To Attract more players...

1
AuthorMessage
Gunner's Mate
Feb 05, 2015
230
I feel in order for KI to really make pirates popular, they need to go further from the fun and childish feeling to the cool and exciting genre to attract older audiences because judging by their commercial, the game just looks kiddie despite how great the game is. This is a super cool and exciting game, but if I didn't know anything about it and just saw the commercial, I probably wouldn't play it because it appeared to "childish" even though it has a great story-line and some dark points in it.

Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
382
Ryanbold2 on Jun 25, 2016 wrote:
I feel in order for KI to really make pirates popular, they need to go further from the fun and childish feeling to the cool and exciting genre to attract older audiences because judging by their commercial, the game just looks kiddie despite how great the game is. This is a super cool and exciting game, but if I didn't know anything about it and just saw the commercial, I probably wouldn't play it because it appeared to "childish" even though it has a great story-line and some dark points in it.
I agree, they still advertise themselves as a game for kids, as the main site says.

To me it's a mistake...

Gunner's Mate
May 17, 2015
209
I strongly agree here

Before Blind Mew made the post about getting more players I had already tried to convince them to play this game but I just got comments like

"It's just a kids WoW"

"It looks to kiddie"

"the graphics are bad"

Now I did eventually persuade my closest pal to finally play the game and he really likes it, but that took 2 years of on and of persuasion

From what I have seen and heard the game isn't appealing at first, what KI needs to focus on is getting customers to actually hit the play button

Here I believe Ryan's solution has really hit the nail on the head, there are some amazing adult themes and I know so because I often show my dad certain things in the game and he loves the references (magnificent 7 is his favourite!) but this game appeals so much to the younger audience that no one would guess you could find a Godzilla reference in this game

Kids are in a sense getting older now and even they don't want games that are too kiddie

If I had to suggest what you should do to spice things up is either

A) somehow try to showcase the hilarious references in this game, I don't have a good idea for this unfortunately

B) I haven't watched terminator (the shame) but I am guessing you could relate this to the armada somehow, pulling off some sort of pirates cross terminator commercial (maybe with Eagilles getting a bit of screen time) it could show the more adult side of this game

Gunner's Mate
Feb 05, 2015
230
I also thought that if kingsisle were to make another trailer... It should be dark. Like how in the wizards trailer they showed all the cool spells against Malistaire. That was a cool commercial! I think they should have a pirate fighting one of the Armada's inner court in a dark and spooky area. It makes the game look cooler.

Ensign
Feb 19, 2010
39
SpellBinder Darius on Jun 25, 2016 wrote:
I strongly agree here

Before Blind Mew made the post about getting more players I had already tried to convince them to play this game but I just got comments like

"It's just a kids WoW"

"It looks to kiddie"

"the graphics are bad"

Now I did eventually persuade my closest pal to finally play the game and he really likes it, but that took 2 years of on and of persuasion

From what I have seen and heard the game isn't appealing at first, what KI needs to focus on is getting customers to actually hit the play button

Here I believe Ryan's solution has really hit the nail on the head, there are some amazing adult themes and I know so because I often show my dad certain things in the game and he loves the references (magnificent 7 is his favourite!) but this game appeals so much to the younger audience that no one would guess you could find a Godzilla reference in this game

Kids are in a sense getting older now and even they don't want games that are too kiddie

If I had to suggest what you should do to spice things up is either

A) somehow try to showcase the hilarious references in this game, I don't have a good idea for this unfortunately

B) I haven't watched terminator (the shame) but I am guessing you could relate this to the armada somehow, pulling off some sort of pirates cross terminator commercial (maybe with Eagilles getting a bit of screen time) it could show the more adult side of this game
Lol, now that you mentioned the terminator, imagine Kane saying at the end of Valencia, ''I'll be back''.

That would be hilarious!

(In case you don't know, ''I'll be back'' is a very popular quote in the terminator series.)

Captain
Feb 11, 2010
619
If they DID advertise it (and write it, in some spots) more mature, more maturely, for the more mature group, I guarantee there will be a boost of players. Just give it a try, KI!

Gunner's Mate
Feb 05, 2015
230
wizardrocks969 on Jun 27, 2016 wrote:
Lol, now that you mentioned the terminator, imagine Kane saying at the end of Valencia, ''I'll be back''.

That would be hilarious!

(In case you don't know, ''I'll be back'' is a very popular quote in the terminator series.)
I don't know many people who don't know what "I'll be back" is from.

Gunner's Mate
Dec 26, 2013
214
It's really a matter of aesthetics. At its core, Pirate101 is a very sound turn-based strategy combat game based on the same deck and card mechanic that was pioneered years ago by card games like Magic the Gathering - later followed by Pokémon. The game structure is basically the same for both of those games but MtG has a "dark" theme where Pokeman is "cute". What KI has done with both P101 and W101 is expand the game world into a real-time open-ended adventure that combines the aspects of a turn-based strategy game with those of a RPG and blends them all together. It's true that many adults might look at these games and the method in which they're advertised and dismiss them as being too simplistic. I almost did this myself. I kept getting ad pop-ups here and there for W101... so much that it was becoming annoying... then one day I decided, "what the heck, it's free to try it out so why not?" Am I glad I did! For games that are decidedly targeted towards a younger demographic there is a surprising amount of depth that can, and does appeal to a large number of adult players. Probably many more than most younger players realize.
I don't know that I agree with shifting the target group when it comes to ads but I could see where expanding the ads to include some older players could be beneficial. The problem is that commercial time and production isn't cheap... so the question is whether the results would justify the costs. Obviously, any ad run with the intention of getting the attention of older players would need to be run in different time-slots than the children-centric ads. Few adults are going to be watching Saturday morning cartoons unless they happen to be watching with their kids.

Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
382
TucsonWizard on Jun 27, 2016 wrote:
It's really a matter of aesthetics. At its core, Pirate101 is a very sound turn-based strategy combat game based on the same deck and card mechanic that was pioneered years ago by card games like Magic the Gathering - later followed by Pokémon. The game structure is basically the same for both of those games but MtG has a "dark" theme where Pokeman is "cute". What KI has done with both P101 and W101 is expand the game world into a real-time open-ended adventure that combines the aspects of a turn-based strategy game with those of a RPG and blends them all together. It's true that many adults might look at these games and the method in which they're advertised and dismiss them as being too simplistic. I almost did this myself. I kept getting ad pop-ups here and there for W101... so much that it was becoming annoying... then one day I decided, "what the heck, it's free to try it out so why not?" Am I glad I did! For games that are decidedly targeted towards a younger demographic there is a surprising amount of depth that can, and does appeal to a large number of adult players. Probably many more than most younger players realize.
I don't know that I agree with shifting the target group when it comes to ads but I could see where expanding the ads to include some older players could be beneficial. The problem is that commercial time and production isn't cheap... so the question is whether the results would justify the costs. Obviously, any ad run with the intention of getting the attention of older players would need to be run in different time-slots than the children-centric ads. Few adults are going to be watching Saturday morning cartoons unless they happen to be watching with their kids.
Even then... why target younger audience when your game is subscription based? Kids arent going to pull out a credit card, and if they ask their parents, most will just say it's not worth it or whatnot. After all, there are plenty of free games around.

But if KI manages to convince older audience, they might turn the tables around, and parents who enjoy the game might just make their kids play.

Gunner's Mate
Dec 26, 2013
214
Silver Angel on Jun 27, 2016 wrote:
Even then... why target younger audience when your game is subscription based? Kids arent going to pull out a credit card, and if they ask their parents, most will just say it's not worth it or whatnot. After all, there are plenty of free games around.

But if KI manages to convince older audience, they might turn the tables around, and parents who enjoy the game might just make their kids play.
LOL!! The fastest way to drive kids away from the game is for parents to "make their kids play". I know that's not what you really meant but when you look at it in that context it makes it look like a form of punishment lol.
"You're grounded little mister... you sit there and play this game and you'd better enjoy it or else!"

Gunner's Mate
Feb 05, 2015
230
Silver Angel on Jun 27, 2016 wrote:
Even then... why target younger audience when your game is subscription based? Kids arent going to pull out a credit card, and if they ask their parents, most will just say it's not worth it or whatnot. After all, there are plenty of free games around.

But if KI manages to convince older audience, they might turn the tables around, and parents who enjoy the game might just make their kids play.
I completely agree! Kids are good at begging for little things like candy and toys, but not for gaming memberships.

Teenagers and adults have their own money to use on games. They're better for making money for games.

Gunner's Mate
Feb 05, 2015
230
TucsonWizard on Jun 28, 2016 wrote:
LOL!! The fastest way to drive kids away from the game is for parents to "make their kids play". I know that's not what you really meant but when you look at it in that context it makes it look like a form of punishment lol.
"You're grounded little mister... you sit there and play this game and you'd better enjoy it or else!"
In all my years I've never actually seen a parent try to make their kid play a game that they play. If it is a little kid the kid will try it, if it's an older kid then yes, they won't try it.

Community Leader
Silver Angel on Jun 27, 2016 wrote:
Even then... why target younger audience when your game is subscription based? Kids arent going to pull out a credit card, and if they ask their parents, most will just say it's not worth it or whatnot. After all, there are plenty of free games around.

But if KI manages to convince older audience, they might turn the tables around, and parents who enjoy the game might just make their kids play.
Keep in mind the popularity of Wizard101, same subscription based type of game. Targeting younger players/families, and is extremely popular. Kids find a way there, they would find a way with pirates too.

I think KI needs to try offering some more incentives for subscription, and should perhaps open some things up, like a "Free Weekend" of unlimited (unrestricted) play for all Wizard101 players. Maybe even for everyone (not just Wiz101 players).

I think they need to stick to their youthful/family values, and not cater to the "challenge mongering" players. The game must be fun, not difficult, not frustrating (even if that's fun for "some" people).

They need to get people into the game to try it. The more that try, the more that will buy.

In some of the posts I hear about it being a kiddie game, or the graphics aren't good, etc.
These are 2 of my personal favorite parts of KI games!

Getting more people to try it, and communicating with the players I think would be most helpful. Players like companies that work with them, and keep them "in the know". I know a lot of people that stopped paying/playing because of the lack of communication and the stagnant progress. That's just how it is.

Love the game, hope things improve.

Dr Zeppers (aka Silent Sam Stern)
Piratey parodies I like to make.
I be a crazy pirate for goodness sake!
Artist & Admin of Skull Island TV
Gunner's Mate
Feb 05, 2015
230
Dr Zeppers on Jun 29, 2016 wrote:
Keep in mind the popularity of Wizard101, same subscription based type of game. Targeting younger players/families, and is extremely popular. Kids find a way there, they would find a way with pirates too.

I think KI needs to try offering some more incentives for subscription, and should perhaps open some things up, like a "Free Weekend" of unlimited (unrestricted) play for all Wizard101 players. Maybe even for everyone (not just Wiz101 players).

I think they need to stick to their youthful/family values, and not cater to the "challenge mongering" players. The game must be fun, not difficult, not frustrating (even if that's fun for "some" people).

They need to get people into the game to try it. The more that try, the more that will buy.

In some of the posts I hear about it being a kiddie game, or the graphics aren't good, etc.
These are 2 of my personal favorite parts of KI games!

Getting more people to try it, and communicating with the players I think would be most helpful. Players like companies that work with them, and keep them "in the know". I know a lot of people that stopped paying/playing because of the lack of communication and the stagnant progress. That's just how it is.

Love the game, hope things improve.
It's hard to promote players because people think the game is kiddie! Making the game look "cooler" will also make it easier to convince friends to play the game.

The lack of communication was a big factor in the decline of players, no doubt about it. I'm not saying make the game look to mature for kids. Just make it look well-rounded that all age groups can enjoy. Obviously the game is well-rounded, but it really doesn't look well-rounded at first sight.

Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
382
Dr Zeppers on Jun 29, 2016 wrote:
Keep in mind the popularity of Wizard101, same subscription based type of game. Targeting younger players/families, and is extremely popular. Kids find a way there, they would find a way with pirates too.

I think KI needs to try offering some more incentives for subscription, and should perhaps open some things up, like a "Free Weekend" of unlimited (unrestricted) play for all Wizard101 players. Maybe even for everyone (not just Wiz101 players).

I think they need to stick to their youthful/family values, and not cater to the "challenge mongering" players. The game must be fun, not difficult, not frustrating (even if that's fun for "some" people).

They need to get people into the game to try it. The more that try, the more that will buy.

In some of the posts I hear about it being a kiddie game, or the graphics aren't good, etc.
These are 2 of my personal favorite parts of KI games!

Getting more people to try it, and communicating with the players I think would be most helpful. Players like companies that work with them, and keep them "in the know". I know a lot of people that stopped paying/playing because of the lack of communication and the stagnant progress. That's just how it is.

Love the game, hope things improve.
You certainly make a valid point regarding communication... KI definitely needs to improve in that area.

Admiral
Jul 07, 2013
1124
Dr Zeppers on Jun 29, 2016 wrote:
Keep in mind the popularity of Wizard101, same subscription based type of game. Targeting younger players/families, and is extremely popular. Kids find a way there, they would find a way with pirates too.

I think KI needs to try offering some more incentives for subscription, and should perhaps open some things up, like a "Free Weekend" of unlimited (unrestricted) play for all Wizard101 players. Maybe even for everyone (not just Wiz101 players).

I think they need to stick to their youthful/family values, and not cater to the "challenge mongering" players. The game must be fun, not difficult, not frustrating (even if that's fun for "some" people).

They need to get people into the game to try it. The more that try, the more that will buy.

In some of the posts I hear about it being a kiddie game, or the graphics aren't good, etc.
These are 2 of my personal favorite parts of KI games!

Getting more people to try it, and communicating with the players I think would be most helpful. Players like companies that work with them, and keep them "in the know". I know a lot of people that stopped paying/playing because of the lack of communication and the stagnant progress. That's just how it is.

Love the game, hope things improve.
This "challenge mongering" player realizes that the game must be fun and exciting but if its a pushover kids will get bored with that too. Balance is a good thing and learning how to tackle some tough problems is an important life skill that is good for young people to learn. The game needs to have both fun and challenging battles. I personally love playing a game that has an engaging and fun story line.

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Gunner's Mate
Dec 26, 2013
214
DuranteRamses87 on Jun 30, 2016 wrote:
This "challenge mongering" player realizes that the game must be fun and exciting but if its a pushover kids will get bored with that too. Balance is a good thing and learning how to tackle some tough problems is an important life skill that is good for young people to learn. The game needs to have both fun and challenging battles. I personally love playing a game that has an engaging and fun story line.

Virtuous Dante Ramsey
Years of reading both the W101 and P101 forums has convinced me that KI will never achieve true balance because, in this case, balance is subjective. There are too many varying opinions... one person's "that's too OP" is another person's "that needs to be boosted". This is due, in large part, to the number of younger players. There was a time when a video game was released - you played it - and you either liked it or you didn't. There was no such thing as a forum in which to offer suggestions for improvements or feedback on in-game glitches etc. You made do with what you had and worked with the tools within the system to accomplish things. If something "wasn't powerful enough" then it was up to you to determine alternate methods. This sometimes meant replaying scenario after scenario until you got it done. Now, if someone tries Tower of Moo twice and doesn't get the drop they want they immediately want the developers to change the game so it's easier for them.
I'm right there with you Durante... the bigger the challenge the better the game playing experience. Waltzing through battle after battle with virtually no opposition gets old very quickly. I want to feel like I've accomplished something. I want to walk out of the battle with a nearly empty health globe and a couple of bed-resting companions. Wading through the competition like a hot cutlass through butter is like cheating at Solitaire. It's a win but it's a shallow win.
So yes, this is a game "for kids" but it has so much going for it that can appeal to older audiences. With the proper marketing I think targeting an older demographic could be a win-win for KI.

Ensign
Jan 14, 2013
25
I agree as well... This is a really fun game and really worth the cost of the chapters but the commercial looks terrible but to be honest, they never show the pirate101 commercial near as much as they show the wizard101 commercial, I remember evertime I seen this commercial, it was rare. Now I never see it. It's been years in fact since I have seen it, Youtube is the one place they really have it up at.

Gunner's Mate
Dec 26, 2013
214
Ryanbold2 on Jun 29, 2016 wrote:
In all my years I've never actually seen a parent try to make their kid play a game that they play. If it is a little kid the kid will try it, if it's an older kid then yes, they won't try it.
You should spend some time at a Little League game. Usually you can tell there's at least one kid who's playing because his dad thinks he's going to be the next Derek Jeter. That kid would rather be doing anything else than standing in the field waiting for someone to hit the ball in his direction.

Gunner's Mate
Feb 05, 2015
230
TucsonWizard on Jul 12, 2016 wrote:
You should spend some time at a Little League game. Usually you can tell there's at least one kid who's playing because his dad thinks he's going to be the next Derek Jeter. That kid would rather be doing anything else than standing in the field waiting for someone to hit the ball in his direction.
I should rephrase that... In all my years I've never seen a parent try to make their child play a VIDEO game that they play. I've been in that parent sports thing and I hated it. I mean video game/ computer games.

Admiral
May 30, 2010
1113
Ryanbold2 on Jun 29, 2016 wrote:
It's hard to promote players because people think the game is kiddie! Making the game look "cooler" will also make it easier to convince friends to play the game.

The lack of communication was a big factor in the decline of players, no doubt about it. I'm not saying make the game look to mature for kids. Just make it look well-rounded that all age groups can enjoy. Obviously the game is well-rounded, but it really doesn't look well-rounded at first sight.
How would you make it look "cooler" then? What would you change to boost the game's cool factor?

Ensign
Feb 08, 2012
18
Dr Zeppers on Jun 29, 2016 wrote:
Keep in mind the popularity of Wizard101, same subscription based type of game. Targeting younger players/families, and is extremely popular. Kids find a way there, they would find a way with pirates too.

I think KI needs to try offering some more incentives for subscription, and should perhaps open some things up, like a "Free Weekend" of unlimited (unrestricted) play for all Wizard101 players. Maybe even for everyone (not just Wiz101 players).

I think they need to stick to their youthful/family values, and not cater to the "challenge mongering" players. The game must be fun, not difficult, not frustrating (even if that's fun for "some" people).

They need to get people into the game to try it. The more that try, the more that will buy.

In some of the posts I hear about it being a kiddie game, or the graphics aren't good, etc.
These are 2 of my personal favorite parts of KI games!

Getting more people to try it, and communicating with the players I think would be most helpful. Players like companies that work with them, and keep them "in the know". I know a lot of people that stopped paying/playing because of the lack of communication and the stagnant progress. That's just how it is.

Love the game, hope things improve.
While this is true, Pirate101 has delved much deeper into the realms of dark themes, where bosses say they'll cut your head off and some such. An example of this is in the quest V for Vulpine, where a certain Fox Radical says to kill us and our entire crew, save for Bonnie Anne. I think they need to advertise those dark themes, instead of the Wizard101 style, where everything is mostly kid-oriented (save for Xibalba).

Gunner's Mate
Oct 22, 2011
210
I completely disagree.

Games are seriously lacking in great fun and engaging storylines these days. Not every game needs to be so challenging as both P101 and W101 are pointing towards. ALL of my friends on both games are basically GONE. Ended their subscriptions and left. Why? Because the vocal minority wanted more and more challenge to the point where the average player (who loves questing and a good storyline) have been overrun by ridiculous dungeons, super bad RNG, no-trade off-school gear and so much 'challenge' that they quit.

The animation is not 'kiddie'. It's just a graphic. Not every game needs to be super detailed and gritty. W101 and P101 are engaging, magical and fun.

This game needs to be STORY-driven, not CHALLENGE-driven !!!!!

The challenge mongers will leave because they are bored or burned out from all those dungeons and/or farming. That leaves the dedicated average player who is now stuck or frustrated because KI catered to the vocal minority, instead of trying to find a good balance which made both games so incredibly fun and engaging in the first place.

To attract more players, there needs to be INCENTIVES. This is what will bring people in to try the game regardless of graphics or super challenges.

Gunner's Mate
Dec 26, 2013
214
BrynnerOfReign on Aug 10, 2016 wrote:
I completely disagree.

Games are seriously lacking in great fun and engaging storylines these days. Not every game needs to be so challenging as both P101 and W101 are pointing towards. ALL of my friends on both games are basically GONE. Ended their subscriptions and left. Why? Because the vocal minority wanted more and more challenge to the point where the average player (who loves questing and a good storyline) have been overrun by ridiculous dungeons, super bad RNG, no-trade off-school gear and so much 'challenge' that they quit.

The animation is not 'kiddie'. It's just a graphic. Not every game needs to be super detailed and gritty. W101 and P101 are engaging, magical and fun.

This game needs to be STORY-driven, not CHALLENGE-driven !!!!!

The challenge mongers will leave because they are bored or burned out from all those dungeons and/or farming. That leaves the dedicated average player who is now stuck or frustrated because KI catered to the vocal minority, instead of trying to find a good balance which made both games so incredibly fun and engaging in the first place.

To attract more players, there needs to be INCENTIVES. This is what will bring people in to try the game regardless of graphics or super challenges.
I can relate to your points on INCENTIVES. The reward is the driving force for most games. But it's also necessary to increase the difficulty as one progresses through the game. Level after level of the same old thing is not going to keep players playing for very long. Story is important as well but if the end result of every story line is more of the same uninspired battles, rinse and repeat, things get boring pretty quickly. The level of difficulty seems to be the point of most contention and this is largely subjective due to the countless available strategies (or lack of it).
In my opinion the graphics are the least concern. Take a look at a hugely popular game like Minecraft. It has the most rudimentary graphics imaginable and virtually no story line. I haven't played for a while so some of this might have changed but the main objective was simple survival. Run your little blocky guy around gathering blocky resources to build a blocky thing, avoid the blocky monsters, dig a blocky tunnel, mine some blocky ore etc. Simplicity defined but hugely entertaining on a base level.
I don't consider myself a challenge monger but I definitely want challenge in my gaming. If I sailed into Mooshu and stepped off my ship to fight another batch of Troggies and Wharf Rats, I would have quit this game long ago.

Gunner's Mate
Oct 22, 2011
210
TucsonWizard on Aug 10, 2016 wrote:
I can relate to your points on INCENTIVES. The reward is the driving force for most games. But it's also necessary to increase the difficulty as one progresses through the game. Level after level of the same old thing is not going to keep players playing for very long. Story is important as well but if the end result of every story line is more of the same uninspired battles, rinse and repeat, things get boring pretty quickly. The level of difficulty seems to be the point of most contention and this is largely subjective due to the countless available strategies (or lack of it).
In my opinion the graphics are the least concern. Take a look at a hugely popular game like Minecraft. It has the most rudimentary graphics imaginable and virtually no story line. I haven't played for a while so some of this might have changed but the main objective was simple survival. Run your little blocky guy around gathering blocky resources to build a blocky thing, avoid the blocky monsters, dig a blocky tunnel, mine some blocky ore etc. Simplicity defined but hugely entertaining on a base level.
I don't consider myself a challenge monger but I definitely want challenge in my gaming. If I sailed into Mooshu and stepped off my ship to fight another batch of Troggies and Wharf Rats, I would have quit this game long ago.
There is a difference between difficulty and challenge. Sure, as a game levels up, it should get a little more difficult, just as your character gains better gear to fight the more difficult game characters. Not everything needs to be the same level of Candyland - but it also doesn't need the mega cheating, hardcore challenge that will turn people away from the game

People want to quest. They want to have fun, not have a second job trying to get through a boss/dungeon that you must have 4 (mostly incompetent) players that are next to impossible to complete. Then you have players that leave in the middle of it, because they got what they need, without consideration of the other players in the dungeon. Not only that, but it's the only place you can get gear to advance in the game. Not only that, but the RNG is so bad, it can take you hundreds of times just to get one piece. Not only that, you're up against mega cheating bosses with mega health and attacks that just won't let up. Get better gear? Well, it's hard to do when the dungeon you're farming is the only place to get it and you can't seem to get the gear.

The high-level companion quests. I cringe every time I think about them. I have not been able to complete ONE of them yet. Why? Because my companion keeps dying, plus any other companions allowed in the fight, plus myself. When I try it again, it brings back the companion ... wounded. So, it's better to wait until the next day to try and finish the fights. It's too much for just a companion quest. I'm here to have fun and do my quests. I shouldn't have to have a doctorate just to figure out what to do next or find a workaround.

There are so many options as to where to take this game. Hardcore challenge mongering is not one of them.

1