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Swashbucklers too overpowered

AuthorMessage
Developer
Masonpeev on Aug 18, 2015 wrote:
If I don't get handed an easy win then why do they get to have an easy win? and yes thats true now that we can shield stack (which i'm very thankful for) we CAN counter them, but they can still easily destroy our companions within the first 3 rounds and then hide again while applying poisons which go past our buccaneer shields
You have repeatedly stated that you simply refuse to use any of the tools at your disposal to make their win more difficult.

It's also easy for Buccaneers to get an easy win if the opponent doesn't do anything to keep you from charging across the board and epic-chaining them to death. Have you noticed that buccaneers are uniquely designed to get lots of chain talents and free, automatic boosts to keep them going?

Every class gets an easy win if they are allowed to make full use of their class advantages and the opponent does nothing to adjust their defense to mitigate them.

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Ratbeard on Aug 21, 2015 wrote:
You have repeatedly stated that you simply refuse to use any of the tools at your disposal to make their win more difficult.

It's also easy for Buccaneers to get an easy win if the opponent doesn't do anything to keep you from charging across the board and epic-chaining them to death. Have you noticed that buccaneers are uniquely designed to get lots of chain talents and free, automatic boosts to keep them going?

Every class gets an easy win if they are allowed to make full use of their class advantages and the opponent does nothing to adjust their defense to mitigate them.
Now of course I know buccaneers can chain very well with epics I'm rank paragon in ranked pvp BUT we can't charge when someone uses black fog to make them hidden OR uses the moo manchu companions which will have hold the line creating a barrier between me and them

Ensign
Oct 18, 2009
17
i know right, bucklers be like fog, CURSE, assassin, then hide again
bleeds till death with no HEALS, thanks to curse

Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
Masonpeev on Aug 21, 2015 wrote:
Now of course I know buccaneers can chain very well with epics I'm rank paragon in ranked pvp BUT we can't charge when someone uses black fog to make them hidden OR uses the moo manchu companions which will have hold the line creating a barrier between me and them
If you focus on what you can't do vs certain classes/powers, since the only key to winning ANY match is focusing and executing to the best of your ability what you can do.

PvP isn't a "strategy" competition. PvP is solely one's ability to adapt, react, and effectively punish their opponent's attempt to "gain higher ground" in the war of options.

If your opponent can only do one of two things if they want to "life to fight another day (few rounds)", you have done yourself justice if you have forced yourself into a position where you are able to "punish" either option they have, thus making your path to victory easier. It is like knowing you will fight class "W" and you can chose your best counter from class "X", "Y" or "Z". Odds have it that you will pick the class that "W" will have the most difficulty with.

I would say that is basically all there is to PvP, and wouldn't go back and add anything to that foundation.

If you have been able to make it to paragon, clearly something you've done HAS been effective so far. However, I would question your ability to continue up the mountain to champion if you, after knowing what your weaknesses are, are still struggling with them and what you for the most part would know to expect.

Ensign
May 23, 2015
33
Ratbeard on Aug 3, 2015 wrote:
Yep.
Am I understanding this correctly or am I mistaken in your comment? Valor's shield can stack again? Where are the patch notes in the updates so we can see what you are changing? This guessing and finding out the hard way is driving me crazy. I think you developers are being a bit unfair. While I know you are working hard to balance PVP especially for the first season it was bound to have issues; however, keeping us informed would be considered due diligence. I am a programmer I don't go around making changes and not informing my clients of the change. We have less than a month to develop some sort of strategy.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9325
tenmaxz11 on Aug 21, 2015 wrote:
i know right, bucklers be like fog, CURSE, assassin, then hide again
bleeds till death with no HEALS, thanks to curse
Between the assassin's strike and the hide the swashbuckler is exposed to attack, it is therefore on you to take him/her down.

Developer
Mike888b on Aug 22, 2015 wrote:
Am I understanding this correctly or am I mistaken in your comment? Valor's shield can stack again? Where are the patch notes in the updates so we can see what you are changing? This guessing and finding out the hard way is driving me crazy. I think you developers are being a bit unfair. While I know you are working hard to balance PVP especially for the first season it was bound to have issues; however, keeping us informed would be considered due diligence. I am a programmer I don't go around making changes and not informing my clients of the change. We have less than a month to develop some sort of strategy.
https://www.pirate101.com/free_game/update_notes

While the update was up on Test, we tested restrictions on defense stacking, but backed off before the update went Live. As far as the Live service goes, Valor is unchanged from before the update. (Ditto for the Leviathan's Call line.)

Test Realm is great for players for getting the first look at changes, and it's great for KI to get player feedback and bug reports, but it is a test environment.

As due diligence goes, you're absolutely correct, and we (developers, QA, producers, and community managers) do our best to make sure that all changes are communicated. That process is not perfect, but such as it is, it is aimed primarily at making sure that the changes that go Live are communicated correctly. Things on test can change back and forth dramatically and communicating all of those changes would probably cause more confusion than not.

As this example perhaps illustrates.

To a player who never checks the forums or logs into the Test Realm, Valor's is working exactly the same as always.

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Wolf SkullRider on Aug 21, 2015 wrote:
If you focus on what you can't do vs certain classes/powers, since the only key to winning ANY match is focusing and executing to the best of your ability what you can do.

PvP isn't a "strategy" competition. PvP is solely one's ability to adapt, react, and effectively punish their opponent's attempt to "gain higher ground" in the war of options.

If your opponent can only do one of two things if they want to "life to fight another day (few rounds)", you have done yourself justice if you have forced yourself into a position where you are able to "punish" either option they have, thus making your path to victory easier. It is like knowing you will fight class "W" and you can chose your best counter from class "X", "Y" or "Z". Odds have it that you will pick the class that "W" will have the most difficulty with.

I would say that is basically all there is to PvP, and wouldn't go back and add anything to that foundation.

If you have been able to make it to paragon, clearly something you've done HAS been effective so far. However, I would question your ability to continue up the mountain to champion if you, after knowing what your weaknesses are, are still struggling with them and what you for the most part would know to expect.
Whetever i've done has been effective vs privateer witchdoctor and buccaneer, swashbuckler is like a 50/50 chance of winning

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
anecorbie on Aug 23, 2015 wrote:
Between the assassin's strike and the hide the swashbuckler is exposed to attack, it is therefore on you to take him/her down.
Totally, when they probably have a valor's fortress up and will just hide and heal the next round

Ensign
Oct 18, 2009
17
i mean like seriously what do you do when they go hide and just start buffing with no cost
i just stand there and watch, hide then heal, buff, then finally assassin me then go back to hide again.
i mean is that even pvp anymore? i'm just standing there, watching them do as they please

Ensign
Oct 18, 2009
17
i agree with the idea of making a season ranking chart
i really want to see which class has the most champion ranking
if it clearly shows swashbuckler, i'm done with pvp there's not point in even trying

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9325
Masonpeev on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
Totally, when they probably have a valor's fortress up and will just hide and heal the next round
No matter how good that fort is, it won't stand up to a complete assault from Peter, Barnabus and Kobe.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9325
tenmaxz11 on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
i mean like seriously what do you do when they go hide and just start buffing with no cost
i just stand there and watch, hide then heal, buff, then finally assassin me then go back to hide again.
i mean is that even pvp anymore? i'm just standing there, watching them do as they please
You actually just stand there and watch? You deserve to lose, then. And I'm not going to tell you guys anymore how to fight bucklers.

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
anecorbie on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
No matter how good that fort is, it won't stand up to a complete assault from Peter, Barnabus and Kobe.
Anercobie, By the time its left to one person left my companions are all dead, and I can't charge you when you're in fog

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
anecorbie on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
You actually just stand there and watch? You deserve to lose, then. And I'm not going to tell you guys anymore how to fight bucklers.
Well all we can do is shield and heal

Developer
Masonpeev on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
Well all we can do is shield and heal
Shield and heal and raise barricades and move towards your scent pet and drop bombs or traps and hit them with AoEs and poison them and buff your stats to prevent chains and summon some cannon fodder and change formation and divide their forces and hide yourself and attack their companions and run away.

Lieutenant
May 09, 2013
157
anecorbie on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
No matter how good that fort is, it won't stand up to a complete assault from Peter, Barnabus and Kobe.
The fort isn't even the problem. Swashbucklers usually have around 140 dodge on average. A top level player will also have elusive three. Then the moo robe minions cut your accuracy in half. Even if I save all my super hits from pete, barnabus, and kobe, that will not kill a swashbuckler, even without shields. Then after the initial hit, blade storm and relentless all miss and the swashbuckler hits me back with ripostes.

The other thing is, if I used pete, barnabus, and kobe, only one of them has first strike three. Most likely one of them will get killed when my opponent comes out of the fog. Which means only two companions are attacking the buckler, not three.

I'm not trying to imply that high dodge and riposte is overpowered. But claiming that killing a swashbuckler character in one turn is easy or can be consistently done is a myth that all the top players are proving wrong.

The best way I see to take down a buckler right now is to pack more shields than they have hidden powers and hope the poison alone doesn't kill you.

Petty Officer
Jun 09, 2015
63
Masonpeev on Jul 18, 2015 wrote:
I have been facing some serious difficulties in this test realm as a buccaneer doing PvP. First of all, we now cannot shield stack which puts a huge huge hole in our defense, and on top of that we can't debuff stack either, which is also a key part of our strategy. This has come for me to say that buccaneer is extremely weak whereas swashbuckler has turned into a no brainer class, all they have to do is go into black fog, (which is still 2x for 5 round when it should be 1.5x for 5 rounds) then apply a curse onto you and your companions, and then all 4 people on the opposing side will just take down your captain, and then they can just easily destroy your companions. Some people may say that you can counter this by going into hidden yourself but if you do this then what the swashbuckler is going to do is kill off your companions, then its 1 vs 4, how is this fair? Not to mention this also destroys privateers because they also, again, shield stack so that they can defend themselves against swashbucklers, but now, there is absolutely no way of defense against this extremely overpowered class
i am a level 60 swashbuckler and i can barely beat level 55s computers alot of times i just stand there in the game or go fight and die do you think its that easy well its not sometimes i wish i was a buccaneer or anything else but a swashbuckler its not that easy you should try to be in a swashbuckler shoes and let me tell you its not easy are biggest threat to you are things like first strike and the thing like the attack if you miss a short way of saying it is WE DIE ALOT

Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
826
Ratbeard on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
Shield and heal and raise barricades and move towards your scent pet and drop bombs or traps and hit them with AoEs and poison them and buff your stats to prevent chains and summon some cannon fodder and change formation and divide their forces and hide yourself and attack their companions and run away.
a list that long means your opponent is afk, scent pet doesnt always show up and training a pet with it in its talent pool isnt always a guarantee, poison thats kind of a buckler thing, aoes cant cause i gotta shield for that fog, cannon fodder moves away from hidden foes, change formation, cant corner at all your always vunerable, attack their companions you mean charge a buckler that can fog instantly and run across the board leaving that charging companion useless for 1-2 round and possibly dead from ripostes

Lieutenant
Feb 13, 2013
135
bluba4 on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
The fort isn't even the problem. Swashbucklers usually have around 140 dodge on average. A top level player will also have elusive three. Then the moo robe minions cut your accuracy in half. Even if I save all my super hits from pete, barnabus, and kobe, that will not kill a swashbuckler, even without shields. Then after the initial hit, blade storm and relentless all miss and the swashbuckler hits me back with ripostes.

The other thing is, if I used pete, barnabus, and kobe, only one of them has first strike three. Most likely one of them will get killed when my opponent comes out of the fog. Which means only two companions are attacking the buckler, not three.

I'm not trying to imply that high dodge and riposte is overpowered. But claiming that killing a swashbuckler character in one turn is easy or can be consistently done is a myth that all the top players are proving wrong.

The best way I see to take down a buckler right now is to pack more shields than they have hidden powers and hope the poison alone doesn't kill you.
Turn the tide pirate you will combo the buckler np I can tell from your post you don't know a lot about pvp.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9325
bluba4 on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
The fort isn't even the problem. Swashbucklers usually have around 140 dodge on average. A top level player will also have elusive three. Then the moo robe minions cut your accuracy in half. Even if I save all my super hits from pete, barnabus, and kobe, that will not kill a swashbuckler, even without shields. Then after the initial hit, blade storm and relentless all miss and the swashbuckler hits me back with ripostes.

The other thing is, if I used pete, barnabus, and kobe, only one of them has first strike three. Most likely one of them will get killed when my opponent comes out of the fog. Which means only two companions are attacking the buckler, not three.

I'm not trying to imply that high dodge and riposte is overpowered. But claiming that killing a swashbuckler character in one turn is easy or can be consistently done is a myth that all the top players are proving wrong.

The best way I see to take down a buckler right now is to pack more shields than they have hidden powers and hope the poison alone doesn't kill you.
You, at least, have not given up and are trying to think out a strategy. Not every Buckler has the Moo Robes.
I will admit that the majority do fog, shroud then strike ( because it has worked for them ).

Ensign
Oct 18, 2009
17
lol talk about heals
once they shroud you, you can't even "heal"
i mean like seriously, they just hide, shroud(curse), assassin, go back to hiding again, fort and then come back out to assassin you again and repeat this pattern till you loose.
no matter how much defense you put on, it won't matter. The only way to win in battles is for your HP to drop to zero and it's pretty much a guarantee it will thanks to shroud for Five whole turns without heals
so technically you are "standing" there, waiting to get bleed, and poison to death

Ensign
Jun 03, 2013
1
swashbuckler They don't have nearly enough armor or buffs .. As the rest of the characters do, so it's a bit unfair... They need to either make the Swashbucklers stronger or give them more and/or better items to help in pvp !!

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
Ratbeard on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
Shield and heal and raise barricades and move towards your scent pet and drop bombs or traps and hit them with AoEs and poison them and buff your stats to prevent chains and summon some cannon fodder and change formation and divide their forces and hide yourself and attack their companions and run away.
Well If I was a Musketeer which I have one I'd do this But as for the "attack and run away" I don't really have the option of doing this if they get fog up first turn and then kill my companions first, and Its not like I can run away either since swashbucklers have the highest foot range in the game

Lieutenant
Nov 28, 2014
138
bluba4 on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
The fort isn't even the problem. Swashbucklers usually have around 140 dodge on average. A top level player will also have elusive three. Then the moo robe minions cut your accuracy in half. Even if I save all my super hits from pete, barnabus, and kobe, that will not kill a swashbuckler, even without shields. Then after the initial hit, blade storm and relentless all miss and the swashbuckler hits me back with ripostes.

The other thing is, if I used pete, barnabus, and kobe, only one of them has first strike three. Most likely one of them will get killed when my opponent comes out of the fog. Which means only two companions are attacking the buckler, not three.

I'm not trying to imply that high dodge and riposte is overpowered. But claiming that killing a swashbuckler character in one turn is easy or can be consistently done is a myth that all the top players are proving wrong.

The best way I see to take down a buckler right now is to pack more shields than they have hidden powers and hope the poison alone doesn't kill you.
"and hope the poison alone doesn't kill you" One critical-ed poison can do a serious amount of damage so coming with Fortresses is ideal, and thats true, if you face a swashbuckler with moo robe you're going to get brought down to half health by ripostes before you can even make your first hit