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Top changes for bringing in more players

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Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
So I made this reply on another thread but thought it could be its own topic so here we go.

Obviously the moment they come out with a new world and progress the story along there is going to be a flood of players. But I don't think that is the core of the problem. What I think the 2 main problems in this game are: 1) the learning curve and 2) how expensive it is to reset companions.

They need to make resetting companions cost gold for everyone not just members. I think this item alone drives away free/crowns players like me who WOULD spend money on crown stuffs, ships, packs, bundles, pvp, companions, and buying all the areas...but see that it costs money to fix every mistake you make on a companion...and figure the game is trying to rip them off. The companions are MASSIVE part of the learning curve too especially if you wanna be competitive. In fact, I would even go so far as to say they are the BIGGEST part of the learning curve in this game. Yes they lowered the price recently, but its still not enough. Since I have started doing pvp...I have reset my top 10 guys dozens of times. 10 x 12 x the 2000 something crowns it takes to reset them each time = 240,000 crowns. No one is paying that. I bought a membership for one month just so I can reset all my guys for gold, do some pvp while I'm at it, then canceling it later since I prefer to buy and subsequently own each area. Ive been playing a while now and I am still figuring things out. Sometimes Ill change a companion up just to experiment with, trial & error style to see which configuration works best. You can't do this if you have to pay crowns

They also need to add a lot more trainers. In wizard101 diego pulls you aside a couple of times ON TOP of ambrose and the others yelling stuff in your ears in order to explain how buffs, shields, critical other things work. Here they need to do the same thing and really pull the pirates aside and go "ok this is how doubloons work, here is how spell/powers work, buffs, anti buffs, how raising a companions will/agility/strength will help affect things, how the benefit of each talent increases as they get higher level so doing all of the same one can be better than well rounded"...and so on. Figuring all this out on your own is not only hard but expensive too.
They also need one for ships. Simple things like how to drop anchor in the middle of the sky way and how to stop fighting in order to run around the ship and remove coins are two things that took me forever to figure out cause boochbeard never popped up for some reason.

Now dont get me wrong. I think this game is phenomenal!! I love playing it! I am in love with my crew and their cheeky personalities. I just wish the poor game had more funding and that kids/families and such would like to play it as much as they do wizard. So these are 2 things that I personally think would help that a lot. Lets make this a thread specifically for bringing in more players rather than improvements in general.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9256
Thomas Sunhammer on Oct 10, 2015 wrote:
So I made this reply on another thread but thought it could be its own topic so here we go.

Obviously the moment they come out with a new world and progress the story along there is going to be a flood of players. But I don't think that is the core of the problem. What I think the 2 main problems in this game are: 1) the learning curve and 2) how expensive it is to reset companions.

They need to make resetting companions cost gold for everyone not just members. I think this item alone drives away free/crowns players like me who WOULD spend money on crown stuffs, ships, packs, bundles, pvp, companions, and buying all the areas...but see that it costs money to fix every mistake you make on a companion...and figure the game is trying to rip them off. The companions are MASSIVE part of the learning curve too especially if you wanna be competitive. In fact, I would even go so far as to say they are the BIGGEST part of the learning curve in this game. Yes they lowered the price recently, but its still not enough. Since I have started doing pvp...I have reset my top 10 guys dozens of times. 10 x 12 x the 2000 something crowns it takes to reset them each time = 240,000 crowns. No one is paying that. I bought a membership for one month just so I can reset all my guys for gold, do some pvp while I'm at it, then canceling it later since I prefer to buy and subsequently own each area. Ive been playing a while now and I am still figuring things out. Sometimes Ill change a companion up just to experiment with, trial & error style to see which configuration works best. You can't do this if you have to pay crowns

They also need to add a lot more trainers. In wizard101 diego pulls you aside a couple of times ON TOP of ambrose and the others yelling stuff in your ears in order to explain how buffs, shields, critical other things work. Here they need to do the same thing and really pull the pirates aside and go "ok this is how doubloons work, here is how spell/powers work, buffs, anti buffs, how raising a companions will/agility/strength will help affect things, how the benefit of each talent increases as they get higher level so doing all of the same one can be better than well rounded"...and so on. Figuring all this out on your own is not only hard but expensive too.
They also need one for ships. Simple things like how to drop anchor in the middle of the sky way and how to stop fighting in order to run around the ship and remove coins are two things that took me forever to figure out cause boochbeard never popped up for some reason.

Now dont get me wrong. I think this game is phenomenal!! I love playing it! I am in love with my crew and their cheeky personalities. I just wish the poor game had more funding and that kids/families and such would like to play it as much as they do wizard. So these are 2 things that I personally think would help that a lot. Lets make this a thread specifically for bringing in more players rather than improvements in general.
There are 'disagrees' and 'agrees' for this post. Let's get the disagree part out of the way:
Membership should have benefits - part of this is resets for gold, you want to reset a companion for gold? Get a membership. You want more space in the bank/backpack? or a larger friend's list? or even use the transportalators for gold? Get a flippin' membership!
KI isle is already very generous in many aspects of this game - you can buy houses for gold, use mounts and gear without it being tied to membership, you can buy areas to give you access to the storyline, and none of this requires MEMBERSHIP, how many MMOs do this?
Now for the agree part ( and I hope your still reading, Thomas )
There ought to be more tutorials, especially ship tutorials. A couple of years ago, Boochbeard actually gave a ship tutorial during your escape from Deacon, I believe that this should be returned to the game, perhaps when we get our first 'ship'.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
anecorbie on Oct 11, 2015 wrote:
There are 'disagrees' and 'agrees' for this post. Let's get the disagree part out of the way:
Membership should have benefits - part of this is resets for gold, you want to reset a companion for gold? Get a membership. You want more space in the bank/backpack? or a larger friend's list? or even use the transportalators for gold? Get a flippin' membership!
KI isle is already very generous in many aspects of this game - you can buy houses for gold, use mounts and gear without it being tied to membership, you can buy areas to give you access to the storyline, and none of this requires MEMBERSHIP, how many MMOs do this?
Now for the agree part ( and I hope your still reading, Thomas )
There ought to be more tutorials, especially ship tutorials. A couple of years ago, Boochbeard actually gave a ship tutorial during your escape from Deacon, I believe that this should be returned to the game, perhaps when we get our first 'ship'.
Wow thats a shocker. Half agreeing :p

As for the disagreement I hear you. I do really. I know they need to make money. And I know that their need to benefits for members. And as far as the transportulator and bigger back pack and easy to reset ship feel and all those other things I agree that members should get the benefit. But not with companions.

Here is why I think that this ONE THING is crossing a crucial line.
1) The reason I mentioned before is the learning curve. There are so many different ways to set up a companion and learning which ways are better than others. I have been playing for a while and I still have to reset mine all the time when I fight someone who maybe set theirs up better. Or when I realize the way I have anne set up on my musket is NOT the way I need to set her up on my privy. And I am at the point I KNOW better. Let alone poor noobs who have never played and were former free players on wizard101. Where there it was easy...are blind sided by the learning curve here.

2) This one I haven't listed...but the NUMBER of companions makes HUGE difference. Because of how many companions there are making it costs crowns compound the issue I already mentioned. In pirate and wizard if you want to reset the pirate it costs 2000-3000 crowns (depending on how many points you've gotten from zeke). That is an acceptable price cause the pirate is the power house and it doesn't need to happen that often. But forcing free players to pay that over and over and over again for the dozens of companions is too much. And when you get MORE pirates its even worse since only the story line ones are the same. The learning curve gets worse as they move from privy comps to musket comps. And how each interacts with one anothr and the different types of school. ((ex: How awesome catbeard is with a good will boost from marchioness vs if he is put with a buck)) And so on. BEST case scenaro is 5 pirates each with 2 pages of companions...continue...

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
anecorbie on Oct 11, 2015 wrote:
There are 'disagrees' and 'agrees' for this post. Let's get the disagree part out of the way:
Membership should have benefits - part of this is resets for gold, you want to reset a companion for gold? Get a membership. You want more space in the bank/backpack? or a larger friend's list? or even use the transportalators for gold? Get a flippin' membership!
KI isle is already very generous in many aspects of this game - you can buy houses for gold, use mounts and gear without it being tied to membership, you can buy areas to give you access to the storyline, and none of this requires MEMBERSHIP, how many MMOs do this?
Now for the agree part ( and I hope your still reading, Thomas )
There ought to be more tutorials, especially ship tutorials. A couple of years ago, Boochbeard actually gave a ship tutorial during your escape from Deacon, I believe that this should be returned to the game, perhaps when we get our first 'ship'.
BEST case scenaro is 5 pirates each with 2 pages of companions that is 32 companions. Now assuming each is only reset once...at max or even close to max level that is 64,000 crowns! Keep in mind that this is ignoring all the mini resets along the way AND assuming that they only need to reset them once and get it perfect on that one reset. Which as I mentioned above is unlikely because their noobs!

3) Is the talents. I dont know if KI did this on purpose...but it is impossible to get you companion up to max level and fully max out your 4 favorite talents. For some reason no matter what you try you will end up with 3 talents that have all 4 upgrades...and one with only 3. Not this might not seem like a big issue but lets not forget that the talent benefits improve they higher the number. As an example...if tough is the one left with only 3...your comp is now shorted 200 health! Or if its rough that is 15 weapon power! Those are big numbers. So its almost like they are forcing people to have to reset at least once.

Now you are right about one thing. This IS highly motivating to get a membership...if ONLY to reset your companions. But...the core of my entire reason for thinking this needs to be fixed...is the idea that it is ALIENATING free players. Free players choose that route because they DONT WANT to be members! They dont wanna have to play every day because they are worried about throwing money away on the membership they aren't using. They dont like monthly payments. Paying per area gives them flexibility. So having something like this that is SOOOOO compelling and essentially FORCES pay as you go players to become members...will indeed push them away. Sure you will get some odd balls like me who will by a temporary membership cause they love the game so much. But many will get frustrated with the learning curve on top of seeing this rip off with the companions and will just leave. Especially parents who...continue...

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
anecorbie on Oct 11, 2015 wrote:
There are 'disagrees' and 'agrees' for this post. Let's get the disagree part out of the way:
Membership should have benefits - part of this is resets for gold, you want to reset a companion for gold? Get a membership. You want more space in the bank/backpack? or a larger friend's list? or even use the transportalators for gold? Get a flippin' membership!
KI isle is already very generous in many aspects of this game - you can buy houses for gold, use mounts and gear without it being tied to membership, you can buy areas to give you access to the storyline, and none of this requires MEMBERSHIP, how many MMOs do this?
Now for the agree part ( and I hope your still reading, Thomas )
There ought to be more tutorials, especially ship tutorials. A couple of years ago, Boochbeard actually gave a ship tutorial during your escape from Deacon, I believe that this should be returned to the game, perhaps when we get our first 'ship'.
Especially parents who think this is too much to fund for all their kids trying to figure out what to do. And teenagers who dont have tons to spend and need to choose the most thrifty route. Basically KI is driving away their main crowds. Combined with the issue you DO agree with...about not having enough trainers. And people get frustrated and give up quickly.

Now...I dressed this already but its worth noting in more detail since we are talking money. But free players do still bring in TONS of cash. Just buying pvp passes alone will bring in a lot of crowns! On top of that are the companions that players can purchase. ((Then dapple ganger starters cost tons and they rock.)) ship stuff. Purchasing new areas themselves ((its not cheap...so far i think its $120 IF you buy crowns in bulk. Let alone if you dont)) Resetting their pirate themselves. Stitching. Weapons. Minions. All these things cost crowns and free players will pay for them. Not to mention the word of mouth! MORE free players who stay longer in the game means a bigger community. They can tell friends about the game. They can come and hang out happy to know they aren't wasting any money on monthly fees. The friends bring in more friends and so on.

I know there is a battle between how does KI make money...and how do I as a player pay as little as possible. But by alienating the pay as you go players...I really do think they are shooting themselves in the foot. Keep in mind some of this will still exist even if they do make companions cost gold. The transportulator annoys a lot of wizard101 players cause they compare it to what it if it cost to us the world door inside Bartlebee every time? Still an insentive for membership, as well as quick mid flight refeuling for ships and so on.

So I hear your point about benefits for members. But I think this is one exception they need to change their minds about.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9256
Thomas Sunhammer on Oct 12, 2015 wrote:
Especially parents who think this is too much to fund for all their kids trying to figure out what to do. And teenagers who dont have tons to spend and need to choose the most thrifty route. Basically KI is driving away their main crowds. Combined with the issue you DO agree with...about not having enough trainers. And people get frustrated and give up quickly.

Now...I dressed this already but its worth noting in more detail since we are talking money. But free players do still bring in TONS of cash. Just buying pvp passes alone will bring in a lot of crowns! On top of that are the companions that players can purchase. ((Then dapple ganger starters cost tons and they rock.)) ship stuff. Purchasing new areas themselves ((its not cheap...so far i think its $120 IF you buy crowns in bulk. Let alone if you dont)) Resetting their pirate themselves. Stitching. Weapons. Minions. All these things cost crowns and free players will pay for them. Not to mention the word of mouth! MORE free players who stay longer in the game means a bigger community. They can tell friends about the game. They can come and hang out happy to know they aren't wasting any money on monthly fees. The friends bring in more friends and so on.

I know there is a battle between how does KI make money...and how do I as a player pay as little as possible. But by alienating the pay as you go players...I really do think they are shooting themselves in the foot. Keep in mind some of this will still exist even if they do make companions cost gold. The transportulator annoys a lot of wizard101 players cause they compare it to what it if it cost to us the world door inside Bartlebee every time? Still an insentive for membership, as well as quick mid flight refeuling for ships and so on.

So I hear your point about benefits for members. But I think this is one exception they need to change their minds about.
You have many good reasons for asking for this, yes, I read through the entire thing, but ( always a but, isn't there ? ) as I say the benefit of membership should include extras - otherwise why have membership at all? Just make the game so that everyone has to pay for zones? Many players would think that was a rip-off!
Last year, when KI introduced Advanced Companions, they gave everyone a free reset for companions and captain! And further, when they introduced the Clandestine Trainers, KI gave another free reset for captains so that we could take advantage of the new talents available.
I maintain that KI has shown more generousity to its customers than many MMOs have done, and to ask or demand something already available to members is like taking money away from their business.
I think your arguments that this would attract more players as not entirely thought through, more free players doesn't mean more money. For example, when I buy a game card a portion of the money goes to both KI and the store I bought it from.
When someone buys a membership directly from KI, then all the money goes to KI.

Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
382
I wont say I'm for or against it but, I just want to say that I've been playing for like one year and half, and I still reset companions once in a while. Sure I'm a member, but my point is I understand Thomas' view about it, it's difficult to get a companion set properly. And even then, you might need to reset again for this or that reason.

Aaaand we'll probably need to reset a few again when max level increases, because I assume we'll get talents above rank 4.

Now then, I believe KI knows what they're doing, they've kept W101 and P101 afloat for several years, I think they wont change anything if they still make profits.

Admiral
Jul 07, 2013
1124
Perhaps what is also driving people away is all these constant little tweaks you have to do that are distractions such as constantly modifying companions, training pets, crafting (soon), farming to stay competitive, and for some pvp. It gets to the point where maybe all people want is to play a game and enjoy a funny story. Not giving your total life away just keeping up with the side things.

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Captain
Mar 24, 2013
732
I don't mind paying crowns for reseting my companions.

Keep in mind companions have a cretain disadvantages and cretain advantages in cretain class. Choose wisely, when building them.

Until then best of luck in the brawling hall.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
anecorbie on Oct 12, 2015 wrote:
You have many good reasons for asking for this, yes, I read through the entire thing, but ( always a but, isn't there ? ) as I say the benefit of membership should include extras - otherwise why have membership at all? Just make the game so that everyone has to pay for zones? Many players would think that was a rip-off!
Last year, when KI introduced Advanced Companions, they gave everyone a free reset for companions and captain! And further, when they introduced the Clandestine Trainers, KI gave another free reset for captains so that we could take advantage of the new talents available.
I maintain that KI has shown more generousity to its customers than many MMOs have done, and to ask or demand something already available to members is like taking money away from their business.
I think your arguments that this would attract more players as not entirely thought through, more free players doesn't mean more money. For example, when I buy a game card a portion of the money goes to both KI and the store I bought it from.
When someone buys a membership directly from KI, then all the money goes to KI.
Well I agree that they are very helpful and very considerate. The occasional free reset it nice but it doesn't fix the problem. Im not trying to tell them how to do things. But I am sharing MY THOUGHTS as a long LONG time pay as you go player. I was with wizard101 for years. They sent me a thing inviting me over to pirates when the game first came out. And I planned on being a pay as you go player here too.

The points I mentioned are thoughts and frustrations I HAD when I discovered these issues AS a free player! Now maybe members dont feel the same way. All I am sharing is the frustration that I and other free players I brought over with me have felt. Sadly the friends I brought with me hit that wall and left never to play again. I got hooked but then I already confessed to being the odd ball :p

There are still lots of benefits for being a member over a free player without this one thing. I would argue even if they got rid of this one thing, pirate101 members still have more membership-to-crownplayer benefits than their wizard101 counterparts.

As for game cards your right, but not everyone buys those. Lots of people just buy them online. I can't find half the cards in stores anyway. And even if they do buy those I dont think KI is going to complain that they loose a tiny bit...so long as people are spending money for their product!

Your missing the point though. Its not so much that this would "attract" more players. Rather it will help stop "driving them away." They are alienating or pushing away free players with the companion thing. The transporter annoys people enough but this one costs TONS and it adds up really fast. After pointing out the major issues with how expensive it USED to be they lowered the price...lol but that is not enough. It needs to come down. I am telling you as a free player that this IS how it feels. And If I felt this way being the addict-able odd ball I am...I guarantee that most other pay as you go players will feel the same way.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9256
Thomas Sunhammer on Oct 13, 2015 wrote:
Well I agree that they are very helpful and very considerate. The occasional free reset it nice but it doesn't fix the problem. Im not trying to tell them how to do things. But I am sharing MY THOUGHTS as a long LONG time pay as you go player. I was with wizard101 for years. They sent me a thing inviting me over to pirates when the game first came out. And I planned on being a pay as you go player here too.

The points I mentioned are thoughts and frustrations I HAD when I discovered these issues AS a free player! Now maybe members dont feel the same way. All I am sharing is the frustration that I and other free players I brought over with me have felt. Sadly the friends I brought with me hit that wall and left never to play again. I got hooked but then I already confessed to being the odd ball :p

There are still lots of benefits for being a member over a free player without this one thing. I would argue even if they got rid of this one thing, pirate101 members still have more membership-to-crownplayer benefits than their wizard101 counterparts.

As for game cards your right, but not everyone buys those. Lots of people just buy them online. I can't find half the cards in stores anyway. And even if they do buy those I dont think KI is going to complain that they loose a tiny bit...so long as people are spending money for their product!

Your missing the point though. Its not so much that this would "attract" more players. Rather it will help stop "driving them away." They are alienating or pushing away free players with the companion thing. The transporter annoys people enough but this one costs TONS and it adds up really fast. After pointing out the major issues with how expensive it USED to be they lowered the price...lol but that is not enough. It needs to come down. I am telling you as a free player that this IS how it feels. And If I felt this way being the addict-able odd ball I am...I guarantee that most other pay as you go players will feel the same way.
Well, you couldn't know this; but, I'm also a free player and have played for years on Wizard101 and now here since a week before Pirate101 came officially on line. So I know exactly what you've gone through.
I don't trust the Internet for using credit cards, I do buy game cards at the local Family Dollar or occasionally at Game Stop.
I really don't see how this is driving players away. Yes, I've made my share of mistakes in training companions as well as myself, but I learned to live and adjust my play style with it; it just doesn't seem to me worth spending the crowns for something that really had no impact on the game ( story-wise ).
Now Ranked PVP seems to be where most players are having to reset and adjust companions and captain, ( but most of these have a membership already ) perhaps you have a point there, but why should KI make this a gold transaction? In other words, how does it truly benefit them?

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
anecorbie on Oct 13, 2015 wrote:
Well, you couldn't know this; but, I'm also a free player and have played for years on Wizard101 and now here since a week before Pirate101 came officially on line. So I know exactly what you've gone through.
I don't trust the Internet for using credit cards, I do buy game cards at the local Family Dollar or occasionally at Game Stop.
I really don't see how this is driving players away. Yes, I've made my share of mistakes in training companions as well as myself, but I learned to live and adjust my play style with it; it just doesn't seem to me worth spending the crowns for something that really had no impact on the game ( story-wise ).
Now Ranked PVP seems to be where most players are having to reset and adjust companions and captain, ( but most of these have a membership already ) perhaps you have a point there, but why should KI make this a gold transaction? In other words, how does it truly benefit them?
Well you just said it yourself. "It just doesn't seem to me WORTH spending the crowns" So either way it has NO BENEFIT! Either they are like you and they just learn to live with the mistakes and dont spend the crowns. Or they are like me and save up all their messed up companions and do all of them at once when the monthly membership drops down to $5 dollars. In which case they STILL dont spend the crowns. Either way this will have very little success.

Now throw on top of that the psychological reasons I mentioned on how it makes free players feel and think about the game. And you have something the discourages pay as you go players with little reward. You are unique in the sense that you can live with the error of messed companions. But there are a lot of "collector types" or "perfectionists" or "strategists" on the game where that would drive them nuts. They like making their teams and crew mates all perfect. And they do not like the idea of paying to fix crew companions AND themselves if they train in the wrong schools. Don't forget the pirate himself has to train as well and needs resets. In that case members and free players have to pay crowns.

What benefit do they get? It will stop driving away free players. There are HUNDREDS of free players in wizard101. But there are much less here (and I am talking ratio wise not numbers as a whole since pirate has less anyway.) At least not member who play pvp. Those that only do quests are more like you where they learn and just make a new pirate and dont make those mistakes. But pay as you go players WOULD still buy monthly or season pass memberships for pvp as well as loads more other things.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
I wanted to add one more thing to this thread. A point I half mentioned but didn't quite hit on specifically and its the membership to pay as you go relationship as it pertains to the new worlds.

I mentioned at the beginning of this thread that players will come flooding back once they release a new area and I think this is true. However not having any new worlds for over 3 years, makes people less likely to keep paying for a membership. The BIGGEST benefit of a membership for this "type" of game is that you have free access to all the areas. (There are of course many benefits but this is by far the most important one as well as the defining difference between members and "pay-as-you-go" players) Otherwise you have to pay for each area. But without any new worlds the motivation to KEEP paying for a membership that isn't giving you anything new becomes very small.

Now my point in bringing this up is NOT to harp on KI about no new worlds. I am sure they are aware of the need. But, tying this in with my earlier points, about free players companions costing too much and that driving free players away brings the entire issue into a new light.

To sum up, KI isn't giving members enough motivation to KEEP paying for their memberships. (In fact I know of dozens of people who canceled their membership and are simply waiting for the release of a new world to start up their membership up again) But at the same time they are punishing pay as you go players by making companions cost 2000 crowns per change, essentially FORCING free players to become members if they want to save money on reseting their companions. So basically they are forcing free players to become members while simultaneously taking away the core motivation to STAY a member! They have created a paradox or loop of joining and quitting that is killing the game and shooting them in the foot.

So I will finish by proposing they make the resetting of companions free for all with the release of the the new world.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9256
Thomas Sunhammer on Oct 19, 2015 wrote:
I wanted to add one more thing to this thread. A point I half mentioned but didn't quite hit on specifically and its the membership to pay as you go relationship as it pertains to the new worlds.

I mentioned at the beginning of this thread that players will come flooding back once they release a new area and I think this is true. However not having any new worlds for over 3 years, makes people less likely to keep paying for a membership. The BIGGEST benefit of a membership for this "type" of game is that you have free access to all the areas. (There are of course many benefits but this is by far the most important one as well as the defining difference between members and "pay-as-you-go" players) Otherwise you have to pay for each area. But without any new worlds the motivation to KEEP paying for a membership that isn't giving you anything new becomes very small.

Now my point in bringing this up is NOT to harp on KI about no new worlds. I am sure they are aware of the need. But, tying this in with my earlier points, about free players companions costing too much and that driving free players away brings the entire issue into a new light.

To sum up, KI isn't giving members enough motivation to KEEP paying for their memberships. (In fact I know of dozens of people who canceled their membership and are simply waiting for the release of a new world to start up their membership up again) But at the same time they are punishing pay as you go players by making companions cost 2000 crowns per change, essentially FORCING free players to become members if they want to save money on reseting their companions. So basically they are forcing free players to become members while simultaneously taking away the core motivation to STAY a member! They have created a paradox or loop of joining and quitting that is killing the game and shooting them in the foot.

So I will finish by proposing they make the resetting of companions free for all with the release of the the new world.
You're right that many players have canceled membership due to lack of a new story line, although there does seem to be plenty of players keeping membership to engage in Ranked PVP.
I don't believe that its a "punishment" to ask that free-to-play players pay crowns to reset companions, when all they have to do is buy a membership ( for however long they need it to reset ). One month = $10.00, this is very reasonable.
Membership should have benefits and this is one of them.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
anecorbie on Oct 19, 2015 wrote:
You're right that many players have canceled membership due to lack of a new story line, although there does seem to be plenty of players keeping membership to engage in Ranked PVP.
I don't believe that its a "punishment" to ask that free-to-play players pay crowns to reset companions, when all they have to do is buy a membership ( for however long they need it to reset ). One month = $10.00, this is very reasonable.
Membership should have benefits and this is one of them.
Your missing the point. Those players DONT WANT to be members and its FORCING them. Why should they have to buy a membership AND pay for every area. That is definitely "punishment" in my book.

$10 might seem reasonable to you but a lot of these players a little kids or struggling students. And when you have already forked over 100's of dollars to pay for all the areas...for KI to still force you to become a member...well it kinda feels wrong.

Keep in mind this is my ONLY crown player complaint. I have gotten over the struggles of having to sail to every area cause I too cheap to use the transporter. And how my ships run out of feul and I can't fill up for a while. And how my back pack has to be constantly emptied cause it fills up so fast. But this ONE THING...its too much I am sorry.

Its something that doesn't exist in wizard101 and look at the success it has and how many pay-as-you-go players it has that love to still go there and hang out, make new wizards, or repeat dungeons just for the fun of it happy they dont have to pay any monthly fees. Where as pirates is full of canceled memberships and limited pay as you players cause the rest were driven away. Which as I have stated is due to the lack of trainers and the cost of resetting that many companions.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9256
Thomas Sunhammer on Oct 19, 2015 wrote:
Your missing the point. Those players DONT WANT to be members and its FORCING them. Why should they have to buy a membership AND pay for every area. That is definitely "punishment" in my book.

$10 might seem reasonable to you but a lot of these players a little kids or struggling students. And when you have already forked over 100's of dollars to pay for all the areas...for KI to still force you to become a member...well it kinda feels wrong.

Keep in mind this is my ONLY crown player complaint. I have gotten over the struggles of having to sail to every area cause I too cheap to use the transporter. And how my ships run out of feul and I can't fill up for a while. And how my back pack has to be constantly emptied cause it fills up so fast. But this ONE THING...its too much I am sorry.

Its something that doesn't exist in wizard101 and look at the success it has and how many pay-as-you-go players it has that love to still go there and hang out, make new wizards, or repeat dungeons just for the fun of it happy they dont have to pay any monthly fees. Where as pirates is full of canceled memberships and limited pay as you players cause the rest were driven away. Which as I have stated is due to the lack of trainers and the cost of resetting that many companions.
This may seem harsh, but if you're that bad off financially, then you shouldn't be playing. Why should KI lose potentially tens of thousands of dollars ( perhaps more, seeing that there's like 2 million playing this game )because of free players?

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
Again your jumping to conclusions. I am not the one struggling financially. Hence the reason I called myself an odd ball and why I have payed the prices mentioned in order to get the benefits.

I am saying this on behalf of others. ((Shocking i know. You people responding to my posts seem to think I make them all for myself. When that isn't true at all not even once)). The fact is I feel for others, friend and little noobs I have spoken to that have shared their pains and frustrations with me and have made these comments on their behalf.

As for costing them money...THAT IS my ENTIRE POINT! You seem to have missed it...but part of this post wasn't just for players...but for KI too! That why when I phrased it I said that its "shooting themselves in the foot." Honestly I think this is costing them money. Because most people aren NOT as odd as me. I seriously thing this would draw in or at least retain more players on the whole. As things are...they aren't being efficient in order to make the most money. Rather they are just squeezing what they can out of the players that actually make it past all the barriers mentioned in this post.

Free players...are kind of all that exist in this game at the moment (cause of canceled membership due to no knew areas) So "pushing free players away" is drastically reducing the niche to which this crowd applies. This also was a major point I made at the beginning. Free players or not...more people in the game means more money. Yes they dont have monthly fees...but they DO still buy crowns. And there are so many other things to buy, as well as word of mouth becoming stronger. Catering to free players IS a GOOD thing. Pushing them away...will damage the effectiveness of the game over all.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9256
Thomas Sunhammer on Oct 20, 2015 wrote:
Again your jumping to conclusions. I am not the one struggling financially. Hence the reason I called myself an odd ball and why I have payed the prices mentioned in order to get the benefits.

I am saying this on behalf of others. ((Shocking i know. You people responding to my posts seem to think I make them all for myself. When that isn't true at all not even once)). The fact is I feel for others, friend and little noobs I have spoken to that have shared their pains and frustrations with me and have made these comments on their behalf.

As for costing them money...THAT IS my ENTIRE POINT! You seem to have missed it...but part of this post wasn't just for players...but for KI too! That why when I phrased it I said that its "shooting themselves in the foot." Honestly I think this is costing them money. Because most people aren NOT as odd as me. I seriously thing this would draw in or at least retain more players on the whole. As things are...they aren't being efficient in order to make the most money. Rather they are just squeezing what they can out of the players that actually make it past all the barriers mentioned in this post.

Free players...are kind of all that exist in this game at the moment (cause of canceled membership due to no knew areas) So "pushing free players away" is drastically reducing the niche to which this crowd applies. This also was a major point I made at the beginning. Free players or not...more people in the game means more money. Yes they dont have monthly fees...but they DO still buy crowns. And there are so many other things to buy, as well as word of mouth becoming stronger. Catering to free players IS a GOOD thing. Pushing them away...will damage the effectiveness of the game over all.
I didn't mean 'you' personally, I meant 'all of you'; maybe I should have used the word 'them'
Look, we could argue this back and forth and still find no middle ground - let's let it lie and let KI make their financial decisions, ok?

Lieutenant
Dec 15, 2012
135
anecorbie on Oct 20, 2015 wrote:
This may seem harsh, but if you're that bad off financially, then you shouldn't be playing. Why should KI lose potentially tens of thousands of dollars ( perhaps more, seeing that there's like 2 million playing this game )because of free players?
I know there is quite a bit here but please read it all

Hey Anecorbie, how are you? You must understand me when I say that I HATE having to disagree with you on anything but there is something that you may not understand. I am doing very well financially and am no where even close to being poor, but I am unemployed (looking for a job but don't have one at the moment but its looking good that I'll have one soon...yay :D). So actually, unfortunately, $10/$20 is "a lot" to me. Hearing that many adults also play these two games, is like a "what the what?!" thing for me because neither of my parents, or my 31 year old brother, would ever even consider even trying either one. So I really can't just ask them for money every month or even every two months. So though I love this game and use almost all the money I receive on it (because I only get money usually on special days like birthdays) but of course I'm also not stupid and of course I leave living money. So though it might be easy for some people (mostly cute five year-olds who no one even their parents can't usually say no to) to get money from their parents, its much harder for others to get money from their parents. I have no idea how old you are but I can tell you that when you are 20 years old and probably older, you still have chores like vacuuming and dusting the house, but unlike when your parents first "convince" you to do work around the house, when you are older they are more like, "You need to do your part around the house because its the right thing to do. Get a job if you want money." It would be awesome if we could all stay cute five year-olds but reality can be cruel sometimes.

Of course I have to put in something that I DO agree with you with on. I agree that KI shouldn't have to lose thousands of dollars. We all know that unfortunately, money is important in about 99% of all things that happen in our daily lives.

Lieutenant
Dec 15, 2012
135
anecorbie on Oct 20, 2015 wrote:
This may seem harsh, but if you're that bad off financially, then you shouldn't be playing. Why should KI lose potentially tens of thousands of dollars ( perhaps more, seeing that there's like 2 million playing this game )because of free players?
A continuation of my last post. So to finish up my post, I think what Thomas is trying to get through to everyone, is that we know that they (KI) can't really do much without money, no one can. We all know that, but what he is (probably) trying to get across is that we just don't want to have to pay for too much. Heck I've read a topic about a part of Skull Island that is now pay-to-access apparently. I haven't personally been to that part of the island yet apparently so I don't know if the player just got confused, but if it is that they are now starting to have us pay for places on Skull Island itself, it feels like a bit too much to have to pay for. I think that if they (KI) are actually doing that, I think that they are going for the areas like Firecat Alley and Cyclops Lane from Wizard101. But I doubt that a whole lot of people really like the fact that we have to pay for ANY part of the first world we are in (Wizard City or Skull Island and its skyway(s)). So we all agree that there should be membership benefits but we just don't want the entire game to become pay-to-play-anything-other-than-minigames.

That is all. Please don't take it the wrong way and make it a huge disagreement. This was just a friendly explanation

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9256
Magnificent Kiley on Oct 22, 2015 wrote:
A continuation of my last post. So to finish up my post, I think what Thomas is trying to get through to everyone, is that we know that they (KI) can't really do much without money, no one can. We all know that, but what he is (probably) trying to get across is that we just don't want to have to pay for too much. Heck I've read a topic about a part of Skull Island that is now pay-to-access apparently. I haven't personally been to that part of the island yet apparently so I don't know if the player just got confused, but if it is that they are now starting to have us pay for places on Skull Island itself, it feels like a bit too much to have to pay for. I think that if they (KI) are actually doing that, I think that they are going for the areas like Firecat Alley and Cyclops Lane from Wizard101. But I doubt that a whole lot of people really like the fact that we have to pay for ANY part of the first world we are in (Wizard City or Skull Island and its skyway(s)). So we all agree that there should be membership benefits but we just don't want the entire game to become pay-to-play-anything-other-than-minigames.

That is all. Please don't take it the wrong way and make it a huge disagreement. This was just a friendly explanation
Kiley, that's ok. I don't expect anyone to agree with me 100% of the time ( or even 1% ). I'm an adult and make my living from home by illustrating a children's book series. Money is tight, I think this is true for a majority of people in this game. Any money I receive at Christmas or birthday goes into this game immediately, I guess I'm lucky that my family understands my fascination in this game and don't try to discourage or disparage my hobby.
But I've seen a few MMOs ruin themselves by doing what Thomas has suggested: by catering to the free to play gamers. They failed to generate memberships and its memberships that support the game.
Skull Island has never been completely free to play, you had to buy Jonah Town. This newer addition with an expanded story line for the 3 quests in Traitor's Cave is analogous to the "Three Streets" in Wizard City, and I've never heard anyone complain about having to buy these zones.

Lieutenant
Jun 29, 2011
163
Magnificent Kiley on Oct 22, 2015 wrote:
A continuation of my last post. So to finish up my post, I think what Thomas is trying to get through to everyone, is that we know that they (KI) can't really do much without money, no one can. We all know that, but what he is (probably) trying to get across is that we just don't want to have to pay for too much. Heck I've read a topic about a part of Skull Island that is now pay-to-access apparently. I haven't personally been to that part of the island yet apparently so I don't know if the player just got confused, but if it is that they are now starting to have us pay for places on Skull Island itself, it feels like a bit too much to have to pay for. I think that if they (KI) are actually doing that, I think that they are going for the areas like Firecat Alley and Cyclops Lane from Wizard101. But I doubt that a whole lot of people really like the fact that we have to pay for ANY part of the first world we are in (Wizard City or Skull Island and its skyway(s)). So we all agree that there should be membership benefits but we just don't want the entire game to become pay-to-play-anything-other-than-minigames.

That is all. Please don't take it the wrong way and make it a huge disagreement. This was just a friendly explanation
There are lots of places in Skull Island that are pay-to-access. So many, that I can't possibly list them all.

They (The ones that I know of) are:

Jonah Town, Port Regal Skyway+certain areas that you have to pay for separately, Isle of Doom, (Or parts of it, if not all. I forget...) Waponi Wu and Cutthroat Bay.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
You all make valid points. And I am happy for the contributions.

Kiley. You are right that what I am "probably" trying to get across is we dont want to "pay to much". Or rather another way of phrasing it is I dont think we should have to pay "unnecessary EXTRA expenses."

Paying for each area... yes even "Cyclops Ally" or "Jonah town" even though they are technically in the starting areas...is an acceptable expense. They made the game to sell itself. And the fact is those costs are very effective tools for KI! By getting a pirate started and hooked then making them pay to find out what happens next is HIGHLY motivating to get a membership or buy the area. Yay for everyone! ^_^ But concerning what Annecorbie has said about "catering to free players" and what I have said about the cost of resetting companions I feel like KI is actually hurting themselves. Its a counter productive tool.

Unlike with the areas where a player is highly motivated to get something NEW and thus pay for it...resetting a companion IS NOT NEW...and thus the motivation is far lower. Also it sends a bad message when the excitement of getting to build up a crew is tainted by the fact you have to pay to fix them for every single mistake you make. Making mistakes is hard enough without making it cost more money too and I honestly think that buts a bad taste in peoples mouths. To put it into perspective to reset a pirate with ALL the zeke training points, it costs around 3000 crowns. To reset a max companion, it costs "close" to the same at 2000 crowns and we have a lot of companions. Like in wizard the cost to reset a pirate will continue to grow as they gain more points. But even if the 2000 for companions doesnt grow...combining the cost of resetting oneself with the cost of resetting your entire crew is too much.

KI doesn't need to cater to the free players. But they should try not to drive them away either. My suggestion is for KI's benefit as well as the players.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
I wanted to add one more thought. Before the last update I had written to KI repeatedly telling them of the tragedy of how expensive it was to reset a companion. I am not sure if everyone remembers but it was cheaper to buy a whole new companion from the crown shop rather than reset one! Seriously the price was insane and ridiculous

Thankfully, they realized that I (and anyone else who made that suggestion cause Im sure I wasn't the only one) was right. So they gave the companions a crown cap at 2000. So resetting at lower levels grows until it hits that cap and wont go any higher.

Now I am making this suggestion to further help them AND the players along. 2000 crowns is still too much. When it costs that much and is that close to resetting the pirate them self that price is too high. I really think KI needs to make it free for all. Having a crew is so much fun, but having to pay for them ruins that excitement...ESPECIALLY for first time players.

However, if they are unwilling to make it free, they should definitely lower the cap much MUCH further for it to be effective. Im thinking 500 crowns tops. Too cheap? Well at that price, its low enough that people wont see it as that big of a sacrifice and thus pay it more often. Much in the same way the transporter, stitching, and resetting your flag only costs 100 crowns each. Players see that as an "acceptable loss" and thus pay for it all the time which adds up quickly! This COULD be the same. Actually I think a 100-200 crown cap per companion reset is the best. I would loose a lot more crowns that way (especially cause of PvP) if it were that price. Only because I would spend it without realizing how much it was adding up.

The higher the price the more I feel the burden and thus the less willing I am to pay. Lowering it still wont remove the negative feeling it gives new players. But at least it would be a more effective tool for KI. Right now as it is, very few are willing to pay that price.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 30, 2009
240
Silver Angel on Oct 12, 2015 wrote:
I wont say I'm for or against it but, I just want to say that I've been playing for like one year and half, and I still reset companions once in a while. Sure I'm a member, but my point is I understand Thomas' view about it, it's difficult to get a companion set properly. And even then, you might need to reset again for this or that reason.

Aaaand we'll probably need to reset a few again when max level increases, because I assume we'll get talents above rank 4.

Now then, I believe KI knows what they're doing, they've kept W101 and P101 afloat for several years, I think they wont change anything if they still make profits.
Little tweaks
Your right. Those little tweaks become a bit exhausting after a while. But making those tweaks cost realy money on top of the chore itself is the issue here.

Thank you for making this point. I didnt even hit on the fact that its exhausting to have to reset and click each talent and epic over and over again only to not get it "quite right" and have to do it AGAIN. And when new worlds, max level increases, and new strategies come out that entire process has to be repeated again for allf 32 companions. So making it cost 2000 crowns each on top of all that is way too much.

As for KI...wizard101 is thriving...pirate101 is only just staying afloat. I know KI is free do to as they please. But I cant believe that their methods are actually that effective if the game is barely hanging on. (After all no new world for 3 years isn't really succeeding.) As for their profits...well if they WERE making a lot on this game I would "assume" that would motivate them to do more with it. (These may be erroneous assumptions since I have no access to their records but the logic is sound at least)

The reason I made this thread was out of my love for the game! Its for people to make suggestions for how we can make THIS game thrive too! The 2 suggestions I made (cost of resetting companions and more trainers) are solutions that I THINK will help the game gain more traction. You could call them "feed back" on what I saw and how I felt as I talked to others and started playing on my own. I think if KI did them they would actually make more money then their current methods because I feel it would draw in and help them retain more repeat customers.

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