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Unbeatable Content for Pirate101

AuthorMessage
Ensign
May 21, 2012
37
Apparently, In KI Live, One Eyed Jack said that Smugglers Arena is the most unbeatable content in Pirate101.

As much as i'd love to confirm that, That's not true. Blood Flames and Frozen Tide are making from this a bit of difficult gauntlet, An easy one, BUT.. I was actually thinking about that, Why not add in the next upcoming Update an Unbeatable Side gauntlet?

Well, Doesn't have to be completely with new interiors or new mobs to see. It can be simply a 1 Fight Instance in any of the current game worlds with the same current in-game models. But just this 1 Fight has a boss and a few mobs with cheats which makes it unbeatable. If also Tide and Flames can be banned in this fight would be great. I'd LOVE to do a 1 fight instance/gauntlet at level 70 that is completely challenging and requires more of a brain strategy and working together as a team with hard cheats over using Scratch buffs, Tide and Blood/Summer PvP Flames. A side instance would be great of course to make sure that it's just for fun.

Valencia 2 and Smugglers are just difficult but definitely not the hardest unbeatable content. Hopefully @ Ratbeard or @ Decius work on that and also add it in this upcoming update by any chance. Anything for the sake of the challenge. With loot worthy rewards too, If possible. :P

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Smart Logan West on May 19, 2018 wrote:
Apparently, In KI Live, One Eyed Jack said that Smugglers Arena is the most unbeatable content in Pirate101.

As much as i'd love to confirm that, That's not true. Blood Flames and Frozen Tide are making from this a bit of difficult gauntlet, An easy one, BUT.. I was actually thinking about that, Why not add in the next upcoming Update an Unbeatable Side gauntlet?

Well, Doesn't have to be completely with new interiors or new mobs to see. It can be simply a 1 Fight Instance in any of the current game worlds with the same current in-game models. But just this 1 Fight has a boss and a few mobs with cheats which makes it unbeatable. If also Tide and Flames can be banned in this fight would be great. I'd LOVE to do a 1 fight instance/gauntlet at level 70 that is completely challenging and requires more of a brain strategy and working together as a team with hard cheats over using Scratch buffs, Tide and Blood/Summer PvP Flames. A side instance would be great of course to make sure that it's just for fun.

Valencia 2 and Smugglers are just difficult but definitely not the hardest unbeatable content. Hopefully @ Ratbeard or @ Decius work on that and also add it in this upcoming update by any chance. Anything for the sake of the challenge. With loot worthy rewards too, If possible. :P
Actually, Logan, OEJ ( Friendly Thomas ) said that the Smuggler's Arena was intended as unbeatable content - but that the "awesome players" of Pirate101 developed ways to beat it.
I'm for more challenging bosses, but the idea of making it "unbeatable" will just lead to frustration and a lot of hate postings to the message boards.
Players DON'T like seeing their favorite companions go on Bed Rest and absolutely hate being beaten with no chance at all to win and get the boss drops, as most posts complaining about VA2 shows.
Just look at Wizard101 with it's bosses with egregious cheats and over powered minions, this made trying to get through Azteca and Khrysalis such a pain for even a very good solo player. Now, it's almost required to use team-up even for side quests or mob battles.
I hope the developers at KI will be more in touch with the "average" player than to do what you suggest.

Ensign
May 21, 2012
37
anecorbie on May 20, 2018 wrote:
Actually, Logan, OEJ ( Friendly Thomas ) said that the Smuggler's Arena was intended as unbeatable content - but that the "awesome players" of Pirate101 developed ways to beat it.
I'm for more challenging bosses, but the idea of making it "unbeatable" will just lead to frustration and a lot of hate postings to the message boards.
Players DON'T like seeing their favorite companions go on Bed Rest and absolutely hate being beaten with no chance at all to win and get the boss drops, as most posts complaining about VA2 shows.
Just look at Wizard101 with it's bosses with egregious cheats and over powered minions, this made trying to get through Azteca and Khrysalis such a pain for even a very good solo player. Now, it's almost required to use team-up even for side quests or mob battles.
I hope the developers at KI will be more in touch with the "average" player than to do what you suggest.
1- The ways that the Players developed aren't "ways". Blood Flames and Tide are no brainer to make things quick and easier to avoid frustration.

2- Unbeatable doesn't have to remain permanently unbeatable, KI can nerf it to a certain point, But I do love Hardcore bosses and I don't give up easily to beat these and I still am looking forward to get these to work in Pirate101. That's why i hinted to "Teamwork" to beat it.

3- It's a side content like i said, Players don't have to do this 1 fight. It's your choice to whether you want to accept the challenge or just ignore it. Like Ranked PvP. It's your choice if you do want to obtain the Champion weapons and get better/Improve yourself and farm for PvP Gear and become competitive against the other champion players or just stick to PvE. If you don't want to lose companions, Simply don't do it.

4- Hardcore Content like Medulla in Wizard101 is what makes it fun. You simply adapt to the cheats, Find the possible spells you have and then you find COUNTERS for it. But wizard's issue is, They made story content a hardcore challenge for average players. I'm asking for a Side instance. Your choice, Your decision to risk.

5- Azteca and Khrysalis were easy really. I'm a very good solo player and I soloed them with my fire and Death with no absolute issues. They're good for the Average player. Not to brag but yeah.

Keep in mind that I did ask for hardcore content because I am interested in something that isn't way too easy to finish and defeat like Valencia 2 and Smugglers. These weren't hard. Just frustrating with the amount of talents they had. I soloed these too on every character before Team Up was even implemented to Valencia 2 or the Pre-nerf to Smugglers Arena. I didn't have neither Blood flames or Tide. I simply adapted to them. And i only used Level 45 gear back then. Adapting and using the tools you have in hand are what helps you to counter what the developers have in hands to defeat you.

Community Leader
anecorbie on May 20, 2018 wrote:
Actually, Logan, OEJ ( Friendly Thomas ) said that the Smuggler's Arena was intended as unbeatable content - but that the "awesome players" of Pirate101 developed ways to beat it.
I'm for more challenging bosses, but the idea of making it "unbeatable" will just lead to frustration and a lot of hate postings to the message boards.
Players DON'T like seeing their favorite companions go on Bed Rest and absolutely hate being beaten with no chance at all to win and get the boss drops, as most posts complaining about VA2 shows.
Just look at Wizard101 with it's bosses with egregious cheats and over powered minions, this made trying to get through Azteca and Khrysalis such a pain for even a very good solo player. Now, it's almost required to use team-up even for side quests or mob battles.
I hope the developers at KI will be more in touch with the "average" player than to do what you suggest.
You're forgetting 1 thing though: Smuggler's Arena was created, and thus balanced around, late 2014 PvE. At that time, there was no Scratch, companions had 2-3 fewer epics, moo tower had just released, relent and burst 2 weren't a thing for pirates (only companions). Sure, it might have been very difficult (unless a very specific, often gear-restrictive strategy was used) back then, but PvE has evolved significantly. As Logan said, the existence of Scratch, Flames, and Moo Boots trivialize the Arena. In addition, we had 3 years without a storyline update, giving people lots of time to farm for pieces of gear that make the arena (or any endgame farming instances) easy. With the current state of PvE, Smuggler's is no longer a "difficult" dungeon. All it takes is 1-2 players with a Blood Robe (not an unreasonable request) and the entire team with a max Old Scratch to be able to farm the dungeon without losing companions. I do think that more difficult, side quest, dungeons are needed to keep the playerbase around.

Writer, Editor, Administrator, and Pirate PvP guy at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Smart Logan West on May 20, 2018 wrote:
1- The ways that the Players developed aren't "ways". Blood Flames and Tide are no brainer to make things quick and easier to avoid frustration.

2- Unbeatable doesn't have to remain permanently unbeatable, KI can nerf it to a certain point, But I do love Hardcore bosses and I don't give up easily to beat these and I still am looking forward to get these to work in Pirate101. That's why i hinted to "Teamwork" to beat it.

3- It's a side content like i said, Players don't have to do this 1 fight. It's your choice to whether you want to accept the challenge or just ignore it. Like Ranked PvP. It's your choice if you do want to obtain the Champion weapons and get better/Improve yourself and farm for PvP Gear and become competitive against the other champion players or just stick to PvE. If you don't want to lose companions, Simply don't do it.

4- Hardcore Content like Medulla in Wizard101 is what makes it fun. You simply adapt to the cheats, Find the possible spells you have and then you find COUNTERS for it. But wizard's issue is, They made story content a hardcore challenge for average players. I'm asking for a Side instance. Your choice, Your decision to risk.

5- Azteca and Khrysalis were easy really. I'm a very good solo player and I soloed them with my fire and Death with no absolute issues. They're good for the Average player. Not to brag but yeah.

Keep in mind that I did ask for hardcore content because I am interested in something that isn't way too easy to finish and defeat like Valencia 2 and Smugglers. These weren't hard. Just frustrating with the amount of talents they had. I soloed these too on every character before Team Up was even implemented to Valencia 2 or the Pre-nerf to Smugglers Arena. I didn't have neither Blood flames or Tide. I simply adapted to them. And i only used Level 45 gear back then. Adapting and using the tools you have in hand are what helps you to counter what the developers have in hands to defeat you.
1. Not every player has been fortunate enough to get these drops, yet are still able to beat the Arena without them. They HAVE developed a strategy that works. I have this OP gear yet refuse to use it in the Arena ( except for that one time with RrrrZzzz and his friend ) And that showed me how very boring it was. If you truly want the challenge unequip your OP gear - you have a choice there, also. The Smuggler's Arena is challenging.

2. I loved the challenge of VA2 and the enemies which finally were able to match our companions - here we're in agreement.

3. If it's side content, that's good, but please don't give OP gear in the dungeon that unbalances the game and makes it necessary to do the side content to progress through the main content ( Darkmoor Dungeon, for example. Where you had to do the first part of the dungeon to get your level 100 class spell. )

Otherwise, like I said, stronger challenges are acceptable, but "hardcore" in the main quest line ( like Medulla ) is not. Give average players a chance to win and complete the story line.

Dread Pirate
May 27, 2009
2131
While I can understand the attraction of a Kobiyashi Maru scenario, there is an extremely difficult thing to balance when including something like that -- is it fair to have the best gear dropped in such a dungeon, or if the best gear isn't the reward, then what would make it worthwhile to finally defeat the Undefeatable Content? A Badge? Look how easily some people were able to get the top of the Team Up badges simply by using their alt characters and walking back out the door without any more effort than porting. If there aren't enough people interested in teaming up for your unbeatable dungeon, then there will be complaints that it is useless.

I hope that someday the developers do have time to invent something like you are suggesting, but additional content for ALL pirates should be higher on the to-do list, really.


Captain
Jun 10, 2013
729
Smart Logan West on May 20, 2018 wrote:
1- The ways that the Players developed aren't "ways". Blood Flames and Tide are no brainer to make things quick and easier to avoid frustration.

2- Unbeatable doesn't have to remain permanently unbeatable, KI can nerf it to a certain point, But I do love Hardcore bosses and I don't give up easily to beat these and I still am looking forward to get these to work in Pirate101. That's why i hinted to "Teamwork" to beat it.

3- It's a side content like i said, Players don't have to do this 1 fight. It's your choice to whether you want to accept the challenge or just ignore it. Like Ranked PvP. It's your choice if you do want to obtain the Champion weapons and get better/Improve yourself and farm for PvP Gear and become competitive against the other champion players or just stick to PvE. If you don't want to lose companions, Simply don't do it.

4- Hardcore Content like Medulla in Wizard101 is what makes it fun. You simply adapt to the cheats, Find the possible spells you have and then you find COUNTERS for it. But wizard's issue is, They made story content a hardcore challenge for average players. I'm asking for a Side instance. Your choice, Your decision to risk.

5- Azteca and Khrysalis were easy really. I'm a very good solo player and I soloed them with my fire and Death with no absolute issues. They're good for the Average player. Not to brag but yeah.

Keep in mind that I did ask for hardcore content because I am interested in something that isn't way too easy to finish and defeat like Valencia 2 and Smugglers. These weren't hard. Just frustrating with the amount of talents they had. I soloed these too on every character before Team Up was even implemented to Valencia 2 or the Pre-nerf to Smugglers Arena. I didn't have neither Blood flames or Tide. I simply adapted to them. And i only used Level 45 gear back then. Adapting and using the tools you have in hand are what helps you to counter what the developers have in hands to defeat you.
Not everyone has Captain's Blood Jacket, or The Imperial Boots or Robe. When Kingsisle made the Smuggler's Arena they probably intended to for it to be impossible for a player without those things to beat it. Obviously boss gear is going to make it easier.

I agree that any unbeatable boss should be side content.

PS: The only thing I don't think I agree with in your post is when you said "it's your choice to obtain the champion weapons". Ranked PVP is broken in multiple ways as is. Because not that many people do it anymore, some players feel the only way to obtain the champion weapons is to boost with a friend to get them, I guess you could argue it's their choice to boost with the friend or not, but Ranked PVP shouldn't be choice in that respect, it should be fight the hardest you can to if you fight hard enough you can earn the weapons.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
On the subject of weapons: While many consider the Champion weapons from Rank PvP as valuable, I believe it is mainly for the "bragging rights" in general. Those weapons aren't any stronger than weapons dropped from Dreadnaught, won from the Ashes of the Armada pack or even bought from the Crown Shop; here, KI has done a brilliant job in balancing.

Ensign
May 21, 2012
37
anecorbie on May 20, 2018 wrote:
1. Not every player has been fortunate enough to get these drops, yet are still able to beat the Arena without them. They HAVE developed a strategy that works. I have this OP gear yet refuse to use it in the Arena ( except for that one time with RrrrZzzz and his friend ) And that showed me how very boring it was. If you truly want the challenge unequip your OP gear - you have a choice there, also. The Smuggler's Arena is challenging.

2. I loved the challenge of VA2 and the enemies which finally were able to match our companions - here we're in agreement.

3. If it's side content, that's good, but please don't give OP gear in the dungeon that unbalances the game and makes it necessary to do the side content to progress through the main content ( Darkmoor Dungeon, for example. Where you had to do the first part of the dungeon to get your level 100 class spell. )

Otherwise, like I said, stronger challenges are acceptable, but "hardcore" in the main quest line ( like Medulla ) is not. Give average players a chance to win and complete the story line.
Again, Smugglers arena isn't hard in the first place. Anyone can easily solo it, It's just a frustrating amount of Talents the mobs have and their Powers Roster is packed with a couple powers.Which makes it a Frustrating content, Not Challenging or Unbeatable. If they do solo it without Flames and Tide, Good for them. If you do find that boring you're welcome to use the Blood flames and Tide. But i will ask as well for a hardcore content that pleases me and pleases the other players out there who are seeking something challenging to do while we wait for a Story update than staying in Avery's Court.

Second, I'm fine with the Encounter to give nothing but a badge with an effect or something cool to stitch and to wear as an Equipment; Doesn't have to be like Darkmoor and drop Overpowered gear, Like i said, I want this side instance just FOR FUN. As for Darkmoor, It's really Easy. Once again, Adapt to the cheats and seek out your choices when it comes to spells. There's dozens of guides for that with a Decent Team on so many official KI Fansites such as Duelist 101.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Matthew525011 on May 20, 2018 wrote:
You're forgetting 1 thing though: Smuggler's Arena was created, and thus balanced around, late 2014 PvE. At that time, there was no Scratch, companions had 2-3 fewer epics, moo tower had just released, relent and burst 2 weren't a thing for pirates (only companions). Sure, it might have been very difficult (unless a very specific, often gear-restrictive strategy was used) back then, but PvE has evolved significantly. As Logan said, the existence of Scratch, Flames, and Moo Boots trivialize the Arena. In addition, we had 3 years without a storyline update, giving people lots of time to farm for pieces of gear that make the arena (or any endgame farming instances) easy. With the current state of PvE, Smuggler's is no longer a "difficult" dungeon. All it takes is 1-2 players with a Blood Robe (not an unreasonable request) and the entire team with a max Old Scratch to be able to farm the dungeon without losing companions. I do think that more difficult, side quest, dungeons are needed to keep the playerbase around.
I haven't forgotten anything about that Arena, Matthew, as I helped test in test realm and bought it when it went live; I didn't have Blood's Jacket at that time ( or Moo's Boots ) heck, I barely had any Moo Tower gear.
The Arena is still challenging and fun for me because I don't use that gear intensive strategy or Scratch. Yet most teams I lead into the Arena are often successful.
So stop carping about OP gear - if you wish a challenge, discard it and use the average stuff - that's a choice, too.

Ensign
May 21, 2012
37
Willowydream on May 20, 2018 wrote:
While I can understand the attraction of a Kobiyashi Maru scenario, there is an extremely difficult thing to balance when including something like that -- is it fair to have the best gear dropped in such a dungeon, or if the best gear isn't the reward, then what would make it worthwhile to finally defeat the Undefeatable Content? A Badge? Look how easily some people were able to get the top of the Team Up badges simply by using their alt characters and walking back out the door without any more effort than porting. If there aren't enough people interested in teaming up for your unbeatable dungeon, then there will be complaints that it is useless.

I hope that someday the developers do have time to invent something like you are suggesting, but additional content for ALL pirates should be higher on the to-do list, really.

Again, The main purpose for this instance is just for fun, For the sake of the challenge, I'm fine with it even if the reward will be just a badge. They can add also stitching equipment sets such as hande's gear or gandry gear or something. Even if it gives nothing, I'd be happy that they made content just to enjoy and have fun, Meet new friends and create new strategies. Loot doesn't mean much to me in this instance if the idea becomes reality.

As for Anercorbie -- That statement itself is completely Incorrect. Your choices for weapons are based on Weapon Power stats and not the Powers/Talents they present. Haywire and Armada Weapons are +20 Weapon Power higher but no, Not as good as Champion Weapons. Champion weapons are stronger here and always win. Summer Fire, Angry Orchards and Spring Heal are greatly powerful and better compared to a First Strike 4 Weapon from Ashes of the Armada Pack. They are helpful in PvP and PvE compared to a weapon that has RNG Powers or a Power with useless Talent such as Moonlight Reaver, Cinder King's blade etc. Only good weapons from this pack are Gargoyle Shield and Kraven Blade.

Pirate101 is a powers based game -- Not Stats based game like Wizard101.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Smart Logan West on May 21, 2018 wrote:
Again, Smugglers arena isn't hard in the first place. Anyone can easily solo it, It's just a frustrating amount of Talents the mobs have and their Powers Roster is packed with a couple powers.Which makes it a Frustrating content, Not Challenging or Unbeatable. If they do solo it without Flames and Tide, Good for them. If you do find that boring you're welcome to use the Blood flames and Tide. But i will ask as well for a hardcore content that pleases me and pleases the other players out there who are seeking something challenging to do while we wait for a Story update than staying in Avery's Court.

Second, I'm fine with the Encounter to give nothing but a badge with an effect or something cool to stitch and to wear as an Equipment; Doesn't have to be like Darkmoor and drop Overpowered gear, Like i said, I want this side instance just FOR FUN. As for Darkmoor, It's really Easy. Once again, Adapt to the cheats and seek out your choices when it comes to spells. There's dozens of guides for that with a Decent Team on so many official KI Fansites such as Duelist 101.
I don't see why you want to continue to argue about this; we're in agreement about most of your points. It would be good if KI added tougher side content &having a badge with an effect as a reward is a great idea!
What I can't get over is this "hardcore" attitude to the "average" players of Pirate101 ( or Wizard101 ). Certain bosses/dungeons are NOT "easy" for certain players because most can't devote the time to farming or research into bosses, they just want to play and have fun doing it.
KI developers are doing an excellent job in balancing this game between the "average" & "hardcore" players, I hope that they don't go the Wizard route.

Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Smart Logan West on May 22, 2018 wrote:
Again, The main purpose for this instance is just for fun, For the sake of the challenge, I'm fine with it even if the reward will be just a badge. They can add also stitching equipment sets such as hande's gear or gandry gear or something. Even if it gives nothing, I'd be happy that they made content just to enjoy and have fun, Meet new friends and create new strategies. Loot doesn't mean much to me in this instance if the idea becomes reality.

As for Anercorbie -- That statement itself is completely Incorrect. Your choices for weapons are based on Weapon Power stats and not the Powers/Talents they present. Haywire and Armada Weapons are +20 Weapon Power higher but no, Not as good as Champion Weapons. Champion weapons are stronger here and always win. Summer Fire, Angry Orchards and Spring Heal are greatly powerful and better compared to a First Strike 4 Weapon from Ashes of the Armada Pack. They are helpful in PvP and PvE compared to a weapon that has RNG Powers or a Power with useless Talent such as Moonlight Reaver, Cinder King's blade etc. Only good weapons from this pack are Gargoyle Shield and Kraven Blade.

Pirate101 is a powers based game -- Not Stats based game like Wizard101.
I won't continue this "argument", you can be JUST as successful in P101 PVE with those weapons. Plus, I believe that you've got your last statement backward - P101 is a stat based game ( stats have more impact overall than powers ), and W101 is a power based game. ( where gear with powers is more important. )
And again, why the heck are we arguing about this? I agree with you about tougher side content.

First Mate
Dec 29, 2012
479
Are we asking for content harder than the Smuggler's Arena or unbeatable content? Not sure why someone would want truly unbeatable content in the game. What's the point in losing every single time you attempt it (or more accurately....forcing player's to just simply stop trying it).

To OEJ's point on KI Live, Smuggler's Arena was the hardest content in the game when it came out (but it wasn't "unbeatable"). Several weapon upgrades and Scratch mojo enhancements ultimately lowered the difficulty of the dungeon after it was out for several months.

This thread simply highlights an ongoing problem identified in multiple threads....the Dreadnaught gauntlet released almost two years ago, cannot satisfy end game players for that length of time. We are well overdue for harder (and hopefully optional) challenges.

Lieutenant
May 07, 2009
102
Smart Logan West on May 20, 2018 wrote:
1- The ways that the Players developed aren't "ways". Blood Flames and Tide are no brainer to make things quick and easier to avoid frustration.

2- Unbeatable doesn't have to remain permanently unbeatable, KI can nerf it to a certain point, But I do love Hardcore bosses and I don't give up easily to beat these and I still am looking forward to get these to work in Pirate101. That's why i hinted to "Teamwork" to beat it.

3- It's a side content like i said, Players don't have to do this 1 fight. It's your choice to whether you want to accept the challenge or just ignore it. Like Ranked PvP. It's your choice if you do want to obtain the Champion weapons and get better/Improve yourself and farm for PvP Gear and become competitive against the other champion players or just stick to PvE. If you don't want to lose companions, Simply don't do it.

4- Hardcore Content like Medulla in Wizard101 is what makes it fun. You simply adapt to the cheats, Find the possible spells you have and then you find COUNTERS for it. But wizard's issue is, They made story content a hardcore challenge for average players. I'm asking for a Side instance. Your choice, Your decision to risk.

5- Azteca and Khrysalis were easy really. I'm a very good solo player and I soloed them with my fire and Death with no absolute issues. They're good for the Average player. Not to brag but yeah.

Keep in mind that I did ask for hardcore content because I am interested in something that isn't way too easy to finish and defeat like Valencia 2 and Smugglers. These weren't hard. Just frustrating with the amount of talents they had. I soloed these too on every character before Team Up was even implemented to Valencia 2 or the Pre-nerf to Smugglers Arena. I didn't have neither Blood flames or Tide. I simply adapted to them. And i only used Level 45 gear back then. Adapting and using the tools you have in hand are what helps you to counter what the developers have in hands to defeat you.
I'm sorry, but Medulla's original boss fight was the most tedious and awful fight I've ever done in the entirety of either of these games. I do agree that harder content for side stuff is a good and something we could benefit from, but I never want to have to do something like Medulla pre-nerf in either of these games again. I don't really enjoy being in a single boss fight for 3+ hours just to progress in a world. Again, some hard side stuff that no one is forced to do does sound nice, and a good way for players who want more challenge and players who do not to compromise.