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On why P101 is not as popular as W101

AuthorMessage
Captain
Jan 17, 2012
672
In a nutshell, small demographic.

Wizard101 is intended for younger players, 8+ (I'm sure younger kids play it, but frankly, kids younger than 8 should not even be on the internet.) It is easy to play, much like Toontown was. Violence level is low.

Pirate101 is intended for a slightly older demographic 10+. More difficult to play, as the battle engine is more complex, and maintaining your companions as well as yourself is an additional chore. Violence level is moderate.

By the time kids get to the age of 12, they are far more ready for more advanced games, and by 14 are ready to start playing games adults play, and abandon W101 and P101 for greener pastures.

Yes, adults do play both P101 and W101, but they don't have near the time to play them, and usually are more frugal, finding the least expensive way to play.

So, basically, while W101 has a 4 or 6 year window to work with, P101 only has a 2 or 4 year window. Ergo, smaller audience.

Dread Pirate
May 27, 2009
2131
I don't know that I necessarily agree with the assessment that age is the deciding factor here. I think Wizard101 gets a big boost from the continuing popularity of books and films like the Harry Potter franchise, which appeals to all ages and the theme of magic has been visited again and again by other authors. Magic is magical.

Pirates are not as popular as they were when Pirates of the Caribbean movies were first in theaters, AND pirates have a much more negative connotation for a lot of people than wizards do. Other than Pirates of the Caribbean, there is not a whole lot going on with the genre. I do agree that Pirate101 is slightly more complex a game than Wizard101, but that alone doesn't turn kids away from it - on the contrary, many teens are looking for greater complexity.

Which games any kids or adults choose can vary widely. There are plenty of teens who do not like the "mature" console games, and plenty of adults who have time on their hands after retirement or due to disability.

Ensign
May 14, 2013
29
I'm 14 and started playing Pirate101 a at around 12. I Personally find the game actually has quite adult themes running through it and the combat system can get quite complex especially in PvP. I think that one thing that puts people off is the way it is marketed and its graphics. I think if KI put out a trailer aimed more at adults, it would help to boost the player base. Just because a game is grounded in gritty realism doesn't mean it's just for kids.

Petty Officer
May 17, 2011
89
While I agree that Wizard101 is less complicated than Pirate101 and probably appeals to a larger age group, there is also one huge factor that ultimately decides it all. Wizard101 has been around for a LOT longer than Pirate101, and has had a much longer time to settle with players. Most people that play Pirate101 only play because they liked Wizard101, so they thought that Kingsisle would make another really fun game (which they did).

Admiral
Jun 02, 2013
1472
Darkwolf1601 on Jul 3, 2016 wrote:
I'm 14 and started playing Pirate101 a at around 12. I Personally find the game actually has quite adult themes running through it and the combat system can get quite complex especially in PvP. I think that one thing that puts people off is the way it is marketed and its graphics. I think if KI put out a trailer aimed more at adults, it would help to boost the player base. Just because a game is grounded in gritty realism doesn't mean it's just for kids.
Being the same age, you took the words right out of my mouth
Altough I started playing this game from 11 rather than 12
Let's be honest here

Kids at even 10 know every swear word in the book, if your basing this game to 10 and over I think the transition of advertising needs to go from kiddie to adult

The combat system might be confusing but if a younger player likes the game he will eventually learn how to olay with it

Think about all the adult themes we have, Diablo cut for starters I have heard it really scares people
My best friend found Laestrygon in Aquila a bit frightening

I accidentally once went into Avernus stormgate instead of Aquila stormgate (don't know how I did this) and I will never forget how shocked I was to see the horrors of what I thought was Aquila

Kingsisle this game is in desperate need of more mature advertising

Admiral
Nov 23, 2011
1407
"Just because a game is grounded in gritty realism doesn't mean it's just for kids."

That made me laugh, Darkwolf. Thanks!

-Indigo

Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2743
As Willow alluded to, I don't really think there is a nutshell thingy going on. To me it seems more like a grab bag of nuttiness that has lead to what appears as P101 being less popular. You can look at a lot of things & see reasons as to why P101 isn't quite at full sails (or sales...).

Lack of advertising/marketing/promoting- Haven't seen anything new hyping the game (outside of P101 related "venues"), in quite awhile. A new wide-reaching commercial or promotional ad may work here. Increased commitment to making P101 "available" to more potential players would possibly do wonders. And as Max stated, showing that this game can be enjoyed just as much by a 19, or 26, or 38, or 53, or 87 year old, as it can be by a 13 year old-- yeah, that would help a bit.

Lack of regular updates and addition of new content- No need to harp on this one, as that tune has been sung a'plenty & a bit out of tune at times. But I'm hoping that the blockades have been removed & that we pirates are in store for much smoother sailing & more frequent, new adventures.

Needing some type of infusing of the two games- They're made by the same company, share common themes, play similar in some aspects & are linked together via accounts. Make wizzies excited & eager to lay down their bibbity-boppity-boos & instead pick up a clinkity-clank...or a boomity-bang...or a frazzle-foo-fizzle. Let wizards know that they can still get their "magic fix", but instead in a hoodoo-y form. Make it enticing to be on-board both games.

Less draw to the days of pirating and plundering- Another thing that Willow noted...wizards, magic & sorcery always seem to be in the mainstream spotlight. I mean who wouldn't want to pull a One-eyed Jack out of their hat? Again, highlight that Hoodoo in P101 & all of the mystical elements that can be found in the Spiral.

Less side content & activities to draw in more players & keep them there- I think P101 is getting there on this one. Stay tuned, we've got more fun stuff to come

Admiral
Jul 27, 2012
1196
Willowydream on Jul 3, 2016 wrote:
I don't know that I necessarily agree with the assessment that age is the deciding factor here. I think Wizard101 gets a big boost from the continuing popularity of books and films like the Harry Potter franchise, which appeals to all ages and the theme of magic has been visited again and again by other authors. Magic is magical.

Pirates are not as popular as they were when Pirates of the Caribbean movies were first in theaters, AND pirates have a much more negative connotation for a lot of people than wizards do. Other than Pirates of the Caribbean, there is not a whole lot going on with the genre. I do agree that Pirate101 is slightly more complex a game than Wizard101, but that alone doesn't turn kids away from it - on the contrary, many teens are looking for greater complexity.

Which games any kids or adults choose can vary widely. There are plenty of teens who do not like the "mature" console games, and plenty of adults who have time on their hands after retirement or due to disability.
For me, the historic negative connotation of pirates was an issue... because I wasn't thinking about stories like 'Captain Blood' (in Rafe Sabatini's novel, Captain Blood is an honorable hero) or 'Le Corsair' (a silly, delightful plot; but the pirate hero is definitely a good guy!) When I saw the game, however, it was love at first sight.

Pirate101 is not so much about piracy & plunder as it is about high adventure, in the tradition of the best adventure novels. This is borne out by so many players readily stating that the story is the best part of the game, even considering its beautiful graphics, clever animations, engaging combat system, sailing ships, and more. This might be shown in an advertisement like "seek out high adventure sailing the skies of the Spiral" (or something like that) to engage new potential players.

The family-friendly nature of Pirate101 is also very important. Not only to parents who might wish to play with their children, or be sure that their children are playing safely, but for many adults who do not want to see/hear swearing and bad language. There's enough of that in real life. Adults and teens can also best appreciate the historic & literary angles & jokes that give so much flavor to this game. The historic angle was a main draw for me!

I also appreciate the art style of our characters - I prefer the semi-realistic style rather to an exaggerated Manga style, and I really, really appreciate that our female characters are not, uh, (how to put this?) given anatomical features that would make Barbie dolls embarrassed, as I see in so many advertisements of other games. I really love that in both Wizard and Pirate, boys and girls are on the same playing field, in appearance and abilities, and you know, I love too the gender specific pronouns used in Pirate to describe a girl captain. It really makes you feel that yes, this young woman captain did save Mooshu, or aided a hero, etc. Pirate101 is thus also a great game for women and girls.

Community Leader
I don't think that age range has anything to do with Pirates situation.

All my friends are fairly well along the path of life, and enjoy the game, and pay dearly for the game.
My friends always seem to have crowns, frugal is not a word I would associate with the adults that I know that play Pirates.

I would tend to agree a lot with Valkoor, and Willowdream overall.

I like the idea of daily tasks, this helps keep the game interactive and more appealing when the majority of existing content has been completed.

Things I would like to see is some more advertising, and it probably would be helpful to target adult players as well it. The game needs attention, and IMO this is the broadest way to achieve it.

I think some promotional "Free" days or weekends might help draw people in to try the game. Open the game entirely for a couple days here and there. Maybe do this only for Wizard101 subscribers or something. Promote more people to try! Create a promotion similar to the old Ninja Pig promotion, but electronically (no need to mail flyers to everyone).

The more that try, the more that will "buy".

I do believe that some trust that some new content is on the way, and communication with the players is a key issue, that would bring many back, and help to promote the game to new players.

Dr Zeppers (aka Silent Sam Stern)
Piratey parodies I like to make.
I be a crazy pirate for goodness sake!
Artist & Admin of Skull Island TV
Pirate Overlord
Mar 10, 2009
6204
ValkoorTheVictorio... on Jul 5, 2016 wrote:
As Willow alluded to, I don't really think there is a nutshell thingy going on. To me it seems more like a grab bag of nuttiness that has lead to what appears as P101 being less popular. You can look at a lot of things & see reasons as to why P101 isn't quite at full sails (or sales...).

Lack of advertising/marketing/promoting- Haven't seen anything new hyping the game (outside of P101 related "venues"), in quite awhile. A new wide-reaching commercial or promotional ad may work here. Increased commitment to making P101 "available" to more potential players would possibly do wonders. And as Max stated, showing that this game can be enjoyed just as much by a 19, or 26, or 38, or 53, or 87 year old, as it can be by a 13 year old-- yeah, that would help a bit.

Lack of regular updates and addition of new content- No need to harp on this one, as that tune has been sung a'plenty & a bit out of tune at times. But I'm hoping that the blockades have been removed & that we pirates are in store for much smoother sailing & more frequent, new adventures.

Needing some type of infusing of the two games- They're made by the same company, share common themes, play similar in some aspects & are linked together via accounts. Make wizzies excited & eager to lay down their bibbity-boppity-boos & instead pick up a clinkity-clank...or a boomity-bang...or a frazzle-foo-fizzle. Let wizards know that they can still get their "magic fix", but instead in a hoodoo-y form. Make it enticing to be on-board both games.

Less draw to the days of pirating and plundering- Another thing that Willow noted...wizards, magic & sorcery always seem to be in the mainstream spotlight. I mean who wouldn't want to pull a One-eyed Jack out of their hat? Again, highlight that Hoodoo in P101 & all of the mystical elements that can be found in the Spiral.

Less side content & activities to draw in more players & keep them there- I think P101 is getting there on this one. Stay tuned, we've got more fun stuff to come
Paragraph 4 = Genius

Lieutenant
Mar 28, 2010
113
Willowydream on Jul 3, 2016 wrote:
I don't know that I necessarily agree with the assessment that age is the deciding factor here. I think Wizard101 gets a big boost from the continuing popularity of books and films like the Harry Potter franchise, which appeals to all ages and the theme of magic has been visited again and again by other authors. Magic is magical.

Pirates are not as popular as they were when Pirates of the Caribbean movies were first in theaters, AND pirates have a much more negative connotation for a lot of people than wizards do. Other than Pirates of the Caribbean, there is not a whole lot going on with the genre. I do agree that Pirate101 is slightly more complex a game than Wizard101, but that alone doesn't turn kids away from it - on the contrary, many teens are looking for greater complexity.

Which games any kids or adults choose can vary widely. There are plenty of teens who do not like the "mature" console games, and plenty of adults who have time on their hands after retirement or due to disability.
"Plenty of teens who do not like "mature" console games", I have to agree with that, I'm one of them.

Captain
Jan 17, 2012
672
Many good points here.

However, while Wizard101 has been around for 8 years compared to Pirate101's 4, Wizard101 took off much more strongly than Pirate101 did. This is obvious in the lack of updates for three years. You don't do that, unless the game is lagging in projected participation. It isn't a matter of W101 being around longer.

I do love the idea of enticing W101 players to play P101. Perhaps an occasional quest, much like The Professor, or The Lost Pages, where your wizard has to help out some pirates, plus a joint W/P membership drive? Didn't they try a reduced membership for P101 if you already had a W101 membership? They do both share crowns, so, that is a good thing.

Or, another possibility, is a short quest on W101, that flips a switch on P101 for the same account in the free area. You go to P101, and near the end of the free area, you get the special quest from W101, that, once fulfilled, gets you some cool item you can use on W101? That would get more W101 players to give P101 a try.