Help with the Hidden powers

AuthorMessage
Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
Eric Stormbringer on Aug 18, 2015 wrote:
Unfortunately my wait time for matches is such that i often cannot find a match in a reasonable amount of time. Currently i have been working on pets and lvl my buccaneer(the true top tier class in this meta imo). That being said- as you have seen swash is very much a one trick pony. Do you have any plans to expand this classes capabilities so that we aren't pigeon-holed into a particular playstyle?
A lot of people would agree that swashbucklers have the same tendencies in pvp, a particular pattern of Hide>Poison>Heal>Shield>Hit, or a different arrangement of these general powers. Now to me, this isn't necessarily a "popular strategy", but rather one making the most of tools at their disposal.

I (a swashbuckler myself) can certainly agree that this "tactic" is fairly effective and very common to see, but I would not for a second call swashbucklers more limited than the next class. Though there might be a more popular way of using specific powers, that doesn't mean other powers are useless at all.

When did you last see gallant defense be used effectively, let alone even used by a swashbuckler in pvp? How often do you see hurl blades/aoe knives used against enemies with first strike 3, so that your hidden damage doesn't go to waste? How often are dance/gambit of steel even used, and for what at that?

I know I have been able to make use of ALL of the powers at my swashbuckler's disposal, and I for one can say that a good number or swashbucklers have not made (or even attempted) certain "unpopular powers" work. Lack of knowledge on how to make them work? Lack of trying something different? Maybe, but I wouldn't for a second say we are "pigeon-holed" in the slightest, let alone a one trick pony.

I'd love to see more "diversity" with swashbucklers, but it's difficult to break one from that pattern that "works all the time". I would also pay scrip to see how many swashbucklers can outlast/win vs that legendary privateer with soul shroud and a plethora of shields/heals left when it's down to pirate vs pirate. Just a thought...

Gunner's Mate
Dec 16, 2009
212
Ratbeard on Aug 19, 2015 wrote:
In what way is the swashbuckler "pigeon-holed" that is not equally true of other classes?

Every class has its defining feature (though, in the WD's case, its feature is "a wide variety of different effects.")

Your toolset is "highly mobile, highly fragile, independent, able to deliver very high burst damage when and where you want."

As pigeon-holes go, it's apparently pretty effective.

What do you want/expect? Tanking? Traps? Heals? Buffs? Summons?
No one denies that swash's hide is now effective however what i meant by pigeon-holed is just how dependent the class is on that line. We've seen that w/o an effective hide swash instantly is a low tier class no question about it. Other classes you can remove a defining line and that class would still be effective. Remove the viscous charge line from buccs and they are still a top-tier. Remove the shooty line from Mus and they are still a top tier. Remove hide from swash and as we have seen it is low tier.

Now while i would love to have team buffs i understand and appreciate the swash's role as the individual class. What i believe swash's secondary role is that has not been fully explored is the utility master. We have slows-heal prevention-group protection and epic triggering. However these powers are similar to the old hide(they simply are not very effective) The slows are only good from 3 range regardless of weapon and at that point your opponent will always be able to hit you anyhow. The group protection forces you to absorb all damage aimed at your team w/ no corresponding buff to the character which is suicidal for such a fragile class. What i would love to see is an expansion of utility such as these or buffs to our utility so they can be effective. Vengeance shroud would be a great power to train for swash's for example.

Developer
Eric Stormbringer on Aug 20, 2015 wrote:
No one denies that swash's hide is now effective however what i meant by pigeon-holed is just how dependent the class is on that line. We've seen that w/o an effective hide swash instantly is a low tier class no question about it. Other classes you can remove a defining line and that class would still be effective. Remove the viscous charge line from buccs and they are still a top-tier. Remove the shooty line from Mus and they are still a top tier. Remove hide from swash and as we have seen it is low tier.

Now while i would love to have team buffs i understand and appreciate the swash's role as the individual class. What i believe swash's secondary role is that has not been fully explored is the utility master. We have slows-heal prevention-group protection and epic triggering. However these powers are similar to the old hide(they simply are not very effective) The slows are only good from 3 range regardless of weapon and at that point your opponent will always be able to hit you anyhow. The group protection forces you to absorb all damage aimed at your team w/ no corresponding buff to the character which is suicidal for such a fragile class. What i would love to see is an expansion of utility such as these or buffs to our utility so they can be effective. Vengeance shroud would be a great power to train for swash's for example.
The group protection forces you to absorb all damage aimed at your team w/ no corresponding buff to the character which is suicidal for such a fragile class.

Hey hey, now. Absorbing all attacks is not at all the same thing as absorbing all the damage for a class with First Strike, Riposte, and the highest possible dodge. And these are always on; no buff required.

I think your complaint about Gallant Defense is particularly PvP-oriented (as would be, I suspect, your analysis of Gambit of Steel).

These are both quite useful (and fun) powers in PvE.

The slows are only good from 3 range regardless of weapon and at that point your opponent will always be able to hit you anyhow.

Fine, if you assume that the enemy doesn't ever want to move away from you or towards a more distant target. And convincing the opponent to "Come at me!" is, in fact, in the Swashbuckler's wheelhouse. (See above. En garde!)

From a roleplaying perspective, one might imagine that the Buccaneer wants to draw attacks away from his companions in order to protect them; whereas for the Swashbuckler, it's because he wants to be the center of attention. He wants all the glory. The swashbuckler really doesn't think of himself as fragile (though, of course, mechanically he is); he thinks of himself as the most capable swordsman on the battlefield. And certainly, in PvE, he is; hide notwithstanding.

Fee free to start another "New Powers" thread for Swashbucklers, if you want to concentrate some ideas in one place.