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Pet Training Revamp

AuthorMessage
Lieutenant
Apr 06, 2016
154
Can we get a different system for pet training. The current pet training system is super tedious. Training a pet for 2 weeks, only for it to fail at level 60/70 is incredibly frustrating.

Dread Pirate
May 27, 2009
2045
I must admit that in today's world, waiting is one of the most difficult things to do. Honestly - how much easier than waiting to feed the pet and assign the next training task can they make it? We can train multiple pets at the same time while doing other things in the game, so worrying about a single pet fail makes no sense.

Morph a FEW pets, so that all of your hopes do not hinge on the same one.


Lieutenant
Apr 06, 2016
154
Willowydream on Jul 21, 2020 wrote:
I must admit that in today's world, waiting is one of the most difficult things to do. Honestly - how much easier than waiting to feed the pet and assign the next training task can they make it? We can train multiple pets at the same time while doing other things in the game, so worrying about a single pet fail makes no sense.

Morph a FEW pets, so that all of your hopes do not hinge on the same one.

Make it kinda like Wizard101's training system, only less reliant on mega snacks, since we don't have the means of getting them without using crowns. That way pet training is more grinding than waiting.

Community Leader
The pet system in this game does need a revamp. I don't particularly care how the revamp is done, but the current system is deeply flawed. This piece I wrote late last year goes in depth about some of the major issues the pet system faces: https://finalbastion.com/pirate101-guides/p101-pet-guides/pirate101-morphing-system-the-odds/

TLDR:
  • In Pirate101, there is a 1/25,200 chance of getting a pet with a perfect 4 talents and perfect 3 powers (assuming all talents are in the pool). Under the same assumptions in Wizard101, there is a 1/42 chance of getting a perfect pet with 6 desired talents (taking jewels into account). Assuming each talent is equally likely to be inherited, or that "stickiness" is a net neutral factor in the overall odds, the Wizard101 system offers odds that are 600 times better.
  • Does the fact we can "compensate" by training multiple pets make the two systems ultimately similar in difficulty to create a pet? No. Take a look at the average enfranchised Wizard101 player. It's very realistic for them to have at least one perfect pet per character. Now look at the same enfranchised Pirate101 player. Do they have any perfect pets? Very unlikely. In my many years of playing both games and PvPing actively for some portion of time in both games, I've seen a handful of perfect pirate pets, even among the most dedicated PvPers and PvE players. In Wizard101, you can walk into the arena at any given time and see a multitude of such perfect pets.
  • On top of the terrible odds we face, every batch of pets we morph takes 2-3 weeks to get to max level. Compare this to the Wizard101 system, where it's now possible to train a pet from Baby to Mega (Ultra if necessary) in mere minutes. Yes, this takes crowns. However, with the pet mastery system you can spam a bunch of games in no time at all. Then, wait for your energy to refill and repeat the process. I fail to see how this new way of training pets in Wizard101 is significantly different than the Pirate101 system. However, in each "session" (read: pet game) in Pirate101 (assuming your pet is level 50+) gains you between 50 and 70 XP. Then you have to wait between 6 and 24 hours to repeat the process. Wizard101 has this same gap in between sessions. However, you can easily get 500+ experience, as long as you use mega snacks (which are easily accessible through gardening). So, to equalize in terms of speed, you need to be training at least 10 pets at once in Pirate101. Furthermore, even without spending on energy elixirs, this process is still quicker for Wizard101 players


The attention the Wizard101 pet system has gotten in the past ~5 years is great and has made attaining perfect pets both realistic and, in my opinion, fairly easy. In Pirate, getting a similarly perfect pet is a pipe dream at best. Why are we pirates left in the dust?

Writer, Editor, Administrator, and Pirate PvP guy at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Commodore
May 31, 2009
888
Matthew525011 on Jul 22, 2020 wrote:
The pet system in this game does need a revamp. I don't particularly care how the revamp is done, but the current system is deeply flawed. This piece I wrote late last year goes in depth about some of the major issues the pet system faces: https://finalbastion.com/pirate101-guides/p101-pet-guides/pirate101-morphing-system-the-odds/

TLDR:
  • In Pirate101, there is a 1/25,200 chance of getting a pet with a perfect 4 talents and perfect 3 powers (assuming all talents are in the pool). Under the same assumptions in Wizard101, there is a 1/42 chance of getting a perfect pet with 6 desired talents (taking jewels into account). Assuming each talent is equally likely to be inherited, or that "stickiness" is a net neutral factor in the overall odds, the Wizard101 system offers odds that are 600 times better.
  • Does the fact we can "compensate" by training multiple pets make the two systems ultimately similar in difficulty to create a pet? No. Take a look at the average enfranchised Wizard101 player. It's very realistic for them to have at least one perfect pet per character. Now look at the same enfranchised Pirate101 player. Do they have any perfect pets? Very unlikely. In my many years of playing both games and PvPing actively for some portion of time in both games, I've seen a handful of perfect pirate pets, even among the most dedicated PvPers and PvE players. In Wizard101, you can walk into the arena at any given time and see a multitude of such perfect pets.
  • On top of the terrible odds we face, every batch of pets we morph takes 2-3 weeks to get to max level. Compare this to the Wizard101 system, where it's now possible to train a pet from Baby to Mega (Ultra if necessary) in mere minutes. Yes, this takes crowns. However, with the pet mastery system you can spam a bunch of games in no time at all. Then, wait for your energy to refill and repeat the process. I fail to see how this new way of training pets in Wizard101 is significantly different than the Pirate101 system. However, in each "session" (read: pet game) in Pirate101 (assuming your pet is level 50+) gains you between 50 and 70 XP. Then you have to wait between 6 and 24 hours to repeat the process. Wizard101 has this same gap in between sessions. However, you can easily get 500+ experience, as long as you use mega snacks (which are easily accessible through gardening). So, to equalize in terms of speed, you need to be training at least 10 pets at once in Pirate101. Furthermore, even without spending on energy elixirs, this process is still quicker for Wizard101 players


The attention the Wizard101 pet system has gotten in the past ~5 years is great and has made attaining perfect pets both realistic and, in my opinion, fairly easy. In Pirate, getting a similarly perfect pet is a pipe dream at best. Why are we pirates left in the dust?
Imho the only reason one would need a “perfect” pet is for PvP. It’s possible to make a pet with a good talent mix even if it’s not 100% the one you want. I’ve never spent real money on P101 pets and I’m quite satisfied with all of my intentionally-morphed pets. To effectively train pets in W101 you need access to crowns to purchase the plants that drop mega snacks unless you’re lucky with drops, and to buy energy elixirs. Only people (read: teens/adults) with that spare cash to spend are actually going to be competitive in pet training/hatching. P101 offers a more laid back approach because pet grants aren’t the end all be all for your pirate - increasingly W101 has seen harder content that makes stat-granting pets more and more important. P101’s system allows for “garbage” pets to still be mildly useful. While I agree the odds of getting a “perfect” pet are low and that there could be something to be done to adjust that, I don’t think it’s “deeply flawed” just because it requires a little more patience and flexibility.

Community Leader
MistyDragon13 on Jul 22, 2020 wrote:
Imho the only reason one would need a “perfect” pet is for PvP. It’s possible to make a pet with a good talent mix even if it’s not 100% the one you want. I’ve never spent real money on P101 pets and I’m quite satisfied with all of my intentionally-morphed pets. To effectively train pets in W101 you need access to crowns to purchase the plants that drop mega snacks unless you’re lucky with drops, and to buy energy elixirs. Only people (read: teens/adults) with that spare cash to spend are actually going to be competitive in pet training/hatching. P101 offers a more laid back approach because pet grants aren’t the end all be all for your pirate - increasingly W101 has seen harder content that makes stat-granting pets more and more important. P101’s system allows for “garbage” pets to still be mildly useful. While I agree the odds of getting a “perfect” pet are low and that there could be something to be done to adjust that, I don’t think it’s “deeply flawed” just because it requires a little more patience and flexibility.
1. PvPers are a significant part of the enfranchised Pirate101 community. The system should allow all players to achieve their goals in a reasonable time time frame. I don't think it's correct to simply dismiss their concerns. On top of that, there are many people who just make pets for fun and want to make them as good as possible. In fact, many of the community's most devout morphers fall into this category. I'm sure they would appreciate their goals being more achievable

2. I'd push back on the notion that you have to pay or be lucky with drops to get good Wizard101 pets. There are one-round mob fights that drop top tier plants. It just takes some time to get what you need from them. Plus many random mobs throughout arcs 2 and 3 drop these same plants. It's very much realistic to have the start of a good garden after completing the main storyline.

3. This isn't a case of requiring a little more patience and flexibility. There is a 600-fold difference between the two systems. Furthermore, as I address in my piece, let's say you only want 3 talents and 2 powers to be perfect (basically, you're ok with one fail on each side of the pool). The odds of getting such a pet come out to .2%, or 1/500. This is still nearly a 10-fold difference compared to the Wizard101 system.

Writer, Editor, Administrator, and Pirate PvP guy at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Dread Pirate
May 27, 2009
2045
Does the fact we can "compensate" by training multiple pets make the two systems ultimately similar in difficulty to create a pet? No. Take a look at the average enfranchised Wizard101 player. It's very realistic for them to have at least one perfect pet per character. Now look at the same enfranchised Pirate101 player. Do they have any perfect pets? Very unlikely. In my many years of playing both games and PvPing actively for some portion of time in both games, I've seen a handful of perfect pirate pets, even among the most dedicated PvPers and PvE players. In Wizard101, you can walk into the arena at any given time and see a multitude of such perfect pets.

The Wizard101 Talent system devotes only half of the talents to gameplay, while the other half are Derby Talents. This makes a huge difference. ALL Pirate101 pet talents and power slots can be manipulated for gameplay. A perfect pet is in the eye of the beholder, and in this game's questing, a good-enough pet is sufficient.

I believe that training multiple pets at once is a huge advantage, however, I do agree that the time factor for higher levels does prohibit making a PvP-ready pet quickly without a significant investment of Crowns. Since I don't PvP, I can't comment on how many players have devoted time to such pets, but I'd hazard a guess that serious PvP'ers do, and casual players don't -- this is true for both games.

I would love to see Pet Wranglin' at Level 70 give pirates a chance to receive mega snacks instead of Pet Eggs. I honestly have sold thousands of eggs received by my pirates over the years. New players may need them, but established players don't need more Ebon Spectres or Royal Ibises. This small change could make a significant difference to max-level PvP'ers ability to morph and train pets, without having to change the entire pet system, just that one companion task.


Admiral
May 30, 2010
1213
DariusMusk on Jul 21, 2020 wrote:
Make it kinda like Wizard101's training system, only less reliant on mega snacks, since we don't have the means of getting them without using crowns. That way pet training is more grinding than waiting.
Oh, lord, no. Playing the same tedious games over and over when I could be out doing stuff in-game? No.

Unless you mean the part where once you've bored yourself to tears so many times you can skip the annoying game and just shove a snack down the pet's throat for energy points? I could handle that...

Commodore
May 31, 2009
888
Matthew525011 on Jul 22, 2020 wrote:
1. PvPers are a significant part of the enfranchised Pirate101 community. The system should allow all players to achieve their goals in a reasonable time time frame. I don't think it's correct to simply dismiss their concerns. On top of that, there are many people who just make pets for fun and want to make them as good as possible. In fact, many of the community's most devout morphers fall into this category. I'm sure they would appreciate their goals being more achievable

2. I'd push back on the notion that you have to pay or be lucky with drops to get good Wizard101 pets. There are one-round mob fights that drop top tier plants. It just takes some time to get what you need from them. Plus many random mobs throughout arcs 2 and 3 drop these same plants. It's very much realistic to have the start of a good garden after completing the main storyline.

3. This isn't a case of requiring a little more patience and flexibility. There is a 600-fold difference between the two systems. Furthermore, as I address in my piece, let's say you only want 3 talents and 2 powers to be perfect (basically, you're ok with one fail on each side of the pool). The odds of getting such a pet come out to .2%, or 1/500. This is still nearly a 10-fold difference compared to the Wizard101 system.
1. Where did I “dismiss” PvP players? I quite clearly said that good pets can be made even without too much investment, and agreed the time frame should be reduced.

2. I deeply disagree with the concept that W101 pets are anything but a time and cash sink. The more recent adjustments including the hatching kiosk make it significantly easier, sure, but in order to judge it fairly you have to think about the time you invest in gold farming and gardening to get anywhere, not to mention the time/cost of hatching to get parent pets that will produce your desired pet. Maybe you’re exceptionally successful in having the resources on hand to begin the training process - but if you want it to go quickly, you’re still going to have to sink money into energy elixirs while you grind through minigames.

3. You also claim in your article you simplify the systems and don’t take into account ‘sticky’ powers/talents, which I’ve found my lines to have several of (though whether it’s game mechanics or simply coincidence, I’m not sure). If one or two of those just so happen to be desired traits, well, I’m sure you can connect the dots.

And just to reiterate, as both games are different in terms of what pets can do & are important for, and the two systems rely on vastly different things in terms of trait manifestation, I don’t think comparing the odds of pet success to each other is really fair.