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Thoughts on new ranks for epic talents?

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AuthorMessage
Developer
I have a little bit of extra design time on my hands...

Anybody want to give a little pre-feedback on ranks 4 and 5 before I get started?

Captain
Feb 11, 2010
629
Rank 4 should add a 10% damage boost when the epic activates (excluding non-damaging talents/epics).

Rank 5 epic should increase whatever debuff the Rank 3 epic has, such as an accuracy debuff, by either 15 or 25%.

If Rank 6 does come, the only thing that should change is that it can activate up to 5 times instead of 3.

Ensign
Mar 17, 2012
1
Hmm, ranks four and five of Eipcs...
Burst Fire / Relentless / Mojo Echo rank 4: 35%+ chance of gaining extra chance to hit, +5% chance to activate every time the epic activates, activates up to three times
Riposte / Return Fire / Counterspell rank 4: Bonus sneak attack when enemy misses, +25% damage and 15 dodge, activates up to three times
Vengeance Strike / True Grit / Retribution rank 4: Bonus sneak attack when enemy hits, 35%+ chance to stun, and gives +5% HP back, activates up to three times
Repel Boarders / Overwatch / Readied Spell rank 4: Bonus attack when enemy comes in to range, -50% accuracy and -25% damage, activates up to three times
Hold the Line rank 4: immobilize up to 3 enemies. -50% dodge and -25% accuracy
First Strike / Quick Draw / Intuition rank 4: bonus attack before enemy attacks. -25% damage to enemy, +25% damage (for epic), and activates up to three times.
Witch Hunter rank 4: bonus magical attack before enemy attack. +25% spell power (for epic), boost resistance for caster and -50% damage to enemy
Eh, these ideas I have are probably too powerful

Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
161
Witch Hunter Rank 4/5, lets bring back the old school one! LUL Sorry Quentin, but I want to see it give not only the bonus resistance from the Rank 3 but also a reduce to the enemies mojo power, OR!
For a more serious, balanced version, make it give the person who has the Witch Hunter +X% Spell Power! O:

Relentless/Burst Fire/Mojo Echo Rank 4/5 - Please keep it at +3 hits only and give it an additional effect like, leaves bleeding damage? Has a 50% chance not to trigger epics! Now that would be funny, annoying in some cases, but funny and helpful!

Overwatch/Repel Boarders/Readied Spell Rank 4/5 - reduces the enemy accuracy and increases the OV4/5 users damage by X% (X's btw are for you to decide for balancing purposes)

Flanking/Crossfire/Cross Spell? Rank 4/5 - Alongside the reduce movement it gives, how about it also reduces the enemies damage alongside it?

Second Chance/Quick Adjust/Whatever Witch's is - Lets make this a bit more useful considering a lot of close to top tier companions have this but it's not really good at more then rank 1 atm. I believe it should not only give a bonus to accuracy but also critical! This way (Specifically the Presidio Crab) can not only abuse the ability to like never miss but get off a bladestorm chain. This will make a lot of companions more powerful and helpful!

Bladestorm/Double Tap/Mojo Rising Rank 4/5 - This one IDK what to do.

Cheap Shot Line - Make it 100% chance to immobolize units ezpz on how to make this usable and stronger all at once.

Dread Pirate
Jun 13, 2011
2037
Ratbeard on Jul 27, 2016 wrote:
I have a little bit of extra design time on my hands...

Anybody want to give a little pre-feedback on ranks 4 and 5 before I get started?
Hmm... This is quite the question.

Well, I guess I got a couple o' thoughts on new Rank 4 Epics. New Rank 5 Epics thoughts to come.

First Strike 4: Strike before attackers, +35% attack power, 3X per round.
Overwatch 4: Bonus attack when enemies approach 3X, greater Dodge reduction, +10% Weapon Power.
Burst Fire 4: Bonus attack if hit, increased % vs wounded enemies 3X per round.
Double Tap 4: Bonus ranged sneak attack when crit or defeat enemy, +15% Weapon Power, 3X per round.
Blade Storm 4: Bonus sneak attack 3X when enemy is defeated, +15% Weapon Power.
Counterspell 4: Bonus magic attack 3X if enemy misses, +25% dodge, +10% Weapon Power.
Mojo Blast 4: Basic attacks at a larger area, +15% damage power, +5% Spell Power for 2 rounds.
Second Chance 4: Bonus melee attack 3X if attacker misses, +25% accuracy, +10% Weapon Power.
Hold the Line 4: Halt up to 3 enemies moving to adjacent square, -50% Dodge, -25% Accuracy to enemies.
Turn the Tide 4: +35% Weapon Power, Accuracy, & Dodge below -50% Health.
Repel Boarders 4: Bonus melee attack 3X when enemies are in range, -50% accuracy, -25% Dodge to enemies.
Riposte 4: Bonus melee attack 3X if enemy misses, +25% dodge, +15% Weapon Power.
Return Fire 4: Bonus attack 3X, increased Dodge & +10% Weapon Power when enemy misses.
Vengeance Strike 4: Bonus melee attack 3 times per round, stun enemies, 10% Damage boost.
Quick Adjust 4: Bonus ranged attack if missed, +25% accuracy, +10% Weapon Power.
Elusive 4: +50% Dodge, +25% Accuracy, 3 movement range at below 50% Health.
Pirate 4: +35% Weapon Power, +50% Accuracy on enemy ships.
Witch Hunter 4: Bonus attack if enemy uses magic, -60% Weapon Power to enemies, upped bonus Mojo Resist to caster.

Those are my suggestions presently. I'll have more soon.

Lieutenant
Oct 11, 2012
108
Does this mean that more chains will activate with new ranks on Epic Talents ?

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9755
I want to be able to Jump over barricades again, not just PVP but also PVE. I don't know what happened with the patch that adjusted the Moo Robes, but directly after that, I wasn't able to "jump" a barricade in PVP and I soon noticed that I can't jump a friendly barricade in PVE. It's so annoying when a musketeer team mate raises a barricade right in my path to an enemy - I either get completely stopped or I run around the obstacle. This has affected my companions with the Jump talent, too.
I would also like to be able at higher ranks of this talent to jump traps.

Gunner's Mate
Dec 16, 2009
212
It of course depends on the talent.

Relentless/Burst/Echo 4: Additional 20% damage on each hit

Repel/Overwatch/Readied 4: 35% Chance to reduce the rank of all opponents epics by 1 on hit

Cheap/Parting/Cowards 4: -50% armor/resist for 1 round on hit

First/Quick/Intuition 4: Reduce Weapon power 25% for 1 round on hit

Vengeance/Grit/Retribution 4: 35% chance to remove a buff from opponent on hit

Riposte/Return Fire/Counter Spell: Increase Critical Chance 15% on dodge

Flanking/Crossfire/Doomspell: 35% chance to charm opponent for 1 round

Second Chance/Quick Adjust/ Jobu's Ruse: 35% chance to aoe hit on miss

Ensign
Oct 11, 2008
1
Honestly, I don't think there's going to be a generic answer. I'd say rank 5 should probably add another proc to use each turn. My rank 4 suggestions (listing melee epics):

Blade Storm: adding a bit of Crit/[Primary Stat] upon use
Riposte/Repel Boarders/Cheap Shot: Make Sneak attacks (Don't think they are atm)
Relentless: Possibly a bit of armor/MR shred?
First Strike.. hmm...Can't help here.
Vengeance Strike: adding some Armor/MR upon use would be lovely
Witch Hunter: Actually effecting spooky hits (i.e. lowering spell power) would be great.
Second Chance. Honestly not sure anyone uses past rank 2, but a bit more damage?
Flanking: (EDIT: really like the bleed idea for relentless above, feel like it's better placed here though.)

Oh and improved mojo blast 4... just add some more squares/damage (Not both in one rank D:)

Developer
I don't think increasing the number of activations is on the table. Three is plenty.

Admiral
Jun 02, 2013
1465
So I'm going to suggest my ideas using just the melee names for epics

Relentless4:20% chance to make enemy bleed with each hit
Relentless5:5% chance to start a reckless frenzy sort of attack for all weaponary and classes

Repel Boarders4: decrease enemy crit chance by 10%
Repel Boarders5: 20% chance to knock the enemy back, can only activate once a turn

Dread Pirate
May 27, 2009
1884
My thought is that I don't particularly want to increase hit chances per turn, because some of these Epic Chains seem to go on ad infinitum. I'd like to see something that would maybe pre-empt any return Epic attack (i.e., stun opponent) and put an end to the chaining so I'd get another turn rather than pick up my knitting because Bonnie Anne was trading shots with the enemy all day long.

Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
382
I'd like to see epics that do not currently do full damage actually do it on rank 4.

Generally speaking, additional effects should be improved slightly on rank 4 and even more on rank 5, whether it is % or duration.

On a side note, if this ever come out, I hope companions will be able to learn more epics? As it stands only a handful could even learn those rank 4/5 and still be effective.

Lieutenant
Oct 26, 2013
112
If this is implemented i would like to see promotions that occur in newer worlds give 3-4 epics instead of one to two. and rank 4 and 5 should only be available in the second story arc (i assume since kane is not in control of the armada and doesn't have a physical body that we know of that we are starting the second story arc). Thanks for all your hard work

Lieutenant
Feb 02, 2013
119
Ratbeard on Jul 27, 2016 wrote:
I have a little bit of extra design time on my hands...

Anybody want to give a little pre-feedback on ranks 4 and 5 before I get started?
it's finally happening!! Oh how I have waited for this time to come. I had my own thread on this awhile back, but I might as well start from scratch just for the fun of it(and rank 5? Oh my this is going to get good) For now, I guess I should focus on the weaker epics to try and make them more utilized in PvP(well companion picks anyways), simply because I have no doubt relentless, bladestorm, first strike, veng, etc. will be good picks regardless.

Flanking/Crossfire/Doomspell 4/5: at the moment, the reduced movement speed hardly does anything(and my buckler actually has flanking 3, so he would know), so I think it needs something to allows users to have more efficient chains. Something like Increasing your base critical chance by X% for a turn, reducing their critical chance by X%, etc.(p.s make doomspell available for at least the player witchdoctors)

Cheap shot/Parting/coward's bane 4/5: Increase the chances of immobilizing, make it a guaranteed attack(similar to glancing blow), or give it an X% chance to stun(to increase the cheapness of the shot >:D)

Repel Boarders/Overwatch/Readied Spell 4/5: I'm going to steal this one from my old thread. Basically these epics can attack hidden users(but it does NOT break the hidden), and has an X%(Whatever RatBeard wants to use at first) chance to knock opponents back by 1 block.

Hold the Line 4/5(?): I want to think here... I'm feeling like it would be a debuff to fit the theme(leaving the target vulnerable for one turn so you can try to finish them off). The only thing I have is having opponents be stunned if they get hit by HtL, or increase the potency of the dodge drop to 75% or even 100%. Hopefully someone will have a more unique idea here, but that is what I have got.

P.s, I have notice Return Fire, unlike Riposte and Counterspell, is not a sneak attack, is there any reason for this or is this a bug?

Developer
Stormy Sam Templet... on Jul 28, 2016 wrote:
it's finally happening!! Oh how I have waited for this time to come. I had my own thread on this awhile back, but I might as well start from scratch just for the fun of it(and rank 5? Oh my this is going to get good) For now, I guess I should focus on the weaker epics to try and make them more utilized in PvP(well companion picks anyways), simply because I have no doubt relentless, bladestorm, first strike, veng, etc. will be good picks regardless.

Flanking/Crossfire/Doomspell 4/5: at the moment, the reduced movement speed hardly does anything(and my buckler actually has flanking 3, so he would know), so I think it needs something to allows users to have more efficient chains. Something like Increasing your base critical chance by X% for a turn, reducing their critical chance by X%, etc.(p.s make doomspell available for at least the player witchdoctors)

Cheap shot/Parting/coward's bane 4/5: Increase the chances of immobilizing, make it a guaranteed attack(similar to glancing blow), or give it an X% chance to stun(to increase the cheapness of the shot >:D)

Repel Boarders/Overwatch/Readied Spell 4/5: I'm going to steal this one from my old thread. Basically these epics can attack hidden users(but it does NOT break the hidden), and has an X%(Whatever RatBeard wants to use at first) chance to knock opponents back by 1 block.

Hold the Line 4/5(?): I want to think here... I'm feeling like it would be a debuff to fit the theme(leaving the target vulnerable for one turn so you can try to finish them off). The only thing I have is having opponents be stunned if they get hit by HtL, or increase the potency of the dodge drop to 75% or even 100%. Hopefully someone will have a more unique idea here, but that is what I have got.

P.s, I have notice Return Fire, unlike Riposte and Counterspell, is not a sneak attack, is there any reason for this or is this a bug?
P.s, I have notice Return Fire, unlike Riposte and Counterspell, is not a sneak attack, is there any reason for this or is this a bug?

Looking at the talent descriptions, none of them appear to be sneak attacks. Before I dig deeper, would you mind explaining why you think they are?

On a side note, if this ever come out, I hope companions will be able to learn more epics? As it stands only a handful could even learn those rank 4/5 and still be effective.

At the moment, the intent is to expand the ranks due to the amount of player equipment/pets that add bonus ranks. I'd like to see them count for something. I don't plan to make any of the additional ranks trainable (yet), but players (via equipment) and companions (via epic talent buff spells) may be able to access the higher ranks.

Rank 4 is likely to be something fairly simple and pedestrian (like an improved crit chance) and Rank 5 is where the scope of the talents might stretch into new and interesting directions.

I'd like to see something that would maybe pre-empt any return Epic attack (i.e., stun opponent) and put an end to the chaining.

I hear you. That's probably the main driver against additional uses/turn. There's already a few talents that try to do this in different ways-- stunning, hidden attacks-- and while I like the idea, I don't want it to edge out more interesting (and new) suggestions. But it's on the table.

I should also mention that a revision of Return Fire is on the table since it's proven to be such a rump talent.

Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
382
Just throwing some ideas, regardless of rank:

Hold the line: I'd love to see it affect a larger area, as in it would stop enemies from farther away, maybe 2 tiles at rank 4 and 3 tiles at rank 5? Of course it should still work from 1 tile away too.

Riposte and the likes: Increases dodge AND accuracy or critical chance, after all, when you dodge you are in a position to hit back harder or more accurately.

Overwatch & Redied spell (not repel boarder): % chance to immobilize, I always though ranged companions/pirates should have a way to stop or at least slow down opponents. Knockback from post above is a good idea too.

Second chance and the likes: I'm also of a mind the current rank 3 bonus is rather worthless, in fact it makes the epic more useless when it triggers, because you're less likely to miss once the accuracy buff kicks in... maybe if the buff would last 2 or 3 turns instead of one, it might be worth it.

Edit: Double tap & Mojo rising: Increased range.

Lieutenant
Feb 02, 2013
119
Ratbeard on Jul 28, 2016 wrote:
P.s, I have notice Return Fire, unlike Riposte and Counterspell, is not a sneak attack, is there any reason for this or is this a bug?

Looking at the talent descriptions, none of them appear to be sneak attacks. Before I dig deeper, would you mind explaining why you think they are?

On a side note, if this ever come out, I hope companions will be able to learn more epics? As it stands only a handful could even learn those rank 4/5 and still be effective.

At the moment, the intent is to expand the ranks due to the amount of player equipment/pets that add bonus ranks. I'd like to see them count for something. I don't plan to make any of the additional ranks trainable (yet), but players (via equipment) and companions (via epic talent buff spells) may be able to access the higher ranks.

Rank 4 is likely to be something fairly simple and pedestrian (like an improved crit chance) and Rank 5 is where the scope of the talents might stretch into new and interesting directions.

I'd like to see something that would maybe pre-empt any return Epic attack (i.e., stun opponent) and put an end to the chaining.

I hear you. That's probably the main driver against additional uses/turn. There's already a few talents that try to do this in different ways-- stunning, hidden attacks-- and while I like the idea, I don't want it to edge out more interesting (and new) suggestions. But it's on the table.

I should also mention that a revision of Return Fire is on the table since it's proven to be such a rump talent.
Oh, that was from a long time ago. My mistake, carry on .

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2743
Ok, might as well take a crack at this...sounds fun!!

In a nutshell I think that Rank 4 versions of Epics should provide a complimentary effect to what Rank 3 does. If Rank 3 affects the "owner", then Rank 4 should affect the "recipient" or provide opposite type of effect. The new Rank buff/de-buff should make some sense based upon what the Epic does.

For Rank 5's, a new "mechanic" or "tweaking/complimenting of an old one", could be in order & lots of fun to design/program. Of course it has to work in both PvP/PvE & shouldn't be too "OP" or raise a ruckus (uh...good luck with that one RB!)

So here's what I came up with. I even decided to give the Epic "pairings" a catch phrase & the new Rank 5 "mechanics/tweaks" cute, little names-- well, because it seemed the right thing to do & loads of fun!

Repel Boarders/Overwatch/Readied Spell ("I see you coming. I'm prepared. Ok, I warned you!")
Rank 3~ -50% Acc
New to Rank 4~ +25% Armor/Resist
Rank 5 Mechanic~ "Crowd Control/Collateral Damage"
Description~ Adds team absorb to adjacent allies. Adds bonus sneak attack to all enemies withing weapon range. Provides 1 rd collateral damage to all targeted enemies.

Vengeance/Grit/Retribution ("Turn the other cheek...seriously? Yeahhh...riiiiiight!")

R3~ Bonus sneak attack (VS, may stun)
New at R4~ +25% damage ("hit me & I'll hit you harder")
R5 Mech.~ "Reprisal"
Desc.~ Adds Follow Through/Re Engage (new)/Shadow Chase (new) strike w/ +50% to Primary Attrib.

Relentless/Burst/Echo ("I'm not quite done yet!")

R3~ x3 per round (increased % vs. wounded)
R4~ -25% Arm./Res.
R5 Mech.~ "Berserk"
Desc~ May stun, -25% Dodge & Arm/Resist

Blade Storm/DT/MJ ("YEEESSS!!" and/or "NOOOOO!!")

R3- Adds bonus sneak attack x3
R4~ -10% target Crit. Chance
R5 Mech.~ "Inspire"
Desc.~ Team (adjacent only) +10% Crit/+50% Primary Stat (1 rd)

First Strike/QD/Intuition ("Me First!")

R3~ Spot Sneak att., +25% dam.
R4~ -25% dodge
R5 Mech.~ "Mongoose"
Desc~ -25% Arm/Resist +25% Arm/Dodge

(continued....)

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2743
(...continual)

Cheap Shot/Parting Shot/Coward's Bane ("Thanks for coming, here's your parting gift!")

R3~ Bonus disengage attack, may immobolize
R4~ +10% Crit chance
R5 Mech~ "Linger"
Desc~ -25% Armor/Resist/Dodge, Adds 2 rounds of "Lingering" damage

Riposte/Return Fire/Counterspell ("Missed me, missed me...now you gotta FACE THE FURY!!")

R3~ Bonus attack upon miss, +15 Dodge(?) (Change to +25% Accuracy?)
R4~ -25% to Accuracy
R5 Mech~ "Hypnotize/Subdue"
Desc~ 35% chance to stun, decreased movement, -25% Primary Stat

Flanking/Crossfire/Doomspell *Add Doomspell but change to Doomsnare ("Hungry..how about a damage sandwich?")

R3~ Bonus melee sneak attack, slows enemy
R4~ -25% Damage
R5 Mech~ "Bullseye"
Desc~ -25% target's Dodge/Armor, +25% damage to all allies adjacent to enemy/target

*Still working on other Epics

Disclaimer-- I am not a developer. I have no programming skills-- though I can deftly turn my PC both on and off (monitor does trick me at times). In no way(s), do I qualify to give any programming advice/suggestions. I'll probably never possess the skills it takes to program/develop/encode....but for this one day, "I dreamed a dream!"
Honestly, it's pretty cool of a developer to even flat out ask for suggestions from the players-- so KUDOS-2-U, RB.

Petty Officer
Dec 31, 2009
61
While you have a few spare minutes, do you mind running across the hall and teaching the wizard101 pvp developers how to elicit and use feedback from their customers?

Thanks!

Captain
Mar 24, 2013
732
This is an interesting trend, although there is no specific class for this epic talents here a few idea.

Melee type- Rank 5- relentless 4
Rank 5- reposite 4
Rank 5- retribution, a heavy damaging talent if attacked first by a target, plus it got a 20 % stun chance to the target

Rank 5-counter strike, it have a 30 % chance to counter first strike,flanking,cheap shoot and repeal boarders

Moving on to the next rank for Melee

Rank 6- ruthless charge, a heavy damaging attack to a group of target, also may push them away
Rank 6- vengeance rage, a buff that doubles your teams physical defense and attack, may trigger vengeance strike chain a 15 % chance, if hit by the target first.
Rank 6- counter strike 2
Rank 6- rage of Ares, may stun a group a target 20 % chance, while lowering thire physical defense,gives your team to strike first when used. ( Warning this talent make your character shout so you may want to lower the volume (sound ) of the computer/tablet )

For next time I would list long range talent. ( I feel like going to tavern with friends, and grab a bottle of yum or 5 )

Developer
Jasmine3429 on Jul 29, 2016 wrote:
While you have a few spare minutes, do you mind running across the hall and teaching the wizard101 pvp developers how to elicit and use feedback from their customers?

Thanks!
It's an elective at the end of my Applied Sarcasm lecture series.

Lieutenant
May 09, 2013
157
Alright! I like the way things are headed!

Since you mentioned how return fire could be possibly revised, could flanking, doomspell, and crossfire 3 be considered as well? Reducing your opponent's speed for one round is not very helpful when you have to be adjacent to trigger the effect in the first place. Speed debuffs are really only effective with maelstorm and widow's touch since those have a long range. My suggestion would be to let the class of both the flanker and the 'helper,' per say, be irrelevant. So a musketeer could use a privateer to activate crossfire and a buckler could use Old Scratch to trigger flanking.

Alternatively, if these epics must stay, I have ideas for rank 4 and 5:

Rank 4 - 'Chances are based off speed.' In other words, your ability to critical or activate relentless vengeance stun, etc is based off of your speed compared to your target's speed. Since flanking reduces speed already, this automatically gives the flanking player a nice advantage.

Rank 5 - 'grants sneaky sneaky 3.' First of all, this would be for one turn. Second of all, I don't think this is by any means overpowered. It would take five epics just to get this, so it's a huge commitment. Additionally, the flanker could not proc this every turn without using the 2x bonus on a flanking attack, which is less than 1x damage, thus making the extra damage underwhelming. Finally, a player by themselves would be unable to proc this ability, so it has little late game value in PvP.

I'll be thinking of an idea for return fire...

Ensign
Jun 12, 2016
44
I'd have to agree with Ratbeard on how 3 epic talent ranks are enough. I mean, it's already enough, you don't want battles to be overly long cut scenes, now do you?

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