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OP Swashbuckler? HAH!

AuthorMessage
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
The following is an observation and not a complaint or a request to nerf a class:
I was just in a Battle Royale against a buccaneer and a privateer. The buccaneer was easily defeated by me, Sarah and the priv's Yagi.
But honestly I don't understand just why certain classes are complaining that swashbuckler's are "OP", that some have "too many" hides and strikes from gear.
This Privateer had gobs of class defenses from gear: he use 5 forts on Yagi, yes I counted them, he had more than the usual heals from training and more than enough Big Guns. ( I'm very fortunate he had no gear granting Sneak Attack or Back Stab. )
In the end it came down to hitting each other and letting our Death's Bargain suck the health out of each other.
( strategic hint - if you're facing an opponent with that accessory try to lower the health of their companion before hitting them. The soul shroud will trigger and they'll drain their companion first. Lol it was two turns before he caught on to this and moved Yagi away from him ).
This last part of the bout took almost 20 minutes to finish! Even he commented on the length of the bout. Would I have won if I had more hides and strikes? Maybe or maybe not, I would sacrifice a lot of dodge for that and dodge kept me fighting through all Yagi's buffed attacks. And I mean he used everyone one of them until he was reduced to Calm the Troops.
It seems to me from this bout and other Battle Royales and 1v1 PVP that the classes are still even and that there is no imbalance.

First Mate
Dec 24, 2009
413
anecorbie on Aug 11, 2015 wrote:
The following is an observation and not a complaint or a request to nerf a class:
I was just in a Battle Royale against a buccaneer and a privateer. The buccaneer was easily defeated by me, Sarah and the priv's Yagi.
But honestly I don't understand just why certain classes are complaining that swashbuckler's are "OP", that some have "too many" hides and strikes from gear.
This Privateer had gobs of class defenses from gear: he use 5 forts on Yagi, yes I counted them, he had more than the usual heals from training and more than enough Big Guns. ( I'm very fortunate he had no gear granting Sneak Attack or Back Stab. )
In the end it came down to hitting each other and letting our Death's Bargain suck the health out of each other.
( strategic hint - if you're facing an opponent with that accessory try to lower the health of their companion before hitting them. The soul shroud will trigger and they'll drain their companion first. Lol it was two turns before he caught on to this and moved Yagi away from him ).
This last part of the bout took almost 20 minutes to finish! Even he commented on the length of the bout. Would I have won if I had more hides and strikes? Maybe or maybe not, I would sacrifice a lot of dodge for that and dodge kept me fighting through all Yagi's buffed attacks. And I mean he used everyone one of them until he was reduced to Calm the Troops.
It seems to me from this bout and other Battle Royales and 1v1 PVP that the classes are still even and that there is no imbalance.
Your dodge is really something to behold Miss Esperanza. I remember seeing that and being scared actually lol.

Anyways, interesting observation. Maybe I should get into the Ranked scene soon. Good note on Death's Bargain.

Fearless Dolan Grant lvl65(but, you knew that already)

Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
838
FireMorgan13 on Aug 12, 2015 wrote:
Your dodge is really something to behold Miss Esperanza. I remember seeing that and being scared actually lol.

Anyways, interesting observation. Maybe I should get into the Ranked scene soon. Good note on Death's Bargain.

Fearless Dolan Grant lvl65(but, you knew that already)
her dodge has not yet saved her from me

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
zuto4011a on Aug 12, 2015 wrote:
her dodge has not yet saved her from me
Well, Robert, as I noted in another post I know dodge won't save me from a power attack; however if you just straight up tried to hit me, I'm sure that a dodge and riposte would be the result.

Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
838
anecorbie on Aug 12, 2015 wrote:
Well, Robert, as I noted in another post I know dodge won't save me from a power attack; however if you just straight up tried to hit me, I'm sure that a dodge and riposte would be the result.
zangs zeal and tide

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
zuto4011a on Aug 12, 2015 wrote:
zangs zeal and tide
And you wouldn't know this, but during that bout I was experimenting with some other gear besides my usual, my dodge had dropped to 184, plus Zang had your critical buffs on him .
I have since returned to my old gear and am back to my usual 201.

Admiral
Jul 07, 2013
1124
Eats popcorn watching Esperanza dance.

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Lieutenant
Oct 11, 2012
108
I have 192 dodge and still can maintain 327 weapon power. I still end up losing in PvP (I am a SB, but I don't PvP often so thats probably why I made mistakes), and I feel the game is still balanced. I remember facing one guy who was like "I am OP because I have 6 assasin's strikes", and I won. How you ask? Dodge.

His ultimate defeat was my dodge, which makes me scared if I were to face Esperanza lol . Epics do matter, and so you might want to invest in accuracy incase you are going against a SB.

P.S. How much dodge do you have Esperanza? It would be interesting to see how much dodge one pirate could have.

-James Underwood
65
40

Lieutenant
Oct 11, 2012
108
I meant to ask, what is your accuracy Esperanza? I was on the subject of dodge, and wasn't paying attention (lol).

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
ElijahWaterVault on Aug 13, 2015 wrote:
I have 192 dodge and still can maintain 327 weapon power. I still end up losing in PvP (I am a SB, but I don't PvP often so thats probably why I made mistakes), and I feel the game is still balanced. I remember facing one guy who was like "I am OP because I have 6 assasin's strikes", and I won. How you ask? Dodge.

His ultimate defeat was my dodge, which makes me scared if I were to face Esperanza lol . Epics do matter, and so you might want to invest in accuracy incase you are going against a SB.

P.S. How much dodge do you have Esperanza? It would be interesting to see how much dodge one pirate could have.

-James Underwood
65
40
My current dodge is 201 and I could possibly get that to 209, if I switched out my hat ( Gladiator's Gallea from the Empire Bundle ) but I would lose accuracy, armor and a Revive card.
I always advise friends who ask - go for gear that boosts your prime stats over a power card, but if you can get a boost & a card, then that's the best.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
ElijahWaterVault on Aug 13, 2015 wrote:
I meant to ask, what is your accuracy Esperanza? I was on the subject of dodge, and wasn't paying attention (lol).
My accuracy is 120, which is a bit low. I would love to boost that without losing dodge or agility, but that can't be done yet, or until crafting is added and I can craft gear that boosts agility dodge and accuracy all at once.

Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
anecorbie on Aug 11, 2015 wrote:
The following is an observation and not a complaint or a request to nerf a class:
I was just in a Battle Royale against a buccaneer and a privateer. The buccaneer was easily defeated by me, Sarah and the priv's Yagi.
But honestly I don't understand just why certain classes are complaining that swashbuckler's are "OP", that some have "too many" hides and strikes from gear.
This Privateer had gobs of class defenses from gear: he use 5 forts on Yagi, yes I counted them, he had more than the usual heals from training and more than enough Big Guns. ( I'm very fortunate he had no gear granting Sneak Attack or Back Stab. )
In the end it came down to hitting each other and letting our Death's Bargain suck the health out of each other.
( strategic hint - if you're facing an opponent with that accessory try to lower the health of their companion before hitting them. The soul shroud will trigger and they'll drain their companion first. Lol it was two turns before he caught on to this and moved Yagi away from him ).
This last part of the bout took almost 20 minutes to finish! Even he commented on the length of the bout. Would I have won if I had more hides and strikes? Maybe or maybe not, I would sacrifice a lot of dodge for that and dodge kept me fighting through all Yagi's buffed attacks. And I mean he used everyone one of them until he was reduced to Calm the Troops.
It seems to me from this bout and other Battle Royales and 1v1 PVP that the classes are still even and that there is no imbalance.
But in another post, didn't you just state that "there seems to be an imbalance with Black Fog vs your witchdoctor strategy"? If only one class can beat this witch strategy, then wouldn't that be a clear indicator that something is indeed imbalanced?

From a more level standpoint, I would agree that every class has the capabilities to defeat the next, but I would certainly question the level of difficulty with each matchup. Also, perhaps an "imbalance" isn't necessarily because of a class's utilities and tools, but maybe the gear that class has access too, or the tools they have that effectively "fight against" what a certain class has or tends to (have/take advantage of) from their gear? I mean we see how many forts privateers can get (simply put, a lot), but what about how many forts say witchdoctors or swashbucklers have access to? Or maybe absorbs and musketeers vs absorbs and buccaneers? Or maybe what gear/powers a class would be giving up to benefit themselves in another way (replacing a hit for a heal for a simple example). Just some things one can think about when analyzing general PvP and "the meta".

Lieutenant
Oct 11, 2012
108
Okay, I use the Gladiator's Galea (8 agility, 10 accuracy, 6 dodge, 11 armor, and 6 magic resist) and the Gladiator's Outfit (9 agility, 6 accuracy, 6 dodge, 23 armor, and 12 magic resist) for the dodge, and my boots are the Chaotic Knimis (Revive, 8 weapon power, and 12 dodge). My weapon is the Blades of Shade (213 weapon power, 7 armor, and 20% armor penetration). For my totem I use the Ornament of Moo Manchu (10 weapon power, WID and Assassin's Strike). For my charm I use the Seven Lamps Charm (11 dodge, Super Strike card). For my ring I use the Black Pearl Annulet (11 dodge, Super Strike card). Finally, for my eye patch I use the Healer's Cross (Sorry there is no link to it on wiki, it can be found in the Crowns Shop(8 weapon power, 11 accuracy, 11 dodge)).

This brings my total stats to 327 weapon power, 137 accuracy, 192 dodge, 41 armor, and 18 magic resist. Sorry for the long, exhausting details (lol). I would recommend this gear to any SB that prefers weapon power and dodge.

Hope this Helps!
-James

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Wolf SkullRider on Aug 13, 2015 wrote:
But in another post, didn't you just state that "there seems to be an imbalance with Black Fog vs your witchdoctor strategy"? If only one class can beat this witch strategy, then wouldn't that be a clear indicator that something is indeed imbalanced?

From a more level standpoint, I would agree that every class has the capabilities to defeat the next, but I would certainly question the level of difficulty with each matchup. Also, perhaps an "imbalance" isn't necessarily because of a class's utilities and tools, but maybe the gear that class has access too, or the tools they have that effectively "fight against" what a certain class has or tends to (have/take advantage of) from their gear? I mean we see how many forts privateers can get (simply put, a lot), but what about how many forts say witchdoctors or swashbucklers have access to? Or maybe absorbs and musketeers vs absorbs and buccaneers? Or maybe what gear/powers a class would be giving up to benefit themselves in another way (replacing a hit for a heal for a simple example). Just some things one can think about when analyzing general PvP and "the meta".
As a counter to my WD strategy only BF has been successful, this is the imbalance I'm referring to: no other counter to Moo's Robes are as effective as BF and the only losses my WD is sustaining is from that one power. However, I just beat a SB with BF using the Moo Robe + Nefarious Staff combo, so I see that its not fool - proof.
Their Fan got side tracked and exposed by a flank and I had trained Kawil Doomclaw in FS 3 which exposed El Toro very neatly. Kan Po with his own hide also managed well.
I will say that my WD did train WIS and has gear that grants WID, so she isn't the helpless easy victim for an SB attack.
I have not yet faced a Buccaneer, so I don't know how that will go.
It is not BF that is OP but the Moo Robes that are difficult to beat.

Ensign
Mar 18, 2015
35
anecorbie on Aug 13, 2015 wrote:
As a counter to my WD strategy only BF has been successful, this is the imbalance I'm referring to: no other counter to Moo's Robes are as effective as BF and the only losses my WD is sustaining is from that one power. However, I just beat a SB with BF using the Moo Robe + Nefarious Staff combo, so I see that its not fool - proof.
Their Fan got side tracked and exposed by a flank and I had trained Kawil Doomclaw in FS 3 which exposed El Toro very neatly. Kan Po with his own hide also managed well.
I will say that my WD did train WIS and has gear that grants WID, so she isn't the helpless easy victim for an SB attack.
I have not yet faced a Buccaneer, so I don't know how that will go.
It is not BF that is OP but the Moo Robes that are difficult to beat.
Haha, I see you've had your fair share of frustration with the overpowered Robe and Staff combo. This is how we, Privateers and Witchdoctors (without the Robe), feel about Fog. One defining feature that something is wrong with Fog is easily perceived in a fight between two Swashbucklers. Typically, the Buckler who Fogs first loses because his hide will expire by the time the opponent's hide runs out. I've seen people lie to bait out the use of Fog simply because Fog allows a team to do enough damage to annihilate a few companions. Bringing FS3 companions only mitigates the effect slightly. The invisibility might be stopped, but the companions (with FS3) cannot effectively chain against the other player's Riposte, Relentless, Blade Storm, etc. companions.

We also see that Fog can counter this overpowered strategy, so what makes you think that Fog itself isn't overpowered. An spell such as Mojo Storm or Espirit cannot possibly counter Moo's Robe and Nefarious Staff the way Fog can.

Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
anecorbie on Aug 13, 2015 wrote:
As a counter to my WD strategy only BF has been successful, this is the imbalance I'm referring to: no other counter to Moo's Robes are as effective as BF and the only losses my WD is sustaining is from that one power. However, I just beat a SB with BF using the Moo Robe + Nefarious Staff combo, so I see that its not fool - proof.
Their Fan got side tracked and exposed by a flank and I had trained Kawil Doomclaw in FS 3 which exposed El Toro very neatly. Kan Po with his own hide also managed well.
I will say that my WD did train WIS and has gear that grants WID, so she isn't the helpless easy victim for an SB attack.
I have not yet faced a Buccaneer, so I don't know how that will go.
It is not BF that is OP but the Moo Robes that are difficult to beat.
From what I gather, Black Fog is NOT "OP", but the Cotta Warriors are? I am starting to miss the point where you said everything is balanced now, because it seems Black Fog might be a little superior given the way you sprinkled that beating a buckler on a witch was some sort of accomplishment, let alone a Buckler with the Moo Robe.

All I am saying is your "argument" is a little inconsistent and perhaps you should clarify for those of us who might be a little lost now as to the point you were trying to make...

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Yet even Black Fog isn't "fool-proof" as I've recently found out. Facing a Musket using the Cotta was a daunting task indeed. So I hope this makes some of you happy - that even a SB with BF can be defeated by these Robes.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
On the subject of Black Fog and PVP: I now have quite a few 1v1 bouts under my belt. I have won with BF, I have lost with BF, I have lost without BF and I have won without BF ( or in fact, any hide at all ). This just goes to show me that BF isn't the problem, but player's perception of it as OP and their strategies against the swashbuckler.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
"What is up with that dodge?" "How is it that you keep hitting me?"
The above are quotes from frustrated PVP opponents. The first had used Ratbeard's Buccaneer Smash to try to reduce my dodge. My dodge is now high enough that this makes very little impact on my dodge. I can shrug it off and continue dodging ( & riposting ) talent attacks.
The second is much easier to explain - the SB I was fighting was equipped with the Dragon Axe of Doom ( strength based ) and he hadn't used any strength buffs. I, on the other hand, was using the Nefarious Knives ( agility based & increases base agility ) I had also found an accessory that increased Weapon Power, Agility, and Dodge. So despite his hide, shroud, and 2 Valor's Forts. I managed to defeat him.
I'm not yet OP in my prime stats but I'm getting close.