Combat #s ?s for Ratbeard, RE- Critical Strikes

AuthorMessage
Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2699
I am not sure if this is a bug or if it is just the way the 'new' combat system works, but I have noticed quite a few oddities with some of the powers and Critical Hit numbers.

Before the updates were applied, if my Buccaneer was hidden and used Assassin's Strike I could easily do 2500+ damage to a single enemy. Same goes for Back Stab, when hidden the damage always carried hidden's x2 damage multiplier. Also, when not hidden, Assassin's Strike would still do a minimum of around 1200 damage when used. Since the updates I have noticed a very dramatic decrease in the damage dealt with these powers.

Recently I performed an Epic Strike using Assassin's Strike, while Hidden, and barely did over 1000 damage. I have also received Epic Hits using the same power (w/out Hidden active) with only about 930 damage being dealt- all while I had 2 Shark Fury's and at least 1 Whale's Might active. Same goes for Back Stab- have received Epic Hits producing about 800 damage regularly. Yet, for some reason when I receive just a Mega Sneak Attacks it has done around 1000 damage and Epic Hits producing around 1850 damage. about 750-800 for Super.

In addition to those odd numbers, I have noticed some as well with just Basic Critical Hits. I usually go with an all Buccaneer crew and in the 1st few rounds I use every Strength Buff possible- sometimes 2 Whale's Might and 2 Shark's Fury are active all at the same time.

To use an example- Temujin will receive an Epic Critical Hit on a 'basic' attack and will only do about 450-500 damage. On any given, normal non-Critical Hit, he does around 330-380. I would think that an Epic Hit, with all of the buffing would produce a greater increase in damage than about 150. Before the updates a basic, Epic Critical Hit for him would easily do 1200-1500 damage. In past, pre-update experiences, his base damage on a basic attack would average about 350- when super about 500, when mega about 750 and when Epic about 1100+.

These numbers are pretty much spread companion wide for me, as far as I can tell (besides my new Peter Quint). On an Epic Hit from Holkun Doomhorn only about 450-550 damage is being done, which seems quite a bit low. When my pirate, Valkoor, receives an Epic Glancing Blow he used to do about 450-480 damage. The last Epic Hit from a glancing glow (with 3 Strength Buffs active) did about 210 damage- 70/70/71.

1]So, I was just wondering if these are bugged numbers?

2]Have the damage numbers from powers like Assassin's Strike and Back Stab been dramatically reduced (especially when Critical) and do they no longer receive the x2 bonus from Hidden?

3]Why does Sneak Attack perform so much better (especially when an Epic Hit) than the higher powers like Assassin's Strike & Back Stab?

4]Has the damage from Critical Hits been dramatically decreased in general?

5]Why is Multiple Buffing not having a greater influence on damage dealt? (It has dramatically increased the chances of Critical Hits)

6]Am I just going crazy?

Thanks

Administrator
ValkoorTheVictorio... on May 16, 2014 wrote:
I am not sure if this is a bug or if it is just the way the 'new' combat system works, but I have noticed quite a few oddities with some of the powers and Critical Hit numbers.

Before the updates were applied, if my Buccaneer was hidden and used Assassin's Strike I could easily do 2500+ damage to a single enemy. Same goes for Back Stab, when hidden the damage always carried hidden's x2 damage multiplier. Also, when not hidden, Assassin's Strike would still do a minimum of around 1200 damage when used. Since the updates I have noticed a very dramatic decrease in the damage dealt with these powers.

Recently I performed an Epic Strike using Assassin's Strike, while Hidden, and barely did over 1000 damage. I have also received Epic Hits using the same power (w/out Hidden active) with only about 930 damage being dealt- all while I had 2 Shark Fury's and at least 1 Whale's Might active. Same goes for Back Stab- have received Epic Hits producing about 800 damage regularly. Yet, for some reason when I receive just a Mega Sneak Attacks it has done around 1000 damage and Epic Hits producing around 1850 damage. about 750-800 for Super.

In addition to those odd numbers, I have noticed some as well with just Basic Critical Hits. I usually go with an all Buccaneer crew and in the 1st few rounds I use every Strength Buff possible- sometimes 2 Whale's Might and 2 Shark's Fury are active all at the same time.

To use an example- Temujin will receive an Epic Critical Hit on a 'basic' attack and will only do about 450-500 damage. On any given, normal non-Critical Hit, he does around 330-380. I would think that an Epic Hit, with all of the buffing would produce a greater increase in damage than about 150. Before the updates a basic, Epic Critical Hit for him would easily do 1200-1500 damage. In past, pre-update experiences, his base damage on a basic attack would average about 350- when super about 500, when mega about 750 and when Epic about 1100+.

These numbers are pretty much spread companion wide for me, as far as I can tell (besides my new Peter Quint). On an Epic Hit from Holkun Doomhorn only about 450-550 damage is being done, which seems quite a bit low. When my pirate, Valkoor, receives an Epic Glancing Blow he used to do about 450-480 damage. The last Epic Hit from a glancing glow (with 3 Strength Buffs active) did about 210 damage- 70/70/71.

1]So, I was just wondering if these are bugged numbers?

2]Have the damage numbers from powers like Assassin's Strike and Back Stab been dramatically reduced (especially when Critical) and do they no longer receive the x2 bonus from Hidden?

3]Why does Sneak Attack perform so much better (especially when an Epic Hit) than the higher powers like Assassin's Strike & Back Stab?

4]Has the damage from Critical Hits been dramatically decreased in general?

5]Why is Multiple Buffing not having a greater influence on damage dealt? (It has dramatically increased the chances of Critical Hits)

6]Am I just going crazy?

Thanks
Hi, Valkoor! Perhaps you missed the following update note?

We've reordered the categories of critical hits. “Epic” is now first, “Mega” is second, and “Super” critical hits are the most powerful critical hits.

*One-Eyed Jack, Your Pirate101 Community Manager*
Developer
1]So, I was just wondering if these are bugged numbers?

Possibly, but it's worth noting Jack's reply above.

2]Have the damage numbers from powers like Assassin's Strike and Back Stab been dramatically reduced (especially when Critical) and do they no longer receive the x2 bonus from Hidden?

Not at all, but these powers have always been a bit buggy so I will make a very thorough scrub. (Again!)

3]Why does Sneak Attack perform so much better (especially when an Epic Hit) than the higher powers like Assassin's Strike & Back Stab?

See above.

4]Has the damage from Critical Hits been dramatically decreased in general?

No.

5]Why is Multiple Buffing not having a greater influence on damage dealt? (It has dramatically increased the chances of Critical Hits)

You should be getting +1% bonus to your base damage for every 5 points of stat.

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2699
Thank you to both of you One-Eyed Jack and Ratbeard.

Yeah, I most certainly missed those points about the combat system updates- I guess those babies of mine have been demanding way too much of my attention, how dare they!

At least now I know that I am not full blown crazy! The Critical Hit levels and damages make a lot more sense now, as well as the whole +1% instead of +1 damage. I am in no way complaining about the new updates to the system, I just didn't read ALL of the updates...so, needless to say it was messing with my mind a bit when I kept seeing what I thought was rather odd numbers.

Proceed as planned, I am no longer discombobulamationalateded!

Thanks again...and thanks for not answering #6!

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2699
Ratbeard on May 16, 2014 wrote:
1]So, I was just wondering if these are bugged numbers?

Possibly, but it's worth noting Jack's reply above.

2]Have the damage numbers from powers like Assassin's Strike and Back Stab been dramatically reduced (especially when Critical) and do they no longer receive the x2 bonus from Hidden?

Not at all, but these powers have always been a bit buggy so I will make a very thorough scrub. (Again!)

3]Why does Sneak Attack perform so much better (especially when an Epic Hit) than the higher powers like Assassin's Strike & Back Stab?

See above.

4]Has the damage from Critical Hits been dramatically decreased in general?

No.

5]Why is Multiple Buffing not having a greater influence on damage dealt? (It has dramatically increased the chances of Critical Hits)

You should be getting +1% bonus to your base damage for every 5 points of stat.
Actually, Ratbeard, I just had a few more questions about this and please forgive me if they have already been asked and discussed elsewhere. I tried to search for more about the topic but came up empty in my, admittedly, limited efforts. These questions are 100% for the purpose of feeding the curious cat in me...ooh, sorry didn't mean to mention the "C" word in your presence.

1] I was just curious as to why the change, since it seems that the 'old' way appeared to make sense, in that: Super < Mega < Epic.

2] Was this change done to accommodate any other aspects of the Combat and Critical Hit systems, whether in the present or for future purposes? And if so, are you at liberty to offer up what, how and why?

3] Will this change remain the way it currently is, post recent updates, or is it perhaps temporary?

4] Are there any strategic benefits in battle as to why the changes were made? <I understand if a simple Yes or No is all that can be given, to keep from divulging any 'secret' strategies that we should discover on or own.>

5] Did your sense of humor come from your Mom's or Dad's side of the family, somewhere in the middle or is it perhaps just another symptom from sharing such tight quarters with the rest of the hilarious KI crew? Which ever is the case, my compliments go out to them and you as well!

Thank you for reading and for any answers and/or reply!

Developer
The change has nothing to do with combat mechanics current or future, it's simply an attempt to make our superlatives consistent between W101 and P101, and internally between pets and combat.

Since W101 predates P101 and established the order as Epic>Mega>Super, we choose to follow their lead.

There are no plans to change it back.

You'll get used to it.

Petty Officer
Dec 21, 2008
51
On the topic of interesting numbers, a few ideas have been thrown around about accuracy affecting power damage and buffs having a negative effect, and so on. But there were a few things that really struck me as odd.

1. My 2x damage shots were labelled at 548 or so while wearing a charm with +13 accuracy and Mournsong. When switching to one with Sniper Shot and Mojo Mastery, it increased to 647. I thought that maybe that'd just the significance of Mojo Mastery. But upon adding another item with Mojo Mastery, it stayed constant.

2. I know that multiple copies of Mojo Mastery are working as intended, but why do they decrease by one with each new rank?

3. In one battle, I have my two bomb powers that do 1.5x damage. The same battle and same round, they are next to each other and show different damage amounts. Similarly, I have two copies of Rain of Mortarshells - one trained, and one from my weapon. One battle, they both showed the same amount of damage next to each other. Without changing anything, I went into another battle, and they both had different values, side-by-side.

4. I was battling with my bomb powers, and noted there damage. Then, I discarded some other powers, and the damage of the original one had changed. Is this intended?

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2699
Ratbeard on May 19, 2014 wrote:
The change has nothing to do with combat mechanics current or future, it's simply an attempt to make our superlatives consistent between W101 and P101, and internally between pets and combat.

Since W101 predates P101 and established the order as Epic>Mega>Super, we choose to follow their lead.

There are no plans to change it back.

You'll get used to it.
Ok, thanks Ratbeard. I was just curious. I have definitely already adjusted and gotten use to the changes but just wanted to know what may have prompted the changes. Like I said, due to my own not paying attention and missing some of the update notes about it, it just threw me for a quick loop. But I have come all the way around full circle and am now totally on board with the changes and numbers.

I absolutely love seeing all the numbers and knowing what buffs and equipment with attribute/stat buffs are actually doing. The new changes in the combat system, seeing % numbers and how powers and gear influence damage are absolutely great and very welcomed. It makes studying and researching sooooooooo much easier and to be honest, that much more interesting.

I commend you guys/gals at KI on the whole combat system overhaul and thank you for taking time to answer our questions and provide insight to everything.....it is greatly appreciated.

Developer
Swordroll on May 19, 2014 wrote:
On the topic of interesting numbers, a few ideas have been thrown around about accuracy affecting power damage and buffs having a negative effect, and so on. But there were a few things that really struck me as odd.

1. My 2x damage shots were labelled at 548 or so while wearing a charm with +13 accuracy and Mournsong. When switching to one with Sniper Shot and Mojo Mastery, it increased to 647. I thought that maybe that'd just the significance of Mojo Mastery. But upon adding another item with Mojo Mastery, it stayed constant.

2. I know that multiple copies of Mojo Mastery are working as intended, but why do they decrease by one with each new rank?

3. In one battle, I have my two bomb powers that do 1.5x damage. The same battle and same round, they are next to each other and show different damage amounts. Similarly, I have two copies of Rain of Mortarshells - one trained, and one from my weapon. One battle, they both showed the same amount of damage next to each other. Without changing anything, I went into another battle, and they both had different values, side-by-side.

4. I was battling with my bomb powers, and noted there damage. Then, I discarded some other powers, and the damage of the original one had changed. Is this intended?
All of the above issues are likely to be either (a) display bugs or (b) the power contains some random variable, or some variable that is not properly defined until combat, and so the card is just "guessing" what that value should be. Please report these as bugs.

No, there's no connection between discarding powers and the mechanics on the cards.

All of these issues sound familiar to me, and I know our techs have looked into them. If they are not working correctly on Live, they should be soon.

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2699
Ratbeard on May 19, 2014 wrote:
The change has nothing to do with combat mechanics current or future, it's simply an attempt to make our superlatives consistent between W101 and P101, and internally between pets and combat.

Since W101 predates P101 and established the order as Epic>Mega>Super, we choose to follow their lead.

There are no plans to change it back.

You'll get used to it.
Hello Ratbeard and thank you for all of the great answers and insight!

A few more questions came to mind that aren't numbers related but are more about timing of Epic Talents and such. These too are more driven from curiosity and wanting to get a better understanding of the combat system.

1] When does the programming calculate whether you will receive a secondary bonus attack, such as Relentless?

1a] Is it calculated before success of your initial strike and then perhaps disregarded if that strike is blocked or dodged. Or is the chance of the Relentless only calculated after the initial strike is proven to be successful?

Part of my reasons for being so curious has to do with what the system calculates when multiple strikes are triggered in the same turn. Like say for example: you move a companion with flanking into position to first trigger the Flanking against a badly wounded enemy and you use the companions actual turn of attack against a different, adjacent enemy.

2] If the Flanking attack is successful on the 1st enemy, is the calculating of Relentless against this enemy determined before or after success of the strike?

2b] And also, is that initially calculated chance of Relentless carried over to the new enemy if the Flanking Strike finishes off that enemy- just after the attacking turn on the new enemy?

2c] Or does the Relentless that may have been triggered to activate against the Flanking enemy get disregarded and the system starts from scratch in determining Relentless activation, after the second turn based attack is carried out against the new enemy?

And one other thing I was curious about was Powers used after buffing. I noticed that when you Buff and scroll over the enemy it shows the % increase in triggering Critical Hits- up to +25%.

3] Does extra buffing beyond the +25% max, have any additional influence on the Critical Hit success rate and/or level or is the extra buffing just applied to boosting your actual damage output numbers only?

4] Are Critical Hits on powers used after buffing influenced at all by the class (and that classes primary stat) that the power is considered to belong to?

Like say my Buccaneer used 2 Whales' Might to buff and then has the option to use Assassin's Strike or Brutal Charge.

4a] Since Assassin's Strike is considered to belong to the Swashbuckler Class (primary stat Agility) and Brutal Charge to the Buccaneer class (primary stat- Strength), is there a better chance of receiving a Critical Hit from using my Buccaneer's class Brutal Charge since I buffed strength and it is my classes primary stat?

4b] Or is it all still random with no additional influences coming from the powers originating class and/or primary stat?

I, myself am just as equally fascinated by how the programming works, as I am with the in game applications!

Again I can't thank you enough for taking the time to answering our questions and providing us with a better understanding of the Combat/Buffing/Critical Hit systems.

Gunner's Mate
Sep 28, 2009
233
Here's my one question:

How come strength only determines one's critical chance? Was this intended? Or did I overlook an update note? I had assumed it was if A's Stat of weapon use was greater than B's stat that A is using, then A would have a larger chance to critical. Or maybe it's a display issue? It only shows something like:

( Strength Symbol ) 2% Critical Chance

On all of my companions, not just my buccaneers.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 10, 2009
6079
ValkoorTheVictorio... on May 20, 2014 wrote:
Hello Ratbeard and thank you for all of the great answers and insight!

A few more questions came to mind that aren't numbers related but are more about timing of Epic Talents and such. These too are more driven from curiosity and wanting to get a better understanding of the combat system.

1] When does the programming calculate whether you will receive a secondary bonus attack, such as Relentless?

1a] Is it calculated before success of your initial strike and then perhaps disregarded if that strike is blocked or dodged. Or is the chance of the Relentless only calculated after the initial strike is proven to be successful?

Part of my reasons for being so curious has to do with what the system calculates when multiple strikes are triggered in the same turn. Like say for example: you move a companion with flanking into position to first trigger the Flanking against a badly wounded enemy and you use the companions actual turn of attack against a different, adjacent enemy.

2] If the Flanking attack is successful on the 1st enemy, is the calculating of Relentless against this enemy determined before or after success of the strike?

2b] And also, is that initially calculated chance of Relentless carried over to the new enemy if the Flanking Strike finishes off that enemy- just after the attacking turn on the new enemy?

2c] Or does the Relentless that may have been triggered to activate against the Flanking enemy get disregarded and the system starts from scratch in determining Relentless activation, after the second turn based attack is carried out against the new enemy?

And one other thing I was curious about was Powers used after buffing. I noticed that when you Buff and scroll over the enemy it shows the % increase in triggering Critical Hits- up to +25%.

3] Does extra buffing beyond the +25% max, have any additional influence on the Critical Hit success rate and/or level or is the extra buffing just applied to boosting your actual damage output numbers only?

4] Are Critical Hits on powers used after buffing influenced at all by the class (and that classes primary stat) that the power is considered to belong to?

Like say my Buccaneer used 2 Whales' Might to buff and then has the option to use Assassin's Strike or Brutal Charge.

4a] Since Assassin's Strike is considered to belong to the Swashbuckler Class (primary stat Agility) and Brutal Charge to the Buccaneer class (primary stat- Strength), is there a better chance of receiving a Critical Hit from using my Buccaneer's class Brutal Charge since I buffed strength and it is my classes primary stat?

4b] Or is it all still random with no additional influences coming from the powers originating class and/or primary stat?

I, myself am just as equally fascinated by how the programming works, as I am with the in game applications!

Again I can't thank you enough for taking the time to answering our questions and providing us with a better understanding of the Combat/Buffing/Critical Hit systems.
Ach, my head. Remind me to never play chess with you.

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2699
Chrissy Th'Blesser on May 23, 2014 wrote:
Ach, my head. Remind me to never play chess with you.
Tee Hee- mission accomplished.

I have no idea what I asked or said either, sometimes I just talk in squared circles with what may appear to be chaotic logic, until I either confuse the person listening, reading, or myself- whichever may come first, initially or before the others. I call it the "H.A.W. Principle of Deliberate Deception and Delusional Deduction"....or just "Huh And What?" for short.

I guess since those questions never garned a response, sent your head a whirlin' and my eyes tied and tongue crossed- then I must have equally confused everyone- SUCCESS....I think! Sorry about your head and trust me, my chess game leaves much to be desired. I'll stick to H.A.W.!

Developer
Gruesome Richard on May 22, 2014 wrote:
Here's my one question:

How come strength only determines one's critical chance? Was this intended? Or did I overlook an update note? I had assumed it was if A's Stat of weapon use was greater than B's stat that A is using, then A would have a larger chance to critical. Or maybe it's a display issue? It only shows something like:

( Strength Symbol ) 2% Critical Chance

On all of my companions, not just my buccaneers.
Sounds like a bug. We'll investigate.

Hopefully it's just a display bug! (We did so much work on the UI on this last pass, that it's likely to be just a display bug, but we'll make sure.)

Developer
ValkoorTheVictorio... on May 20, 2014 wrote:
Hello Ratbeard and thank you for all of the great answers and insight!

A few more questions came to mind that aren't numbers related but are more about timing of Epic Talents and such. These too are more driven from curiosity and wanting to get a better understanding of the combat system.

1] When does the programming calculate whether you will receive a secondary bonus attack, such as Relentless?

1a] Is it calculated before success of your initial strike and then perhaps disregarded if that strike is blocked or dodged. Or is the chance of the Relentless only calculated after the initial strike is proven to be successful?

Part of my reasons for being so curious has to do with what the system calculates when multiple strikes are triggered in the same turn. Like say for example: you move a companion with flanking into position to first trigger the Flanking against a badly wounded enemy and you use the companions actual turn of attack against a different, adjacent enemy.

2] If the Flanking attack is successful on the 1st enemy, is the calculating of Relentless against this enemy determined before or after success of the strike?

2b] And also, is that initially calculated chance of Relentless carried over to the new enemy if the Flanking Strike finishes off that enemy- just after the attacking turn on the new enemy?

2c] Or does the Relentless that may have been triggered to activate against the Flanking enemy get disregarded and the system starts from scratch in determining Relentless activation, after the second turn based attack is carried out against the new enemy?

And one other thing I was curious about was Powers used after buffing. I noticed that when you Buff and scroll over the enemy it shows the % increase in triggering Critical Hits- up to +25%.

3] Does extra buffing beyond the +25% max, have any additional influence on the Critical Hit success rate and/or level or is the extra buffing just applied to boosting your actual damage output numbers only?

4] Are Critical Hits on powers used after buffing influenced at all by the class (and that classes primary stat) that the power is considered to belong to?

Like say my Buccaneer used 2 Whales' Might to buff and then has the option to use Assassin's Strike or Brutal Charge.

4a] Since Assassin's Strike is considered to belong to the Swashbuckler Class (primary stat Agility) and Brutal Charge to the Buccaneer class (primary stat- Strength), is there a better chance of receiving a Critical Hit from using my Buccaneer's class Brutal Charge since I buffed strength and it is my classes primary stat?

4b] Or is it all still random with no additional influences coming from the powers originating class and/or primary stat?

I, myself am just as equally fascinated by how the programming works, as I am with the in game applications!

Again I can't thank you enough for taking the time to answering our questions and providing us with a better understanding of the Combat/Buffing/Critical Hit systems.
1] When does the programming calculate whether you will receive a secondary bonus attack, such as Relentless?

Oh goody! We get to talk programming logic!

When I am setting up a new epic talent, I have dozens of different "events" that I can listen for. Relentless listens for OnAbilityActivate which means that it needs to know there is an ability that fired (in this case, the prior attack), that there was a target, and that the ability successfully activated (ie, you hit).

For comparison, Second Chance is listening for OnAbilityFail. So too is Riposte-- except that Second Chance listens when I am the attacker, and Riposte listens when I am the defender.

There's a few other pieces of logic embedded in every epic talent (TargetInRange, NotHidden, PrimaryAttackType, and of course TargetIsEnemy-- which is loads of fun if you forget it.)

2] If the Flanking attack is successful on the 1st enemy, is the calculating of Relentless against this enemy determined before or after success of the strike?

In this case Flanking has a trigger which is essentially "MovedIntoFlanking" so it is going to trigger before your actual attack. Your Relentless is going to trigger from your Flank attack first.

2b] And also, is that initially calculated chance of Relentless carried over to the new enemy if the Flanking Strike finishes off that enemy- just after the attacking turn on the new enemy?

Relentless is going to try to trigger from your Flank attack, but when it gets to the part where it needs a target, it's not going to find one-- the target is already dead!

So Relentless will not trigger from your Flank attack, and you will not expend a use of Relentless.

The % chance that Relentless triggers will be rolled anew each time it tries to trigger; and it will only ever work against the target it is actually trying to hit. You can't "trick" Relentless into thinking you have a huge stat advantage over one target and then somehow redirect it to a target you wouldn't have as much advantage against.

3] Does extra buffing beyond the +25% max, have any additional influence on the Critical Hit success rate and/or level or is the extra buffing just applied to boosting your actual damage output numbers only?

No. Yes.

4] Are Critical Hits on powers used after buffing influenced at all by the class (and that classes primary stat) that the power is considered to belong to?

No. The power may be set up to use a different stat to calculate its damage bonus, but your crit chance is based on the weapon type you are using. If you are using a STR-based weapon then your crit chance is based on STR regardless of what powers you use. A BUC can use Assassin's Strike and crit with STR, and a SWB can use Brutal Charge and crit with AGI.

You can change your primary stat by changing weapons (sword to gun, for example) but you can't change your primary stat by choosing different powers.

I am 99% positive on that, but it's a deep enough question that I'll leave an allowance for me to be wrong!

Pirate Overlord
Mar 10, 2009
6079
Ratbeard on May 27, 2014 wrote:
1] When does the programming calculate whether you will receive a secondary bonus attack, such as Relentless?

Oh goody! We get to talk programming logic!

When I am setting up a new epic talent, I have dozens of different "events" that I can listen for. Relentless listens for OnAbilityActivate which means that it needs to know there is an ability that fired (in this case, the prior attack), that there was a target, and that the ability successfully activated (ie, you hit).

For comparison, Second Chance is listening for OnAbilityFail. So too is Riposte-- except that Second Chance listens when I am the attacker, and Riposte listens when I am the defender.

There's a few other pieces of logic embedded in every epic talent (TargetInRange, NotHidden, PrimaryAttackType, and of course TargetIsEnemy-- which is loads of fun if you forget it.)

2] If the Flanking attack is successful on the 1st enemy, is the calculating of Relentless against this enemy determined before or after success of the strike?

In this case Flanking has a trigger which is essentially "MovedIntoFlanking" so it is going to trigger before your actual attack. Your Relentless is going to trigger from your Flank attack first.

2b] And also, is that initially calculated chance of Relentless carried over to the new enemy if the Flanking Strike finishes off that enemy- just after the attacking turn on the new enemy?

Relentless is going to try to trigger from your Flank attack, but when it gets to the part where it needs a target, it's not going to find one-- the target is already dead!

So Relentless will not trigger from your Flank attack, and you will not expend a use of Relentless.

The % chance that Relentless triggers will be rolled anew each time it tries to trigger; and it will only ever work against the target it is actually trying to hit. You can't "trick" Relentless into thinking you have a huge stat advantage over one target and then somehow redirect it to a target you wouldn't have as much advantage against.

3] Does extra buffing beyond the +25% max, have any additional influence on the Critical Hit success rate and/or level or is the extra buffing just applied to boosting your actual damage output numbers only?

No. Yes.

4] Are Critical Hits on powers used after buffing influenced at all by the class (and that classes primary stat) that the power is considered to belong to?

No. The power may be set up to use a different stat to calculate its damage bonus, but your crit chance is based on the weapon type you are using. If you are using a STR-based weapon then your crit chance is based on STR regardless of what powers you use. A BUC can use Assassin's Strike and crit with STR, and a SWB can use Brutal Charge and crit with AGI.

You can change your primary stat by changing weapons (sword to gun, for example) but you can't change your primary stat by choosing different powers.

I am 99% positive on that, but it's a deep enough question that I'll leave an allowance for me to be wrong!
OK, that wasn't so bad. I even understood almost all of that and my head doesn't even hurt. I am sure that just by re reading it I will pick up on what was fuzzy. You are a really good teacher Ratbeard.

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2699
Ratbeard on May 27, 2014 wrote:
1] When does the programming calculate whether you will receive a secondary bonus attack, such as Relentless?

Oh goody! We get to talk programming logic!

When I am setting up a new epic talent, I have dozens of different "events" that I can listen for. Relentless listens for OnAbilityActivate which means that it needs to know there is an ability that fired (in this case, the prior attack), that there was a target, and that the ability successfully activated (ie, you hit).

For comparison, Second Chance is listening for OnAbilityFail. So too is Riposte-- except that Second Chance listens when I am the attacker, and Riposte listens when I am the defender.

There's a few other pieces of logic embedded in every epic talent (TargetInRange, NotHidden, PrimaryAttackType, and of course TargetIsEnemy-- which is loads of fun if you forget it.)

2] If the Flanking attack is successful on the 1st enemy, is the calculating of Relentless against this enemy determined before or after success of the strike?

In this case Flanking has a trigger which is essentially "MovedIntoFlanking" so it is going to trigger before your actual attack. Your Relentless is going to trigger from your Flank attack first.

2b] And also, is that initially calculated chance of Relentless carried over to the new enemy if the Flanking Strike finishes off that enemy- just after the attacking turn on the new enemy?

Relentless is going to try to trigger from your Flank attack, but when it gets to the part where it needs a target, it's not going to find one-- the target is already dead!

So Relentless will not trigger from your Flank attack, and you will not expend a use of Relentless.

The % chance that Relentless triggers will be rolled anew each time it tries to trigger; and it will only ever work against the target it is actually trying to hit. You can't "trick" Relentless into thinking you have a huge stat advantage over one target and then somehow redirect it to a target you wouldn't have as much advantage against.

3] Does extra buffing beyond the +25% max, have any additional influence on the Critical Hit success rate and/or level or is the extra buffing just applied to boosting your actual damage output numbers only?

No. Yes.

4] Are Critical Hits on powers used after buffing influenced at all by the class (and that classes primary stat) that the power is considered to belong to?

No. The power may be set up to use a different stat to calculate its damage bonus, but your crit chance is based on the weapon type you are using. If you are using a STR-based weapon then your crit chance is based on STR regardless of what powers you use. A BUC can use Assassin's Strike and crit with STR, and a SWB can use Brutal Charge and crit with AGI.

You can change your primary stat by changing weapons (sword to gun, for example) but you can't change your primary stat by choosing different powers.

I am 99% positive on that, but it's a deep enough question that I'll leave an allowance for me to be wrong!
NOW THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.....and is sheet music to my eyes!

WOW, this is some good stuff here Ratbeard! I was so hoping that:

1] You would respond and not think I was asking too much about nonsense
2] You would blow my mind with some amazing answers
3] You wouldn't be too busy to indulge our curiosities about the programming side of the combat system
4] You wouldn't view those questions as RAT-orical ones (sorry, I couldn't resist)

Boy oh boy did you deliver the goods. I thought I was fascinated before your answers....now I am simply starved for more. It is quite obvious that you have a Passion for the Programming, as I could clearly see your whiskers twitch and your hook curling your beard as you offered up your responses

Even though I am sure it is extremely complicated in the realm of programming, your explanation of OnAbilityActivate and OnAbilityFail, somehow made absolute perfect sense to me...was that as intended? I can only imagine the fun you programmers have 'playing around' with the embedded logic before presenting us with the finished product....especially TargetIsEnemy coding- that's just too funny!

It's so nice to know that the chance of receiving Relentless will be recalculated- in the case of first being triggered by Flanking or other movement triggered Epic Talents, so that way our pirates will always have the same chance of triggering all of their Relentless, regardless of being 1st calculated by a previous attack/talent (but no longer having a target).

WHEW....you can sure tell I am no programmer- you make it sound like perfect English (to an actual English speaking audience)...HOWWW!

As for #3- That is just as I figured, I just wasn't sure if it 'showed' the Crit. Hit % as capped, but perhaps was still an underlying, hidden % boost that may kick in that we weren't able to see. I never saw any signs that it did, but did see the damage numbers continue to go up...but still thought that out of curiosity, I should inquire.

4] This one just had me very curious because, and maybe it was purely coincidental, I noticed that when I had several STR buffs active on my Buccaneer, for some reason I was seeing a whole lot more Critical Hits with Buccaneer Powers like Vicious, Mighty and Brutal Charge and not very many when I used Assassin's Strike or Back Stab. But after reading your answer, I am guessing that it was just merely due to the rolling of the dice and purely coincidental. Also, it could easily be due to the fact that my Buccaneer has 3x more BUC attack powers than SWB attack powers, so it would be natural that I would see more CRITS with the BUC ones.

Ratbeard, I can't thank you enough for giving all of us non-programmer folks a small glimpse of your fascinating world. Like I said, now it just makes me want to know even more. I appreciate you taking the time out to so thoroughly explain everything...although, I am quite sure that you still took it easy on my brain...don't want a meltdown now do we?

THANK YOU!

Developer
I am sure the Programming Lead in the next office over is laughing his pirate booty off.

They write the code and provide the tools to us Designers.

We'll see if I can get through one milestone without "getting creative" and breaking something.

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2699
Ratbeard on May 27, 2014 wrote:
I am sure the Programming Lead in the next office over is laughing his pirate booty off.

They write the code and provide the tools to us Designers.

We'll see if I can get through one milestone without "getting creative" and breaking something.
Ahh, but breaking things allows you to reconstruct them and truly discover how they work. Breaking stuff, breeds creativity. At work, I unintentionally and accidentally break stuff on purpose all the time.
"Ooops, Did I do thaaaat?"

I may have given ole Ratbeard a bit too much credit with the Programming part, but please don't ruin the moment of glory I had envisioned for our dear friend "Swiss Sniffer". His mishaps, misadventures, missteps, misguidedness, misappropriation of rations and mispronunciations are always so prevalent in the game...so much to where others may not take him too seriously or give him proper credit- I'm looking squarely at you, dear, sweet Bonnie Lass.

I say let him have his moment in the spotlight, even if it is in broad daylight without a cloud in sight...well, except possibly between his lobes.

Petty Officer
Jun 06, 2009
82
Ratbeard on May 19, 2014 wrote:
The change has nothing to do with combat mechanics current or future, it's simply an attempt to make our superlatives consistent between W101 and P101, and internally between pets and combat.

Since W101 predates P101 and established the order as Epic>Mega>Super, we choose to follow their lead.

There are no plans to change it back.

You'll get used to it.
When did W101 use epic, mega, and super? I play it, but i don't know what you're talking about.

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2699
Hello Ratbeard.

Just had a question about something that I had asked about before- Assassin's Strike (AS) numbers (especially when hidden). If you may remember I had referenced that it seemed that AS wasn't doing near the damage that I thought it was supposed to when hidden. I am still seeing some of the same results and questionable numbers in regards to this. So, I guess the first questions should be:

Does AS receive the 2x damage bonus from being Hidden along with the x3 damage from the power itself?

If so, do Aquilian enemies/bosses receive the same capped damage amount per strike that lower level bosses do?

Is this there any reason why I should be seeing #s like this when using AS while hidden?

The AS card will say 1750-1975 Damage w/ 514 x2 bleeding, when I scroll over it while hidden and just before using it. I will have as many as 3 Strength Buffs active. In several battles in Zeena's Sanctum, I used AS while hidden against the Amazon Archers, while they had 3027/3027 or 3052/3052 health when I attacked them. They all received bleeding amounts of 264 for 2 rounds. The damage that AS actually did, while hidden, was in the range of 1050-1150 in several attempts (without any Criticals). Every once in a while one will do about 1500-1550 damage, but for the most part the average has been about 1140, with even a couple around 950-1000 thrown in there.

So, if there is a capped damage amount per strike, this would make some sense but I'm not sure why the card would show 700-800 more base damage then what is actually dealt. If there is no cap, do these numbers seem to be what should be expected?

I can further test, document and post more damage numbers, if you think there may be something that is not working correctly. Anyway, the #s just seemed a little odd to me and thought that I should bring them up to see if there was any type of issue. And perhaps, I am completely missing something as well....wouldn't be the first time.

Thank you

Ensign
Nov 11, 2008
26
The Fire Buccaneer on Jun 10, 2014 wrote:
When did W101 use epic, mega, and super? I play it, but i don't know what you're talking about.
I think he was referring to pet levels. We currently have baby, teen, adult, ancient, epic, and mega. I guess we will be seeing super next?

Developer
1) All bosses have damage caps. It's not just a low level thing. You just don't usually SEE the cap engage on a high level boss.

But Amazon Archers, not being bosses, should not have a damage cap.

2) There *may be* a UI issue on the card that is increasing your bleed damage due to hiding-- when in fact the bleed damage won't be increased (after the hit first hit, you become visible, so the hide boost goes away before the bleed is applied). That's functionally "correct" though not necessarily as satisfying as we might prefer.

3) The bonus damage for Hiding is not, technically, a multiplier-- it's an "add" boost of +100%. Yes, that is a doubling (x2) if you don't have any other boosts, but if you had another doubling (like Backstab) the final result is 100% (base) + 100% (hide) + 100% (backstab) = 300% damage. It would not be 4x damage.

4) All of that being said, the interplay of Hide, Backstab, and Bleed seems like it has always been buggy, so I will take a look.

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2699
Ratbeard on Jun 12, 2014 wrote:
1) All bosses have damage caps. It's not just a low level thing. You just don't usually SEE the cap engage on a high level boss.

But Amazon Archers, not being bosses, should not have a damage cap.

2) There *may be* a UI issue on the card that is increasing your bleed damage due to hiding-- when in fact the bleed damage won't be increased (after the hit first hit, you become visible, so the hide boost goes away before the bleed is applied). That's functionally "correct" though not necessarily as satisfying as we might prefer.

3) The bonus damage for Hiding is not, technically, a multiplier-- it's an "add" boost of +100%. Yes, that is a doubling (x2) if you don't have any other boosts, but if you had another doubling (like Backstab) the final result is 100% (base) + 100% (hide) + 100% (backstab) = 300% damage. It would not be 4x damage.

4) All of that being said, the interplay of Hide, Backstab, and Bleed seems like it has always been buggy, so I will take a look.
Thank you Ratbeard for the response and for looking into it.

I really don't want to seem like a pain, but this is just something that I have always been curious about. I just couldn't figure out why the damage on the card would show around 1900 (excluding bleeding) and the actual damage done would most of the time be 700-800 lower, when using on non-boss, Aquilian enemies, especially when receiving a boost of up to +200 Strength from buffing.

It never effects the outcome or causes any actual problems, I just wanted to bring it to your attention just in case something odd was going on that may need fixing. Just trying to be a helpful and watchful pirate.

As always, I thank you for your help, your reply and your time.