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How to nerf bucks and fix witch doctors

AuthorMessage
Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
826
Criticals are without a doubt the #1 reason of raging in this game, it ruins the best of strategies, and overbuffs some classes, i suggest taking the ESO approach to fixing crits while still having them be useful, they added in an armor trait called impenetrable which reduces critical damage, you can of course get around it by boosting your own crit damage in that game however crit builds are squishy and lack sustain making it balanced, so i suggest something similar, add in gear traits and make it so you have to pay crowns to reroll the trait on an armor piece, this evens out everyone a bit and reduces the dumb rng that can happen in this game

Commodore
Jan 22, 2013
883
zuto4011a on Sep 12, 2017 wrote:
Criticals are without a doubt the #1 reason of raging in this game, it ruins the best of strategies, and overbuffs some classes, i suggest taking the ESO approach to fixing crits while still having them be useful, they added in an armor trait called impenetrable which reduces critical damage, you can of course get around it by boosting your own crit damage in that game however crit builds are squishy and lack sustain making it balanced, so i suggest something similar, add in gear traits and make it so you have to pay crowns to reroll the trait on an armor piece, this evens out everyone a bit and reduces the dumb rng that can happen in this game
why nerf bucks? they were bad at pvp for awhile and now they are finally really good, there is a strategy to counter anything so its better to find it than ruin things for a ton of people (many who don't pvp) because you can't think of one to counteract. in fact all you have to do is raise your strength, and besides witch doctors counteract bucks perfectly since most of us don't have any magic resist, that was the entire point of it, to have a counter to tanks like bucks who were op at the time. all in all, no nerfs are needed just a new strategy.

Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
826
sparticus32 on Sep 13, 2017 wrote:
why nerf bucks? they were bad at pvp for awhile and now they are finally really good, there is a strategy to counter anything so its better to find it than ruin things for a ton of people (many who don't pvp) because you can't think of one to counteract. in fact all you have to do is raise your strength, and besides witch doctors counteract bucks perfectly since most of us don't have any magic resist, that was the entire point of it, to have a counter to tanks like bucks who were op at the time. all in all, no nerfs are needed just a new strategy.
Ill be on a buck you play a witch and tell me if you think it was a fair match, if you win ill gift you 60k crowns worth of packs, sounds fair?

Commodore
Jan 22, 2013
883
zuto4011a on Sep 13, 2017 wrote:
Ill be on a buck you play a witch and tell me if you think it was a fair match, if you win ill gift you 60k crowns worth of packs, sounds fair?
i don't have a max witch, I only play buck and even with great gear I struggle against witches. in ranked pvp I got matched against a witch once, I won but barely, I only managed to win because they picked the witch only companion (the shark forgot his name, btw they need to buff his accuracy, you don't even need to charge him) i'm going to recount what happened, I charged since I can't tank witches, I died and several all but one of my companions did, I killed his last companion but my companion was in the red. trust me, as a experienced buck who has (some not allot) magic resist, going against witches isn't easy. when I pvp I dread getting matched against a witch because I know me and my companions could very easily lose, the best strategy we have is to charge you and hope you don't have purge, which means a witch has the advantage due to bucks have to base their hopes of winning on luck. meanwhile witchdoctors have a solid chance of winning. I would recommend for a strategy against bucks as follows
1 raise your strength a bit, not allot just a bit
2 farm bishop for his socket, purge is great against bucks
3 have a mojo reaver ready, don't just buff
4 train as many skills as possible, bucks have a ton at hand but are useless if you can do massive amount of magic damage against us
5 if companions are your main complaint against us choose one or two buck companions, mainly ones that have hold the line and stop are charges then destroy us after we get stopped.
6 try farming scrip for the witchdoctor flag in the black market, those are very useful, very useful indeed
7 bonnie hurts us since guns do magic damage, I suggest scratch, bonnie and someone with multiple hold the lines. its an effective strategy.
in no way am I saying witchdoctors don't need a bit of an upgrade, they do to be honest. I just don't want any unnecessary nerfs since people complaining to nerf a class often ruins it for people who don't pvp and use that class. its the thing I hate the most

Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
826
sparticus32 on Sep 14, 2017 wrote:
i don't have a max witch, I only play buck and even with great gear I struggle against witches. in ranked pvp I got matched against a witch once, I won but barely, I only managed to win because they picked the witch only companion (the shark forgot his name, btw they need to buff his accuracy, you don't even need to charge him) i'm going to recount what happened, I charged since I can't tank witches, I died and several all but one of my companions did, I killed his last companion but my companion was in the red. trust me, as a experienced buck who has (some not allot) magic resist, going against witches isn't easy. when I pvp I dread getting matched against a witch because I know me and my companions could very easily lose, the best strategy we have is to charge you and hope you don't have purge, which means a witch has the advantage due to bucks have to base their hopes of winning on luck. meanwhile witchdoctors have a solid chance of winning. I would recommend for a strategy against bucks as follows
1 raise your strength a bit, not allot just a bit
2 farm bishop for his socket, purge is great against bucks
3 have a mojo reaver ready, don't just buff
4 train as many skills as possible, bucks have a ton at hand but are useless if you can do massive amount of magic damage against us
5 if companions are your main complaint against us choose one or two buck companions, mainly ones that have hold the line and stop are charges then destroy us after we get stopped.
6 try farming scrip for the witchdoctor flag in the black market, those are very useful, very useful indeed
7 bonnie hurts us since guns do magic damage, I suggest scratch, bonnie and someone with multiple hold the lines. its an effective strategy.
in no way am I saying witchdoctors don't need a bit of an upgrade, they do to be honest. I just don't want any unnecessary nerfs since people complaining to nerf a class often ruins it for people who don't pvp and use that class. its the thing I hate the most
I main privateer but can play a witch musket and buck, i can count the number of witches on one hand that have beaten me outside of royale in the last few years. I personally dont struggle with the majority of bucks, only a select few can beat me, and i havent seen a good buck lose to a good witch since 2014 in the spar chamber, even in ranked where there are no rules when witches use the cheesy summons strat its still no challenge unless rng really favors them, might i suggest a strategy for dealing with witches?

1: Highlands

2: Wait out whatever shields they put on

3: Charge and kill the now shieldless witch

thats it, your done, you won gg

Community Leader
sparticus32 on Sep 14, 2017 wrote:
i don't have a max witch, I only play buck and even with great gear I struggle against witches. in ranked pvp I got matched against a witch once, I won but barely, I only managed to win because they picked the witch only companion (the shark forgot his name, btw they need to buff his accuracy, you don't even need to charge him) i'm going to recount what happened, I charged since I can't tank witches, I died and several all but one of my companions did, I killed his last companion but my companion was in the red. trust me, as a experienced buck who has (some not allot) magic resist, going against witches isn't easy. when I pvp I dread getting matched against a witch because I know me and my companions could very easily lose, the best strategy we have is to charge you and hope you don't have purge, which means a witch has the advantage due to bucks have to base their hopes of winning on luck. meanwhile witchdoctors have a solid chance of winning. I would recommend for a strategy against bucks as follows
1 raise your strength a bit, not allot just a bit
2 farm bishop for his socket, purge is great against bucks
3 have a mojo reaver ready, don't just buff
4 train as many skills as possible, bucks have a ton at hand but are useless if you can do massive amount of magic damage against us
5 if companions are your main complaint against us choose one or two buck companions, mainly ones that have hold the line and stop are charges then destroy us after we get stopped.
6 try farming scrip for the witchdoctor flag in the black market, those are very useful, very useful indeed
7 bonnie hurts us since guns do magic damage, I suggest scratch, bonnie and someone with multiple hold the lines. its an effective strategy.
in no way am I saying witchdoctors don't need a bit of an upgrade, they do to be honest. I just don't want any unnecessary nerfs since people complaining to nerf a class often ruins it for people who don't pvp and use that class. its the thing I hate the most
I'm going to be blunt. If you struggle against witches in ranked, you are A) Pulling Stormy Quentin Verger nonstop(the only remotely respectable witch in ranked) or B) not experienced, not skilled, or not properly geared. Since you say your opponent picked Carcarius, that means you didn't pull Quentin. So, I'm going with option B. Yes, you're absolutely right the best strategy vs witch as a bucc is to rush (assuming they don't have a scent 2-3, webs, sneaky sneaky pet cough Quentin cough). But first, there are 2-3 things you need to do: 1. Use a Valor's Fortress on your pirate 2. Drop a Whale's Might/Shark's Fury plus an Espirit/Call to Arms 3. Hide (if possible). Once you're protected and buffed (which is as early as round 2), rush them with everything you have. There's this tricky little epic ability that helps buccs survive when near a witch. It's called Witch Hunter. This incredibly broken epic allows you to counter-chain witchdoctor attacks and cut their attack's damage in half. With a tad of luck, you'll do vastly more damage to them then they do to you since witch's strength and dodge are horrendous. Just stay next to them with a fort up, and the witch probably can't kill you. If you don't have witch hunter, get it. It's an auto win vs your average witch.

Now for your "tips"
1. Nope, this doesn't work. Raising your strength is going to force you to either use low tier gear, or sacrifice a pet slot for a temporary buff. And even then, all they have to do is drop a buff of their own and they have a massive strength advantage again
2. Nope again. All witches naturally have purge. Farming another is a waste of time and a gear slot
3. Mojo reaver doesn't do much when its damage is a quarter of its base value (fort + witch hunter total 75% reduction)
4. Witches need to focus on protection and heals on their gear. Yes, they can fit in a few pieces of spell-giving Moo gear, but it's not a priority

Continued

Writer and PvP enthusiast at FinalBastion

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Community Leader
sparticus32 on Sep 14, 2017 wrote:
i don't have a max witch, I only play buck and even with great gear I struggle against witches. in ranked pvp I got matched against a witch once, I won but barely, I only managed to win because they picked the witch only companion (the shark forgot his name, btw they need to buff his accuracy, you don't even need to charge him) i'm going to recount what happened, I charged since I can't tank witches, I died and several all but one of my companions did, I killed his last companion but my companion was in the red. trust me, as a experienced buck who has (some not allot) magic resist, going against witches isn't easy. when I pvp I dread getting matched against a witch because I know me and my companions could very easily lose, the best strategy we have is to charge you and hope you don't have purge, which means a witch has the advantage due to bucks have to base their hopes of winning on luck. meanwhile witchdoctors have a solid chance of winning. I would recommend for a strategy against bucks as follows
1 raise your strength a bit, not allot just a bit
2 farm bishop for his socket, purge is great against bucks
3 have a mojo reaver ready, don't just buff
4 train as many skills as possible, bucks have a ton at hand but are useless if you can do massive amount of magic damage against us
5 if companions are your main complaint against us choose one or two buck companions, mainly ones that have hold the line and stop are charges then destroy us after we get stopped.
6 try farming scrip for the witchdoctor flag in the black market, those are very useful, very useful indeed
7 bonnie hurts us since guns do magic damage, I suggest scratch, bonnie and someone with multiple hold the lines. its an effective strategy.
in no way am I saying witchdoctors don't need a bit of an upgrade, they do to be honest. I just don't want any unnecessary nerfs since people complaining to nerf a class often ruins it for people who don't pvp and use that class. its the thing I hate the most
5. There aren't many universal bucc companions with htl3 and relentless 2 and blade 2. And even then, provided that the rushing buccaneer team has a strength buff up, and a protected pirate, the odds that this imaginary bucc companion will devastate the opposing team is slim to none. Also, what happens the round after the bucc charges? You either retreat, and I repeat the process until your htl unit is dead, or you leave yourself vulnerable to attack. Plus, there are these things called hides. Buccs run 2-3 and if you didn't know, hides are unaffected by hold the line. As I've said before, top witch teams included Scratch, Ratty, Bonnie for free to play and Scratch, Baar, Emmett for non-free to play. Even these top teams will get at best a 40% win rate vs good buccs. Why? Witches have low strength and dodge, so if a bucc with witch hunter moves next to them, it's often game over unless the witch gets some lucky criticals
6. Nope. The banners are too easy to destroy (wrecking your stats when they are destroyed), require you to use multiple witchdoctor companions to get maximum value (as you noted, that's suicide), and assume that you're actually using basic attacks. You won't have time to use basic attacks vs buccaneers.
7. Again, throwing up a fort on the pirate greatly mitigates the damage potential of Bonnie. Also, her strength is awful, meaning, rushing a buffed Pete at her means she will likely get one-rounded. If you trade Bonnie for Pete, and the htl companion for the bucc's other 2 companions (assuming the htl comp can kill both), you're left with bucc pirate vs witch pirate + Scratch. If the bucc pirate has witch hunter, the bucc will win.

Writer and PvP enthusiast at FinalBastion

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Lieutenant
Nov 05, 2011
133
sparticus32 on Sep 14, 2017 wrote:
i don't have a max witch, I only play buck and even with great gear I struggle against witches. in ranked pvp I got matched against a witch once, I won but barely, I only managed to win because they picked the witch only companion (the shark forgot his name, btw they need to buff his accuracy, you don't even need to charge him) i'm going to recount what happened, I charged since I can't tank witches, I died and several all but one of my companions did, I killed his last companion but my companion was in the red. trust me, as a experienced buck who has (some not allot) magic resist, going against witches isn't easy. when I pvp I dread getting matched against a witch because I know me and my companions could very easily lose, the best strategy we have is to charge you and hope you don't have purge, which means a witch has the advantage due to bucks have to base their hopes of winning on luck. meanwhile witchdoctors have a solid chance of winning. I would recommend for a strategy against bucks as follows
1 raise your strength a bit, not allot just a bit
2 farm bishop for his socket, purge is great against bucks
3 have a mojo reaver ready, don't just buff
4 train as many skills as possible, bucks have a ton at hand but are useless if you can do massive amount of magic damage against us
5 if companions are your main complaint against us choose one or two buck companions, mainly ones that have hold the line and stop are charges then destroy us after we get stopped.
6 try farming scrip for the witchdoctor flag in the black market, those are very useful, very useful indeed
7 bonnie hurts us since guns do magic damage, I suggest scratch, bonnie and someone with multiple hold the lines. its an effective strategy.
in no way am I saying witchdoctors don't need a bit of an upgrade, they do to be honest. I just don't want any unnecessary nerfs since people complaining to nerf a class often ruins it for people who don't pvp and use that class. its the thing I hate the most
Agreed , I'm planning to make a WitchDoctor for a Walkthrough, I don't do any pvp.

Ensign
Jul 13, 2016
12
sparticus32 on Sep 14, 2017 wrote:
i don't have a max witch, I only play buck and even with great gear I struggle against witches. in ranked pvp I got matched against a witch once, I won but barely, I only managed to win because they picked the witch only companion (the shark forgot his name, btw they need to buff his accuracy, you don't even need to charge him) i'm going to recount what happened, I charged since I can't tank witches, I died and several all but one of my companions did, I killed his last companion but my companion was in the red. trust me, as a experienced buck who has (some not allot) magic resist, going against witches isn't easy. when I pvp I dread getting matched against a witch because I know me and my companions could very easily lose, the best strategy we have is to charge you and hope you don't have purge, which means a witch has the advantage due to bucks have to base their hopes of winning on luck. meanwhile witchdoctors have a solid chance of winning. I would recommend for a strategy against bucks as follows
1 raise your strength a bit, not allot just a bit
2 farm bishop for his socket, purge is great against bucks
3 have a mojo reaver ready, don't just buff
4 train as many skills as possible, bucks have a ton at hand but are useless if you can do massive amount of magic damage against us
5 if companions are your main complaint against us choose one or two buck companions, mainly ones that have hold the line and stop are charges then destroy us after we get stopped.
6 try farming scrip for the witchdoctor flag in the black market, those are very useful, very useful indeed
7 bonnie hurts us since guns do magic damage, I suggest scratch, bonnie and someone with multiple hold the lines. its an effective strategy.
in no way am I saying witchdoctors don't need a bit of an upgrade, they do to be honest. I just don't want any unnecessary nerfs since people complaining to nerf a class often ruins it for people who don't pvp and use that class. its the thing I hate the most
Witch is the toughest class to reach champ and buccaneer is one of the easiest...period

If you dread playing vs witch as a buck then you need to rethink your strategy or gear.

There are 3 or 4 top witches in the game and it's primarily a summon game.

I suggest you max a witch and see for yourself because there are way too many flaws in your witch strategy.

Community Leader
despicablepirate on Sep 15, 2017 wrote:
Witch is the toughest class to reach champ and buccaneer is one of the easiest...period

If you dread playing vs witch as a buck then you need to rethink your strategy or gear.

There are 3 or 4 top witches in the game and it's primarily a summon game.

I suggest you max a witch and see for yourself because there are way too many flaws in your witch strategy.
3 or 4? That's way too high of a number. There's one respectable semi-active witch in Quentin, the rest are either inactive or terrible players (source: am champion buckler)

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Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
9466
Nerfs to bucks aren't necessary if witches got some help from KI.
Flippin' allow them to Charm!!!! They are the only class with a ban on a critical power.

Commodore
Jan 22, 2013
883
True my tips aren't the best since I only play buck in pvp but since I have never lost against a Witch I have some experience in counter strategy. I myself don't use valor since I hardly ever need protection since I usually
1 spam triton chorus against melee or
2 charge them since I already can reach them without Highland charge
Its not that I dread facing witches in the fear way I just know it's a little uncomfortable knowing that it could go down to 1v1. But my main point is that I agree witchdoctors need a upgrade but don't take down someone with you. Bucks are perfect how they are, good against melee, (kanes deadly frenzy isn't something to fear with bucks) but have to watch out for magic attacks. The cycle I see in mmo games with pvp is one class isn't to good in pvp, everyone complains to buff them and nerf other classes which the game company does and then the other classes complain and they get buffed and others get beefed and so on and so on until every class is worse off than how they started. Take swtor for example, pretty much every update there is a nerf or buff and it's got to the point where you have to constantly change classes, gear powers ect, just to do a little damage before either the Republic wins with pre grouped teams or in ranked everyone attacks one person (with snipers in the back usually) it's a system where ever class has heals and classes can be tank/dps dps/heals heals/tanks so in other words, a mess which is the end result of people always saying to nerf a class just for the small percentage that actually care about pvp enough to ruin it for people who mainly pve. The end result of what your asking isn't worth it, just a fix on the witches is enough

Community Leader
sparticus32 on Sep 16, 2017 wrote:
True my tips aren't the best since I only play buck in pvp but since I have never lost against a Witch I have some experience in counter strategy. I myself don't use valor since I hardly ever need protection since I usually
1 spam triton chorus against melee or
2 charge them since I already can reach them without Highland charge
Its not that I dread facing witches in the fear way I just know it's a little uncomfortable knowing that it could go down to 1v1. But my main point is that I agree witchdoctors need a upgrade but don't take down someone with you. Bucks are perfect how they are, good against melee, (kanes deadly frenzy isn't something to fear with bucks) but have to watch out for magic attacks. The cycle I see in mmo games with pvp is one class isn't to good in pvp, everyone complains to buff them and nerf other classes which the game company does and then the other classes complain and they get buffed and others get beefed and so on and so on until every class is worse off than how they started. Take swtor for example, pretty much every update there is a nerf or buff and it's got to the point where you have to constantly change classes, gear powers ect, just to do a little damage before either the Republic wins with pre grouped teams or in ranked everyone attacks one person (with snipers in the back usually) it's a system where ever class has heals and classes can be tank/dps dps/heals heals/tanks so in other words, a mess which is the end result of people always saying to nerf a class just for the small percentage that actually care about pvp enough to ruin it for people who mainly pve. The end result of what your asking isn't worth it, just a fix on the witches is enough
I'm telling you right now, as a general pvp tip, triton's chorus spam is not an effective strategy when facing halfway decent opponents. Let's look at the strategy's weaknesses vs the 5 classes (when facing decent players)
Musket: Chorus doesn't protect you at all vs bombs and guns. Yea, you can hide, but your companions will get shredded by overwatch chains. Once you're unhidden, a cloud or sky spirit plus a couple ranged super strikes kills you. Plus they have old scratch buffed knockbacks that get around your leviathan's calls and inhibit your rush.
Witch: You're completely vulnerable to all witch attacks if you only rely on Tritons and Leviathans. If they use a barricade, spam hold the line summons, and/or stack absorbs and other shields, you lose badly. This could be a winnable matchup for you if you rush very early, get lucky, and have witch hunter. And they have to either not have a hide up (to counter your hide) or not have htl units (to prevent an unhidden rush) for you to win.
Privy: You have minimal protection from ranged companions and no way to protect Scratch buffed bomb spam. And quite a few carry purge to knock those 2-3 choruses off your team. If they get behind a barricade, you're probably losing.
Buckler: I main buckler and have faced this "strat" before repeatedly. It doesn't work. You're completely vulnerable to poison and bleed, and most of us run Nausica (you aren't protected from her attacks) and/or purge (bye bye buffs). Plus, they can charge you before you charge them and put so much pressure on you that you can't put up your tritons.
Bucc: If they charge you before you have a chance to get your buffs up, you're losing. A smart bucc will keep you pressured and thus unable to devote the rounds to spamming your Choruses.

TLDR: Get 2-3 pieces of gear with a fort Get rid of the Choruses. Get Witch Hunter. You do this, you'll see your win rate skyrocket

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Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
826
sparticus32 on Sep 16, 2017 wrote:
True my tips aren't the best since I only play buck in pvp but since I have never lost against a Witch I have some experience in counter strategy. I myself don't use valor since I hardly ever need protection since I usually
1 spam triton chorus against melee or
2 charge them since I already can reach them without Highland charge
Its not that I dread facing witches in the fear way I just know it's a little uncomfortable knowing that it could go down to 1v1. But my main point is that I agree witchdoctors need a upgrade but don't take down someone with you. Bucks are perfect how they are, good against melee, (kanes deadly frenzy isn't something to fear with bucks) but have to watch out for magic attacks. The cycle I see in mmo games with pvp is one class isn't to good in pvp, everyone complains to buff them and nerf other classes which the game company does and then the other classes complain and they get buffed and others get beefed and so on and so on until every class is worse off than how they started. Take swtor for example, pretty much every update there is a nerf or buff and it's got to the point where you have to constantly change classes, gear powers ect, just to do a little damage before either the Republic wins with pre grouped teams or in ranked everyone attacks one person (with snipers in the back usually) it's a system where ever class has heals and classes can be tank/dps dps/heals heals/tanks so in other words, a mess which is the end result of people always saying to nerf a class just for the small percentage that actually care about pvp enough to ruin it for people who mainly pve. The end result of what your asking isn't worth it, just a fix on the witches is enough
Bucks arent weak against magic attacks, in fact I'd say they are the strongest with witch hunter, a 500 soul reaver could turn into a 3k crit chain for you easily, from what you're saying I gather you aren't as experienced as you appear to be. You are right it is common in mmos with PvP where one class gets nerfed and one buffed and its always changing. However with other mmos such as ESO this stimulates the economy and encourages thinking outside the box, for example my class last update lost our sustain in battles and I compensated by playing the same way I already was since I played a low sustain high burst build which was uncommon for solo players at the time, the difference between these 2 games is p101 has no economy and everyone is pigeonholed into running nearly the same thing, you can't compensate in other ways. Which is why a power like witch hunter cripples a class, and when you put a crippled class vs a class with crazy chains and grits that doesnt share its primary stat it makes the class unplayable, even with witch hunter removed I don't see your average witch winning more then 1 out 10 times vs a buck, my suggestion of armor traits to reduce crit damage needs everyone which makes it fair

Petty Officer
May 27, 2009
70
sparticus32 on Sep 13, 2017 wrote:
why nerf bucks? they were bad at pvp for awhile and now they are finally really good, there is a strategy to counter anything so its better to find it than ruin things for a ton of people (many who don't pvp) because you can't think of one to counteract. in fact all you have to do is raise your strength, and besides witch doctors counteract bucks perfectly since most of us don't have any magic resist, that was the entire point of it, to have a counter to tanks like bucks who were op at the time. all in all, no nerfs are needed just a new strategy.
I agree with you on the whole "why nerf bucks". I did around 16 pvp matches and I think I fought one witchdoctor. Very few people people even use witches for pvp, in my opinion. My advice is to keep asking KI to buff witchdoctor powers, sure with scratch the damage is pretty good but only for three rounds and one of those your pirates doesn't even benefit from it. So again, not a big fan of nerfing anything, including nerfing bucks. Just a fan of buffing, which I think would be your best bet.

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