Witchdoctor AOE hit rate.

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AuthorMessage
Ensign
May 07, 2009
14
I think I've figured out why my witchy companions with AOE attacks hit less often then melee/ranged.

It seems that when you have more then 1 target with a base attack(Non-card), you roll a hit check against every mob in the AOE.

SO let's see why this is a problem.

say we have a 75% chance to hit, just for ease
base attack/melee/ranged are all 75% chance to hit.

2 mob AOE .75 x .75 = .5625 or 75% of the time you'll hit the first mob, 75% of the original 75%, or 56.25% of the time you actually get a successful attack

3 mob AOE .75 x.75 x.75 = 421875 or you should just not try this as you've already lost over 30% of your chance to attack

Yes. I understand you are hitting more then one target. Yet, if you are gona set the miss rate that much higher by not letting each individual attack hit on its own, then some compensation should be found in say a 25% damage increase, or just take the average defense of all Mobs in the AOE and make one success or fail roll. RNG is a SOB. Trying to get it to be predictable over the 3+ hits is insane. Please.

Community Leader
Interesting.
It was my understanding that hit/miss of an AOE was based on the targeted mob (ie the one in the middle). The other mobs are just in "range" of the AOE.

Unless this has been changed.

Dr Zeppers (aka Silent Sam Stern)
Piratey parodies I like to make.
I be a crazy pirate for goodness sake!
Artist & Admin of Skull Island TV
Ensign
May 07, 2009
14
If you notice when you fizzle it will show which ever mob you fizzled against in the AOE. From what I've seen at least this does not have to be the one in the middle and most of the time you can tell it will be a fizzle before it says because you will have 2 or more targeted and it will only show the resister. If any of this doesn't mesh with what your seeing let me know, information on this game is sketchy at best and most about a year old.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 10, 2009
6079
drwe on Dec 20, 2013 wrote:
If you notice when you fizzle it will show which ever mob you fizzled against in the AOE. From what I've seen at least this does not have to be the one in the middle and most of the time you can tell it will be a fizzle before it says because you will have 2 or more targeted and it will only show the resister. If any of this doesn't mesh with what your seeing let me know, information on this game is sketchy at best and most about a year old.
How does it show you?

Ensign
May 07, 2009
14
It shows targets by fading out other mobs to invisibility.

Ensign
May 07, 2009
14
Also, since it was brought up that you roll a resist check against the center target only, I have been testing this as much as I can get myself in situations to do so. I targeted the center block on a crate, with 2 AOE splash targets. The crate and third targets faded to near invisibility, and the second target gave the resist notification. I would like to thank everyone who's helping me out with this also. I would really like to see a lot of information verified about this game, but it seems that everything is based on observations or just old, like don't know if anything thing to do with it has been patched, old.

Administrator
Ratbeard has talked a couple times about this: here and here.

"There is one attack roll made, and you either hit them all, or you miss them all."

*One-Eyed Jack, Your Pirate101 Community Manager*
Ensign
May 07, 2009
14
Post from 8 months and I don't know how many updates ago. . .Ratbeard: "It doesn't matter how dodgy they are, you have the same chance to HIT or FIZZLE."

Does this mean there is no effect from accuracy buffs on the caster or dodge debuffs on the target because I find that to be VERY HARD to believe with my current play testing.

Posts from 2012 . . . Ratbeard: "But when the attack is blocked it often isn't the one that I targeted that is shown to be blocking.

I'll have to check into that. That would be unusual, since the animation system isn't set up to do anything like that.

There is one attack roll made, and you either hit them all, or you miss them all.

Notwithstanding the new programming we would have to invoke to do otherwise, I'm satisfied that it's perfectly "fair" as is."

Is he still checking into this? Is it how me and the other player have seen it to be working which is not as intended, as per Ratbeard? Thanks for the links to the old information Jack! Just looking for some clarification from this month. I guess if this is all the information I get, I'll deal. Just looking for some Clarity.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 10, 2009
6079
One-Eyed Jack on Dec 23, 2013 wrote:
Ratbeard has talked a couple times about this: here and here.

"There is one attack roll made, and you either hit them all, or you miss them all."
Thanks so much Jack. It was a good reminder on the first one and I don't think I ever caught the second one before (either that or my memory has some serious holes, lol) so it was great info to have that a witchdoctors AOE spells are not affected by their target's dodge, just the fizzle probability is all that makes or breaks it. Great stuff Ratbeard.

Petty Officer
Sep 24, 2013
97
Basically, according to Ratbeard if a Witchdoctor's attack doesn't Fizzle it should hit, but lately on my Old Scratch he starts to do the attack and the enemy dodges it. Just seems unfair that witchdoctors can have their attacks miss twice (once from fizzle and once from their attacks being dodged like other classes' attacks).

Administrator
drwe on Dec 23, 2013 wrote:
Post from 8 months and I don't know how many updates ago. . .Ratbeard: "It doesn't matter how dodgy they are, you have the same chance to HIT or FIZZLE."

Does this mean there is no effect from accuracy buffs on the caster or dodge debuffs on the target because I find that to be VERY HARD to believe with my current play testing.

Posts from 2012 . . . Ratbeard: "But when the attack is blocked it often isn't the one that I targeted that is shown to be blocking.

I'll have to check into that. That would be unusual, since the animation system isn't set up to do anything like that.

There is one attack roll made, and you either hit them all, or you miss them all.

Notwithstanding the new programming we would have to invoke to do otherwise, I'm satisfied that it's perfectly "fair" as is."

Is he still checking into this? Is it how me and the other player have seen it to be working which is not as intended, as per Ratbeard? Thanks for the links to the old information Jack! Just looking for some clarification from this month. I guess if this is all the information I get, I'll deal. Just looking for some Clarity.
Fear not! Yesterday right after I posted my response I also forwarded a link to this post to my buddy Ratbeard to bring his attention to it knowing that I was quoting older information (which I believe is still true). Unfortunately the timing right now might not be the best to ask those questions as the holidays are upon us.

Let's keep track of it though and discuss it in more depth soon.

*One-Eyed Jack, Your Pirate101 Community Manager*
Ensign
May 07, 2009
14
YAY! Jack wins again. Happy Ho Ho everyone, and thanks again Jack.

First Mate
Oct 15, 2012
449
Ensign
Nov 26, 2012
24
pirate101 lover on Dec 24, 2013 wrote:
I what does aoe stand for?
Area of effect.

Ensign
May 07, 2009
14
AOE is a game anagram standing for Area Of Effect. As it is something that has an area that it affects not just a single target.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 10, 2009
6079
pirate101 lover on Dec 24, 2013 wrote:
I what does aoe stand for?
Area of Effect or how many the attack hits.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 10, 2009
6079
Jack, along the same lines as double checking this with Ratbeard...
I have been noticing that there are times with my Witchdoctor companions hits are actually dodged and that is when Jobu's Ruse kicks in. So, as Victor stated, they can fizzle and they get dodged. I know that some of their hits are undodgeable like the AOE ones, that I believe is the "hit all or miss all" shot, but it is when they go into Mojo Echo that the dodging is happening the most but I have seen that dodge happen on a non 'Echo' shot, so now I am terribly confused.
Once things calm down I would love to learn how all this really works.

First Mate
Oct 15, 2012
449
Chrissy Th'Blesser on Dec 25, 2013 wrote:
Jack, along the same lines as double checking this with Ratbeard...
I have been noticing that there are times with my Witchdoctor companions hits are actually dodged and that is when Jobu's Ruse kicks in. So, as Victor stated, they can fizzle and they get dodged. I know that some of their hits are undodgeable like the AOE ones, that I believe is the "hit all or miss all" shot, but it is when they go into Mojo Echo that the dodging is happening the most but I have seen that dodge happen on a non 'Echo' shot, so now I am terribly confused.
Once things calm down I would love to learn how all this really works.
Thanks for explains aoe guys!

Petty Officer
Sep 24, 2013
97
Chrissy Th'Blesser on Dec 25, 2013 wrote:
Jack, along the same lines as double checking this with Ratbeard...
I have been noticing that there are times with my Witchdoctor companions hits are actually dodged and that is when Jobu's Ruse kicks in. So, as Victor stated, they can fizzle and they get dodged. I know that some of their hits are undodgeable like the AOE ones, that I believe is the "hit all or miss all" shot, but it is when they go into Mojo Echo that the dodging is happening the most but I have seen that dodge happen on a non 'Echo' shot, so now I am terribly confused.
Once things calm down I would love to learn how all this really works.
I forgot to mention my Old Scratch's very first attack with Improved Mojo Blast 2 was the attack being dodged not his Mojo Echo attacks (but those can be dodged as well). Only attacks I know that are undodgeable are power card attacks (e.g. Mormo's Mojo Storm now) that will never miss.

Developer
Nothing's changed with the AOE's. You either hit them all or you miss them all.

A "fizzle" is the same as a "dodge" or a "block." They're all misses. The only difference between fizzle, dodge, and block is what animation plays, and who plays it (the attacking witchdoctor or his target). There are lots of things that can affect what animation plays-- what attack type it is, the damage roll, the attacker's suite of animations, and the defender's suite of animations. There's lots of different ways that we cross-reference animation tables to show you the result.

But none of those cross-references actually changes what happened. As far as combat is concerned, it's the same result: you "missed." The combat results are all determined by the server, and those results are then sent to your client (your window into the game) which determines what animations to play.

There are not two rolls (there's not a fizzle roll followed by a hit roll).

A witchdoctor attacking via a single-target approach (which would include mojo echo) *does* have to factor in the target's dodge.

A witchdoctor attacking via an AOE attack does not use any dodge value from any of the targets. I've verified this myself (as I set it to work that way) but I'll double check with my counterpart on the programming side to make sure there's nothing sneaky-sneaky going on behind the scenes unbeknownst to me. (After we both return from our family holidays, of course).

Pirate Overlord
Mar 10, 2009
6079
Ratbeard on Dec 26, 2013 wrote:
Nothing's changed with the AOE's. You either hit them all or you miss them all.

A "fizzle" is the same as a "dodge" or a "block." They're all misses. The only difference between fizzle, dodge, and block is what animation plays, and who plays it (the attacking witchdoctor or his target). There are lots of things that can affect what animation plays-- what attack type it is, the damage roll, the attacker's suite of animations, and the defender's suite of animations. There's lots of different ways that we cross-reference animation tables to show you the result.

But none of those cross-references actually changes what happened. As far as combat is concerned, it's the same result: you "missed." The combat results are all determined by the server, and those results are then sent to your client (your window into the game) which determines what animations to play.

There are not two rolls (there's not a fizzle roll followed by a hit roll).

A witchdoctor attacking via a single-target approach (which would include mojo echo) *does* have to factor in the target's dodge.

A witchdoctor attacking via an AOE attack does not use any dodge value from any of the targets. I've verified this myself (as I set it to work that way) but I'll double check with my counterpart on the programming side to make sure there's nothing sneaky-sneaky going on behind the scenes unbeknownst to me. (After we both return from our family holidays, of course).
That helps me a lot (As usual from you ) Thank you so much Ratbeard. I have a much better understanding of what is happening now. There are not extra misses for witchdoctors, it's just a variety of ways of showing the allotted misses, be it fizzle or dodge, etc. You programing guys that design these fights are brilliant. So many factors to keep straight and so many things going on behind the curtain that we never know about. That is until now..............Thanks to our faithful Ratbeard. Your sacrifice of time during this busy season to satiate our curiosity does not go unnoticed and this pirate is extremely grateful.
Same goes for you too Jack.
And all the other hard workers that we never get to see. Well done, all of you.
*Gives a deep bow with a perfectly executed Anne Radcliffeish flourish of her hat.*

Ensign
May 07, 2009
14
Thank you for the post during the Holidays! So does this mean that the random target doing the fizzle animation is just that. A random one of the targets doing the animation instead of all of them? Secondly does accuracy effect fizzle rolls, since it appears that Bonnie dodge debuff does nothing?

Petty Officer
Sep 24, 2013
97
drwe on Dec 27, 2013 wrote:
Thank you for the post during the Holidays! So does this mean that the random target doing the fizzle animation is just that. A random one of the targets doing the animation instead of all of them? Secondly does accuracy effect fizzle rolls, since it appears that Bonnie dodge debuff does nothing?
I don't think Bonnie's dodge debuff does nothing, but I am interested to know exactly how much it reduces enemies' dodge by? I think this should show up on her power card as well. But if I had to guess I'd say 10%.

Bosun
Jan 02, 2012
302
drwe on Dec 20, 2013 wrote:
I think I've figured out why my witchy companions with AOE attacks hit less often then melee/ranged.

It seems that when you have more then 1 target with a base attack(Non-card), you roll a hit check against every mob in the AOE.

SO let's see why this is a problem.

say we have a 75% chance to hit, just for ease
base attack/melee/ranged are all 75% chance to hit.

2 mob AOE .75 x .75 = .5625 or 75% of the time you'll hit the first mob, 75% of the original 75%, or 56.25% of the time you actually get a successful attack

3 mob AOE .75 x.75 x.75 = 421875 or you should just not try this as you've already lost over 30% of your chance to attack

Yes. I understand you are hitting more then one target. Yet, if you are gona set the miss rate that much higher by not letting each individual attack hit on its own, then some compensation should be found in say a 25% damage increase, or just take the average defense of all Mobs in the AOE and make one success or fail roll. RNG is a SOB. Trying to get it to be predictable over the 3+ hits is insane. Please.
Your Dr. crew can't train their accuracy up.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 10, 2009
6079
drwe on Dec 27, 2013 wrote:
Thank you for the post during the Holidays! So does this mean that the random target doing the fizzle animation is just that. A random one of the targets doing the animation instead of all of them? Secondly does accuracy effect fizzle rolls, since it appears that Bonnie dodge debuff does nothing?
Ahh I suspect that your using the word appears is the important factor here. It may appear to you that it doesn't do anything but I have seen misses in general really slow when she does this. Perhaps Ratbeard could educate us on just how much effect that scattershot has

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