% buff alone is enough to make Old Scratch pretty darn good considering this buff lasts for 10 turns. The others are just pushing the power of Privy and Witchdoctor over the top.

@Ratbeard, I wouldn't be posting here if I had not tested any of this myself. As soon as the game back up on, I jumped in with Technomage and tested buffs with the Scorpions.

While the 100% buff is currently bugged, we used a Spell Power doubloon instead to test how high the Scorpions would reach. At 25% spell power buff, most Witches get 69 spell power. At 100% that would be around 276. We used a +253 Spell Power doubloon to simulate how it would look like once the 100% buff is fixed, and that is how you end up with 9 level 110 Scorpions. I also separately tested the actual 25% boost that currently works with the scorpions, to make sure it worked the same way and it does (boosting them up to about level 73).

If the Scorpions are not meant to get boosted from Spell Power, then that is not how it is currently working. Anyone can test this out in the arena right now.
Alex, the issue you are describing is the same as Moo Robes....too many OP "summons" running around. The fix for Moo Robe was to decrease the amount of summons....sounds like the same is needed here.

I have to assume the whole reason this power was implemented was to increase Spell Power (since the major complaints were the lack of power for WDs and Privs). If boosting Will is the intended purpose of this power, we still have a lack of Spell Power for WDs at higher levels.

Yes, gunnery/artillery will probably boost to 700ish damage. However:

1.) Your enemy is typically not tightly grouped after round two.
2.) Fires persist on the enemy side (unlike Musk traps)
3.) A Priv choosing to use buffed gunnery/artillery is deliberately not taking other actions (like buffing or healing). It is a trade off.
4.) Maybe players will take Magic Resistant gear seriously now.

Now, I'm not advocating that 100% Spell Power is the appropriate boost, but in my opinion, the line should be boosting Spell Power throughout (at either increasing amounts or longer durations). Even if it was left at 100%, almost all classes except Bucs can take advantage of this companion if it boosts Spell Power throughout (so it doesn't make WDs or Privs exclusively OP....it boosts everyone except Bucs).

First Mate
Dec 29, 2012
422
Duncan StormThief on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
They are not, at least Scorpion Swarm.

When under Ocuboros (Spell Power debuff), Scorpions are cast at level 35 instead of their normal level.

But thanks for the explanation on the difference between gear and ordinary summons.

I also want to thank you for the Champion weapon update, now I am way more protected. That weapon is truly worth the hard work I placed into reaching Champion with my WD.

Ravens Cry does say it gives Intuition and Counterspell when casted, but when I scroll over myself during plan phase it say Quick Adjust instead of Intuition. I am using Staffy weapon (Staff of Power for WD).

Sincerely,
Stubborn Duncan Freeman
Also, Duncan brings up a good point I failed to address in my previous posts.

As it stands now, players have the tools to decrease Spell Power by 50%. Even with Old Scratch's power as it stands now, the best Spell Power could be boosted to under those conditions is -25% (for at least five rounds, possibly eight!). Even if Old Scratch's power was changed to 100% Spell Power boost, players can right now debuff that power to 50%.

Now, understand you cannot Eye or Purge Magic a team full of WDs, but you can at least disable the pirate themselves.

Bosun
May 10, 2010
396
Wait, I am pretty sure all classes get Old Scratch as a companion. I am also pretty sure that most people were putting privateers and witchdoctors last on the PVP class ratings.

Scratch was pretty irrelevant in the companion rankings, this will finally make him somewhat relevant, which is what I have been waiting for. I still think he should have been given a spell upgrade, but his boosts should at least give his summon an upgrade.

I think KI did an excellent job with this upgrade to old scratch. but then, you always have people that don't like change, it goes with the territory.

Lieutenant
Feb 02, 2013
119
Ratbeard on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
-Obviously they did not test this(or at least very well), as staffy users can now use raven's cry in order to get Counterspell and .... Quick Adjust.

What weapon do you have equipped?

My data shows you should be getting Counterspell and Intuition.
I had the Nefarious Staff equipped on my WD. I also got the same results when putting it on my other staffy companions. I double checked as I am typing this in now, and I am still getting Quick Adjust instead of intuition. Counter spell however is functioning correctly. It also displays the correct talents correctly with the battle animation, however when It did not activate when it should have, I got concerned. When I looked at my talents, I had Quick Adjust instead of Intuition. This is not gear specific, I tested Mormo's Crow Song on himself and he too got Quick Adjust.

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Alex Hawkins on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
Sometimes it feels like the KI developers and us players are not playing the same game. Not sure who thought that giving Old Scratch a +100% Spell Power buff would be a good idea, but whoever it was should not be allowed to balance PvP.

I will give you a few reasons why a +100% Spell Power bonus is absolutely broken for both Witchdoctors and Privateers. At 100% Spell Power, you get an additional +276 Spell Power for Witchdoctor and a little bit less for Privateers. Why is doubling your Spell Power such a broken mechanic? Well let me tell you why..

Scorpions Staff
Summons in general go off based on Spell Power. What level they are, what stats they start out with, health, damage, etc. All summons, except for the Moo Manchu Warriors, work this way.

What does this mean for the Scorpion Staff?

Well, at about 530 Spell Power you summon 9 scorpions at Level 110. These Scorpions start off with about 1350 health. They have base 190 Accuracy and 204 Dodge, more than double of what some companions carry. Their base damage is about 250 when at this high level. Add in the beastmaster banner and your scorpions will be doing 600+ damage EACH per turn. Their high accuracy will stop them from missing against almost anyone, but even if 5 of them were to miss, that is still 2400 damage from the other 4 scorpions.

The 100% Spell Power bonus might only last 2 turns, but these scorpions that you summon will be there for a very long time with their high health and dodge. Add a zeal into it for more scorpion fun.

"Strategy" - Turn 1 Scratch 100% buff, Turn 2 or 3 Summon Scorpions

Big Guns
Unlike Mojo Storm and other Witch powers that are blocked by line of sight, Big Guns is infinite and by passes any obstacles. The ratio of Big Guns to your Spell Power is about x1.40. At 530 spell power, this is a 750 damage infinite range AoE nuke without accounting for possible critical. Just two of these dropped on top of an unit is about half their health.

Yes, the AoE part can be easily avoided by spreading out your companions, but honestly with this amount of damage even dropping it on a single target is worth it. The flames left around them will also do increased damage due to the higher spell power. The Scratch 100% buff is enough to use 1 or 2 of these (even though I recommend spending 1 turn summoning Scorpions instead).

...

Valor's Armor, Musket Bombs, Revive, Mojo Storm, Mournsongs, Reaver, Summer's Flames, etc. I could go on and on listing powers that will now be problematic due to this buff, but I think you guys get the point.

If the summer season was the "Moo Robe Season", then Fall season will be the "Old Scratch Season".

Spell Power does not work the same way Weapon Power or other stats work. Doubling Spell Power just like that creates very broken things. I seriously feel KI is not testing these changes before pushing them through.

Good luck to any class that is not a Witch or Privy once the Old Scratch buff is fixed, as it is currently boosting Will.
Agreed entirely, I really don't understand, do the devs actually do any PvP and understand anything about the in game mechanics?600 spell power, level 110 summons, we're talking 3k mojo reavers and mojo storms doing 1500 easy. HMM, lets see what the melee classes got: Oh, they got their foot speed reduced by a privateer companion, wonderful. If I even get close to a witchdoctor I will get completely creamed by hits, just think of how much one heal is going to do after someone uses this

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Stormy Sam Templet... on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
If I recall correctly, Summons are based on will, not spell power. I guess I would have to look into it myself to confirm before I jump the gun against you on this point.

Besides what you said above, it also effects Witch Hunter, as the damage is based on spell power. Were we not complaining about WDs and Privys not having enough tools? This is kind of what we asked for in general, a buff to WDs and a buff to Privy(ish). A buckler's buff can stack with their powers, so I don't really see why Scratchy can't have a good buff to go along a WDs/Privy's powers. For WDs and maybe Privy it is a game changer, but for everyone else, it is just another option.

I am not sure on whether to nerf it or not, because generally, Old Scratch was trash, and the 100% has limited timing, like you said I am not sure on the minions. Since WDs can basically be one turned and buffs do not stack in PvP. I do agree, this and va is really good for Pvp, however that is only IF they decide to bring Old scratch(Unless you are WD or Privy, that one will still basically be a no). The main general ones is basically va and summer's flames/blood flames and the only general ones, the rest are class specific.

-Obviously they did not test this(or at least very well), as staffy users can now use raven's cry in order to get Counterspell and .... Quick Adjust.
Swashbucklers buffing damage is one thing, it buffs well damage, this buffs healing summons shields bombs EVERYTHING and lets be honest, If you see a witchdoctor not using old scratch in PvP then they must be a complete joke because 100% spell power is more valuable then anything any other companion has ever offered

First Mate
Sep 13, 2010
402
Ratbeard on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
-Obviously they did not test this(or at least very well), as staffy users can now use raven's cry in order to get Counterspell and .... Quick Adjust.

What weapon do you have equipped?

My data shows you should be getting Counterspell and Intuition.
I read this in the middle of a fight, and tested Raven's Cry on my Old Scratch. It did indeed give him Intuition and Quick Adjust, so it's probably not a weapon problem.

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Oran from Urz on Sep 16, 2015 wrote:
Also, Duncan brings up a good point I failed to address in my previous posts.

As it stands now, players have the tools to decrease Spell Power by 50%. Even with Old Scratch's power as it stands now, the best Spell Power could be boosted to under those conditions is -25% (for at least five rounds, possibly eight!). Even if Old Scratch's power was changed to 100% Spell Power boost, players can right now debuff that power to 50%.

Now, understand you cannot Eye or Purge Magic a team full of WDs, but you can at least disable the pirate themselves.
Eye is a witchdoctor power, moving on, Purge requires me to sacrifice my shields making me vulnerable, so no this won't work

Lieutenant
Nov 21, 2010
103
@600 spell power

All buffs increases stats taking their base value not total amount. For every pirate at level 65 base Spell Power is 221 if I am not mistaken.

@Purge requires me to sacrifice my shields making me vulnerable, so no this won't work

That might not be that bad. When WD and Bucc collide without any buffs we all know who will come out victorious at the end. Huge chain of hits makes Bucc powerful. My advice is to keep that Purge Magic nearby.

First Mate
Dec 29, 2012
422
Duncan StormThief on Sep 17, 2015 wrote:
@600 spell power

All buffs increases stats taking their base value not total amount. For every pirate at level 65 base Spell Power is 221 if I am not mistaken.

@Purge requires me to sacrifice my shields making me vulnerable, so no this won't work

That might not be that bad. When WD and Bucc collide without any buffs we all know who will come out victorious at the end. Huge chain of hits makes Bucc powerful. My advice is to keep that Purge Magic nearby.
Exactly Duncan, but as someone has already said in this thread.....change is very hard for some. We are going through the same growing pains as Black Fog.

Lieutenant
Aug 29, 2008
146
Duncan StormThief on Sep 17, 2015 wrote:
@600 spell power

All buffs increases stats taking their base value not total amount. For every pirate at level 65 base Spell Power is 221 if I am not mistaken.

@Purge requires me to sacrifice my shields making me vulnerable, so no this won't work

That might not be that bad. When WD and Bucc collide without any buffs we all know who will come out victorious at the end. Huge chain of hits makes Bucc powerful. My advice is to keep that Purge Magic nearby.
It's weird, you would think it would take the buff from the base spell power (221), but it seems to be taking it from the total spell power.

For the 25% buff for example, since that's the only one working right now, you get 69 bonus Spell Power as a Witchdoctor. That is not 25% of 221, it is instead 25% of 276 which is what my Witchdoctor has when you account for base (221) + spooky 1 (11) + spooky 2 (11) + spooky 3 (22) and naturally spooky (11). So as of the moment the buff is taking into account your TOTAL spell power, and not just your base spell power.

This means that, while not 600 spell power, Witches can indeed reach 552 Spell Power (assuming you Krok as origin) with the 100% spell power bonus.

As for the "people not liking change" argument that I see forming, there is a difference between not adapting to change and something just being straight up broken/OP.

The Scorpions getting boosted to level 110+ with 190 base accuracy and 204 base dodge would have made them worse than the Warriors as they would rarely miss, dodge often and deal 250 dmg each with 1400+ health. They would have been extremely OP. However, as Ratbeard has already stated, the Scorpions shouldn't be getting boosted by Spell Power, so once KI fixes that then I agree that the change to Old Scratch is a good one.

People have no problem with recent changes like Grant Relentless/Burst pets, or First Strike 3 removing hidden, or Scent improvement, or the buff to Summer's Flame, or the new powers Emmet gets. Those are good healthy changes to the game that added more level of complexity and strategy. However, when something broken is introduced (100% Mojo buff + Scorpion Staff combo), you can't just say people are not adapting to change. Hard to adapt to something that would make the match so one-sided.

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Duncan StormThief on Sep 17, 2015 wrote:
@600 spell power

All buffs increases stats taking their base value not total amount. For every pirate at level 65 base Spell Power is 221 if I am not mistaken.

@Purge requires me to sacrifice my shields making me vulnerable, so no this won't work

That might not be that bad. When WD and Bucc collide without any buffs we all know who will come out victorious at the end. Huge chain of hits makes Bucc powerful. My advice is to keep that Purge Magic nearby.
Then I sacrifice a fort and more farming -_- and in that sense I'd be setting for 1 class so in Ranked that wouldn't really work, but yes that can come out ok in practice

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Alex Hawkins on Sep 17, 2015 wrote:
It's weird, you would think it would take the buff from the base spell power (221), but it seems to be taking it from the total spell power.

For the 25% buff for example, since that's the only one working right now, you get 69 bonus Spell Power as a Witchdoctor. That is not 25% of 221, it is instead 25% of 276 which is what my Witchdoctor has when you account for base (221) + spooky 1 (11) + spooky 2 (11) + spooky 3 (22) and naturally spooky (11). So as of the moment the buff is taking into account your TOTAL spell power, and not just your base spell power.

This means that, while not 600 spell power, Witches can indeed reach 552 Spell Power (assuming you Krok as origin) with the 100% spell power bonus.

As for the "people not liking change" argument that I see forming, there is a difference between not adapting to change and something just being straight up broken/OP.

The Scorpions getting boosted to level 110+ with 190 base accuracy and 204 base dodge would have made them worse than the Warriors as they would rarely miss, dodge often and deal 250 dmg each with 1400+ health. They would have been extremely OP. However, as Ratbeard has already stated, the Scorpions shouldn't be getting boosted by Spell Power, so once KI fixes that then I agree that the change to Old Scratch is a good one.

People have no problem with recent changes like Grant Relentless/Burst pets, or First Strike 3 removing hidden, or Scent improvement, or the buff to Summer's Flame, or the new powers Emmet gets. Those are good healthy changes to the game that added more level of complexity and strategy. However, when something broken is introduced (100% Mojo buff + Scorpion Staff combo), you can't just say people are not adapting to change. Hard to adapt to something that would make the match so one-sided.
Exactly, as a Buccaneer I acknowledge the struggles other classes may face with us charging so Emmett getting his buff is fine, scent is ok, pets giving grants for epics is good but the scorpions? come on, and its not +221 spell power, the way buffs work now is it doesn't base it off of your base spell power/strength/will etc but rather your overall number so we're talking 600 spell power? regardless of what you want to say about melee classes thats just too op

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