Base class review necessary?

AuthorMessage
Petty Officer
Mar 10, 2015
53
Hey my question is simple and it is kind of important. How come we get classes in the start of game that are totally useless.

= Kobe which uses agility when we use strength? How does that make any sense
= Shen which uses strength when privy uses will?
= Kanpo which uses agility when we use will and spooky?

... you get the main idea. My question is why? Our first companion the one we should care about is the most useless to us. So how do you fix it? Easy simple change the classes to use the same stat. Ye it won't make sense but it is easy to do.

Or

Just make companions damage scale of all stats. And which ever buff the player applies will be the stat it's weapons go of. So if I am using whale might on a companion with neutral power scaling he will now be strength based.

I get that perhaps it's for variety but no that's a wrong answer. In no game ever made does it make sense to do this with a first companion.

Captain
Jun 10, 2013
678
Lukeskywalker1313 on Jun 19, 2018 wrote:
Hey my question is simple and it is kind of important. How come we get classes in the start of game that are totally useless.

= Kobe which uses agility when we use strength? How does that make any sense
= Shen which uses strength when privy uses will?
= Kanpo which uses agility when we use will and spooky?

... you get the main idea. My question is why? Our first companion the one we should care about is the most useless to us. So how do you fix it? Easy simple change the classes to use the same stat. Ye it won't make sense but it is easy to do.

Or

Just make companions damage scale of all stats. And which ever buff the player applies will be the stat it's weapons go of. So if I am using whale might on a companion with neutral power scaling he will now be strength based.

I get that perhaps it's for variety but no that's a wrong answer. In no game ever made does it make sense to do this with a first companion.
Most people find the first companions to be some of the best in game. I have a max level Musketeer and a max level Privateer , and I find Egg Shen and Wing Chun to be very effective.

Admiral
Oct 27, 2009
1361
They are not useless. They are there so we can learn about how the different classes work by using them and seeing what they are capable of. They are strong in things that our pirate is weak in. They have different powers which can be a very useful thing. As you acquire more powers yourself, and clothing that may include cards that boost their stat too, you may find that they are a lot better than you thought, and that those same boosts also help you in ways you didn't expect. They add different options to your tool kit.

It is entirely up to you if you choose to ignore them, and use only crew that match your stat. That's one of the nice things here, we have lots of options on how we want to play our own pirate. Some people think any task can be fixed by a hammer. At some point, you face a screw or bolt that needs to be loosened though. Some fights are tougher for a particular class. If everyone you use is the same, you may struggle in those and wonder, why isn't it working anymore?

Oh, and the "In no game ever made" comment, well, this seems pretty common to do in Neverwinter Night and other DND type games. In many games, the paladin or barbarian gets a thief type companion, to open traps, or a healer to heal and boost, the rogue gets some muscle to help out, or maybe a cleric to chase away the undead. A wizard might be given a barbarian or a ranger to help them. They give access to powers you don't have, and counterbalance the strengths and weaknesses of each class.

Dread Pirate
May 27, 2009
1631
Nope.

The reason our first companions are not the same class as our pirates is because they have different abilities and strengths. New players benefit from seeing alternative attacks and abilities from their game-start companion and then Bonnie Anne, when she joins the crew. Many players like me enjoy the variety of seeing both melee and ranged attacks, the dodginess of swashbucklers, etc. Not everyone wants a tank of a buccaneer with a tanky crew that simply smashes everything the same way.

I think the reason they added the same-class companion at Level 4 because a lot of players think like you do, and want to keep it simple. Boosting one stat for all the team only works, though, until you reach Cool Ranch and start facing a lot of shooty enemies, and maybe need some different strategies.

I don't know if it's because my first pirate was a witchdoctor, but I have come to appreciate that ALL companions can be a benefit to the team in their own ways -- even the ones that "hard-core players" consider "useless." It sure saves a ton of gold that some players waste on Miracle Mitch when their favorites are all on Bed Rest.


Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9081
None of the starter class companions are "useless"; they're specifically given so that you'll see the advantages of using companions that don't "match" your class.
This mind set of "I've got to use ONLY those companions who match my class" gets carried too much in this game; whether it's a player who once told me "I only use a swash set-up" when I commented that he would benefit from having a Buck or Musket on his team for a difficult battle, to those who demand to choose the pack recruited companion that should go to the "appropriate " pirate.
Diversity is not only the spice of life, it's also key to success in this game!

Admiral
May 30, 2010
1113
Lukeskywalker1313 on Jun 19, 2018 wrote:
Hey my question is simple and it is kind of important. How come we get classes in the start of game that are totally useless.

= Kobe which uses agility when we use strength? How does that make any sense
= Shen which uses strength when privy uses will?
= Kanpo which uses agility when we use will and spooky?

... you get the main idea. My question is why? Our first companion the one we should care about is the most useless to us. So how do you fix it? Easy simple change the classes to use the same stat. Ye it won't make sense but it is easy to do.

Or

Just make companions damage scale of all stats. And which ever buff the player applies will be the stat it's weapons go of. So if I am using whale might on a companion with neutral power scaling he will now be strength based.

I get that perhaps it's for variety but no that's a wrong answer. In no game ever made does it make sense to do this with a first companion.
How many RPGs have you ever played? Of course you need party balance. That's not variety for variety's sake, that's gaining a companion who has different skills and talents from you, so that in a battle where you're stymied, he or she can help you win through.

Yeah, I get that it's sometimes annoying when you use a buff and only one or two of your companions benefit, but that's why you train in other schools, so you can also use buffs that help those companions.

Petty Officer
Mar 10, 2015
53
They are totally useless in comparison to all your other companions. For one you can't critical with them, they do way less damage and there cards are no where close to comparison of class based.

-Never winter is a bad game reason it is dead caugh caugh.

I know what I am talking about. I got 4 maxes all with the most op stats and gear. And I can tell you this with 100% fact.

And no diversity in this game is not a way to win. And it's not a way to make a new player feel op and like pirate. There is a reason many players join pirate and quit. Why? The introductory companions are bad and don't play right. If this was correct pirate101 would be more populated

Dread Pirate
May 27, 2009
1631
Lukeskywalker1313 on Jun 21, 2018 wrote:
They are totally useless in comparison to all your other companions. For one you can't critical with them, they do way less damage and there cards are no where close to comparison of class based.

-Never winter is a bad game reason it is dead caugh caugh.

I know what I am talking about. I got 4 maxes all with the most op stats and gear. And I can tell you this with 100% fact.

And no diversity in this game is not a way to win. And it's not a way to make a new player feel op and like pirate. There is a reason many players join pirate and quit. Why? The introductory companions are bad and don't play right. If this was correct pirate101 would be more populated
Well, obviously there is more than one way to play. You have yours, and we have ours. That doesn't mean the game needs to change.


Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9081
Lukeskywalker1313 on Jun 21, 2018 wrote:
They are totally useless in comparison to all your other companions. For one you can't critical with them, they do way less damage and there cards are no where close to comparison of class based.

-Never winter is a bad game reason it is dead caugh caugh.

I know what I am talking about. I got 4 maxes all with the most op stats and gear. And I can tell you this with 100% fact.

And no diversity in this game is not a way to win. And it's not a way to make a new player feel op and like pirate. There is a reason many players join pirate and quit. Why? The introductory companions are bad and don't play right. If this was correct pirate101 would be more populated
Why should this game make new players feel "OP"? The first12 levels of this game is easy enough as it is. If players are quitting because it's too hard, then they would quit regardless of companions matching skills or not.
If they're looking for an easy game where wins are handed to them no matter what, then they should play "Candy Land" or "Chutes & Ladders" and avoid anything challenging or strategic.( Why do you think this game has lasted 5+ years? Because of the challenge! )
I continue to use Subodai, Kan Po, Kobe, Wing Chun & Egg Shen; why? because they work, and yes they do get criticals because I've trained them well. If you think they're "useless" maybe it's the way you've trained them/ use them.
Diversity was designed into this game for a reason; some fights require not only different companions but also strategies. Changing to meet the situation instead of trying to make the situation meet your strategy is what good game play is about.
I know what I'M talking about: ( So do the other posters here. ) I have 3 accounts of all classes at max level, and the more I play, the more I see that a mix of companions is better & smarter than a one-sided set up.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9081
Lukeskywalker1313 on Jun 21, 2018 wrote:
They are totally useless in comparison to all your other companions. For one you can't critical with them, they do way less damage and there cards are no where close to comparison of class based.

-Never winter is a bad game reason it is dead caugh caugh.

I know what I am talking about. I got 4 maxes all with the most op stats and gear. And I can tell you this with 100% fact.

And no diversity in this game is not a way to win. And it's not a way to make a new player feel op and like pirate. There is a reason many players join pirate and quit. Why? The introductory companions are bad and don't play right. If this was correct pirate101 would be more populated
False argument: " The introductory companions are bad and don't play right. If this was correct pirate101 would be more populated."
Actually if we got a storyline update then, p101 would see a resurgence of players - not if the starter companions get a re-tool.
And the first part of that sentence is only an opinion ( not fact ) as the rest of us are more than satisfied with our starter companions.

Petty Officer
Mar 10, 2015
53
Anecorbie being a player that plays mostly wizard over pirate101 I have talked to many people. It did seem to me that companions were the issue at least to the 150+ people I talked to over the 3 years. And yes you do have a point with the game being to strategic for most players since they have said this to me personally. .... but

Being op is necessity to Intice a new player that is not sold on the gameplay. Since I agree the first 12 levels are easy and most players are like meh not my scene.

-the companions require YOU to go out any change a style to make bad companions decent. WHY on earth would I do that? When I got as example peter, barnabus, dead mike, hawkules etc that are all better without ever needing any adjustments. I got though all of Valencia part 2 without changing a thing of my tactics. Why? Because I used companions that are actually good. That is why I not used them (starters) ever passed level 15. If i did this thread would not exist. As it does I think we have a problem and it needs to b changed.

Dread Pirate
May 27, 2009
1631
Lukeskywalker1313 on Jun 22, 2018 wrote:
Anecorbie being a player that plays mostly wizard over pirate101 I have talked to many people. It did seem to me that companions were the issue at least to the 150+ people I talked to over the 3 years. And yes you do have a point with the game being to strategic for most players since they have said this to me personally. .... but

Being op is necessity to Intice a new player that is not sold on the gameplay. Since I agree the first 12 levels are easy and most players are like meh not my scene.

-the companions require YOU to go out any change a style to make bad companions decent. WHY on earth would I do that? When I got as example peter, barnabus, dead mike, hawkules etc that are all better without ever needing any adjustments. I got though all of Valencia part 2 without changing a thing of my tactics. Why? Because I used companions that are actually good. That is why I not used them (starters) ever passed level 15. If i did this thread would not exist. As it does I think we have a problem and it needs to b changed.
Luke, please don't make this an argument between you and anecorbie.

I know many wizard101 who players told me that they simply preferred the battle mechanics of the battle ring and card play. They found having to give orders to multiple crew members confusing and stressful -- probably why Kingsisle instituted the Automate Companions option. Changing the starting companion would not make those other wizard101 players like pirates any more than they did before. Player feedback in early years led to many changes like Advanced Pets and Companion Tasks, as well as the same-class companions you rely on -- Peter Quint, et al. Kingsisle has ALREADY addressed your issue by creating those new Level 4 crewmates.

It's great that you found a team that worked for you all the way through Calabria skyway. Personally, I think that having to use all buccaneers is boring, but I understand that other players prefer their A-team. The basic starter companions are what they are, but they are not useless, and I will continue to urge players to try using a variety of crew members if they are struggling. You are free to urge players to use only one class of pirate through the whole game, but please don't urge Kingsisle to reduce our freedom of choice.


Bosun
Dec 28, 2012
329
Lukeskywalker1313 on Jun 22, 2018 wrote:
Anecorbie being a player that plays mostly wizard over pirate101 I have talked to many people. It did seem to me that companions were the issue at least to the 150+ people I talked to over the 3 years. And yes you do have a point with the game being to strategic for most players since they have said this to me personally. .... but

Being op is necessity to Intice a new player that is not sold on the gameplay. Since I agree the first 12 levels are easy and most players are like meh not my scene.

-the companions require YOU to go out any change a style to make bad companions decent. WHY on earth would I do that? When I got as example peter, barnabus, dead mike, hawkules etc that are all better without ever needing any adjustments. I got though all of Valencia part 2 without changing a thing of my tactics. Why? Because I used companions that are actually good. That is why I not used them (starters) ever passed level 15. If i did this thread would not exist. As it does I think we have a problem and it needs to b changed.
Fan Flanders is one of my favorite companions, but before level 49 when she gets her final promotion, she seems to have this impeccable ability to die. I kept training her in hopes that one day she would get a better promotion and be viable, and to my pleasant surprise, I was right. You are arguing on the basis of companions that you yourself have admitted to only getting to level 15. Many of the starter companions become astronomically better as they level up, and companions like Kan Po at max level can even be considered part of the "meta" for this game.

Admiral
Oct 27, 2009
1361
Lukeskywalker1313 on Jun 22, 2018 wrote:
Anecorbie being a player that plays mostly wizard over pirate101 I have talked to many people. It did seem to me that companions were the issue at least to the 150+ people I talked to over the 3 years. And yes you do have a point with the game being to strategic for most players since they have said this to me personally. .... but

Being op is necessity to Intice a new player that is not sold on the gameplay. Since I agree the first 12 levels are easy and most players are like meh not my scene.

-the companions require YOU to go out any change a style to make bad companions decent. WHY on earth would I do that? When I got as example peter, barnabus, dead mike, hawkules etc that are all better without ever needing any adjustments. I got though all of Valencia part 2 without changing a thing of my tactics. Why? Because I used companions that are actually good. That is why I not used them (starters) ever passed level 15. If i did this thread would not exist. As it does I think we have a problem and it needs to b changed.
An ad hominem attack is when you attack a person, rather than their position. It appeals to feeling rather than logic to try to persuade, and does not address the topic of discussion. An example, "Anecorbie being a player that plays mostly wizard over pirate101", implying she doesn't know what she is talking about. Look who else is staking out similar positions to her, Willowydream, RRRRZZZZ419, Florenza Rosanante, myself, long time and frequent Pirate101 players.

I'm glad that your style works for you and you are happy with it. On the other hand, you say you never used the starter crew past level 15. How well do you know them,when you never use them? They get very nice powers, and lots of them as they level up, that work well for me and others that play a more varied style. We know how to get them to critical quite well. We do not sacrifice our own power to do that. You don't have to use them if you don't want to.

You say that changing this would make the difference for new players; well they did change it, they added Fan Flanders, Peter Quint, Chantal Livingstone, the Marchioness, and Carcarius Grimtooth to match your pirate's class in 2014. If you want, you can always show the new players you mentioned your powerful crew and what they can do.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9081
Calamity Finch on Jun 22, 2018 wrote:
An ad hominem attack is when you attack a person, rather than their position. It appeals to feeling rather than logic to try to persuade, and does not address the topic of discussion. An example, "Anecorbie being a player that plays mostly wizard over pirate101", implying she doesn't know what she is talking about. Look who else is staking out similar positions to her, Willowydream, RRRRZZZZ419, Florenza Rosanante, myself, long time and frequent Pirate101 players.

I'm glad that your style works for you and you are happy with it. On the other hand, you say you never used the starter crew past level 15. How well do you know them,when you never use them? They get very nice powers, and lots of them as they level up, that work well for me and others that play a more varied style. We know how to get them to critical quite well. We do not sacrifice our own power to do that. You don't have to use them if you don't want to.

You say that changing this would make the difference for new players; well they did change it, they added Fan Flanders, Peter Quint, Chantal Livingstone, the Marchioness, and Carcarius Grimtooth to match your pirate's class in 2014. If you want, you can always show the new players you mentioned your powerful crew and what they can do.
I'm not going to continue this argument, as there is no persuading a person whose mind is made up.
But in all fairness to Lukeskywalker1313, I believe his opening statement is referring to himself as the major Wizard player. He simply forgot to add the comma between my name and his statement.
When I made the switch from W101 to P101, I found a game that really "spoke" to me. I began to understand the mechanics and got into the aspect of giving orders to my crew - this is the difference among devoted wizard fans trying pirate for the first time; this game is so different from wizard101 that some can't make the transition and has nothing to do with "useless" companions.

Petty Officer
Jan 27, 2015
80
As a returning pirate player, when I restarted the game and had Wing Ding (or whatever his name is lol ) in the early parts of the game I never used him and my starters were Chantel and Annie (My pirate is a musk). Now that I'm in cool ranch, I feel like that old commercial and say to Wing Ding on a regular basis (you've come a long way baby).

One major determent for players joining (other than lack of advertisement) is the lack of game update. KI really should fix this imho

Back on topic, for a laugh I'm also debating about going to the shuffle method of companions to add some variety of game play and for some comedic moments of death throes.

Admiral
May 30, 2010
1113
Lukeskywalker1313 on Jun 21, 2018 wrote:
They are totally useless in comparison to all your other companions. For one you can't critical with them, they do way less damage and there cards are no where close to comparison of class based.

-Never winter is a bad game reason it is dead caugh caugh.

I know what I am talking about. I got 4 maxes all with the most op stats and gear. And I can tell you this with 100% fact.

And no diversity in this game is not a way to win. And it's not a way to make a new player feel op and like pirate. There is a reason many players join pirate and quit. Why? The introductory companions are bad and don't play right. If this was correct pirate101 would be more populated
No, your opinion isn't a fact. "Don't play right" for your style, perhaps, but for those of us who enjoy the challenge of winning battles with whoever pops up, they're great. They do plenty of damage if you train them properly.

OP to me means overpowered. If being overpowered is necessary to enjoy the game, then perhaps this isn't the style of game for you? I like a game that makes me think vs one where the player with the biggest hammer always wins. I learn stuff when I lose a battle, which lets me make more informed decisions next time I fight.

I prefer the P101 game style to W101, and wish they'd give us more story to play with.

Admiral
May 30, 2010
1113
In Search of Yum on Jun 23, 2018 wrote:
As a returning pirate player, when I restarted the game and had Wing Ding (or whatever his name is lol ) in the early parts of the game I never used him and my starters were Chantel and Annie (My pirate is a musk). Now that I'm in cool ranch, I feel like that old commercial and say to Wing Ding on a regular basis (you've come a long way baby).

One major determent for players joining (other than lack of advertisement) is the lack of game update. KI really should fix this imho

Back on topic, for a laugh I'm also debating about going to the shuffle method of companions to add some variety of game play and for some comedic moments of death throes.
Wing Chun.

Do give the random companion method a try. I really enjoy it a lot, never knowing who is going to pop up so I can't pre-plan my strategy. Keeps me from getting in a rut.