-PREFACE: Please read all the way to the end before making a snap judgement and writing a rebuttal-

So, those of us active on the message boards have all seen no end of posts on the 'OP'-ness of different powers, abilities, companions, and pieces of gear. In what will most likely be a fruitless attempt to ease some of the conflict in the community, i'm going to make a compromise and see how my fellow marauders take it.

The subject of this compromise is the Infamous 'Black Fog', a Swashbuckler only power that has been the subject of incredible commotion in all corners of the spiral, and has even been banned from Central Matches.

Before I go any further, i would like to say: My main character is a swashbuckler. I love the heck out of that Fog. I mean, a group hide? heck yeah! However, I cannot deny that it is a very powerful, er, power.

So, here is my compromise on Black Fog for the community to tear apart: First, it should only last 3 turns. second, that X2 damage should be turned into X1.5 Damage. That's actually it. yep. That's all. Not only will this reduce the damage fog can produce, but it will also reduce the wait times when it comes to 2 swashies waiting out eachother's fogs. However, it still provides a significant damage boost, and a more than long enough hide time to buff and heal if necessary.

The subjects of my second compromise are the 2 gear-given 3x3 square summons, the scorpion swarm (from the nefarious staff) and the terror-cotta army, from Machu's Robes.

Again, I have a pirate that uses one of these: my privateer makes excellent use of those scorpions. with buffs, they are quite formidable. However, yet again, this may be a little unbalanced.

However, what could I change here? lower the stats of the summons? By that point they would hardly ever hit anything. Instead, I am suggesting a collection of debuffs/DOTs on the summoner, labeled 'Summoner's Fatigue. the list of things effecting that player could include but are not limited to: the effect of the ability 'Focus Fire', a debuff in each of the SAW stats, A 2-turn, Immobilization, or even a DOT on the Summoner like being poisoned.

Now that I have gone to all the trouble to create these compromises; each of which i find reasonable, I should state: I DO NOT THINK ANY OF THE ABOVE IS NECESSARY. It has always been my opinion that players can, should, and eventually will always find a way to overcome adversity. I do not think any tactic is infallible, and I do not think that whenever we are defeated by something (unless it is the hydra) that we should put the game at fault. I only wrote this whole thing to attempt to alleviate some of the conflict in the community. I hope my points and suggestions here are not misconstrued by any of us, and I wish you all safe travels in the spiral.

-Matthew Walker,
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Blixet on Jul 7, 2015 wrote:

-PREFACE: Please read all the way to the end before making a snap judgement and writing a rebuttal-

So, those of us active on the message boards have all seen no end of posts on the 'OP'-ness of different powers, abilities, companions, and pieces of gear. In what will most likely be a fruitless attempt to ease some of the conflict in the community, i'm going to make a compromise and see how my fellow marauders take it.

The subject of this compromise is the Infamous 'Black Fog', a Swashbuckler only power that has been the subject of incredible commotion in all corners of the spiral, and has even been banned from Central Matches.

Before I go any further, i would like to say: My main character is a swashbuckler. I love the heck out of that Fog. I mean, a group hide? heck yeah! However, I cannot deny that it is a very powerful, er, power.

So, here is my compromise on Black Fog for the community to tear apart: First, it should only last 3 turns. second, that X2 damage should be turned into X1.5 Damage. That's actually it. yep. That's all. Not only will this reduce the damage fog can produce, but it will also reduce the wait times when it comes to 2 swashies waiting out eachother's fogs. However, it still provides a significant damage boost, and a more than long enough hide time to buff and heal if necessary.

The subjects of my second compromise are the 2 gear-given 3x3 square summons, the scorpion swarm (from the nefarious staff) and the terror-cotta army, from Machu's Robes.

Again, I have a pirate that uses one of these: my privateer makes excellent use of those scorpions. with buffs, they are quite formidable. However, yet again, this may be a little unbalanced.

However, what could I change here? lower the stats of the summons? By that point they would hardly ever hit anything. Instead, I am suggesting a collection of debuffs/DOTs on the summoner, labeled 'Summoner's Fatigue. the list of things effecting that player could include but are not limited to: the effect of the ability 'Focus Fire', a debuff in each of the SAW stats, A 2-turn, Immobilization, or even a DOT on the Summoner like being poisoned.

Now that I have gone to all the trouble to create these compromises; each of which i find reasonable, I should state: I DO NOT THINK ANY OF THE ABOVE IS NECESSARY. It has always been my opinion that players can, should, and eventually will always find a way to overcome adversity. I do not think any tactic is infallible, and I do not think that whenever we are defeated by something (unless it is the hydra) that we should put the game at fault. I only wrote this whole thing to attempt to alleviate some of the conflict in the community. I hope my points and suggestions here are not misconstrued by any of us, and I wish you all safe travels in the spiral.

-Matthew Walker,
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why not just make every summon have a permanent focus fire, and terrors are already getting nerfed

anecorbie on Jul 8, 2015 wrote:

Check out Ratbeard's recent answer to nerfing in the post: "non-pvp gear"
What you are suggesting would seriously reduce the effectiveness of swashbucklers, there is a reason for the 5 turn hide as well as the x2 damage. Are you going to make "Walk in Darkness" ( a level 12 power which can be used by anyone with that gear card ) more effective than a level 60 power?
Why should powers and gear be nerfed just because PVP-ers hate that power/gear?

Because There btoken and take no skills to use and are also making a lot of people pick the same class swashbuckler just because how easy it is to quest on them every time I go into the tower of moo manchu I always see another swashbuckler in the team up area when I go to Avery realm there is always a about 2 or swashbucklers in battle what I am trying to say is swashbuckler is broken at the min ki should do some thing to hide because honestly I miss seeing combs of classes and not just bucklers with moo robe

anecorbie on Jul 8, 2015 wrote:

Check out Ratbeard's recent answer to nerfing in the post: "non-pvp gear"
What you are suggesting would seriously reduce the effectiveness of swashbucklers, there is a reason for the 5 turn hide as well as the x2 damage. Are you going to make "Walk in Darkness" ( a level 12 power which can be used by anyone with that gear card ) more effective than a level 60 power?
Why should powers and gear be nerfed just because PVP-ers hate that power/gear?

Ok wait, Walk in Darkness and Black Fog are on 2 completely different LvL's while Black Fog x2 damage for 5 turns an ENTIRE TEAM, Walk in Darkness only hides the Pirate. Any top notch pvper (Central/Non) knows for a FACT this is an undeniable one as well, the best way to counter hide is to hide yourself. While everyone has access to Multiple Walk in Darkness through farmed gear/bazaar gear only Buckles have access to Black Fog which I know you're argument back would be 'Then just Hide your Pirate' what about our companions? So great our Pirate wont die but what are we gonna do about our companions? I mean even if I fort each of them by the time the Fog Squad gets over, 3 Comps focus on one comp and there dead, the Pirate by themselves could've poisoned before hand making it impossible to heal them afterwards if they used the Curse one and that means a good setting up buckler WILL critical there Hidden assassin, sorry that's a recipe for 2 units down before anything you can do.

The idea of reducing the damage isn't sounding that good TBH, I do however have to say the best thing to do is to reduce the # of turns there is to Black Fog, 3 turns is well more then enough to get your companions acrossthe board, IMO as a PvPer if it takes more then 3 rounds to get into your opponents territory when you need to then its not worth rushing them, also may I add Bucklers have Alert so even saying the argument 'but what if its vs a musket I dont wanna walk over bombs' pft fort a bad boy and send them through, I promise you they will take like 55 damage a bomb.

THERE IS NO REASON TO KEEP BLACK FOG 5 TURNS, may I just emphasis that? Honestly no reason in the world does Black Fog need to be more then 5 turns, buffing an entire team x2 attack for 3 turns is already dangerous enough and is just balancing the power with a tiny tune back. You don't have to R1 black fog because if you rely on Black Fog you will never learn the true art of PvP

anecorbie on Jul 8, 2015 wrote:

Check out Ratbeard's recent answer to nerfing in the post: "non-pvp gear"
What you are suggesting would seriously reduce the effectiveness of swashbucklers, there is a reason for the 5 turn hide as well as the x2 damage. Are you going to make "Walk in Darkness" ( a level 12 power which can be used by anyone with that gear card ) more effective than a level 60 power?
Why should powers and gear be nerfed just because PVP-ers hate that power/gear?

Like I said, I don't actually want these changes made. However, I feel that if it gets to the point where the community literally cannot stop crying about it, then it is a compromise that both sides can find favorable.

Blixet on Jul 7, 2015 wrote:

-PREFACE: Please read all the way to the end before making a snap judgement and writing a rebuttal-

So, those of us active on the message boards have all seen no end of posts on the 'OP'-ness of different powers, abilities, companions, and pieces of gear. In what will most likely be a fruitless attempt to ease some of the conflict in the community, i'm going to make a compromise and see how my fellow marauders take it.

The subject of this compromise is the Infamous 'Black Fog', a Swashbuckler only power that has been the subject of incredible commotion in all corners of the spiral, and has even been banned from Central Matches.

Before I go any further, i would like to say: My main character is a swashbuckler. I love the heck out of that Fog. I mean, a group hide? heck yeah! However, I cannot deny that it is a very powerful, er, power.

So, here is my compromise on Black Fog for the community to tear apart: First, it should only last 3 turns. second, that X2 damage should be turned into X1.5 Damage. That's actually it. yep. That's all. Not only will this reduce the damage fog can produce, but it will also reduce the wait times when it comes to 2 swashies waiting out eachother's fogs. However, it still provides a significant damage boost, and a more than long enough hide time to buff and heal if necessary.

The subjects of my second compromise are the 2 gear-given 3x3 square summons, the scorpion swarm (from the nefarious staff) and the terror-cotta army, from Machu's Robes.

Again, I have a pirate that uses one of these: my privateer makes excellent use of those scorpions. with buffs, they are quite formidable. However, yet again, this may be a little unbalanced.

However, what could I change here? lower the stats of the summons? By that point they would hardly ever hit anything. Instead, I am suggesting a collection of debuffs/DOTs on the summoner, labeled 'Summoner's Fatigue. the list of things effecting that player could include but are not limited to: the effect of the ability 'Focus Fire', a debuff in each of the SAW stats, A 2-turn, Immobilization, or even a DOT on the Summoner like being poisoned.

Now that I have gone to all the trouble to create these compromises; each of which i find reasonable, I should state: I DO NOT THINK ANY OF THE ABOVE IS NECESSARY. It has always been my opinion that players can, should, and eventually will always find a way to overcome adversity. I do not think any tactic is infallible, and I do not think that whenever we are defeated by something (unless it is the hydra) that we should put the game at fault. I only wrote this whole thing to attempt to alleviate some of the conflict in the community. I hope my points and suggestions here are not misconstrued by any of us, and I wish you all safe travels in the spiral.

-Matthew Walker,
65
65
65
65
33

Well sir, I could not disagree with you more. Until hidden was fixed with the last update and Black Fog became available, it was almost impossible to win at pvp with a Swashbuckler. It is still very difficult to beat the ranged units and Privateers. Black Fog is formidable, yes. But so is Battle Zeal. So is the endless supply of Leviathans Call that Buccaneers have. Reckless Frenzy has ended many battles in the Brawling Hall. How about the abundance of Jobu's Embrace available to Witchdoctors along with the amount of Mourn Song they now can carry? Musketeers have their AoE attacks that damage Bucklers even when hidden and Chantal can blast you twice (doing substantial damage each time) from all the way across the battleboard with her Sniper Shot. To see that Black Fog has been banned in the P101 Central matches convinces me that those who make the rules there should have absolutely no input regarding the rules for ranked pvp when it comes to the game. I don't complain when other classes use their 'bread and butter' powers. I have a fully farmed max level from each class and I think the melee units (Buck and Buckler) are the hardest to win with. Black Fog is just fine the way it is because...

1. It can only be used effectively when your team is clustered together which is usually at the beginning of the battle. To use it and then try to buff, shield and cross the battleboard usually doesn't work out very well.

2. After that first big hit, Swashbucklers are pretty much sitting ducks. We have no health or armor and with the way Bladestorm triggers now, the critical happy Buccaneers do as much or more damage than the Bucklers do.

3. Black Fog is not some magical trick that ensures victory. In fact, if you come to rely too heavily on it, you won't know what to when it doesn't come up...which is quite often.

If you want to talk about OP, lets talk about the Privateer's buffs and heals that affect not only their own crew, but all their allies anywhere on the battleboard.

anecorbie on Jul 8, 2015 wrote:

The 'true' art of PVP ( and I know I may offend some by this statement, it is not aimed at anyone personally ) seems to be farming for high powered gear and over whelming your opponent with the cards available.
Meanwhile, I get 1 group hide and the world wants to take it away or reduce its effectiveness ( and just for PVP ). Sure, I have other hides, but as you pointed out it hides only me. So what about my companions, how am I supposed to protect/buff them?
Also your last statement can be aimed at anyone who uses a signature power. Privateers, do you rely on Fighting Fervor? Musketeers do you rely on your bombs? Witchdoctors, do you rely on Greater Juju? Buccaneers, do you rely on Leviathan?

nope fighting fervor is at the bottom of my 2nd page same with focus fire

TechnomagePvP on Jul 8, 2015 wrote:

So, you're telling everyone here that you need black fog to protect your companions. That is known as relying on the broken materials in the game, so whats the difference if we reduced it to 3 turns and kept the rest the same. But no, you NEED it right? Get the sarcasm? Only recently did Bucklers NEED to have Black Fog, only recently they NEED to use it to win, I mean look at any central match as soon as Bucklers don't get fog they get in some trouble I mean still a good Buckler can win without Fog I mean I've seen players in no rule matches like Harry, Zoe, etc win vs people even like Quentin a top notch Witch, I could go on and on with examples BUT the fact stays the same. You proved my point, you NEED IT, but I'm not saying lets take it away. No I've never said 'lets ban it' from pvp entirely I mean reduce it, nerf it, BALANCE IT. If you leave Fog right how it is, Bucklers will dominate skilless in ranked. Do we want another unbalanced Balance class remake happening in Pirates when we can clearly stop it by reducing a single power by 2 turns?

Well whenever you decide not to constantly complain about us asking for a very small but fair nerf then we can talk. Moo robe will be fine because the Debuffs will have the same update as well as Buffs, Gaze is a whatever just bring a over watch comp, etc. Only thing we need balanced/fixed is the Fog yet I've said my point. It's broken, nothing else to it, it's broken as it is right now. That's a fact.

I'm not talking PVP here. You're talking about taking away something that is a great assistance in PVE. But let me remind you that over 9 months ago swashbuckler 'hides' were the standing joke in PVP. Anyone who had trained Gunnery could remove it.
The simple fact is, for all the vaunted 'skill' of PVP players, they can't handle that Black Fog is now fixed, it's working the way it should; anyone who is denying this is living in a fantasy.
Again I suggest you look at Ratbeards' post in "Non-PVP Gear" for that final answer.

Spiral Cowboy on Jul 9, 2015 wrote:

Dude, I don't know what class you play, but to say it takes no skill to use the Buckler class is laughable. Sounds a little like jealousy to me. Maybe you just haven't figured out how to counter them yet. I have a max from each class and Buckler is not the easiest by any stretch of the imagination and they are not broken. Privateer and Musketeer were the 2 classes easiest to solo with for me. I actually think that Swashbuckler requires more strategy than some of the other classes because we have less variety of powers. We have to farm all of our shields and heals while most of the other classes get them as a matter of course. We can't cower in the corner of the Brawling Hall and launch Gunnery and Mourn Song from all the way across the battleboard like Privateers and Witchdoctors can. We can't make it a suicide run for our enemies to reach us like Musketeers can with their traps and bombs. We can't stack 3 or 4 Leviathans Calls and make ourselves basically impervious to attack like the Buccaneers can. We have to get up close and personal to attack and after we do we're sitting ducks with only our dodge,low health and nonexistent armor standing between us and certain doom. Build yourself a Swashbuckler and charge into the middle of the battleboard during a 4v4. Then tell me that class requires no skill to use. Lol.

Your right all you do is use fog purge then kill there pirate with fan nausica and goro I am a buckler and trust me I love the hide update but I know it's s little over powering i have been doing pvp when mooshu was max and still won top players like musket and privy but once this hide update came out every one started making buckler I wonder why? Any way buckler is the most op class and you know it not saying they should destroy fog by making it 3 turns I think they should change some thing on it to make it take skills to use rather then fogging first turn and destroying any other class also I am the leader of a clan and do 4v4 matches daily I know all the top clan leaders and members and have been in lots of 4v4 and to be honest it's not hard at all so not sure why you think 4v4 is so hard?

Spiral Cowboy on Jul 8, 2015 wrote:

Well sir, I could not disagree with you more. Until hidden was fixed with the last update and Black Fog became available, it was almost impossible to win at pvp with a Swashbuckler. It is still very difficult to beat the ranged units and Privateers. Black Fog is formidable, yes. But so is Battle Zeal. So is the endless supply of Leviathans Call that Buccaneers have. Reckless Frenzy has ended many battles in the Brawling Hall. How about the abundance of Jobu's Embrace available to Witchdoctors along with the amount of Mourn Song they now can carry? Musketeers have their AoE attacks that damage Bucklers even when hidden and Chantal can blast you twice (doing substantial damage each time) from all the way across the battleboard with her Sniper Shot. To see that Black Fog has been banned in the P101 Central matches convinces me that those who make the rules there should have absolutely no input regarding the rules for ranked pvp when it comes to the game. I don't complain when other classes use their 'bread and butter' powers. I have a fully farmed max level from each class and I think the melee units (Buck and Buckler) are the hardest to win with. Black Fog is just fine the way it is because...

1. It can only be used effectively when your team is clustered together which is usually at the beginning of the battle. To use it and then try to buff, shield and cross the battleboard usually doesn't work out very well.

2. After that first big hit, Swashbucklers are pretty much sitting ducks. We have no health or armor and with the way Bladestorm triggers now, the critical happy Buccaneers do as much or more damage than the Bucklers do.

3. Black Fog is not some magical trick that ensures victory. In fact, if you come to rely too heavily on it, you won't know what to when it doesn't come up...which is quite often.

If you want to talk about OP, lets talk about the Privateer's buffs and heals that affect not only their own crew, but all their allies anywhere on the battleboard.

lets talk about how the privateer class is down 1/4 of their attackers right at the start of the battle, lets talk about how only 3 heals do that, and 2 are so weak they almost arent even worth using, lets talk about how privateers buffs work like everyone elses buffs except the jujus since as they are a stronger buff with buffing every stat the range is its nerf.

I don't think there should be anything changed to Black Fog.

Swashbucklers are the only class that don't get any special group buffs, like Discipline or Sky Spirit. All they get to buff themselves is Shadowdance. Even though other pirates can get Walk in Darkness from Moo gear and Ms. LaFitte, the way I see it, Swashbucklers are the only class that really depends on it. So Black Fog is like their "special" power they get to hide their team.

Without Hide at all, Swashbucklers aren't as powerful.

zuto4011a on Jul 9, 2015 wrote:

midnight bandito is easily the best swashbuckler in 1v1 and the only one of his class able to beat me with regular success, i dont believe YOU know how to play buckler if you say its hard, btw if its a 4v4 you have PRIVATEERS to PROTECT you while charging in and dodging nearly every round you arent hidden, please sir, leave the pvp advice to the ones who've dedicated hundreds of hours to it

First of all, it's mam...not sir. Sorry, I know the name can be misleading, but Spiral Cowgirl sounds funny. Secondly, I didn't say playing as a Swashbuckler was hard, I said it wasn't easy. Try reading posts before you reply, sir...or mam...person...whatever. I don't claim to be a top tier Swashbuckler...yet. I've only just recently taken a serious interest in pvp because I've run out of pirate classes to max and gear to farm for. However, I win a lot more than I lose and I get better each time. Besides, let's be honest. Pvp isn't exactly rocket science now, is it. There is less separating the worst from the best than you'd like to admit. Having said that, nobody was born the best. It takes time and practice. I am dedicated to pvp now and practice everyday and soon I will be among the best unless you guys just decide to ban the Swashbuckler class altogether, lol. Also, what's that about having a Privy to protect me? Is that another P101 Central rule? Every team has to have a Privy? I can see it now..."Effective immediately in all P101 Central tournament matches, each team must have one Privateer. This Privateer must wear at least one article of purple or teal colored clothing and may not use a pet that has the name Big Stinky, Little Stinky or King Stinky, except on Tuesdays and Fridays after 3 pm during months that begin with the letter J. Actually, you know what? We're banning any pet name that has Stinky in it at all because it's just too much of a distraction." Lol. Sounds about right. Anyway, I may not be the best Swashbuckler, but I'm closer to being the best than I am to being the worst. My motto is 'any time, any place'. The name is Wicked Erin and I'm easy to find. Just follow the trail of destruction I leave in my wake

Spiral Cowboy on Jul 10, 2015 wrote:

First of all, it's mam...not sir. Sorry, I know the name can be misleading, but Spiral Cowgirl sounds funny. Secondly, I didn't say playing as a Swashbuckler was hard, I said it wasn't easy. Try reading posts before you reply, sir...or mam...person...whatever. I don't claim to be a top tier Swashbuckler...yet. I've only just recently taken a serious interest in pvp because I've run out of pirate classes to max and gear to farm for. However, I win a lot more than I lose and I get better each time. Besides, let's be honest. Pvp isn't exactly rocket science now, is it. There is less separating the worst from the best than you'd like to admit. Having said that, nobody was born the best. It takes time and practice. I am dedicated to pvp now and practice everyday and soon I will be among the best unless you guys just decide to ban the Swashbuckler class altogether, lol. Also, what's that about having a Privy to protect me? Is that another P101 Central rule? Every team has to have a Privy? I can see it now..."Effective immediately in all P101 Central tournament matches, each team must have one Privateer. This Privateer must wear at least one article of purple or teal colored clothing and may not use a pet that has the name Big Stinky, Little Stinky or King Stinky, except on Tuesdays and Fridays after 3 pm during months that begin with the letter J. Actually, you know what? We're banning any pet name that has Stinky in it at all because it's just too much of a distraction." Lol. Sounds about right. Anyway, I may not be the best Swashbuckler, but I'm closer to being the best than I am to being the worst. My motto is 'any time, any place'. The name is Wicked Erin and I'm easy to find. Just follow the trail of destruction I leave in my wake

Oh Bravo, Spiral Cowboy, ( and here I was thinking you're guy ) You captured Central's torturous rules nicely.
A good riposte ( or re-post ).