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Help with the Hidden powers

AuthorMessage
Lieutenant
Nov 21, 2010
103
Ratbeard on Aug 14, 2015 wrote:
People dismissed entire swaths of the update as "not going to work" or "not worth it" without ever setting foot in the arena, let alone actually trying.

Because actual play results trump theory-casting, you'll note that the posts that get the most, fastest attention are the ones with actual play reports. Things tried, results; things not tried, results.

Duncan: To be honest I didn't know that so many changes were made just to address Hide. I thought it was a way to improve our gameplay in PvE.

I didn't say just to counter hide. They are relevant.

I think there is some favoritism towards Swashbucklers and hidden powers.

Why yes, there is a bias towards not taking the defining feature of a class away. Everything about the swashbuckler aims at this style of play, from 1st level to 65th, since the launch of the game.

Here are my thoughts (from a WD point of view).

There are other threads on the travails of WD, not all of which are related to Black Fog, which I think we'll address to your satisfaction.

I am a little stingy when it comes to TP's, if I learn Raise Barricade I won't have any left, but I think I will give it a try.

"Not worth it" example.

Removing one of the hidden powers has slim chances, since Swash has a lot other powers in his deck. Even if one hidden power is removed, there remains two other types.

"Not reliable" example.

He has only one Black Fog. (And he won't be happy if you nuke all his Assassin's Strikes.)

More obstacles on the board is mostly effective against ranged units. It crippled me, not Swash.

A square occupied by a barrel is not occupied by a deadly assassin. Obstacles must be navigated, eating up movement points and allowing you to predict and influence the location of his attack. (The center area is a good place for Barricade.)

My summons do nothing when opponent is hidden.

Summons deny avenues of approach (a living wall), and they deal damage when the swash is not hidden, enabling the "punish" phase of the exchange.
People dismissed entire swaths of the update as "not going to work" or "not worth it" without ever setting foot in the arena, let alone actually trying.

Because actual play results trump theory-casting, you'll note that the posts that get the most, fastest attention are the ones with actual play reports. Things tried, results; things not tried, results.

But I do spend time in the arena, I am there few hours daily, every day, since the Ranked came to Live.

I am not posting here out of whim, I am not satisfied on how my matches with Swash turns out.

My match with Swashbuckler last triple the time of my match with any other class, and that should tell you that I am giving my best to preserve. I am trying to survive every round. I am doing good, really good, I survive Black Fog with any serious casualties, I take out Swashes companions to the point when I have all three companions alive and there is only Swash standing, without any support. I an using Terror Cotta's too.

But nothing helps! Hidden talent is just too well designed. One round between hidden state, when Swash is actually open to the hits, I can't kill him, nor my companions, nor summons. He hides again, heals, boost, protect and then attack again. Once I am dead, my companions can't do anything.

I am using Forbiddance and always without success I remove some of the not so relevant powers. I hope that the outcome of my match doesn't depend on RNG.

I am just frustrated that after so much work and planning and different approaches to the issue the outcome is always the same. Hidden makes Swash practically invincible. I am conflicted if I should just flee when I face Swash, the end result will be the same but with much lees time consumed.

I don't want hidden removed as power from PvP, I am just asking for some solution where swash will think twice before using hidden after hidden power.

I posted some of my ideas few posts above.

Sincerely,
Stubborn Duncan freeman

Ensign
Aug 31, 2013
15
Ratbeard on Aug 14, 2015 wrote:
People dismissed entire swaths of the update as "not going to work" or "not worth it" without ever setting foot in the arena, let alone actually trying.

Because actual play results trump theory-casting, you'll note that the posts that get the most, fastest attention are the ones with actual play reports. Things tried, results; things not tried, results.

Duncan: To be honest I didn't know that so many changes were made just to address Hide. I thought it was a way to improve our gameplay in PvE.

I didn't say just to counter hide. They are relevant.

I think there is some favoritism towards Swashbucklers and hidden powers.

Why yes, there is a bias towards not taking the defining feature of a class away. Everything about the swashbuckler aims at this style of play, from 1st level to 65th, since the launch of the game.

Here are my thoughts (from a WD point of view).

There are other threads on the travails of WD, not all of which are related to Black Fog, which I think we'll address to your satisfaction.

I am a little stingy when it comes to TP's, if I learn Raise Barricade I won't have any left, but I think I will give it a try.

"Not worth it" example.

Removing one of the hidden powers has slim chances, since Swash has a lot other powers in his deck. Even if one hidden power is removed, there remains two other types.

"Not reliable" example.

He has only one Black Fog. (And he won't be happy if you nuke all his Assassin's Strikes.)

More obstacles on the board is mostly effective against ranged units. It crippled me, not Swash.

A square occupied by a barrel is not occupied by a deadly assassin. Obstacles must be navigated, eating up movement points and allowing you to predict and influence the location of his attack. (The center area is a good place for Barricade.)

My summons do nothing when opponent is hidden.

Summons deny avenues of approach (a living wall), and they deal damage when the swash is not hidden, enabling the "punish" phase of the exchange.
Remember jump?

Developer
Duncan StormThief on Aug 14, 2015 wrote:
People dismissed entire swaths of the update as "not going to work" or "not worth it" without ever setting foot in the arena, let alone actually trying.

Because actual play results trump theory-casting, you'll note that the posts that get the most, fastest attention are the ones with actual play reports. Things tried, results; things not tried, results.

But I do spend time in the arena, I am there few hours daily, every day, since the Ranked came to Live.

I am not posting here out of whim, I am not satisfied on how my matches with Swash turns out.

My match with Swashbuckler last triple the time of my match with any other class, and that should tell you that I am giving my best to preserve. I am trying to survive every round. I am doing good, really good, I survive Black Fog with any serious casualties, I take out Swashes companions to the point when I have all three companions alive and there is only Swash standing, without any support. I an using Terror Cotta's too.

But nothing helps! Hidden talent is just too well designed. One round between hidden state, when Swash is actually open to the hits, I can't kill him, nor my companions, nor summons. He hides again, heals, boost, protect and then attack again. Once I am dead, my companions can't do anything.

I am using Forbiddance and always without success I remove some of the not so relevant powers. I hope that the outcome of my match doesn't depend on RNG.

I am just frustrated that after so much work and planning and different approaches to the issue the outcome is always the same. Hidden makes Swash practically invincible. I am conflicted if I should just flee when I face Swash, the end result will be the same but with much lees time consumed.

I don't want hidden removed as power from PvP, I am just asking for some solution where swash will think twice before using hidden after hidden power.

I posted some of my ideas few posts above.

Sincerely,
Stubborn Duncan freeman
One round between hidden state, when Swash is actually open to the hits, I can't kill him, nor my companions, nor summons. He hides again, heals, boost, protect and then attack again. Once I am dead, my companions can't do anything.

There's another thread where quentin complains about the compound difficulty of (a) WD squishiness and (b) WD lack of firepower.

And as mentioned in that thread, there are plans to address that.

Unlike this thread, quentin does not restrict his complaint to Black Fog, nor even to Hide in general. It is useful to be able to differentiate that kind of feedback ("We need a boost, and here's why!").

Ensign
Mar 18, 2015
35
Ratbeard on Aug 13, 2015 wrote:
The following adjustments were made to the meta, almost all of which address hide in one manner or another:

1) Boosted almost all companion talent slots
2) Fixed the issue with FS3/QD3/QC3 not preventing Hide
3) Provided more companions who could train FS3/QD3/QC3
4) Provide more accessible pets with Grants FS3/QD3/QC3
5) Increase the size of the barricade to 5 spaces
6) Improve Scent
7) Forbiddance power
8) More obstacles on the board
9) Allowed defensive stacking
10) ... and NOT banning summons.

To paraphrase GK Chesterton, it's not that the solutions were tried and found wanting; they were found difficult, and not tried.

(Mostly not tried. Thank you to those who are trying and providing action reports.)
Any thoughts on giving Egg Shen or Zang Cha First Strike 3?

Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
163
TBH I think after this update you really can't complain about Black Fog unless you're a witch/privy as those are the only 2 classes with a real problem with not being able to make a comeback after it which hopefully Ratbeard will add something for those 2 classes to compete in the Meta...

For Muskets you have Moo Robe as a 1 turn strat to force them to wait until they move, then bombs for another turn and fun fact Hide doesn't remove itself if you use WID on your pirate when you drop knockbacks as long as you don't break anything! O: So you can use WID to protect pirate then stall 2 turns easily, also lets not forget raise barricade is a great option because you can go to the edge of the map and set it up so they can only hit one unit at a time so if you bring for example (Buy wagyu from crown shop for this) Wagyu and use first strike 3 on him boom only a Nausica/Bonnie can hit him or else Black Fog is wasted. They can't hit the barricades either or else Fog gets removed. Do this and then have 2 muskets to put to the side behind your pirate and you got yourself a strong barricade. Also any class can train raise barricade so there IS a way to counter to fog, actually quiet a bit. Also Scent pets are amazing with this because they will hit the barricade and stay near your units so you're abusing AI's system and blocking off Fog completely from your other 3 units (including pirate there) that you dont want to be hit.

Bucks can just bring Veng 3 to stun then chain the crud out of everyone so that's how my Buck has only lost to 1 Buckler to so far (And I'm Champion already...) But ya the only classes who have a right to complain atm is Witch/Privy but with the barricade strat we could even argue there.

I think atm the only thing in the meta there isn't a balance to is the Imperial Robes of Moo Manchu.

Community Leader
Prior to my conclusions on Fog, I spent quite a long time in the arena playing against Swashbucklers and other classes. It would be one thing if I lost to all classes and simply found hide frustrating, but it was primarily the Swashbucklers. I found that being unable to target the whole enemy team, and only hitting one or two with AoEs was not working. I had to spend my pirate's turns protecting and shielding to avoid taking a hard hit. Typically, I was taken out or to very low health anyway.

To deal with the issue, I attempted to counter hide with hide. This worked fairly well, except one or more of my companions was taken out instead. Hide allowed me to still shield and survive longer, but I was still having trouble with Swashbucklers in particular at low levels because the whole team was untargetable and then dealt double damage.

When the update fixing the preemptive strikes, I immediately used some of my points to train this up on companions, even swapping out old units for new ones. The Swashbucklers still targeted my pirate where available, and I couldn't train FS3. So I again countered hide with hide, but the Swashbucklers simply went for my ranged units with melee companions, so I could not counter hide. This is a simple fix for Swashbucklers that I've noticed being used over and over, which leads me to believe that the preemptive strikes is not an effective solution - not just because it seems ineffective in theory, but also because it has proven to be in practice.

The biggest damage to me was actually not the double damage but the fact that they could sneak their entire team up, through traps and all, and I got no benefit from Overwatch or any movement epics. Then melee all next to ranged was an inevitable death.

(cont)

Swordroll's Blog
https://www.swordroll.com/
Community Leader
(cont)

Today I actually learned about the barricade improvement and utilized that in addition to the Moo robe to attempt to simply fill up the spaces and block Swashbucklers. It worked fairly well. The two worked against each other because the summons attacked the barricades or moved elsewhere with the hidden enemy team. If the AI might have stayed in place, it would have been effective. If I hadn't had Moo's robe, I'm not sure how I'd have done that.

Among my more recent experiments, I did find one hidden gem by happy mistake that I'd not considered before. Many Swashbucklers use the Nefarious knives, which gives them Flanking. I passed a unit between the Swashbuckler and another of his melee units and triggered a very painless Flanking, removing the hidden, ultimately leading to the demise of the Swashbuckler. This is a strategy that might be worth exploring given that a Swashbuckler traditionally moves the whole team in to attack.

There are a couple of disadvantages to relying solely on this method.

A) The Swashbuckler must be using Nefarious Knives or have trained Flanking 1.
B) The Swashbuckler must have the pirate and a companion in such a position that you can trigger the epic.
C) You must break formation and move directly into the line of fire to trigger the epic.

Despite these things, using this along with other counters might make fighting Swashbucklers a bit easier. Let me know if anyone has success with that.

Swordroll's Blog
https://www.swordroll.com/
First Mate
Dec 24, 2009
413
I still have to try this with some friends, but I have a possible idea. I've only done 1 1v1 match, but I know the battleboards. Move to the corner and surround yourself with companions. These companions are either FS3ers, or tanky(or both). While in this formation, you can set up valor's whatever-you-want on some of your companions. When the swash and his companions tag on one or two of your companions, the enemy is now vulnerable to attacks.

"But (s)he'll still kill at least one of my companions and math tells me 3<4 so I'm dead" Guess what? When a unit is buffed with more armor, it'll require more hits to take it out. So there needs to be more companions focused on the armored one meaning there's less room for complete annihilation on crews. Also, this formation leaves the captain safe.

Adding those "raise barricades" to the strategy might work pretty well as well.

Fearless Dolan Grant lvl65

Ensign
Mar 18, 2015
35
FireMorgan13 on Aug 16, 2015 wrote:
I still have to try this with some friends, but I have a possible idea. I've only done 1 1v1 match, but I know the battleboards. Move to the corner and surround yourself with companions. These companions are either FS3ers, or tanky(or both). While in this formation, you can set up valor's whatever-you-want on some of your companions. When the swash and his companions tag on one or two of your companions, the enemy is now vulnerable to attacks.

"But (s)he'll still kill at least one of my companions and math tells me 3<4 so I'm dead" Guess what? When a unit is buffed with more armor, it'll require more hits to take it out. So there needs to be more companions focused on the armored one meaning there's less room for complete annihilation on crews. Also, this formation leaves the captain safe.

Adding those "raise barricades" to the strategy might work pretty well as well.

Fearless Dolan Grant lvl65
You cannot corner in Ranked

Developer
TechnomagePvP on Aug 15, 2015 wrote:
TBH I think after this update you really can't complain about Black Fog unless you're a witch/privy as those are the only 2 classes with a real problem with not being able to make a comeback after it which hopefully Ratbeard will add something for those 2 classes to compete in the Meta...

For Muskets you have Moo Robe as a 1 turn strat to force them to wait until they move, then bombs for another turn and fun fact Hide doesn't remove itself if you use WID on your pirate when you drop knockbacks as long as you don't break anything! O: So you can use WID to protect pirate then stall 2 turns easily, also lets not forget raise barricade is a great option because you can go to the edge of the map and set it up so they can only hit one unit at a time so if you bring for example (Buy wagyu from crown shop for this) Wagyu and use first strike 3 on him boom only a Nausica/Bonnie can hit him or else Black Fog is wasted. They can't hit the barricades either or else Fog gets removed. Do this and then have 2 muskets to put to the side behind your pirate and you got yourself a strong barricade. Also any class can train raise barricade so there IS a way to counter to fog, actually quiet a bit. Also Scent pets are amazing with this because they will hit the barricade and stay near your units so you're abusing AI's system and blocking off Fog completely from your other 3 units (including pirate there) that you dont want to be hit.

Bucks can just bring Veng 3 to stun then chain the crud out of everyone so that's how my Buck has only lost to 1 Buckler to so far (And I'm Champion already...) But ya the only classes who have a right to complain atm is Witch/Privy but with the barricade strat we could even argue there.

I think atm the only thing in the meta there isn't a balance to is the Imperial Robes of Moo Manchu.
Swordroll: This worked fairly well, except one or more of my companions was taken out instead.

Losing one companion is exactly how it's supposed to work. The purpose of hide, specifically in the Swashbuckler's kit, is that he gets to decide when to make the first move and "take the first piece."

If you can't come back from 4 vs. 3 you're going to lose against more than Swashbucklers. Somebody has to lose the first piece.

So don't say "one or two" if you want to raise alarm bells. One is expected. You can get my attention with two.

Technomage:
TBH I think after this update you really can't complain about Black Fog unless you're a witch/privy as those are the only 2 classes with a real problem with not being able to make a comeback after it which hopefully Ratbeard will add something for those 2 classes to compete in the Meta...


Good (fun, interesting) stuff coming on all fronts to beef up PRV and WD and it's going to help against more than just SWB.

Also Scent pets are amazing with this because they will hit the barricade and stay near your units so you're abusing AI's system.

As soon as we can fix it, the AI should start standing still (at the very least) if there's no opponents in sight. (Hopefully by next season.)

Lieutenant
Jun 08, 2009
126
Swordroll on Aug 15, 2015 wrote:
(cont)

Today I actually learned about the barricade improvement and utilized that in addition to the Moo robe to attempt to simply fill up the spaces and block Swashbucklers. It worked fairly well. The two worked against each other because the summons attacked the barricades or moved elsewhere with the hidden enemy team. If the AI might have stayed in place, it would have been effective. If I hadn't had Moo's robe, I'm not sure how I'd have done that.

Among my more recent experiments, I did find one hidden gem by happy mistake that I'd not considered before. Many Swashbucklers use the Nefarious knives, which gives them Flanking. I passed a unit between the Swashbuckler and another of his melee units and triggered a very painless Flanking, removing the hidden, ultimately leading to the demise of the Swashbuckler. This is a strategy that might be worth exploring given that a Swashbuckler traditionally moves the whole team in to attack.

There are a couple of disadvantages to relying solely on this method.

A) The Swashbuckler must be using Nefarious Knives or have trained Flanking 1.
B) The Swashbuckler must have the pirate and a companion in such a position that you can trigger the epic.
C) You must break formation and move directly into the line of fire to trigger the epic.

Despite these things, using this along with other counters might make fighting Swashbucklers a bit easier. Let me know if anyone has success with that.
Now that's a thought :p giving swashbucklers flanking as a epic they must learn and use similar to how privateers must use repel boarders if we have a melee weapon

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
TechnomagePvP on Aug 15, 2015 wrote:
TBH I think after this update you really can't complain about Black Fog unless you're a witch/privy as those are the only 2 classes with a real problem with not being able to make a comeback after it which hopefully Ratbeard will add something for those 2 classes to compete in the Meta...

For Muskets you have Moo Robe as a 1 turn strat to force them to wait until they move, then bombs for another turn and fun fact Hide doesn't remove itself if you use WID on your pirate when you drop knockbacks as long as you don't break anything! O: So you can use WID to protect pirate then stall 2 turns easily, also lets not forget raise barricade is a great option because you can go to the edge of the map and set it up so they can only hit one unit at a time so if you bring for example (Buy wagyu from crown shop for this) Wagyu and use first strike 3 on him boom only a Nausica/Bonnie can hit him or else Black Fog is wasted. They can't hit the barricades either or else Fog gets removed. Do this and then have 2 muskets to put to the side behind your pirate and you got yourself a strong barricade. Also any class can train raise barricade so there IS a way to counter to fog, actually quiet a bit. Also Scent pets are amazing with this because they will hit the barricade and stay near your units so you're abusing AI's system and blocking off Fog completely from your other 3 units (including pirate there) that you dont want to be hit.

Bucks can just bring Veng 3 to stun then chain the crud out of everyone so that's how my Buck has only lost to 1 Buckler to so far (And I'm Champion already...) But ya the only classes who have a right to complain atm is Witch/Privy but with the barricade strat we could even argue there.

I think atm the only thing in the meta there isn't a balance to is the Imperial Robes of Moo Manchu.
I will note on your strategy that Swashbucklers can Jump over barricades, so if you use them make sure that there is no gap between the barricade and you & your crew.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Swordroll on Aug 15, 2015 wrote:
(cont)

Today I actually learned about the barricade improvement and utilized that in addition to the Moo robe to attempt to simply fill up the spaces and block Swashbucklers. It worked fairly well. The two worked against each other because the summons attacked the barricades or moved elsewhere with the hidden enemy team. If the AI might have stayed in place, it would have been effective. If I hadn't had Moo's robe, I'm not sure how I'd have done that.

Among my more recent experiments, I did find one hidden gem by happy mistake that I'd not considered before. Many Swashbucklers use the Nefarious knives, which gives them Flanking. I passed a unit between the Swashbuckler and another of his melee units and triggered a very painless Flanking, removing the hidden, ultimately leading to the demise of the Swashbuckler. This is a strategy that might be worth exploring given that a Swashbuckler traditionally moves the whole team in to attack.

There are a couple of disadvantages to relying solely on this method.

A) The Swashbuckler must be using Nefarious Knives or have trained Flanking 1.
B) The Swashbuckler must have the pirate and a companion in such a position that you can trigger the epic.
C) You must break formation and move directly into the line of fire to trigger the epic.

Despite these things, using this along with other counters might make fighting Swashbucklers a bit easier. Let me know if anyone has success with that.
Flanking, wow ( where have I heard that before? ) Oh yeah right, in my post: "A Frank Discussion on Hide". In which, I believe, most PVP players were very scathing at my suggestion that they use auto talents to remove hide.

Lieutenant
Nov 21, 2010
103
Hello everyone,

There's another thread where quentin complains about the compound difficulty of (a) WD squishiness and (b) WD lack of firepower.

And as mentioned in that thread, there are plans to address that.


When can we except this update?

I played Ranked PvP through the weekend, did a lot of matches, even was streaming a little.

Still haven't found a counter to Hidden ability, but I did face a swash who took Black Fog to a whole new level. I mean, this move is so uncounterable that I am not sure what to say anymore, and I wonder if there is even a point in writhing at the message boards.

I faced a swash, he used black fog in first round, I used damage protection 50%, he boosts, I uses Absorb on one of mine companions, he moves towards, I use another damage protection on one of my companions. He comes over and doesn't hit, he approached by himself and left others at 4 square distance. I used Witch AoE power that debuffs critical. Now this move is so epic that I was impressed and enraged at the same moment. He uses Purge magic, removing all my protection, all of them, and attacks with companions! I was dead in a heartbeat.

All his comps saved all buffs, I just couldn't survive.

I am running out of the ideas how to approach this.

I recorded a video of another scenario when I am facing Swash, the match lasted for 30 minutes. I used all counters suggested in here and other threads. I was again, with all three healthy companions alive while he was all alone, at some point of the match. And thx to opponents hidden, heals and boost, I died easily.

I wish Ratbeard could look at the video and see what I am talking about, or prove me wrong.

Sincerely,
Stubborn Duncan Freeman

Bosun
Apr 19, 2012
331
EMC99 on Aug 13, 2015 wrote:
We don't need more counters! The powers need to be toned down. There really isn't much else to say, but by having too many counters for hide, it can get confusing for both teams. A couple possibilities:
  1. Lose a third of damage dealt
  2. Lowers your movement to half

End of story!.The player using the hide needs to feel some pain too!
The player using hide needs to feel pain? A third is outrageous to even suggest. Even Reckless Frenzy only costs 5% per hit and less than that when the Buck is shielded. How much pain does a player using Battle Zeal experience? How much pain does a Musket experience when they carpet the battleboard with bombs? A player attacking out of hidden is extremely vulnerable because Bucklers can't carry many shields. Usually at least one of the Buckler's companions that attack out of hidden are eliminated the following round. If movement is reduced then the Buckler couldn't get close enough to use Fog without losing at least 1 or 2 crew members to companions like Chantal and Quint. There are strategies out there. I use one for my Buck that totally negates the damage aspect of Fog so all the Buckler and his team benefit from are the hidden effects, which are far from impossible to deal with. Also, with the new secret trainers, classes can use powers and weapons that up until now would have been useless to them. My Buckler faced a Buck the other day that used a shooty/slashy weapon and had trained Burst Fire and used a ranged attack that lessened my dodge by 50%. After being hit with that I was one Reckless Frenzy away from being beaten. Use the tools you've been provided instead of asking that the only decent power available to the Buckler class be negated.

Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
TechnomagePvP on Aug 15, 2015 wrote:
TBH I think after this update you really can't complain about Black Fog unless you're a witch/privy as those are the only 2 classes with a real problem with not being able to make a comeback after it which hopefully Ratbeard will add something for those 2 classes to compete in the Meta...

For Muskets you have Moo Robe as a 1 turn strat to force them to wait until they move, then bombs for another turn and fun fact Hide doesn't remove itself if you use WID on your pirate when you drop knockbacks as long as you don't break anything! O: So you can use WID to protect pirate then stall 2 turns easily, also lets not forget raise barricade is a great option because you can go to the edge of the map and set it up so they can only hit one unit at a time so if you bring for example (Buy wagyu from crown shop for this) Wagyu and use first strike 3 on him boom only a Nausica/Bonnie can hit him or else Black Fog is wasted. They can't hit the barricades either or else Fog gets removed. Do this and then have 2 muskets to put to the side behind your pirate and you got yourself a strong barricade. Also any class can train raise barricade so there IS a way to counter to fog, actually quiet a bit. Also Scent pets are amazing with this because they will hit the barricade and stay near your units so you're abusing AI's system and blocking off Fog completely from your other 3 units (including pirate there) that you dont want to be hit.

Bucks can just bring Veng 3 to stun then chain the crud out of everyone so that's how my Buck has only lost to 1 Buckler to so far (And I'm Champion already...) But ya the only classes who have a right to complain atm is Witch/Privy but with the barricade strat we could even argue there.

I think atm the only thing in the meta there isn't a balance to is the Imperial Robes of Moo Manchu.
x Clapping x

Admiral
Jun 02, 2013
1472
I think to help out rank 3 overwatch, repel boarders and readied spell should remove hide but not attack because that would be overpowered
Or when black fog is used you lose half of your movement, this will give you more time to buff up use barricades etc because swashies get to me in 2 turns without me moving closer to them

Lieutenant
May 09, 2013
157
Duncan StormThief on Aug 16, 2015 wrote:
Hello everyone,

There's another thread where quentin complains about the compound difficulty of (a) WD squishiness and (b) WD lack of firepower.

And as mentioned in that thread, there are plans to address that.


When can we except this update?

I played Ranked PvP through the weekend, did a lot of matches, even was streaming a little.

Still haven't found a counter to Hidden ability, but I did face a swash who took Black Fog to a whole new level. I mean, this move is so uncounterable that I am not sure what to say anymore, and I wonder if there is even a point in writhing at the message boards.

I faced a swash, he used black fog in first round, I used damage protection 50%, he boosts, I uses Absorb on one of mine companions, he moves towards, I use another damage protection on one of my companions. He comes over and doesn't hit, he approached by himself and left others at 4 square distance. I used Witch AoE power that debuffs critical. Now this move is so epic that I was impressed and enraged at the same moment. He uses Purge magic, removing all my protection, all of them, and attacks with companions! I was dead in a heartbeat.

All his comps saved all buffs, I just couldn't survive.

I am running out of the ideas how to approach this.

I recorded a video of another scenario when I am facing Swash, the match lasted for 30 minutes. I used all counters suggested in here and other threads. I was again, with all three healthy companions alive while he was all alone, at some point of the match. And thx to opponents hidden, heals and boost, I died easily.

I wish Ratbeard could look at the video and see what I am talking about, or prove me wrong.

Sincerely,
Stubborn Duncan Freeman
That's exactly what happened to me! Purge magic is really powerful with swashbucklers right now. Especially for privateers who live off buffs, this is devastating.

Admiral
Jun 02, 2013
1472
bluba4 on Aug 17, 2015 wrote:
That's exactly what happened to me! Purge magic is really powerful with swashbucklers right now. Especially for privateers who live off buffs, this is devastating.
And it's not like you can use forbid dance to remove it it's highly unlikely

Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
163
anecorbie on Aug 16, 2015 wrote:
I will note on your strategy that Swashbucklers can Jump over barricades, so if you use them make sure that there is no gap between the barricade and you & your crew.
If you don't know I run the channel TheFiestyOrange, I plan to show off the strat in the future in a video guide so you can see THERE IS NO WAY TO JUMP OVER THIS UNLESS YOU MESS UP, also no you can't jump over these barricades. I tested this, fun fact of the day!

Gunner's Mate
Dec 16, 2009
212
As of now hidden is decently counterable by utilizing a number of changes. None of these changes are very effective on their own but when you combine them then Fog is easily addressed. Use a scent pet and barricade to attract the scen pet in your range. Use summons to deny access. Put a hidden or fs 3(or even vengeance 3 bucc w/ Turn the Tide 2+) unit to cover your holes. By combining these tools given to us Fog is no longer a problem. Here is a video proving this point: Swash vs Swash

Developer
Eric Stormbringer on Aug 18, 2015 wrote:
As of now hidden is decently counterable by utilizing a number of changes. None of these changes are very effective on their own but when you combine them then Fog is easily addressed. Use a scent pet and barricade to attract the scen pet in your range. Use summons to deny access. Put a hidden or fs 3(or even vengeance 3 bucc w/ Turn the Tide 2+) unit to cover your holes. By combining these tools given to us Fog is no longer a problem. Here is a video proving this point: Swash vs Swash
Great job, now get in there and pick off some swashbucklers from the top ranks.

They're hosed without hide, as we all already knew.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
TechnomagePvP on Aug 17, 2015 wrote:
If you don't know I run the channel TheFiestyOrange, I plan to show off the strat in the future in a video guide so you can see THERE IS NO WAY TO JUMP OVER THIS UNLESS YOU MESS UP, also no you can't jump over these barricades. I tested this, fun fact of the day!
Then the bucklers weren't paying attention, I can Jump over any barricade placed in any configuration; because I've done it!

Gunner's Mate
Dec 16, 2009
212
Ratbeard on Aug 18, 2015 wrote:
Great job, now get in there and pick off some swashbucklers from the top ranks.

They're hosed without hide, as we all already knew.
Unfortunately my wait time for matches is such that i often cannot find a match in a reasonable amount of time. Currently i have been working on pets and lvl my buccaneer(the true top tier class in this meta imo). That being said- as you have seen swash is very much a one trick pony. Do you have any plans to expand this classes capabilities so that we aren't pigeon-holed into a particular playstyle?

Developer
Eric Stormbringer on Aug 18, 2015 wrote:
Unfortunately my wait time for matches is such that i often cannot find a match in a reasonable amount of time. Currently i have been working on pets and lvl my buccaneer(the true top tier class in this meta imo). That being said- as you have seen swash is very much a one trick pony. Do you have any plans to expand this classes capabilities so that we aren't pigeon-holed into a particular playstyle?
In what way is the swashbuckler "pigeon-holed" that is not equally true of other classes?

Every class has its defining feature (though, in the WD's case, its feature is "a wide variety of different effects.")

Your toolset is "highly mobile, highly fragile, independent, able to deliver very high burst damage when and where you want."

As pigeon-holes go, it's apparently pretty effective.

What do you want/expect? Tanking? Traps? Heals? Buffs? Summons?