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Bed Rest Concerns

AuthorMessage
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10580
I have liked Advanced Companions from the beginning. I never had any problems with a defeated companion going on "Bed Rest", I simply used another companion. That's why we recruit so many companions. If it were possible to go completely through this game with only 3, then we would recruit only 3.
How boring that would be! How wonderful P101's companion system is!
I have played many new pirates under this option and I prefer it to the old system of % chance. Now, I'm concerned that this wonderful system may be nerfed or removed, because of some recent complaints from players who are having difficulty with keeping their "favored" team from going on bed rest and the expense of reviving them from Miracle Mitch.
I'm asking that the Developers (especially Ratbeard) defend Advanced Companions system from anyone who wants to scrap it.
A tutorial about bed rest would be a better option.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 04, 2018
268
anecorbie on Feb 24, 2021 wrote:
I have liked Advanced Companions from the beginning. I never had any problems with a defeated companion going on "Bed Rest", I simply used another companion. That's why we recruit so many companions. If it were possible to go completely through this game with only 3, then we would recruit only 3.
How boring that would be! How wonderful P101's companion system is!
I have played many new pirates under this option and I prefer it to the old system of % chance. Now, I'm concerned that this wonderful system may be nerfed or removed, because of some recent complaints from players who are having difficulty with keeping their "favored" team from going on bed rest and the expense of reviving them from Miracle Mitch.
I'm asking that the Developers (especially Ratbeard) defend Advanced Companions system from anyone who wants to scrap it.
A tutorial about bed rest would be a better option.
At current players have three options they can choose between in terms of how their companions come out, plus in dungeons they can simply choose who they wish to use. There is no need to change that system as its pretty much perfect as is.

What players are complaining about is the expense of reviving their companions and how long bed rest takes cause they don't have the gold to revive them, and if you are a new pirate without much access to the vast amount of gold players with a max level pirate can raise in short time, then there can be a problem as all gold is pretty much needed for ships.

The price to revive isn't therefore the problem, as making it cheaper would still present the same problem for those strapped with gold (the new players without a high level pirate that can simply use their shared bank to resolve gold problems).

The solution therefore becomes rather simple, nobody enjoys having to wait a half a day, a day, or whatever for their companions to revive. If companion revive times were scaled up with companion levels as they are then become topped off at a maximum of half an hour of bed rest, then no problem would exist at all and the system would remain fully intact. The same goes to fixing pet training, there needs to be a topped off point on pet training of four hours on skull island activities, or higher level activities need to decrease return time rather than increase it (I suggest as things stand now that nobody ever train their pet with anything other than skull island activities cause the higher level activities simply take forever to get back and since pets are mostly trained up from food, its simply far faster with only skull island activity use).

First Mate
Dec 24, 2009
413
anecorbie on Feb 24, 2021 wrote:
I have liked Advanced Companions from the beginning. I never had any problems with a defeated companion going on "Bed Rest", I simply used another companion. That's why we recruit so many companions. If it were possible to go completely through this game with only 3, then we would recruit only 3.
How boring that would be! How wonderful P101's companion system is!
I have played many new pirates under this option and I prefer it to the old system of % chance. Now, I'm concerned that this wonderful system may be nerfed or removed, because of some recent complaints from players who are having difficulty with keeping their "favored" team from going on bed rest and the expense of reviving them from Miracle Mitch.
I'm asking that the Developers (especially Ratbeard) defend Advanced Companions system from anyone who wants to scrap it.
A tutorial about bed rest would be a better option.
Here Here! I kind of like having meaningful consequences to losing a companion in battle. It makes me think a bit before I just say "I'll have Sarah run in and take the hits for me. She'll probably go down, but that's what life fountains are for." But having a bed rest and wound level system makes them feel a bit more "fragile" or "real". It really makes me feel like I have to be careful about how I maneuver my companions around the battle map or one of my friends and traveling partners may get seriously hurt.

And, as you said, it allows many other companions to get the spotlight. I didn't know how rad Froggo Villa was until the Advanced Companions update where I had him fighting in place of, or along side of, Sarah Steele and El Toro. I also began using Gracie a lot more since her summon could take damage that the rest of my companions didn't have to.

Is it less convenient now? Sure. Life Fountains are practically everywhere. But with what my Pirate101 experience gained from it, I'd make the sacrifice again.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10580
Takhethis on Feb 24, 2021 wrote:
At current players have three options they can choose between in terms of how their companions come out, plus in dungeons they can simply choose who they wish to use. There is no need to change that system as its pretty much perfect as is.

What players are complaining about is the expense of reviving their companions and how long bed rest takes cause they don't have the gold to revive them, and if you are a new pirate without much access to the vast amount of gold players with a max level pirate can raise in short time, then there can be a problem as all gold is pretty much needed for ships.

The price to revive isn't therefore the problem, as making it cheaper would still present the same problem for those strapped with gold (the new players without a high level pirate that can simply use their shared bank to resolve gold problems).

The solution therefore becomes rather simple, nobody enjoys having to wait a half a day, a day, or whatever for their companions to revive. If companion revive times were scaled up with companion levels as they are then become topped off at a maximum of half an hour of bed rest, then no problem would exist at all and the system would remain fully intact. The same goes to fixing pet training, there needs to be a topped off point on pet training of four hours on skull island activities, or higher level activities need to decrease return time rather than increase it (I suggest as things stand now that nobody ever train their pet with anything other than skull island activities cause the higher level activities simply take forever to get back and since pets are mostly trained up from food, its simply far faster with only skull island activity use).
As of now, a max level companion with 0 ranks in scrapper takes 8+ hours to heal. I do admit this seems a bit long for players who haven't fully explored their options in training. (Maybe KI will leave that as a cap.)

With 3 ranks in scrapper, it's only 5+ hours. To me, this is much better. I then give scrapper to those companions I really want to see in battle - notably El Toro & Fan; still if you don't want to wait and don't have enough gold then players have a couple of options.
1. Wake them up. with the first bandage, only 10% of their health is lost. Any class can have a shield or a heal (trained, gear or pet).

2. Use another companion. Most of them in my experience are fairly good and can fight those mob battles easily.
Why use only 3 in an "In Order" set-up? Using a "First Mate" or "Random" will help players develop a better strategy instead of focusing on one team & one strategy.
As to gold, lower levels can get enough gold if they take the time to set a few companions scavenin' or wranglin'.
for gear that can be sold in the bazaar or to free traders. Scavengin' is better than plunderin' because it is more likely to bring back better gold.
This is why I think a Companion Managment tutorial is necessary.

I have posted in "How to be Rich at any Level" on farming spots for gold.
And in any case, you don't need to use Mitch, save that gold for tomes and use another companion.

Commodore
Sep 20, 2009
989
Takhethis on Feb 24, 2021 wrote:
At current players have three options they can choose between in terms of how their companions come out, plus in dungeons they can simply choose who they wish to use. There is no need to change that system as its pretty much perfect as is.

What players are complaining about is the expense of reviving their companions and how long bed rest takes cause they don't have the gold to revive them, and if you are a new pirate without much access to the vast amount of gold players with a max level pirate can raise in short time, then there can be a problem as all gold is pretty much needed for ships.

The price to revive isn't therefore the problem, as making it cheaper would still present the same problem for those strapped with gold (the new players without a high level pirate that can simply use their shared bank to resolve gold problems).

The solution therefore becomes rather simple, nobody enjoys having to wait a half a day, a day, or whatever for their companions to revive. If companion revive times were scaled up with companion levels as they are then become topped off at a maximum of half an hour of bed rest, then no problem would exist at all and the system would remain fully intact. The same goes to fixing pet training, there needs to be a topped off point on pet training of four hours on skull island activities, or higher level activities need to decrease return time rather than increase it (I suggest as things stand now that nobody ever train their pet with anything other than skull island activities cause the higher level activities simply take forever to get back and since pets are mostly trained up from food, its simply far faster with only skull island activity use).
It is only at higher levels, that companions are on best rest for a significant amount of time. That makes sense, if we're at a higher level, I'd expect the game to be more difficult. By that time, you have the gold to use Miracle Mitch if you want to. You also have had plenty of time to use the companion tasks that shorten bed rest.

The lower level pirate I'm currently playing as, has companions that go on bed rest for a few minutes. By the time the next battle is over, the companions on bed rest are back to full health and usable again.

I really like the advanced companions update. I've had my companions set on random ever since. It has forced my higher level pirates to train up all the companions; and on my lower level companions, it has helped me create new strategies based on what companions show up.

You'll be a better player, both in PvP and PvE if you use more than just the same 4 companions in every fight.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 04, 2018
268
anecorbie on Feb 25, 2021 wrote:
As of now, a max level companion with 0 ranks in scrapper takes 8+ hours to heal. I do admit this seems a bit long for players who haven't fully explored their options in training. (Maybe KI will leave that as a cap.)

With 3 ranks in scrapper, it's only 5+ hours. To me, this is much better. I then give scrapper to those companions I really want to see in battle - notably El Toro & Fan; still if you don't want to wait and don't have enough gold then players have a couple of options.
1. Wake them up. with the first bandage, only 10% of their health is lost. Any class can have a shield or a heal (trained, gear or pet).

2. Use another companion. Most of them in my experience are fairly good and can fight those mob battles easily.
Why use only 3 in an "In Order" set-up? Using a "First Mate" or "Random" will help players develop a better strategy instead of focusing on one team & one strategy.
As to gold, lower levels can get enough gold if they take the time to set a few companions scavenin' or wranglin'.
for gear that can be sold in the bazaar or to free traders. Scavengin' is better than plunderin' because it is more likely to bring back better gold.
This is why I think a Companion Managment tutorial is necessary.

I have posted in "How to be Rich at any Level" on farming spots for gold.
And in any case, you don't need to use Mitch, save that gold for tomes and use another companion.
If other players are like me, then they are not going to train scrapper at all, cause if they do then those points are going to come out of far more essential stats which helps keep everyone alive.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 04, 2018
268
anecorbie on Feb 25, 2021 wrote:
As of now, a max level companion with 0 ranks in scrapper takes 8+ hours to heal. I do admit this seems a bit long for players who haven't fully explored their options in training. (Maybe KI will leave that as a cap.)

With 3 ranks in scrapper, it's only 5+ hours. To me, this is much better. I then give scrapper to those companions I really want to see in battle - notably El Toro & Fan; still if you don't want to wait and don't have enough gold then players have a couple of options.
1. Wake them up. with the first bandage, only 10% of their health is lost. Any class can have a shield or a heal (trained, gear or pet).

2. Use another companion. Most of them in my experience are fairly good and can fight those mob battles easily.
Why use only 3 in an "In Order" set-up? Using a "First Mate" or "Random" will help players develop a better strategy instead of focusing on one team & one strategy.
As to gold, lower levels can get enough gold if they take the time to set a few companions scavenin' or wranglin'.
for gear that can be sold in the bazaar or to free traders. Scavengin' is better than plunderin' because it is more likely to bring back better gold.
This is why I think a Companion Managment tutorial is necessary.

I have posted in "How to be Rich at any Level" on farming spots for gold.
And in any case, you don't need to use Mitch, save that gold for tomes and use another companion.
2. would be a good option if companions were remotely comparable to one another, instead some barely have any talents upon them at all, which means companions at the same companion level aren't very comparable despite their level... every time I point this out I've been told that is done on purpose and won't be changed cause for some idiotic reason different companions aren't actually supposed to be used so we can only have a few good special companions that everyone pretty much is forced to use

Lieutenant
Jul 09, 2009
151
For you, it may be fine to have to wait half a day or 20+ hours for companion/pet tasks to complete, but that's going to drive away most people that bother to play. It doesn't add to the gameplay, it just serves to artificially make the game seem longer than it is. Pirate101 is the only RPG I've seen that approaches promoting in-game diversity in regards to strategies and mechanics used by locking players out of things they want to use. I understand they had a tight schedule in the past, but if the game is going to receive regular updates, this system isn't going to attract players. Manpower, supposedly, is no longer an issue, so there's no excuse for companions remaining the way they are.

I've seen this topic come up in the past and I don't see how an "advanced companion tutorial" solves the problem you guys think exists. I haven't seen anyone say that the game is unplayable without S or A tier companions. The argument has typically been that people want to use the companions that are relevant to the story or that they find fun to use. Anyone can beat the game using sub-optimal companions, but that doesn't change the fact that bed rest is a lazy attempt to promote companion diversity. If you want people to use more than just the top tier companions or story line companions, give them an actual reason to.

Forcing players to use things they don't have/want to use is a horrible approach to diversifying gameplay. Maybe think about why people don't want to use certain companions or why people opt into using others.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10580
Takhethis on Feb 24, 2021 wrote:
At current players have three options they can choose between in terms of how their companions come out, plus in dungeons they can simply choose who they wish to use. There is no need to change that system as its pretty much perfect as is.

What players are complaining about is the expense of reviving their companions and how long bed rest takes cause they don't have the gold to revive them, and if you are a new pirate without much access to the vast amount of gold players with a max level pirate can raise in short time, then there can be a problem as all gold is pretty much needed for ships.

The price to revive isn't therefore the problem, as making it cheaper would still present the same problem for those strapped with gold (the new players without a high level pirate that can simply use their shared bank to resolve gold problems).

The solution therefore becomes rather simple, nobody enjoys having to wait a half a day, a day, or whatever for their companions to revive. If companion revive times were scaled up with companion levels as they are then become topped off at a maximum of half an hour of bed rest, then no problem would exist at all and the system would remain fully intact. The same goes to fixing pet training, there needs to be a topped off point on pet training of four hours on skull island activities, or higher level activities need to decrease return time rather than increase it (I suggest as things stand now that nobody ever train their pet with anything other than skull island activities cause the higher level activities simply take forever to get back and since pets are mostly trained up from food, its simply far faster with only skull island activity use).
It all comes down to what players expect from this game:
Do they expect to go through this game with the same team & strategy, without losing a single battle or companions?
That would be boring! Even you are complaining that battles are "too easy" and you want a "hard mode" option. Are you willing to sacrifice companions for that? Or do you really want to keep the cake and eat too?
Half an hour wouldn't encourage players to try different companions & strategies.
I'm not discussing pet training here, but the higher the level the activity is the better your pet gets. Training only Skull Island activities is slower than those high level ones and can bring back better gear and snacks for your pet.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10580
Takhethis on Feb 26, 2021 wrote:
2. would be a good option if companions were remotely comparable to one another, instead some barely have any talents upon them at all, which means companions at the same companion level aren't very comparable despite their level... every time I point this out I've been told that is done on purpose and won't be changed cause for some idiotic reason different companions aren't actually supposed to be used so we can only have a few good special companions that everyone pretty much is forced to use
As I pointed out in #2 even companions with only one power (or none, like Froggo Villa) can handle mob fights easily. And all without placing your "main team" at risk.
Save that team for dungeons or epic battles where you can choose them.
Also, you can train them with the same talents - same first strike, riposte, vengeance, etc. as the more powerful companions.
Scrapper often comes up when a "desired" talent may not be available. Train it or don't train it, but don't complain that you have to wait because you didn't use an available tool.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10580
Lucas Walker on Feb 27, 2021 wrote:
For you, it may be fine to have to wait half a day or 20+ hours for companion/pet tasks to complete, but that's going to drive away most people that bother to play. It doesn't add to the gameplay, it just serves to artificially make the game seem longer than it is. Pirate101 is the only RPG I've seen that approaches promoting in-game diversity in regards to strategies and mechanics used by locking players out of things they want to use. I understand they had a tight schedule in the past, but if the game is going to receive regular updates, this system isn't going to attract players. Manpower, supposedly, is no longer an issue, so there's no excuse for companions remaining the way they are.

I've seen this topic come up in the past and I don't see how an "advanced companion tutorial" solves the problem you guys think exists. I haven't seen anyone say that the game is unplayable without S or A tier companions. The argument has typically been that people want to use the companions that are relevant to the story or that they find fun to use. Anyone can beat the game using sub-optimal companions, but that doesn't change the fact that bed rest is a lazy attempt to promote companion diversity. If you want people to use more than just the top tier companions or story line companions, give them an actual reason to.

Forcing players to use things they don't have/want to use is a horrible approach to diversifying gameplay. Maybe think about why people don't want to use certain companions or why people opt into using others.
Yes, I'm willing to wait; I'm not playing 24/7 (And I'll bet a big keg of yum that you're not either). I've read posts where the main complaint was they lost a favored companion and now have to wait until they can use said companion again. It's as if they don't have a large crew but only 3.
They don't consider that lesser companions actually can do the job. This indicates (to me) ignorance of the system or bad advice put forward by so-called experienced players.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 04, 2018
268
anecorbie on Mar 1, 2021 wrote:
Yes, I'm willing to wait; I'm not playing 24/7 (And I'll bet a big keg of yum that you're not either). I've read posts where the main complaint was they lost a favored companion and now have to wait until they can use said companion again. It's as if they don't have a large crew but only 3.
They don't consider that lesser companions actually can do the job. This indicates (to me) ignorance of the system or bad advice put forward by so-called experienced players.
The thing is, gold is easily come by when you are higher level. One Kane run and you have enough to revive an entire team of max level companions and those with multiple pirates tend to use the shared bank to transfer gold and use items such as rackets and expensive foods as gold storage. As such, the only people that have any reason to complain about Miracle Mitch prices are accounts without at least one max level pirate.

I also think the prices have been decreased fairly substantially from as high as they were. Without penalties the game just isn't as good. A 15% health decrease with one bandage isn't really going to affect the companion much at all, only one's pride.

I am against dumbing things down, this game has already done that too many times.

Lieutenant
Jul 09, 2009
151
anecorbie on Mar 1, 2021 wrote:
Yes, I'm willing to wait; I'm not playing 24/7 (And I'll bet a big keg of yum that you're not either). I've read posts where the main complaint was they lost a favored companion and now have to wait until they can use said companion again. It's as if they don't have a large crew but only 3.
They don't consider that lesser companions actually can do the job. This indicates (to me) ignorance of the system or bad advice put forward by so-called experienced players.
You don't have to play 24/7, the lengthy wait times still hit you. Moreover, if the mmo gets to the point W101 is at or other mmos, yeah there will be people that play the game for extremely long hours at a time.

None of this addresses the real issue with bedrest, which is that it's a lazy and unintuitive bandage fix to the problem that is the companion system. Again, it's not an issue with whether someone can win with low tier companions or not, it's a matter of them not wanting to use those companions because they bring very little in terms of diversity. Rather than trying to force players into making use of a wide variety of their companions when they don't want to for various reasons, give them an actual reason to look at those companions and find some use for them in combat. Companions are so dull and boring in terms of diversity and what they can do, so of course people will lean towards using the ones that offer some uniqueness or contribute to the game's story.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10580
Lucas Walker on Mar 18, 2021 wrote:
You don't have to play 24/7, the lengthy wait times still hit you. Moreover, if the mmo gets to the point W101 is at or other mmos, yeah there will be people that play the game for extremely long hours at a time.

None of this addresses the real issue with bedrest, which is that it's a lazy and unintuitive bandage fix to the problem that is the companion system. Again, it's not an issue with whether someone can win with low tier companions or not, it's a matter of them not wanting to use those companions because they bring very little in terms of diversity. Rather than trying to force players into making use of a wide variety of their companions when they don't want to for various reasons, give them an actual reason to look at those companions and find some use for them in combat. Companions are so dull and boring in terms of diversity and what they can do, so of course people will lean towards using the ones that offer some uniqueness or contribute to the game's story.
You have good reasons, so I'll concede that this is a valid point. However, I remember waaaaay back when the (main) companions got an adjustment, many players then complained that this made them too powerful and over-shadowed their bundle or pack companions.
It seems that KI can't satisfy everyone. I'm just hoping that advanced companions isn't scrapped and go back to the old % choice.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 04, 2018
268
Lucas Walker on Mar 18, 2021 wrote:
You don't have to play 24/7, the lengthy wait times still hit you. Moreover, if the mmo gets to the point W101 is at or other mmos, yeah there will be people that play the game for extremely long hours at a time.

None of this addresses the real issue with bedrest, which is that it's a lazy and unintuitive bandage fix to the problem that is the companion system. Again, it's not an issue with whether someone can win with low tier companions or not, it's a matter of them not wanting to use those companions because they bring very little in terms of diversity. Rather than trying to force players into making use of a wide variety of their companions when they don't want to for various reasons, give them an actual reason to look at those companions and find some use for them in combat. Companions are so dull and boring in terms of diversity and what they can do, so of course people will lean towards using the ones that offer some uniqueness or contribute to the game's story.
Totally agree with the gist of this in that companions of the same level aren't at all remotely close to being equal with one another. I don't mind at all companions having unique individual talents, but I strongly object to companions of the same level not having as many points to place into things as the others have at the same level. When I've brought this up in the past the response in the forums, and I believe it was by KI staff or the mods, was that the companions were intentionally made so that only a few of them stood out and would therefore be chosen by just about everyone to play over all the others so that those companions would be special. My thoughts on such response is that they did not only not know their own game but didn't care to know their own game. Players want diversity and fairness of balance, they enjoy making hybrid characters, and going out of their way to be more unique and to play with different things in different ways that haven't been forced onto us. Bed rest is a problem when there are only a few viable companions and the rest are pure trash. If the rest were remotely viable as being other than substantially worse substitutes, then there would be no need to complain over bed rest as nobody would mind so much about using different companions, or wouldn't mind paying the fee to restore a specific trio that they simply preferred but knew they could easily enough swap out.

Also, Pirate101 doesn't let pirates have quick swap builds, and it would be nice if we were given quick swap build pages that we could select a different companion order for them as well. Then if our top companions died, we could simply switch to a different setup. Of course that might work a bit better for hybrid pirates over one weapon type pirates that actually use the weapon type that KI tried to force onto us.